Post by: gary73 on March 25, 2016, 21:54:26
this doesn't seem in reality. Does anyone have the solution for hyper flashing?Many thanks Gary
Post by: Dazzler on March 25, 2016, 21:59:06
Post by: Phil №❶ on March 25, 2016, 22:02:08
Just 1 of many examples, ensure you get the correct pin orientation.
:link: electronic flasher for hyundai i30 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xelectronic+flasher+for+hyundai+i30.TRS0&_nkw=electronic+flasher+for+hyundai+i30&_sacat=0)
Post by: gary73 on March 25, 2016, 22:26:08
Ps. I think that all models are different according each country market specs
Post by: ibrokeit on March 25, 2016, 22:47:12
but the seller told me the current absorption was 21watt
Yeah - you are right. 'Current absorption' (which I take to mean how much current it will draw) for an LED being the same as incandescent bulb it is replacing isn't reality. For an automotive LED 'bulb', esp. an indicator, that would be extraordinarily bright (not to mention heat dissipation, etc.).
You will probably find the 21w was, originally, in reference to the brightness - i.e. equivalent brightness to 21w bulb - as traditionally, for incandescents at least, people equate/equated the watts with brightness. I am guessing the vendor mis-understood that, or purposely mis-represented that - it can be hard to know which sometimes, when marketing and/or answering questions about it.
Post by: gary73 on March 25, 2016, 22:57:40
Post by: Phil №❶ on March 25, 2016, 23:14:53
Here's how,
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Post by: gary73 on March 25, 2016, 23:22:37
Good Phil I'll take a look tomorrow (it's midnight here ;) )
Post by: gary73 on March 25, 2016, 23:25:58
You already have one fitted, but it is incompatible with the led's. It's the device that makes the ticking sound under the dash. Simply, pull out of its connector and plug the new one in. You will need to remove the plastic housing covering all the wiring under the dash.Got it. I'll try tomorrow to have an idea. Gary
Post by: ibrokeit on March 26, 2016, 00:49:21
Thanks ibrokeit, I think you're right. Btw I'd love to know where to put this electronic flasher unit as Phil told me
I see Phil has answered. Doing a search I see there is apparent confusion about there not being one. Personally I would find it suspicious if there wasn't... for redundancy things like brake lights, indicators, etc. are rarely under the direct sole control and/or driven by the ECU electronics, etc. only - though they often detect the lights (or actions related to their operation) and/or be able to interact with them (e.g. headlights remaining after parking to light the way to a building). I suspect people, inc. vendors/dealers, maybe assuming that 'electronic' means part of the car's computer.
And while, other than to warn that there is problem with an incandescent bulb, there isn't really any physics based reason for an electronic flasher to hyper-flash... it is easier/cheaper to produce a unit tailored to replicating behavior of an older 'analog' system (replacing it with something else if required). Of course that, inevitably leads, to people then fitting new systems and because of being mis-informed or not wanting to touch something (damaging something they don't know about) coming up, or using from similar situations, work-arounds to solve the problem when a replacement would be easier and often cheaper. Quite often the 'solutions' are posted on the internet as the 'one' answer.
Don't get me wrong, in some situations such work-arounds are very valid and useful - restoration of electronics or cars for example where you want to keep everything original as possible but have to replace something and original replacements are just not available and/or too complex to custom fabricate. Or you have to fit/replace something due to legal requirements - vintage radios with two-core mains i.e. no earth - they very rarely, if ever, would meet 'double insulated' requirements so require chassis grounding... requiring the cable to replaced, some restorers go to the trouble of sourcing cloth covered modern cable or make their own (including if possible removing the cloth covering from the original cable).
However often it can also be lack of knowledge - a slightly tangential example is many musicians will tell you 'valve amps make music sound better'... and I agree subjectively, the music sounds 'warmer' with a valve amp (or pre-amp) - objectively the 'warmness' is actually noise from the valves in the audio signal. But a lot don't understand that and go around thinking the more valves the better and/or all their sound equipment should be valve based... which isn't really needed, non-vavle electronic amps (without DSP) simply amplify near exactly (much more exactly than valves) what they receive, so as long the 'warmth' is on the input, it will be on the output.
