Tha Original i30 Owners Club
GENERAL STUFF => GENERAL DISCUSSIONS => Random Chit Chat => Topic started by: johnee on April 04, 2010, 23:48:40
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Thought I'd get some thoughts on the diesel v petrol decision. I currently drive around 20,000 km per year which is about half on the freeway and other main roads with speed limits of around 70 km/h or so. Other than the daily commute to work and a small amount of running around on the weekends i don't take my current runabout on extended highway trips etc.
Have test driven a diesel auto and it was nice, i am weighing up the extra expense in purchase price and servicing against the lower fuel economy and more refined drive.
From the low point in weekly fuel prices ie petrol and diesel prices per litre it would take 4-5 years for me to be in front with the diesel purchase. In Melbourne currently petrol prices are around the same or a couple of cents higher at the low point in the discounting cycle. Diesel doesn't have the weekly up and down price changes that petrol has. Any thoughts appreciated. :)
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Welcome johnee. if you do some searching on here you will find there are some interesting debates on here from time to time about that very subject...
Here is my unbiased opinion...I would go the Diesel for the following reasons (preferably a manual as it is cheaper and much more fuel efficient than the CRDi Auto)
(a) The difference with the manual would not take 4-5 years to recoup with the mileage you are doing I estimate more like 3 years plus...
(b) According to the various dealer guides (eg Redbook) you would recoup at least half the extra cost of the diesel in resale/ trade-in allowance ..
(c) The Petrol i30 is an excellent drive (by all accounts) the diesel is sensational (particularly in the manual) feels like a small 6 cyl with the economy of a 3 Cyl..
(d) The service costs between the two versions is not that pronounced remembering amongst other things that you never have to buy spark plugs for the diesel..
I'm sure there are other reasons which escape me at the moment... :lol:
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and coming from a twin petrol owner,[meaning myself] well put dazz. :razz:
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My suggestion would have been that if you can't afford the diesel don't test drive one but i see you already have. My mistake was to drive the diesel and then i had to have one. The petrol is a sensational car and great value for money. The diesel is, in my opinion worth the extra $ for the reasons mentioned by Dazzler.Either way you will end up with a great car.
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Here's my take. The diesel engine has some character to it and makes for a more adventurous drive.
Forget the economics of it, it's the drive that's important, and anyway, you really get the diesel for free when you consider the price compared to the alternative cars that were on your short list (whatever they were :D ).
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i wanted to test drive a diesel when i first looked at the i30s but they didnt have one to test drive.i more than likely would have bought a crdi if the car was available to test drive,but its to late now. :rolleyes:
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I have a diesel also, it was bought partly because of the fuel economy, but mostly because it goes quite well as Dazz mentioned and without a struggle.. I guess it comes down to what you prefer.. The petrol engines go also quite well, but if you want more "dynamical" ride (or fully loaded, towing..) you'll have to drive them in higher rev's - of course, you can't compare 2.0 petrol with 1.6 diesel with 90-ps, nor 2.0 diesel with 1.4 petrol :wink: But if you compare 2.0 petrol with 2.0 diesel, you will see, or have a feeling, the diesel goes better, even though they have almost the same "results" (0-100 acceleration and top speed) - just because of the torque. It's similar with 1.6 petrol/diesel.
I like petrol engines, don't get me wrong, especially turbo-charged petrol engines, but for me, at this moment, the diesel is the right choice. But it's not the right choice for everyone.. Some people just don't like diesels.. Also, it's not always the cheapest choice, even on long term.. The diesel engines, if not handled properly, could cause you more problems (cost) than petrol ones (non turbo).. Broken turbo or similar things at 150,000 kms isn't the best news for your wallet. That shouldn't happen if you drive normally, but if you drive like my friends brother, it probably will (he lives only 1 km away from the highway, and he doesn't accelerate gradually, but goes 160-180 km/h in few seconds after entering the highway, and drives like that for 20 min's - he's usually late for work, but even if he's not, it's the same :D )
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I have only ever driven the petrol and can confirm what the others say in this forum.... it's a dream to drive, sensational...!!!!!!!!!!!!
