i30 Owners Club
FUEL ISSUES & ECONOMY => DIESEL => Topic started by: pennypacker on February 07, 2010, 23:56:44
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Well, after getting about 3 tanks of Ultimate goodness into my SX CRDi before supplies stopped, I've been looking into various options. I tried a tank of Caltex Vortex Diesel, and it's not as good as the BP. My closest servo is a BP with Ultimate Diesel, so I'm very keen for supplies to resume.
I emailed BP via their web site enquiring about supplies, and they told me that "BP Ultimate Diesel will be unavailable until around April 2010". :'(
Boo to that, but BP were very quick in replying to my enquiry, so that's pleasing. Only a couple more months to go.... :eek:
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hi m8, did BP say why supplys stopped?
there is no Ultimate diesel in NSW i know of so i just have vortex, price of diesel has dropped a few cents here this week. but noticed the loco BP was out of Diesel.
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Over here, where I live, the "best one" is much worse of your worst :mrgreen: I keep checking other forums and keep reading: "my diesel broke down due to bad diesel quality", "webasto doesn't work, due to bad diesel quality", "the bosch pump died, due to bad diesel quality", "injectors failure due to bad diesel quality"...and so on.
A month or two ago a car (1 year old and approx 20.000 km's) broke down, the guy took it to the service, signed all the papers, wasn't really upset, because he knew he had warranty. At the service they repaired the car, he went to pick it up and gave him the bill -> 2,500 EUR (= almost AU$ 4,000). And he couldn't pick up the car till he paid the bill. So he had to.. They said it was due to the bad fuel quality and that the guaranty doesn't cover that of course.. Don't know exactly how, but later he got the money back. I think the fuel supplier didn't want the news about the fuel quality to come out. The thing is, that fuel quality at the same gas station varies a lot. Sometimes it's "OK", sometimes it's really bad. Some even say, they mix it with water or I don't know what.. But I doubt it's that bad.
When I'm checking the forums so many diesel cars have problems with injectors, turbine, bosch pump and things like that after 150,000 kms.. Especially the diesel engines, that are very "precise" and "sensitive" to fuel quality have quite some problems, even when new.
I had the chance when I was abroad, to put some "quality diesel" in my CRDI, don't know exactly the name, and boy was I into a surprise. It was great. What surprised me the most, was how much the response was better when you pushed the pedal. Not to mention the fuel economy (100 km's more with the same way of driving) and it felt like it goes better and smoother. I almost cried like a baby when I had to fill it up again here :rolleyes: :eek: :'( :D
So..don't be upset you have to wait for a BP ultimate. At least you have normal one meanwhile and even better arriving in Apr 2010 :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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hi m8, did BP say why supplys stopped?
there is no Ultimate diesel in NSW i know of so i just have vortex, price of diesel has dropped a few cents here this week. but noticed the loco BP was out of Diesel.
Here's the press release from back in December;
http://www.bp.com/genericarticle.do?categoryId=9008681&contentId=7058253
BP Australia advised its customers today that ongoing issues at its supply terminals have delayed the company’s ability to restock a number of its service stations in the Perth, Adelaide and Brisbane areas with BP Ultimate diesel.
Supplies of regular diesel are not affected.
...and here's the full response I got from BP about my enquiry;
Following a review, we have decided that we will have to modify operations at our terminals in Brisbane, Perth and Adelaide. We estimate
that these modifications will continue throughout the first quarter of 2010. This means that BP Ultimate Diesel will be unavailable until
around April 2010.
Affected Ultimate Diesel sites are already being supplied with BP's regular diesel. During this time BP's regular diesel can be safely
substituted for Ultimate Diesel.
So, no big insights into the exact nature of the problem. Would be interested to know.
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thanks, would be good to know if they have planes to sell ultimate diesel in NSW.
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Over here, where I live, the "best one" is much worse of your worst :mrgreen: I keep checking other forums and keep reading: "my diesel broke down due to bad diesel quality", "webasto doesn't work, due to bad diesel quality", "the bosch pump died, due to bad diesel quality", "injectors failure due to bad diesel quality"...and so on.
A month or two ago a car (1 year old and approx 20.000 km's) broke down, the guy took it to the service, signed all the papers, wasn't really upset, because he knew he had warranty. At the service they repaired the car, he went to pick it up and gave him the bill -> 2,500 EUR (= almost AU$ 4,000). And he couldn't pick up the car till he paid the bill. So he had to.. They said it was due to the bad fuel quality and that the guaranty doesn't cover that of course.. Don't know exactly how, but later he got the money back. I think the fuel supplier didn't want the news about the fuel quality to come out. The thing is, that fuel quality at the same gas station varies a lot. Sometimes it's "OK", sometimes it's really bad. Some even say, they mix it with water or I don't know what.. But I doubt it's that bad.
