i30 Owners Club
MODIFYING OR DETAILING YOUR I30 => ENGINE BAY => Topic started by: Lorian on May 17, 2010, 08:54:25
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According to a search of our forums, Hypermiling is not a word that exists in the i30 community.
Not any longer!
Our cars are not hybrids, but there are a lot of things that can be of use from the Hypermiling community that can apply to i30 petrols and diesels.
So this thread is NOT to brag about how many MPG or LPK you get, it's to post advice and discussion on techniques that can help to attain these goals.
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So I'll kick off with a few. I know some are obvious :razz:
Parking
Where possible try to park facing downhill, and in spaces where you don't have to reverse in or out.
Driving
Don't brake. Well of course you are going to have to brake, but every time you do you are wasting energy and increasing your fuel consumption. Think ahead, get your foot of the gas sooner.
Slowing down
Remember the fuel pump cut-off. If you don't have a scanguage this is not obvious, but then you are decelerating don't dip the clutch and coast, keep the car in gear because the ECU turns off the fuel pump.
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Parking
Where possible try to park facing downhill, and in spaces where you don't have to reverse in or out.
Why?
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The petrol i30 can be driven extremely frugally around town. It is possible to engage 5th gear from 30mph and the car will not shudder even as low as 25mph. Change gear at 2-2500rpm in town also.
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Parking
Where possible try to park facing downhill, and in spaces where you don't have to reverse in or out.
Why?
So you don't have to fang the engine cold.
Not good for the engine, also when the engine's cold the engine uses more fuel.
If your facing down hill you can just coast (in gear) down, get a little bit of warmth and oil pressure up.
Regards
Daniel
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Parking
Where possible try to park facing downhill, and in spaces where you don't have to reverse in or out.
Why?
So you don't have to fang the engine cold.
Not good for the engine, also when the engine's cold the engine uses more fuel.
If your facing down hill you can just coast (in gear) down, get a little bit of warmth and oil pressure up.
Regards
Daniel
Ahhh that makes sense. Thanks!
Btw you shouldn't use 5th gear at such low speeds as it makes the engine work harder.
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In 5th at 30mph the petrol i30 is quite happily sitting at 1500rpm, not a strain for the motor at all, unless you choose to try and floor it :)
In 4th gear at 30mph my car shows ~33mpg, in 5th this rises to ~38mpg.
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So I'll kick off with a few. I know some are obvious :razz:
Parking
Where possible try to park facing downhill, and in spaces where you don't have to reverse in or out.
Driving
Don't brake. Well of course you are going to have to brake, but every time you do you are wasting energy and increasing your fuel consumption. Think ahead, get your foot of the gas sooner.
Slowing down
Remember the fuel pump cut-off. If you don't have a scanguage this is not obvious, but then you are decelerating don't dip the clutch and coast, keep the car in gear because the ECU turns off the fuel pump.
Hey, great topic! Expect a lot of differing opinions...
I'll take exception to the idea that coasting (on the overrun) in gear is better than in neutral. Your point called: "Slowing down".
You need to consider whether the "engine braking" uses more energy than that saved from the zero fuel injection. I just love to coast down long hills in the reasonable belief that I'm saving fuel (apart from the quiet exhilaration ).
In practice, you need to evaluate (as best you can) which is the preferred way to progress WRT economy.
Given a very long descent I often observe a reduction of 0.1 l/100k before the bottom of the hill. I can't say I have repeated the experiment while maintaining 5th (top) gear.
If you really meant just while coasting to the lights. Then I take your point. :)
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The best way to save fuel is ......................... don't turn the engine on :lol: :lol:
Ask a mate for a lift :lol:
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Hey Pip,
I get the same .1 improvement on descents maintaing 5th gear... :wink:
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Of course when I said decelerating I meant when you need to go slower, If driving down a very long hill it only applies at the bottom unless its steep enough that acceleration due to gravity is higher than the retardation caused by the engine breaking. We have some of those in my part of the world, but not on my regular commutes.
Here's another, I call it floating the throttle. If you are driving along at a constant-ish speed, conciously try varying the thottle. You will find you can often back-off the throttle a mm or two, and not actually go any slower. This is particularly usefull when getting a partial tow* from a larger vehicle in front of you on a motorway (highway,freeway). If you have a good tow the effect can be very noticeable in the fuel economy. A scangauge is SO usefull for seeing this effect.