I cannot offer an opinion on the diesel but the guys around this neighbourhood are very knowledgeable and give good help and advice.
Having read this thread, I am kinda glad I didn't test drive the diesel :D :D :D :D :D
A
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Thanks for your reply guys, most responses were what i expected. The extra outlay for the diesel will be no problem when the time comes. I have been trying to investigate the replaceable parts side of things for servicing the diesel. IE fuel filter and oil filter are the mains parts which seem to only be available at Hyundai. Hopefully Ryco etc. will bring their own filters onto the market. For the moment it looks like we have to pay full price for these items.
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Hi again Johnee,
I'm just going with services every 15,000 (about 6 monthly in my case) The genuine Oil filter is about A$20 the fuel filter seems to vary a bit dealer to dealer (My first change is due shortly at the 60,000 service) If my local dealer still wants around A$130 I will see if I can get it from the big Melbourne dealer cheaper .. I'm sure someone got theirs for under A$100 ..
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My suggestion would have been that if you can't afford the diesel don't test drive one
You should send that to the readers digest.
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Thanks for your reply guys, most responses were what i expected. The extra outlay for the diesel will be no problem when the time comes. I have been trying to investigate the replaceable parts side of things for servicing the diesel. IE fuel filter and oil filter are the mains parts which seem to only be available at Hyundai. Hopefully Ryco etc. will bring their own filters onto the market. For the moment it looks like we have to pay full price for these items.
Both oil and fuel filter are bog standard general parts, and need replacement only once in 20K kilometers, the fuel filter actually not even that often.
Of course diesel culture may be somewhat lagging Europe, whre these parts are VERY common.
But even if you use "genuine" Hyundai parts (which they are not, just oem'd from somewhere...) the cost of those parts is insignificant in comparison to other costs of owning a car.
You should also remember that the diesel does not need timing belt replacement as it has chain timing drive (this may be true for petrol too nowadays).
But just test drive the diesel, and there is no return, whatever the financial reasoning may be :)
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Hi there
I have only ever driven the petrol, but have to admit that I would seriously consider the diesel in the future.
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As my final instalment in this discussion... I had not had much experience with Diesel (except in trucks) until I got my i30... From now on I won't buy anything else unless Hybrid or some other option gets a lot better and a lot cheaper...and several others on here have said much the same thing (haven't you Shambles.. :lol:)
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I'm sure there are other reasons which escape me at the moment... :lol:
Yes. You have one
Better ride
Smoother take off
Less noise
No need to press gas pedal in heavy traffic as it will take off and increase speed
Has a sticker inside the fuel flap to say Diesel Only
Cheaper on service cost
No cam belt to change
Goes like $%^$%^$ off a shoval, so to say
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I have a 2.0L petrol, and it goes like a dream. It isn't a flat ride, has plenty of go, and is an amazing car.
I don't know how the diesel can simply be a "better drive" as they are the same car, minus the motor. The petrol is whisper quiet, given if you don't rev to 5000rpm. The car is amazing in traffic which I drive in a few hours a day, much easier than any other car (even automatics) I have driven.
Don't be swayed by these diesel fan-boys, the petrol model is amazing :lol:
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The 2.0 petrol version is not available in the UK. I presume it was at some time.
Part of the joy of the CRDi is that most of the torque is available from 1500rpm. It's possible to drive quite quickly whilst changing up at only say 2200rpm through each gear. In top gear the speed limit here is reached at about 2200rpm.
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The gearing in the 1.6 petrol requires that you "work" the engine, despite being VVT, you really feel the second cam coming in at about 3,500rpm which whisks her along better, below that and you can sometimes feel that acceleration is taking a bit too long. The engine therefore falls a little short on the power/consumption battle, given that you need to be pushing it in order to get going sometimes, whilst watching your "econogauge" falling dramatically. The flip side is that it is perfectly happy tootling about town at 30mph in 5th gear
From the comments on here and indeed reviews in the motoring press, the 1.6CRDi allows you to get frugal consumption with a much more "usable" rev range.