When I'm checking the forums so many diesel cars have problems with injectors, turbine, bosch pump and things like that after 150,000 kms.. Especially the diesel engines, that are very "precise" and "sensitive" to fuel quality have quite some problems, even when new.
I had the chance when I was abroad, to put some "quality diesel" in my CRDI, don't know exactly the name, and boy was I into a surprise. It was great. What surprised me the most, was how much the response was better when you pushed the pedal. Not to mention the fuel economy (100 km's more with the same way of driving) and it felt like it goes better and smoother. I almost cried like a baby when I had to fill it up again here :rolleyes: :eek: :'( :D
So..don't be upset you have to wait for a BP ultimate. At least you have normal one meanwhile and even better arriving in Apr 2010 :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
accim, does the diesel quality change summer to winter?
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Yes, in winter we have "winter diesel" and in summer - "summer diesel". The winter one should be "resistant" to freezing (to around -20°C). But sometimes it freezes sooner. I remember one year many many cars had problems with frozen diesel at around -15 or -16°C. Including my father.. 8) I didn't have a diesel than, so I drove normally :mrgreen: This year the same happened in certain area of our country..luckily not ours.
So, tell me. Is that BP Ultimate much more expensive than the "regular one" ? I mean at the end of the year, is there a big difference between the two (let's say you do 30,000 km's and your average fuel cons. is 5,5 lit/100km) - ok, you can say what's the price difference..I'll do the maths myself 8)
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So, tell me. Is that BP Ultimate much more expensive than the "regular one" ? I mean at the end of the year, is there a big difference between the two (let's say you do 30,000 km's and your average fuel cons. is 5,5 lit/100km) - ok, you can say what's the price difference..I'll do the maths myself 8)
It's exactly the same price as normal diesel, but not every servo has it. eg you might have two servos close to each other, one with Ultimate, one without. They will sell both types of diesel for (approximately) the same price.
This doesn't seem to be the case with the other premium diesel, Caltex Vortex. It always seems more expensive.
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accim, thanks, so do you think if weather was not an issue. would the diesel that is used in summer be the better fuel?
Wel unlike pp i can't say about the BP ultimate as we don't have it in my state, i would have to drive 1,000k to fill up on it :). but here in Sydney because it's a big city you get prices all over the place, one side of sydney could be as much as 10cent per Lt difference in the price of the same fuel. but on Average BP diesel is about the most expencive although i know a few BP outlets sell at good prices. but Caltex is also high priced, Mobile seems to be the cheapest diesel. caltex Vortex is about same price as the top priced BP diesel outlets and i even see normal Caltex diesel (not the cut price supermarket ) selling for same price as the vortex. has been no gain for me in economy but the motor runs beautifull and smooth so has to be doing something.
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Well, it's April and still no BP Ultimate, so I thought I'd have a look at the BP web site. There's an update that supplies are expected to resume in May now;
We expect that we will resume normal supply of our premium diesel in May.
http://www.bp.com/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9031863&contentId=7058256
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Over here, where I live, the "best one" is much worse of your worst :mrgreen: I keep checking other forums and keep reading: "my diesel broke down due to bad diesel quality", "webasto doesn't work, due to bad diesel quality", "the bosch pump died, due to bad diesel quality", "injectors failure due to bad diesel quality"...and so on.
A month or two ago a car (1 year old and approx 20.000 km's) broke down, the guy took it to the service, signed all the papers, wasn't really upset, because he knew he had warranty. At the service they repaired the car, he went to pick it up and gave him the bill -> 2,500 EUR (= almost AU$ 4,000). And he couldn't pick up the car till he paid the bill. So he had to.. They said it was due to the bad fuel quality and that the guaranty doesn't cover that of course.. Don't know exactly how, but later he got the money back. I think the fuel supplier didn't want the news about the fuel quality to come out. The thing is, that fuel quality at the same gas station varies a lot. Sometimes it's "OK", sometimes it's really bad. Some even say, they mix it with water or I don't know what.. But I doubt it's that bad.
When I'm checking the forums so many diesel cars have problems with injectors, turbine, bosch pump and things like that after 150,000 kms.. Especially the diesel engines, that are very "precise" and "sensitive" to fuel quality have quite some problems, even when new.