*I say partial tow as you always need to maintain a safe distance to the vehicle in front of course. In the UK this is generally accepted as being a 2 second gap. I only ever use vehicles I can see through for even a partial tow.
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All good advice thanks Lorian...
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Slowing down
Remember the fuel pump cut-off. If you don't have a scanguage this is not obvious, but then you are decelerating don't dip the clutch and coast, keep the car in gear because the ECU turns off the fuel pump.
Unfortunately, i'm a noobie cake. As a result, I'm lost confused. This is apply only to slowing down from a hill or does this include slowing down into lights when you got your foot on the brake as well? Sorry, but could you explain this a bit more for me? =/ Sorry!
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Slowing down
Remember the fuel pump cut-off. If you don't have a scanguage this is not obvious, but then you are decelerating don't dip the clutch and coast, keep the car in gear because the ECU turns off the fuel pump.
Unfortunately, i'm a noobie cake. As a result, I'm lost confused. This is apply only to slowing down from a hill or does this include slowing down into lights when you got your foot on the brake as well? Sorry, but could you explain this a bit more for me? =/ Sorry!
This refers to the ECU only feeding fuel to the engine when it requires it either to maintain idle or of course, when driving with accelerator pressed.
Whenever the car's motion is "pushing" the engine, no fuel will be used. This will occur when you fully release the accelerator whilst the car is in motion. No matter whether you are braking or not.
This will not occur when the car is in neutral (whether coasting or not) because it will then be idling.
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I wonder what is more efficient - driving in, e.g., 5th gear at ~1500rpm, or 4th gear at ~1900rpm (same speed).
In theory there shouldn't be any difference for fuel consumption, since in both cases you are moving the same mass having same overall resistance at the same speed.
But it's only when we do not take into account at what RPM engine is most effective.
If we are talking about 1.6 CRDI, I think that max torque is at ~1900. So it appears that it should be better to keep RPM close to this number (i.e. drive in 4th gear). But almost every "eco-driving" advice says "change gears as soon as possible". So I wonder if it's good advise...
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I'd say change gear as soon as the revs are high enough that when you have changed up you still have 1500rpm. That way you don't bog down.
When chaging down its most efficent to do so sufficiently soon for the FCO to kick in.
6th is more efficient in practice, but only just, there isn't really a lot in it. I can easily* drive on the motorway in 5th and get really good mileage, and I don't drive slowly.
*After 20 years of driving a 5 speed sometimes I still forget to change up :D
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I wonder what is more efficient - driving in, e.g., 5th gear at ~1500rpm, or 4th gear at ~1900rpm (same speed).
In theory there shouldn't be any difference for fuel consumption, since in both cases you are moving the same mass having same overall resistance at the same speed.
But it's only when we do not take into account at what RPM engine is most effective.
If we are talking about 1.6 CRDI, I think that max torque is at ~1900. So it appears that it should be better to keep RPM close to this number (i.e. drive in 4th gear). But almost every "eco-driving" advice says "change gears as soon as possible". So I wonder if it's good advise...
The RPM where the engine is most efficient will be masked by the turbo in the CRDi. You are correct that greatest efficiency occurs at max torque RPM but the "native" figure is being modified substantially by the feedback. So is the greatest efficiency at the final (system) max torque RPM or the original inherent figure?
That point aside, I suspect it is of lesser importance than your second point recommending running with the lowest revs (highest gear) for any given speed. Consider an extreme example of just how much extra accellerator, and therefore fuel, you need to rev the engine to say 4000RPM compared to idling, when the car is at a standstill. If this was not a consideration then most cars would not benefit from a 5th/6th gear because they usually can reach maximum speed in 4th anyway.
Lorian's advice to maintain the lower RPM at about 1500 when accellerating gently through the gears is sensible. This generally puts the change points between 2000 and 2500.
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Thats' what I usually do - let RPM climb to 2000-2500 then change gear.