The first time I was on a 30 deg. mountain climb I was surprised when I put it into second gear and it started loosing speed, I had to ensure that revs were about 4500 in 1st before going into 2nd, again I believe from the comments on here that the CRDi just does it better.
Don't take this as a negative of the petrol, I still love the car to bits, it would just appear that the diesel is possibly a more lazy drive than the petrol in that you the driver don't have to do so much.
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The flip side is that it is perfectly happy tootling about town at 30mph in 5th gear
The Diesel is not perfect (close) for example you can't do what Brian can do in his petrol.. anything much under 1500rpm in 4th or 5th in the diesel and there can be a disconcerting shudder.. Just have to be aware of this and change down earlier than that..(it does improve with age)
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Also if you let the revs drop too low (less than about 900rpm) the anti-stall programming will cause the car to slightly accelerate on it's own. This can be somewhat disconcerting in a high gear when you are going slow-ish in traffic until you get used to it.
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Er..... Diesel. No need to torque any futher. :lol:
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Hi
My friend is driving Opel Astra 1.7cdti with 100bhp. Comparing to my petrol 1.4dohc with 109bhp...totally different stuff.
First of all, almost every modern diesel engine has turbo. With nothing to say more, turbo is very important when it comes to performances.
But somehow my heart beats some oder melody when I see left needle showing like 5000 or 6000 rpm... :-)
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Here's my take...
If you can afford the extra outlay up front... DIESEL, DIESEL, DIESEL.
Don't do any maths, don't think about it, just go buy one.
The numbers will look after themselves both in economy and at resale.
If you can't afford it up front... "settle" for a petrol.
Our diesel is nearly a year old now and I STILL smirk when I feel the big push in the back at every gear change.
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I'm on the brink of buying an i30, the preference was the CRDi until I discovered a few days ago something that Hyundai don't like to tell at least here in NZ and I also beleive in Australia
The CRDi does not have a diesel particulate filter in NZ and Aust. [I see quite a few threads on this] I was gobsmacked when I heard that Hyundai NZ and Aust choose not to order it with it. I beleive the record given in Oz was because they didn't need to meet any emission standards requiring it.
Shame on Hyundai for not having it in NZ and Aust. Clearly they don't really care about the environment [I'm no tree hugger] or more importantly peoples health. Diesel Particulates are know carcinogens.
The two other cars we are considering both have diesel particulate filters and in one case already meets the Euro5 emission standard
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I understand what you are saying, but you must know, many people (cars) have problems with those filters, the proper oil cost more (you MUST use C3 oil) and so on. I've been reading some other forums, where people are actually looking for cars that don't have that filter. Not just Hyundai cars. They do that because they tend to be "sensitive" and might cause quite some failures. I've also read, that short trips and low speeds aren't good for those filters. You should drive quite often above 140 kph so the filter would clean itself better than it usually does etc. Don't get me wrong, I think that filter is a great thing, but as every thing, it has some downsides.
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I'm on the brink of buying an i30, the preference was the CRDi until I discovered a few days ago something that Hyundai don't like to tell at least here in NZ and I also beleive in Australia
The CRDi does not have a diesel particulate filter in NZ and Aust.
I'm sure it won't influence you nor is any real indicator of pollution at the level you are concerned with but the diesels without this final filter do not blow any visible smoke that would suggest truck-like pollution.
I'd be interested to see any data you might have that supports your concern WRT having or not having a DPF. I don't mean this to sound like a challenge... it's just that I've wondered about this point myself.
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A few points here. I'm not an expert on this, but read a lot about it becuase I was concerned to find I had ordered a car without a DPF (which is what I wanted at the time) and found I was getting one with a DPF.
The existing U engine used in europe already had a relatively clean motor, and meets Euro4 emission standards, and has a Diesel CAT (Hyundai call this a CPF).
Austrailian models do not yet have a DPF its true. I'm not sure if anyone proved if they have a diesel CAT. There are several old threads that discuss the issue, with, as I recall, some conflicting reports from owners. Of course if it does have a CAT then ACEA-C4 oil should be used too.
The U2 which has the CPF and the DPF has only been available in Europe since August. One presumes it will come to the other markets sometime, as the drivetrain on this model is cheaper and quicker to manufacture.