I had the chance when I was abroad, to put some "quality diesel" in my CRDI, don't know exactly the name, and boy was I into a surprise. It was great. What surprised me the most, was how much the response was better when you pushed the pedal. Not to mention the fuel economy (100 km's more with the same way of driving) and it felt like it goes better and smoother. I almost cried like a baby when I had to fill it up again here :rolleyes: :eek: :'( :D
So..don't be upset you have to wait for a BP ultimate. At least you have normal one meanwhile and even better arriving in Apr 2010 :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
IMHO it is mostly not the quality of the fuel, but the condition of the tanks it is kept in at the service station.
On an old station, there may be incredible amounts of nondescript sludge at the bottom of the tank. If you are unlucky, and the tank is almost empty before the next delivery, you may fill up your car with a fuel that might cause problems even to a heavy oil burning ship diesel...
My advise is, if the fuel quality is suspect in your country, pick the stations most recently erected, they probably have the cleanest tanks with minimum of sludge in them. Also picking a station that belongs to an established chain gives some quality assurance, they probably are not selling jet engine fuel pilfered from a nearby airforce base :) Diesels BTW run great on Jet A1, except the jet engine fuel lacks sufficient lubricity and will eventually destroy the high pressure pump.
Mixing water to fuel, beside of being downright criminal, does not sound very intelligent even to try, since diesel does not mix with water. The water will mostly separate to the bottom of the service station tank. Even if the fuel has some water, the water trap in the fuel filter takes care of that.
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Please don't let the topic drift :rolleyes: thanks
Topic: BP Ultimate Supplies
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OK, it looks like (a modified version of) BP Ultimate Diesel should be flowing again soon!
http://www.bp.com/genericarticle.do?categoryId=9008681&contentId=7062225
A mysterious, non-committal press release though. I wonder what the "changes to the manufacturing process" involved and what the impact on the fuel is? BP claim it still offers "all the benefits".
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i work for BP ill ask around what has happened... mabey someone with connections to the refinery side of the road knows, i work in thh bitumen plant which in on the other side of the road to the refinery in brisbane but still on BP land!
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Why not in Victoria ? , do we have to have a BP refinery in Vic to get it ?
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no there are 2 bp refineries in australia... Pinkenba QLD and Kwinana WA! what they cant supply here is imported from overseas.
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i work for BP ill ask around what has happened...
That would be great. More curious than anything...
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i did hear a rumor at work, BUT i dont think its true... so ill try and find out what happened
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to much bio in the blend ? :rolleyes:
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to much bio in the blend ? :rolleyes:
AFAIK, BP doesn't sell any biodiesel.
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BP Ultimate Diesel has popped up everywhere in Adelaide in the last few weeks. I have it earmarked for my next fill.
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I wish they would hurry up and bring it to Victoria :(
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hrmm i tried to find out what the problem was with ultimate... aparently the additive they were using was too dangerous LOL
boss reckons it had a too low flash point and was not able to be stored properly, and not wanting a repeat of the texas oil refinery disaster they ceased stocking of it... but anyway today we filled up the company ute, at BP obviously and guess what ITS BACK!!
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Any word of a release in NSW?
I've tried emailing BP PR and the best I can get is 'A release date in NSW is yet to be confirmed' i.e. 'we want to be as vague as possible in the endeavour of holding out hope for NSW (private) diesel fuel users'.............
I also asked about any Bio diesel content and their response was 'refer to attached sheet' which made no reference what so ever as to whether a bio diesel blend is or isn't contained within the fuel.............which isn't a good enough reason for me to believe that it ISN'T contained...........
Regards
Daniel
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... it had a too low flash point and was not able to be stored properly...
And
BP Ultimate Diesel has popped up everywhere in Adelaide in the last few weeks
Combined with the BP oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, it all makes me say "Hmmm... Coincidence?" :D
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hrmm i tried to find out what the problem was with ultimate... aparently the additive they were using was too dangerous LOL
boss reckons it had a too low flash point and was not able to be stored properly, and not wanting a repeat of the texas oil refinery disaster they ceased stocking of it... but anyway today we filled up the company ute, at BP obviously and guess what ITS BACK!!
Great! Thanks for the update. Glad it's back, although haven't needed to fill up since the re-release.
Damn my fuel economy!!! /Shakes fist at CRDi.
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For all those in NSW here's what I got from BP.
'The plan is to rollout the BP Ultimate Diesel out in NSW early next year.
NSW has mandated the use of bio diesel across the state therefore our diesel will meet the current diesel fuel standards. The specifics have not yet been advised.'