Post by: Phil №❶ on March 26, 2016, 03:34:33
Post by: CraigB on March 26, 2016, 07:02:30
NOTE...don't buy resistor free LED's from China, guaranteed they're a scam or rubbish and wont work without inline resistors being added.
On further inspection the one's I linked look like P type instead PY, hopefully they might be able to provide PY type as well but you may have to contact them first.
Post by: gary73 on March 26, 2016, 13:11:53
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160326/a0f3cfacee3c847ceda59fda8539bfa9.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160326/8d718da73f2ee5952b0bb21610e067ec.jpg)
Post by: Asterix on March 26, 2016, 21:58:26
Replaced it on mine 6 month ago... :mrgreen:
Post by: Phil №❶ on March 26, 2016, 22:00:59
Post by: gary73 on March 26, 2016, 22:01:22
Post by: gary73 on March 26, 2016, 22:02:24
Post by: gary73 on March 26, 2016, 22:03:20
Post by: gary73 on March 26, 2016, 22:05:08
I'll try to double check but it's hard without a pic helping me. Thanks for your suggestions
Post by: Asterix on March 26, 2016, 22:52:15
Post by: gary73 on March 26, 2016, 23:31:16
Post by: ibrokeit on March 27, 2016, 16:44:02
The conventional flasher fitted to non LED cars is a resistive type, requiring the heating of a bi metal spring by the current draw of incandescent bulbs to heat it. As LEDs do not draw much current, the spring just breaks contact the quickly cools causing hyper flashing. An electronic unit has a timer circuit and is not affected by bulb current draw for it's correct operation.
Yup yup yup! Very much so.
What I wrote was on the basis of what I thought I had been said that all i30s had electronic flasher units even though they had conventional bulbs - maybe I misunderstood that. Are they electronic flasher units in i30s or conventional?
One of the things I was trying to get at was - when replacing something 'conventional' with an 'electronic' controlled equivalent, depending on the situation, the electronic unit will be designed/programmed to replicate behaviors of the 'conventional' unit... including expected behavior to a fault condition even though the behavior in the conventional unit was caused by physics and that reason/effect isn't applicable to the electronic unit (but it will detect it and behave 'appropriately').
Post by: gary73 on March 27, 2016, 17:22:47
Post by: Asterix on March 27, 2016, 18:19:20
(http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t370/Rasnik-1/Flasher%20relay_zpsifeor7uv.png) (http://s1056.photobucket.com/user/Rasnik-1/media/Flasher%20relay_zpsifeor7uv.png.html)
(http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t370/Rasnik-1/Flasher%20relay%20pos_zpsnmq6ok8i.png) (http://s1056.photobucket.com/user/Rasnik-1/media/Flasher%20relay%20pos_zpsnmq6ok8i.png.html)
Post by: gary73 on March 27, 2016, 18:23:02
Post by: Asterix on March 27, 2016, 18:57:20
Oh I see asterix you had to unscrew the white fuse panel, correct? And the black cover too
No, the only reason the white fuse panel is removed is because I didn't know how to access the relay.
I was told by the Hy dealer the relay would be placed up behind everything, but the only way I could locate it was by applying the hazard lights and then feel where the relay was.
Post by: Asterix on March 27, 2016, 19:12:14
Place yourself on your back with the head where your feet is when you drive, then reach up behind the dash and clutch pedal with your right arm, then you'll find the relay....
Post by: gary73 on March 27, 2016, 19:45:24
Of course before I buy a new one is better take a look at it (3 pins) as in the pic posted by phil
Post by: xerox on May 28, 2016, 03:29:04
Upon further research, there are posts saying that the i30 GDs have flashers are all controlled electronically and no actual relay exists. The only solution to the hyper flash problem would then be to use power dissipating resistors... though I'm not entirely sure where to put them...