The DPF that Hyundai picked for the i30 (the same model also now being used in recent Ford Focus I think) uses a new generation aluminium titanate substrate, which does not need regeneration cycles and should not clog up like some previous DPF implementations, and has high ash loading capability At least thats what the manufacturers of the unit say. I posted the details in a thread soemwhere a few months ago. Hyundai just pipped Ford to be the early adopter of this technology I think.
The i30 DPF does not need any special fuel added for the DPF (like some peugeots) and it doesn't have a regeneration light to tell there is some special fuel-hungry regeneration going on, as presumably this never happens when driving. I believe however there is a menu option in the HY diagnostics for some kind of regeneration to be started, if needed at service. I'm not sure about this as I've not seen it with my own eyes.
HY uk site did allow you to compare particulate emissions of the versions with and without the DPF (compare 5spd/6spd) they may have removed the former's set of data now though, I haven't looked recently.
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Pip, Lorian and accim
Thank you for your replies, it is most helpful to hear others views :)
I have asked Hyundai NZ a] if they can source an i30 with DPF, b] whether there is a CAT /CDF, see Lorians reply] c] whether they intend to bring in the i30 CRDi soon similar to the UK spec
I'd be interested to see any data you might have that supports your concern WRT having or not having a DPF. I don't mean this to sound like a challenge... it's just that I've wondered about this point myself.
Yesterday I stuck my finger up the exhaust of two new CRDi's and removed my finger covered in black soot. It is this carcinoginic material which the DPF prevents. I wouldn't stick it in my mouth as it is known to cause numerous dieases including cancer so why should I be happy to drive with whilsting blowing out ?
As it stands the i30 in NZ and Oz will not meet Euro5 which I beleive does measure diesel particulate matter. It will be interesting to see what Hyundai say when they get back to me
Of note the i30 CRDi can only take 5% biodiesel [B5] in warranty unlike some other European vehicles which can take 20%, that said it was also good to hear the petrol i30 can take 10% bioethanol [E10] under warrenty so in some respects is greener than the CRDi
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Biodesel is not something of great interest to many UK motorists due to availability. The nearest place I could purchase it appears to be a 1 hour round trip from my home. There is a cleaner diesel available readily though (shell V.power) that is manufactured from gas rather than oil and that is supposed to produce lower levels of particulates. It has a 10% or so price premium however.
When you stuck your finger up the exhaust of those cars, keep in mind while they are shunted around at the docks and dealers the CAT (if fitted) won't have had time to heat up so you would expect to find deposits until they are run properly.
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It's hardly not a green car.
http://www.autoweb.com.au/cms/A_109550/title_Hyundai-i30-CRDi-Driving-Aussies-Into-A-Greener-Future/newsarticle.html
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Welcome johnee. if you do some searching on here you will find there are some interesting debates on here from time to time about that very subject...
Here is my unbiased opinion...
To add to the thread, here is my biased opinion.
Buy the diesel.
This is my first diesel small car and I would only buy diesel from now on. Character, torque, driveability, economy, etc.
You won't regret it.
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..Yesterday I stuck my finger up the exhaust of two new CRDi's and removed my finger covered in black soot. It is this carcinoginic material which the DPF prevents...
Again, anything to support this supposition? I certainly am on your side WRT the green stance but presumably along with many others will need something more than "black soot" as scientific proof of a serious problem.
I understand I could "google" all my answers but I think it is incumbent on you to put your point, if I understand it correctly, that Hyundai are selling "dirty" cars to us.
How dirty is dirty, and is the last residue that important when considering all the other forms of pollution? Again, I'm putting these as questions more than argument. I have no particular stance other than a leaning towards where you are.
And without doubt you will not get a car with a DPF until Hyundai decide to offer it in your market.