Regards
Daniel
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good to hear that they plan to roll it out for you guys!!!
Damn my fuel economy!!! /Shakes fist at CRDi.
LOL *joins you in shaking fist*
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that is indeed good news, but do you think it will just be from the Caltex refinery like BP, MOBILE & Caltex is now in NSW that is? Shell has there own refinery here too but BP & Mobil use the Caltex refinery has always been that way thats with petrol anyway. maybe diesel is produced else were?
i notice Caltex Vortex Premium diesel seems to be poping up everywhere now in Sydney that is. i think it could be to do with requirement of common rail diesels as was told by a guy, but i don't know how acurate his info is, he said the only diesel that meets the euro standards was BP now i think caltex vortex does too, i knew mobil were being a bit slack changing to low solphire diesel but they got around it to meet gov requirements few years back. but just what i was told could be wrong . but i'm not wrong on the info that a lot more Caltex Vortex premium diesel in sydney now, just it's not cheap, but if you want good fuel and you say you want it, expect to pay for it. i will keep useing vortex till i see BP ultimate diesel on tap here. then try that see what i feel.
cheers
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Since it's only been mentioned in passing:
*insert cheesy joke about BP turning the Gulf of Mexico in to a Biodiesel refinery in an attempt to achieve automotive alchemy by running a car on seawater. Impact of associated contaminants in this exciting new fuel such as dead fish and broken dreams still to be assessed.*
:wink:
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Ok, i put 56l of ultimate in today. I have previously only used Vortex. I will post my findings. Initial thoughts after 50kms is that performance is better. Maybe it was my imagination lol.
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thanks m8, wish we had the choice here in NSW. what do they charge for the ultimate diesel? like here a Mobil charge $1.24.9 per L , & a Caltex near by charge $1.34.9 for Vortex Premium Diesel
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thanks m8, wish we had the choice here in NSW. what do they charge for the ultimate diesel? like here a Mobil charge $1.24.9 per L , & a Caltex near by charge $1.34.9 for Vortex Premium Diesel
I can get the Vortex for 128.9 and with 4 cent shop a docket it's pretty good value at 124.9. My local Woolworths Caltex Servo sells the Vortex.
The BP Ultimate is 132.9 with no discount. So the Ultimate will have to be brilliant to warrant the extra $.
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See today that BP share have taken a hit on the stock market due to the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico.
So...................... will this lead to a hike in price world wide
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I think it might, longer-term. It probably depends on whether the regulations about drilling for oil change. Doesn't seem to be so far though.
There are constantly oil spills all over the world but because this one is off a major industrialised country it's getting a lot of attention. I suppose that might be a good thing if it helps make people more aware of what's happening out there - be a bit irritating if you live in Nigeria or something and nobody ever says or does anything about the oil spills in your country...
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Adds a whole new connotation to the saying "the squeaky wheel gets the oil" :wink:
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I just can't believe the amount of oil which is spilling out.
Does anyone know whether they can process the oil they recover from the sea?
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Adds a whole new connotation to the saying "the squeaky wheel gets the oil" :wink:
Not wrong Dazz, the squeakiest wheel is copping a WHOLE lot of oil right now...Does anyone know whether they can process the oil they recover from the sea?
I was reading the BP site the other day and they said they were going to donate the proceeds of selling oil they recover from the sea, so I guess they probably will be able to sell at least some of it. Don't know what the percentage is that they can recover... Or if you get fuel system corrosion from all the seawater in your fuel. :wink::lol:
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Ok, i put 56l of ultimate in today. I have previously only used Vortex. I will post my findings. Initial thoughts after 50kms is that performance is better. Maybe it was my imagination lol.
Well afer 400kms i would have to say i am sure the car is more responsive using this fuel. My consumption is on 5.4/100kms and on target for just over 1000kms. My ave speed is only 35kph so economy is pretty good for that low speed ave.
I think though, i probably will stick to the Vortex next time, unless the prices are a bit closer.
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thanks m8, wish we had the choice here in NSW. what do they charge for the ultimate diesel? like here a Mobil charge $1.24.9 per L , & a Caltex near by charge $1.34.9 for Vortex Premium Diesel
I can get the Vortex for 128.9 and with 4 cent shop a docket it's pretty good value at 124.9. My local Woolworths Caltex Servo sells the Vortex.
The BP Ultimate is 132.9 with no discount. So the Ultimate will have to be brilliant to warrant the extra $.