Also, one more point - if you drive at low speed (e.g. 20km/h), overall resistance is rather small and there is very little difference in fuel consumption if you keep RPM at 1500 or at 2000 (not much power is required to move the car). But things change when speed goes up, as air resistance is function of speed v3. Much more power is required to move the car, so RPM starts to play bigger role - it becomes more efficient to drive at max torque RPM than below (i.e. you will consume more fuel driving 60km/h at 1500 than at 2000). With more gears it is easier to keep engine RPM in the optimal range, that's why 6-gear box is more fuel-efficient than 5.
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For better fuel consumption, be careful where, when, how you use the Cruise Control.
CC doesn't think ahead for hills so it doddles along happily until the car starts to loose speed on the uphill and then slams down a gear or two in a mad dash to maintain the set speed.
I also suspect that the constant minor adjustments it makes on a straight flat road to maintain the speed would be causing throttle variances which would add to consumption.
I believe that a careful, forward thinking driver can operate much more fuel efficiently than a Cruise Control.
Having said all that, I am often happy to sacrifice any fuel saving for the benefits in staying under the speed limit and being able to devote my concentration to other things (like the idiots around me in the traffic and the road conditions).
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Thats' what I usually do - let RPM climb to 2000-2500 then change gear.
Also, one more point - if you drive at low speed (e.g. 20km/h), overall resistance is rather small and there is very little difference in fuel consumption if you keep RPM at 1500 or at 2000 (not much power is required to move the car). But things change when speed goes up, as air resistance is function of speed v3. Much more power is required to move the car...
I think more correctly air-resistance varies with the square of the velocity, not cube. It is the power required to overcome that resistance that varies with the cube. So while air-resistance increases 4 times for a doubling of velocity, the power used increases 8 times. Why the power increase is double the air-resistance increase is because we will be covering the ground in half the time. Time is always in the power formula because power is the rate of doing work.
Not sure if I put that well but the bottom line is: If you double your cruising speed you use eight times the fuel all else being equal. Which does correspond to your V3 above. :wink:
Any physics teachers here? Feel free...
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I think more correctly air-resistance varies with the square of the velocity, not cube.
Of course you are right. I was looking at the power equation, when I wrote this. Should be rephrased a little bit.
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lol we have uber fuel efficent cars... i think we are doing enough!
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lol we have uber fuel efficent cars... i think we are doing enough!
I remember thinking that in the 1960s when I was getting close to 30MPG out of a 1.6 litre Fiat!!
I'm glad we didn't stop there. :rolleyes: :lol:
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lol we have uber fuel efficent cars... i think we are doing enough!
My 1.4 petrol does a massive 31 around town, about the same as the cars I had 30 years ago.
My tip is not to slow down for bends. 8) Though it does wear out the tyres a bit.
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lol you guys would have cried if you had my old car... roughly to a tank i was getting 600km and it had a 100L tank in it... just before it went to the wreckers it was playing up, and i was getting 20L/100km it was terrible! especially parting with the $130 to fill it :(
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Heres a question for you, when sitting in traffic, is it bad to just use the clutch to move along slowly? Does this put a lot of strain on the engine?
(Talking about the crdi here :))
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^-- that's what I do when needed, Eddy
Not sure whether anything is strained because of it tho
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If you are slipping the clutch then it will be (slowly) wearing. In traffic I quite often drive using the anti-stall only to accelerate in 1st or 2nd gears (even 3rd/4th), and no clutch, where possible.
You have to watch out the i30's CRDi's torque doesn't give the car in front a kiss, it can be a suprising surge on the anti-stall sometimes.
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Yes I have noticed that Lorian, its a very powerful anti-stall! Did I read somewhere that you can get the garage to turn it off? (Not that I want to at the moment)
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I don't believe it can be turned off. You get used to it :D
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Did I read somewhere that you can get the garage to turn it off?
When I first got mine I went back to the dealer as I thought there was a problem.
I was told that as it was diesel and the fuel is pumped under pressure the anti stall is an intergal part of the system otherwise you would get fuel starvation issue.
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can i save diesel if when i brake i put it on neutral?
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can i save diesel if when i brake i put it on neutral?
No. Quite the opposite in fact. No fuel will be used when slowing down in gear until 1000 rpm is reached. Another benefit of not declutching early is that the engine load will reduce the effort required of the brakes so will save brake pads and fuel. :wink:
It just occured that you might have an auto. Same response although I imagine less benefit from engine braking. Stick it in neutral if waiting at lights for an extended period.