And along with Lorian's thoughts, I personally was happy to get a non-DPF diesel which allows me to use a non low-SAPS oil which from my reading is more likely to be a better long term lubricant. My engine is expected to last me 250,000Km. How long I can get my preferred oil is another question because all (car and oil) manufacturers will eventually be forced to conform to the green directive. :rolleyes:
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Pip & others
Diesel Particulate matter is known to cause Health issues, there is little doubt if any there. A brief overview can be found here with further external links http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_particulate_matter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_particulate_matter) and also here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_exhaust_air_contaminants (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_exhaust_air_contaminants) which lists the carcinogens with supporting external links. I"m sure you will agree it is more ideal to have a DPF
The issue I have is, that Hyundai NZ and Aust chose not to have the DPF fitted because they did not require too as the vehicle already meet Euro4 standards. The CRDi without the DPF in NZ and Aust will not meet Euro5 [which is why it has to be fitted in Europe]. The reason that Euro5 has increased the threshold on DPMs is because of the health and enviromental issue.
Also note some car manufactuers have choosen to fit a DPF since 2000 e.g. Peugeot even though they did not have too. Two alternative vehicles on our list do have a DPF.
Don't get me wrong the i30 CRDi was our preference vehicle for lots of really good reasons you all know about, but we are revaluating that in light of the absence of a DPF or alternative.
That said I am still waiting on some answers from Hyundai NZ. My issue is not with Hyundai themselves it is with the choices that Hyundai NZ and Aust made
FYI I own a petrol Hyundai [Lantra] now
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Good on you for your following through on your principles. Hyundai were also of course; their primary principle is to maximise profits. A DPF is I understand a significant cost item.
I will look at your links, thankyou.
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I see things from a similar perspective to Pip.. I believe they haven't included the DPF when they didn't have to, to keep the i30 competetively priced. Until recently that was the best way to move a Hyundai (now they are starting to sell on their merits)
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The reason that Euro5 has increased the threshold on DPMs is because of the health and enviromental issue.
I don't this matters at the moment with the impending fall of ash from the Icelandic volcano :lol: :twisted: :evil:
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Hi I am not an expert but I often wonder how much or little my car pollutes, I belive there must be a connection how far you drive per liter/the cars economi and its pollution.
I am driving a cdri 1,6 and have recently added a powerchiphe, On the motorway here in Denmark i went for a 300 km trip this weekend, 4 persons in the car. avarege speed 120 km.h. consum. 3,6 ltr. pr. 100 km thats ecual with 27,7 km pr.ltr.
Avarage use in town / short trips ca. 4.5 to 4.8 ltr.pr 100 km.
Regards....a happy Icelandic dieseldriver in Danmark :)
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Good on you for your following through on your principles. Hyundai were also of course; their primary principle is to maximise profits. A DPF is I understand a significant cost item.
I will look at your links, thankyou.
I see things from a similar perspective to Pip.. I believe they haven't included the DPF when they didn't have to, to keep the i30 competetively priced. Until recently that was the best way to move a Hyundai (now they are starting to sell on their merits)
Pip and Dazzler. Thank you for your replies. FYI in NZ all i30 models come with all safety features including Stability Control but there is no regulation to require the later. Hyundai NZ could make more profit by removing this or making it optional as in Aust but chose not to something I applaud them for. Furthmore as explained earlier Peugeot and Citroen include DPF in all vehicles in NZ and I beleive also VW. Therefore I don't readily buy the profit issue to explain no DPF in the i30 CRDi in NZ. Surely this is also a manuafacturing advantage in standardising componets ?
I suspect either an availbility issue or they [Hyundai NZ] felt there was [unlike Safety features] no demand or public expectation for a DPF which imho is very short sighted of Hyundai NZ and Aust esp. in NZ since we like to think we have a clean green image.
What astonishs me is that no NZ or Aust review I have read so far picked up on the lack on the absence of a DPF or similar device.
Pending a response from Hyundai NZ I intend to advise all the motoring journalists that reviewed the i30 in NZ of the lack of a DPF to raise awareness
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I don't think there is any conspiracy to not ship DPF equipped cars to Australia.
I think it's just to do with lead times to build assembly plant. I speculate that there is not currently sufficient capacity to build the new gearbox for the U2 (euro5/DPF/6speed) engine to supply outside europe. They are supposed to be building a new gearbox plant in Nosovice and it's my guess that eventually gearboxes will be shipped from there to Korea for assembly on to the i30's destined for the southern hemisphere, when the new plant is complete. There hasn't been any info release on the new gearbox plant for a while though.