I don,t buy vortex diesel from Woolys, the vortex i get is from Caltex that don't have shopping docket discounts. i think they are different fuels. i know the petrol is, my petrol car would not run as well on woolys fuel carboned up idle sensor, so i stopped useing that supermarkets fuel.
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Ok, i put 56l of ultimate in today. I have previously only used Vortex. I will post my findings. Initial thoughts after 50kms is that performance is better. Maybe it was my imagination lol.
Well afer 400kms i would have to say i am sure the car is more responsive using this fuel. My consumption is on 5.4/100kms and on target for just over 1000kms. My ave speed is only 35kph so economy is pretty good for that low speed ave.
I think though, i probably will stick to the Vortex next time, unless the prices are a bit closer.
good to know, thanks m8, do they say they have a small percentage of bio in the wools vortex up there? people have said some vortex diesel has some bio added, but never came across that myself in sydney yet.
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thanks m8, wish we had the choice here in NSW. what do they charge for the ultimate diesel? like here a Mobil charge $1.24.9 per L , & a Caltex near by charge $1.34.9 for Vortex Premium Diesel
I can get the Vortex for 128.9 and with 4 cent shop a docket it's pretty good value at 124.9. My local Woolworths Caltex Servo sells the Vortex.
The BP Ultimate is 132.9 with no discount. So the Ultimate will have to be brilliant to warrant the extra $.
I don,t buy vortex diesel from Woolys, the vortex i get is from Caltex that don't have shopping docket discounts. i think they are different fuels. i know the petrol is, my petrol car would not run as well on woolys fuel carboned up idle sensor, so i stopped useing that supermarkets fuel.
Are you sure they are different? Our Caltex Stations over here are called Woolworths Caltex. They have banners out the front saying "we sell Vortex premium diesel
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Not 100% sure on the diesel, but here NSW the wooly's caltex look the same as wooly's caltex in other states . next time ask if there is bio in there diesel. Daniel said he saw "could contain up to 2% bio " on the Caltex Vortex pumps in Newcastle. but i have never seen that at the servo's i go to, still check let me know.
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Hey Lakes
The Woolies Caltex at Lambton, Dedicated Caltex at Swansea and The twin Servos on the F3 all have 'May contain upto 2% bio diesel'
Dedicated Caltex at Rutherford and Richmond do not.
I can't remember but the one at Merrylands may, haven't been there in sometime.
I can't think of any other stations that I have filled up at, but I've definitely gone past plenty of stations which have Vortex Diesel banners and signs up, who knows which ones do or don't.
A email that I received from Caltex said that ALL Vortex Diesel contained upto 2% bio diesel. Just to further confuse things............
Plus the email I previously posted stated that the Ultimate would have Bio in it as it's been mandated by the Guvmint.
Regards
Daniel
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Thanks Daniel, when you first told me about the bio in Vortex, i noticed prices on Vortex Diesel at that time had dropped to close to the same as other diesel, now its a lot more expencive and a lot more of it around. my motor runs stronger on it so i'll keep useing it. but we just have to hope, as some service station's you would not know what they drop in for a profit. still i try to go to the same servo every fill up now. and i keep every docket. if you do that. you have more amo if you get bad fuel. a stack of fuel purchase dockets from same outlet for the past 6 months. they can,t question that.
cheers
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Just clocked up the 1000kms on this tank and the DTE is flashing at me. The local BP has ultimate for 127.9 so i'll be filling again tomorrow. Pretty impressed with the way the car accelerates on BP Ultimate.
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ultimate diesel for 127.9?? jebus thats cheap!! regular diesel has been going for 129.9-132.9 around here :(
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I think i know why it was so cheap. After 50 kms my trip computer is showing 7.1l/100kms. I've never seen numbers like that.How could the same fuel be so different in this tank?
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my family and friends wont go any where near a bp because of their oil spill clean up efforts,what a joke.!! and before they are allowed to start drilling they must explain in detail if they have a spill how it will be stopped and cleaned up.its obvious they have no experience or knowledge in such a spill at all.and now people handling the oil in the clean up are falling ill,but that's another area for bp to go into denial. :mad: :mad: [ I've gone off topic, sorry.]
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I think i know why it was so cheap. After 50 kms my trip computer is showing 7.1l/100kms. I've never seen numbers like that.How could the same fuel be so different in this tank?
Ok it seems to have sorted itself out. 300 kms now and sitting on 5.2.
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My last tank was Vortex and it proved to be the worst fuel economy i have experienced. Back on BP Ultimate, and straight away better economy and smoother acceleration. And it's down to $124.9 at Mawson Lakes.
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wow thats a good price for diesel!!!