Post by: Phil №❶ on May 28, 2016, 05:29:13
Post by: CraigB on May 28, 2016, 06:17:44
Good resistors come with the ability to simply clip on, no cutting or splicing.
Post by: gary73 on May 30, 2016, 18:49:14
Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk
Post by: xerox on May 31, 2016, 13:30:22
I will probably end up installing some 20W Cree LED flashers. Being more or less the same power consumption of the normal bulbs, there shouldn't be any hyperflash. Here's the ones I'm thinking of getting: :link: 2X20W BAU15S High Power PY21W Cree LED CAR Tail Reverse Brake Amber Light Yellow | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2x20W-BAU15S-High-Power-PY21W-CREE-LED-Car-Tail-Reverse-Brake-Amber-Light-Yellow-/201364996910)
Though I highly doubt theses will be genuine Cree LED diodes. Nevertheless, we'll see how it goes.
Post by: CraigB on May 31, 2016, 13:46:34
Though I highly doubt theses will be genuine Cree LED diodes. Nevertheless, we'll see how it goes.Yes I would be very sceptical of most products out of China.
Post by: gary73 on May 31, 2016, 13:49:45
Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk
Post by: gary73 on May 31, 2016, 15:04:22
Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk
Post by: CraigB on May 31, 2016, 15:23:13
Be sure that the real consumption is equal to 20w. Because once I've asked it for similar (Cree) bulbs, the seller answered it wasn't.From a reputable site I've used before :link: S25 - BA15S (1156) 20w High Powered - BA15S - S25 - BA15 Series - Indicator, Stop Tail, and Interior - LED (http://www.lighting-led-hid.com/led/led-auto-bulbs/s25-ba15-series/ba15s/s25-ba15s-1156-20w-high-powered.html)
You'll notice the bulbs are P type instead of PY though the 20W bulb equates to 3.6w, you can also see the difference in the LED's themselves when compared to the Chinese ones which don't have the reflectors around the LED chips.
Cheap Chinese knock offs :spitty:
Post by: xerox on July 09, 2016, 09:20:23
For the rear indicators, I ended up having no other solution but to install load resistors in parallel to the LED bulbs to avoid hyperflashing. I mounted them to the aluminium chassis behind the rear light assembly with heat-resistant tape (quite poorly, I might add; the surface wasn't flat and would function mediocrely as a heatsink). I'm fairly confident they're not touching any wiring and it won't melt through anything, though.
Through my testing, it's also worth noting that the front and rear indicator circuits appear to be independent, i.e. installing two load resistors for each globe at the rear (four in total at the rear to dissipate the equivalent of four halogen globes) will *not* let you install LED indicator bulbs at the front. The reason I contemplated this was because the wiring for the front headlight assembly is wired through a giant plug with all the wiring bundled together. Though it's possible, I wasn't confident enough to find the correct wire and mount a resistor somewhere neatly at the front.
For the rear brake lights, I bought some (fake Chinese) Cree LED globes similar to my indicators. I advise not to go too cheap when buying these LEDs as some of them are quite poor in distinguishing the brightness difference between the bright 'brake' light and the dimmer 'tail' light when your headlights are on. This is quite dangerous at night and will undoubtedly violate some ADR standards. Luckily, mine were comparable in performance to the stock globes. I would also expect the really cheap LEDs (or perhaps even all the ones off eBay), are poorer binned LEDs. (By binning I refer to the categorisation of high and low performing LED chips due to the imperfect processes of semiconductor manufacturing.) Also, for the record, I did not have problems with cruise control after replacing my brake lights with LEDs.
Now, the brake lights are 'dual filament', where in a halogen globe there are two actual physical filaments for the bright 'brake' light and dimmer 'tail' light. This means they are completely isolated. The LEDs I bought is one circuit and had very poor isolation between the 'brake' circuitry and the 'tail light' circuitry. When the LED tail lights were on, their voltage leaked to the brake lights. This meant that my middle brake light was being fed voltage and was lit dimly when my tail lights were on at night (they were fine in the day, because the tail lights are only on when the headlights are) (also, the middle brake light still lit brightly from the dim state when the brakes were applied).