Speculation, but it seems a feasible explanation to me.
Euro 5 isn't mandatory for existing car models yet.
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Lorian
I assumed that all i30 CRDi's shipped in Europe to date had a DPF even with the 4 speed auto transmissions. Are you saying the only i30 diesels to have a DPF are the 6 speed manuals ?
Will this new 6 speed transmission be automatic too ?
FYI I am only interested in automatic transmission
Euro 5 isn't mandatory for existing car models yet.
September 2009: Euro 5 applies to all new car models
January 2011: Euro 5 applies to all new cars
http://www.euractiv.com/en/transport/euro-5-emissions-standards-cars/article-133325 (http://www.euractiv.com/en/transport/euro-5-emissions-standards-cars/article-133325)
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Pip and Dazzler. Thank you for your replies. FYI in NZ all i30 models come with all safety features including Stability Control but there is no regulation to require the later. Hyundai NZ could make more profit by removing this or making it optional as in Aust but chose not to something I applaud them for.
What astonishs me is that no NZ or Aust review I have read so far picked up on the lack on the absence of a DPF or similar device.
If I were in marketing I think I could easily make a case for ESP. In fact, I reckon it would already be near the top of most people's list of desirable features. I wouldn't have bought a car without it myself. On the other hand, DPF? "What's a DPF? Will it save me money? Will it save my life? No? Oh, OK, I can do without that!"
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Well said Pip..
I think xlink is very much in the minority feeling so strongly about the lack of a DPF .. please correct me if I am wrong but I think he is the first member on here out of almost 1300 to mention it in that way...
Whereas, Stability control gets plenty of press on here (mostly in a positive way)
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I'm really with xlink here. Although I should state, in much the same way that not fully-committed greenies are; I'm in - so long as it doesn't cost me anything!
Clearly this is not a real green attitude, but my point is that the majority of people are happy to accept anything, and I mean anything at all, that presents zero cost to them while benefiting the planet at the same time.
These sorts of confluences rarely happen.
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Why or why do manufacturers build different spec for different countries.
Money!!!! or should I say bottom line PROFIT.
Surely by producing the same "bit" for all markets brings into play "economies of scale".
I would expect by sourcing say 2 or 3 different "bits" for the same part may save slightly at the final point of production but just think how many parts for the same "bit" do they have to hold in stock.
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I assumed that all i30 CRDi's shipped in Europe to date had a DPF even with the 4 speed auto transmissions. Are you saying the only i30 diesels to have a DPF are the 6 speed manuals ?
I believe this is the case, at least here in the UK. Although we have no recent members with a CRDi automatic to check with (at least none that have mentioned having an auto) I have pulled the latest brochure, and the 4 speed automatic still shows the engine specs for the original U-series engine, which I believe will not have a DPF.
Will this new 6 speed transmission be automatic too ?
No, this is a manual box. There was mention some time ago when the U2 was "launched" that there would be a 4 speed automatic box to couple to the U2 but this has not been mentioned for some months. Presumably they need to do work to obtain EuroV for the automatic, but again this is a guess.
FYI I am only interested in automatic transmission
You won't see many people who consider their green credentials driving an automatic in the UK. The current i30 auto offering creates about 25% more co2. It would therefore also cost a lot more in annual vehicle excise duty here (car tax). Of course there is no choice if the auto box is required for medical reasons.
September 2009: Euro 5 applies to all new car models
January 2011: Euro 5 applies to all new cars
The point is the i30 is not a new car model. It's type approval for the diesel engine version in UK is still actually that from the U engine, so even though my car is for example a Euro5 compliant car with a DPF, it is officially listed as euro IV. The brochure implies this is still the case. Sometime they will get it re-tested, before the deadline no doubt.
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I can only comment on the engines I've personally driven, the 1.4 petrol and the 1.6 diesel.
I was surprised by the 1.4 petrol. It was smooth, quiet and refined. Around town it's more than adequate really. The only place I found it lacking was on the motorway, and that was something I would have struggled with. If you just needed a motor for round town, and aren't bothered about going slowly on the motorway, the 1.4 petrol is fine.