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I am wondering about this fuel cutoff thing, i regularly knock it out of gear on long downhill stretches,
when driving to Spain there is a section of mountain you can coast for about 5 miles, my theory was, it saves the 1,000s of rpm's it would do IN gear,
and gives the engine time to cool a bit after the climb, IF the fuel "cut off," why doesn't the engine cut out?
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The intertia of the car is still dirving the engine. If it's 5 miles downhill you may need a combination of technique. You are trying to keep the fuel cutoff for as long as possible, but whilst still maintaining a safe, and acceptable speed.
Its important to remember the car is effectively braking slightly all the time the fuel is cut-off. The effect will be obvious on your long decent, occasionally you may have to switch to neutral to speed up, depending on the gradient and road conditions.
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i regularly knock it out of gear on long downhill stretches,
Isn't this dangerous!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm sure I've read that the engine can turn off if this goes on for a certain length of time. May be not the i30 but other makes.
Just think what may NOT happen if you need to accelerate or even brake quickly
I would expect that this practice in the UK could land you with a fine or even a ban as you do not have full control over the vehicle.
Don't forget on a down hill road if you are using the brakes a lot to reduce speed what about brake fade.
Also, the engine will act as a supplementary brake system.
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i regularly knock it out of gear on long downhill stretches,
Isn't this dangerous!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm sure I've read that the engine can turn off if this goes on for a certain length of time. May be not the i30 but other makes.
Just think what may NOT happen if you need to accelerate or even brake quickly
I would expect that this practice in the UK could land you with a fine or even a ban as you do not have full control over the vehicle.
Don't forget on a down hill road if you are using the brakes a lot to reduce speed what about brake fade.
Also, the engine will act as a supplementary brake system.
Once you understand the dynamics, neutral is as valid as any other gearbox selection. As Paul indicated, neutral coasting downhill is an effective way to reclaim the energy used (actually stored) in the car's mass having raised it to a height by driving up the hill.
WRT engine braking, yes, sometimes instead of neutral, 4th or 5th (or even 3rd or 2nd) is a better selection in order to hold speed within the limit wanted. If controlled properly minimum braking is possible and desirable. There would be no point at all to coast in neutral and apply the brake at the same time; that would show a misunderstanding.
As for not having full control or being dangerous, I suspose there are many, if not most, drivers that qualify for that description irrespective of technique. :wink:
I will change gears several times going down a long undulating or winding hill, one of those "gears" used will be neutral. :cool:
My simple aim will be to use the accellerator and brakes as little as possible. Sometimes when driving a little quicker :evil: I press both a bit harder but always still within a controlled maximum. I save fuel, brakes and tyres by being a relatively gentle driver, yet I can maintain a good average by never slowing down unnecessarily which includes not allowing the engine to retard progress on the overrun unless it needs to.
Anybody here also ride a pushbike? Imagine being unable to coast. The energy you would waste just keeping up. :D
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My simple aim will be to use the accelerator and brakes as little as possible. Sometimes when driving a little quicker :evil: I press both a bit harder but always still within a controlled maximum. I save fuel, brakes and tyres by being a relatively gentle driver, yet I can maintain a good average by never slowing down unnecessarily which includes not allowing the engine to retard progress on the overrun unless it needs to.
my sentiment exactly, on the mountain i coast down, the speed is pretty constant at about 60/65 mph due to wind resistance, and is dual carriageway, if the car was in gear i would still do the same speed but the engine would be doing 2000rpm as opposed to tickover speed (less wear to my engine and gearbox)my theory?
:rolleyes:
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I understands what you are saying but in my mind coasting in neutral, even for a very short distance, means you don't have full control of the car.
Also, the fuel you say is negligible, isn't it?
In the UK if you coasted in neutral on your test you would FAIL.
Also, I've heard of stories were the Police have issued a driver with a ticket for not being in full control of the car as they have coasted.
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I prefer to go down hills in 4th or 5th (like the feel of a little engine breaking and prefer not to ride the brakes any more than I have to..) :cool:
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Also, I've heard of stories were the Police have issued a driver with a ticket for not being in full control of the car as they have coasted.
how can a cop, following you, or beside you possibly know your in neutral? its pretty hard to look over from your drivers seat to the gear stick in another car thats next to you to see what gear they are in...
unless the car is sitting on 9000rpm and screaming its 717's off its not really going to be obvious is it...