I solved this problem by soldering a 1N5404 3A diode from Jaycar to the brake light wire so that voltage cannot be fed backward to the middle brake light. The 3A rating means the diode will still operate under spec even with normal halogen bulbs. Now, there are three wires (red, green and black) going to the brake light globe holder, you wish to cut the green one to solder the diode in. You'd naturally think the red one would be for the brake light, but it's not. I can assure you through my trial and error. (I ended up having to install diodes on both sets of wires; unsoldering the other would've been too messy). After you cut the green wire, strip the two ends and solder the diode in between. You'll also want to heatshrink or electrical tape your solder joints after you're finished.
If you encounter my same symptom of a dimly lit middle brake light after changing to LEDs, I'd retrospectively recommend you use a Schottky diode (a 1N5822 will do) instead of the one I used, as they have half the voltage drop of a regular diode, meaning your brake lights will be brighter. I note however that I couldn't tell the difference in brake light brightness between having the diode present (11V being fed to the lights) and it being not present (12V being fed to the lights).
Overall, I'm quite happy with this little project. The brightness of the LEDs I chose are more or less the same brightness as the stock halogen globes, but now my rear lights turn instantly on and off. I'm a bit bummed I don't know how to replace the front indicators with LEDs, but I've already bought more LED globes to replace my 2nd rear tail light, reversing light, licence plate light and front parking lights. I might give another update when they arrive in a month from China. I don't expect that many problems as that LED brake light, however. :lol:
Post by: Dazzler on July 09, 2016, 10:05:01
Post by: CraigB on July 09, 2016, 10:05:45
Shark Racing also have some LED turn signal/brake light bulbs, you would need to contact them about the option of some in the PY type ( offset pins ) :link: LED Bulbs - Turn Signal and Brake Lights - Load-Resistor Free - Shark Racing (http://www.sharkracing.com/led-bulbs-turn-signal-and-brake-lights-load-resistor-free/)
Post by: ibrokeit on September 13, 2016, 08:54:19
Just a note... when wanting to add reverse voltage protection it is sometimes also desirable, or necessary, to avoid having the voltage drop normally associated with a diode (though in this case it doesn't seem to be an issue). Xerox has alluded to the voltage drop problem in saying: he would retrospectively recommend a schottky diode as it has half the drop.
There is another method with almost no voltage drop... use a FET such as a MOS-FET (N.B. It does depend on the type of FET - very low 'on resistance' is needed and the FET needs to be able to handle the power drawn by the load). There are a few methods I have seen for wiring but they come back to the same idea... using the 'body diode' of the FET for reverse polarity protection when polarity is reversed and bypassing the body diode (so negating the diode voltage drop) by the FET being ON when polarity is correct.
N.B. For the purposes of explanation/comprehension and/or visualization on diagrams - it is simplest to think and talk of the 'body diode' as separate diode to the FET junction. Physically they are not separate (but are manufactured into the junction to prevent undesirable behaviors).
The 'trick' is that usually you connect a FET with it's 'body diode' against the circuit polarity... so (with correct circuit polarity) when the FET is OFF no voltage flows. However when wiring to be used for reverse polarity protection you connect the 'FET' with it's 'body diode' with the circuit polarity - in such configuration when the polarity is correct voltage flows regardless of the FET being off (when it flows through the 'body diode' with a voltage drop) or on (when the 'body diode' is bypassed and there is little/no drop). When reverse polarity is present the body diode will now be against the (incorrect) flow and stop it IF the FET itself is off (up to whatever breakdown specs the body diode and FET junction have) - of course it is rather important the FET is wired to stay OFF in this instance.
As you can tell the FET should be wired so it is ON with correct polarity and OFF with reverse. So that when the current is flowing in the desired direction (i.e. correct polarity) the FET is on and it's junction acts (in general terms) like just a piece of wire - the 'body diode' will be by-passed as it has a voltage drop the junction doesn't (effectively). When current is flowing (or rather attempting to) in reverse polarity the FET stays off and the 'body diode' blocks the flow.