The diesel is torquier, more powerful and more frugal. It's not so refined though, but that's just diesels in general really. The 6th gear on the motorway is a dream and allows you to cruise at decent speeds without using a high rpm. The fuel economy is what made me decide to go for the diesel more than anything though. 62mpg in a car of this size and with this power is very good imho.
I'd just try all that you're interested in and see what you prefer, then try them again to make sure :-)
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Well said Pip..
I think xlink is very much in the minority feeling so strongly about the lack of a DPF .. please correct me if I am wrong but I think he is the first member on here out of almost 1300 to mention it in that way...
Whereas, Stability control gets plenty of press on here (mostly in a positive way)
It is all about awareness. My local dealer assumed it had a DPF and was somewhat shocked to hear it didn't have one. If customers were told that their prospective car had nothing in place to stop known carcinoginic emissions I'm sure many would be put off.
To raise awareness I have contacted all reviewers in NZ of the i30 CRDi and informed them. The NZ AA [who gave it car of year] when they got my email imediately contacted Hyundai NZ. In the absence of regulation, The more people that ask [like ESP] the higher the lightlyhood the new car importer will listen
Now for some good news. Hyundai NZ did advise me that the current i30 CRDi does have a Diesel Oxidisation Catalyst. They are going to find out how effective it is. DOCs remove between 20-60% DPM and sometimes as high as 80% but not as much as a DPF which can be 100% effective. Note Hyundai NZ have been very helpful and transparent :)
Pip [or anyone else in Aust NZ] feel free to find your DOC and let me know the model and manufacturer, then prehaps we can find out how much Diesel Particulate Matter is removed, if Hyundai don't.
Of note the IX35 in NZ does have a DPF ! [figure that one out]
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The topic of DPF has come up before. Do a search and you will come up with the discussion. There is a "box" in the exhaust but I don't think it was definitively identified, only that it was not a DPF. Talking about Oz diesels here.
Aren't the actual pollutants specified by Hy? If the amount and type of the pollutants will influence your purchase decision, surely comparing these for the cars on your short list is more pertinant than obsessing over whether a DPF is fitted or not.
I understand your point that fitting a DPF will "improve" the results but if it aint there, it aint there.
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Aren't the actual pollutants specified by Hy?
No they are not, most manufactuers simply state Co2 emissions and whether they meet Euro4 or Euro5.
The absence of the DPF and how much PM is removed by the DOC in a CRDi is a definately a factor on any decision we make to get a CRDi. It could be we just get a petrol or dare I say it a much greener diesel car from another manufactuer
BTW I think this discussion is healthy
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HY UK have in the past published the particulate levels for the engine with the DOC and for the one model with the DOC and DPF, but this information has now been removed. It wil still be in the previous version of the sales brochure if anyone still has it, the one about September last year.
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Pip & others
Diesel Particulate matter is known to cause Health issues, there is little doubt if any there. A brief overview can be found here with further external links http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_particulate_matter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_particulate_matter) and also here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_exhaust_air_contaminants (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_exhaust_air_contaminants) which lists the carcinogens with supporting external links. I"m sure you will agree it is more ideal to have a DPF
Yeah, ok I'm convinced, sounds like we ought have had a DPF as standard already. But we don't, and personally it would not have influenced my buying decision even with my greater enlightenment. It would probably just have remained a disappointment perhaps. If I could have chosen it as a cost option? Hmm...
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I can only comment on the engines I've personally driven, the 1.4 petrol and the 1.6 diesel.
I was surprised by the 1.4 petrol. It was smooth, quiet and refined. Around town it's more than adequate really. The only place I found it lacking was on the motorway, and that was something I would have struggled with. If you just needed a motor for round town, and aren't bothered about going slowly on the motorway, the 1.4 petrol is fine.
The diesel is torquier, more powerful and more frugal. It's not so refined though, but that's just diesels in general really. The 6th gear on the motorway is a dream and allows you to cruise at decent speeds without using a high rpm. The fuel economy is what made me decide to go for the diesel more than anything though. 62mpg in a car of this size and with this power is very good imho.
I'd just try all that you're interested in and see what you prefer, then try them again to make sure :-)
My 1.4 does 80mph and more very sweetly on the motorway. Though I don't know what you count as slow. :)
The choice of diesel against petrol was a no-brainer decision for me as I mainly drive around town anyway and haven't done over 4000 miles a year for ages.
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i might like to add that you cant get bacteria growing in petrol.! so a petrol engine must be safer on fuel.if i put diesel in my car by accident im safe to drain it out put in some petrol and keep driving. :rolleyes: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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i might like to add that you cant get bacteria growing in petrol.! so a petrol engine must be safer on fuel.if i put diesel in my car by accident im safe to drain it out put in some petrol and keep driving. :rolleyes: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Who asked your opinion anyway... :lol: :wink:
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dbo8 originally, and others. :lol:
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well after this last trip i just compleated into the Aussie outback. i'm very happy i got diesel as if i needed to fill up out there, the diesel was same price as the cheapest of the cheap unlead fuels, where premium unlead fuel was priced way up like close to $1.50. the distance i covered on one tank & the population of most small towns out there being so low. i don't think i killed off many people from diesel fumes. but poor little betsy had to put up with the locus plauge she had dead locusts all over the front of her and the chineese replacement windscreen ( ps i really love this Chineese windscreen!)
we had a great trip and Betsy seems to like BP diesel as thats what i filled her on and also i put a small bottle of Wynnes Diesel fuel aditive $11 a bottle she has 1,100k on this tank and still has 1/4 of a tank left. if any petrol i30 can travel that far on a tank and at 110KPH i would be very impressed. also Betsy needs her 60,000k service i will be useing ELF oil fully Synthetic but higher quality base than what the Castrol synthetic i now use has.
also i thought i would point out, a guy with a Mazda 3 2.0L turbo diesel told me he has had problems with his DPF blocking up very expencive to replace too and car stopped would not run, less miles than betsy has on her. but i don't know the full story but the Mazda diesls fly.
cheers
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All
Based on my own googling and replies to this thread https://i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,5626.0.html (https://i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,5626.0.html)
Particulate Emissions for the i30 CRDi appear to be as follows:
0.02 g/km without DPF
0.005 g/km without DPF
Basicially there is four times more diesel particulate being emmitted without a DPF which could corralate to the DOC [diesel oxidisation catalyst] being 25% effective
NB: A DOC typically reduces emissions between 20-60%
I am still gathering more data...
Certainly the NZ and Aust i30 CRDi's are not green by the usual standards i..e less than 120g/km of C02 etc. Whether it is considered dirty I'll leave to each persons thoughts...
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Particulate Emissions for the i30 CRDi appear to be as follows:
0.02 g/km without DPF
0.005 g/km without DPF
Errmm.. I think you got a typo :cool:
We know what you meant :wink:
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They .au version emits more than 120g/Km co2? The european versions of the 1.6CRDi have been below this for more than a year. I think maybe it was 125g/Km for early cars, but an increase in one of the gear ratios (4th?) put it down to 119g/Km sometime early in 2009 (may have been 2008).
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They .au version emits more than 120g/Km co2?
correct the manual 128g and the auto [which is what I am interested in] 159g
http://www.hyundai.com.au/i30-CW/default.aspx (http://www.hyundai.com.au/i30-CW/default.aspx)
How come manual has less emissions and better economy - should I assume because it has 5 gears rather then the 4 of the automatic ?
Hyundai really need to get their automatics fuel effecient, the VW Golf TDI 1.6 does 4.8l/100 but has a 7 speed automatic DSG gear box
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How come manual has less emissions and better economy - should I assume because it has 5 gears rather then the 4 of the automatic ?
Hyundai really need to get their automatics fuel effecient, the VW Golf TDI 1.6 does 4.8l/100 but has a 7 speed automatic DSG gear box
The DSG is not an (inefficient) torque converter type automatic but rather an automated manual gearbox. Manual gearboxes due to their inherent efficiency waste less fuel and therefore emit less unwanted combustion byproducts.