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I prefer to go down hills in 4th or 5th (like the feel of a little engine breaking and prefer not to ride the brakes any more than I have to..) :cool:
Dazz, a response like this shows that you have not understood. Maybe I've not been clear but coasting and applying the brakes, instead of remaining in gear is not being suggested here. The opposite in fact, in the circumstance you cite here where you would otherwise need to "ride the brakes".
Engine braking when not warranted is wasting energy. Remember the topic is "Hypermiling Techniques" and we are discussing one way to improve mileage which is valid within the topic even if some don't wish to utilise it.
There are many techniques that many drivers cannot or choose not to master, like left foot braking (hell, even normal emergency braking is not taught before a license is handed out). Sensible and safe coasting falls into that category.
Just as judicious left foot braking is not taught, even for automatics where two feet two pedals make sense to me, neither is energy concious driving but this does not make any of these things "dangerous". They just remain unknown and unused in the average driver's skillset.
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its very dangerous to use both feet on the pedals...
why do you think you see people driving along with the brake lights on, because they "forget" there foot is on the pedal or they "just rest it there... why do you think old people slam into things... they forget and push the wrong pedal, then BAM into a building/car/person...
it does have its merrits in motorsport!!
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its very dangerous to use both feet on the pedals...
why do you think you see people driving along with the brake lights on, because they "forget" there foot is on the pedal or they "just rest it there... why do you think old people slam into things... they forget and push the wrong pedal, then BAM into a building/car/person...
it does have its merrits in motorsport!!
I use left foot braking in an automatic. Makes all the sense in the world. But in a manual, the brake and clutch pedals are smaller and to use your left foot to brake you'd need to be sitting a bit off centre to the steering wheel as the axistence of the clutch pedal means the brake is more to the right.
And it would, as you say, be stupid to leave your foot on the brake pedal. That's what the foot rest is for.
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its very dangerous to use both feet on the pedals...
..why do you think old people slam into things...
I never appreciated this relationship. So glad I'm not old. :wink: :rolleyes: :lol:
Oh, hang on... I've been driving for 50 years, I might qualify by your measure. :'( I'm gunna try real hard to stop myself slamming into something.
..left foot, right foot... got it, I think, at least for the moment... :cool:
Actually, many years ago the guy in my local servo had "an old person" run over him after getting a fill. The car got away from him and he drove into the workshop. I wonder if he got his feet mixed up?
If we start a thread on whether older drivers ought to hand in their licenses I think I know where you stand. :-[
Incidently, if you drive a manual it's impossible to drive without having "both feet on the pedals".
Please excuse my sarcasm... I do know what you meant... just disagree.
Edit: Perhaps introducing left foot braking into my argument was not a good example of an advanced technique not commonly taught. In any case this has effectively been superceded by ESP and further does not work anyway as has been discussed elsewhere; applying the brake simultaneously with the accelerator kills the engine.
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its very dangerous to use both feet on the pedals...
..why do you think old people slam into things...
I never appreciated this relationship. So glad I'm not old. :wink: :rolleyes: :lol:
Oh, hang on... I've been driving for 50 years, I might qualify by your measure. :'( I'm gunna try real hard to stop myself slamming into something.
..left foot, right foot... got it, I think, at least for the moment... :cool:
BWHAHAHAHA for that my friend ill give you a beer!! *hands beer over*
nah im not having a dig at you guys! just the elderly that probably shouldnt be driving! and for the record, i even see people my age driving with their foot on the brake!
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its very dangerous to use both feet on the pedals...
..why do you think old people slam into things...
I never appreciated this relationship. So glad I'm not old. :wink: :rolleyes: :lol:
Oh, hang on... I've been driving for 50 years, I might qualify by your measure. :'( I'm gunna try real hard to stop myself slamming into something.
..left foot, right foot... got it, I think, at least for the moment... :cool:
Actually, many years ago the guy in my local servo had "an old person" run over him after getting a fill. The car got away from him and he drove into the workshop. I wonder if he got his feet mixed up?
If we start a thread on whether older drivers ought to hand in their licenses I think I know where you stand. :-[
Incidently, if you drive a manual it's impossible to drive without having "both feet on the pedals".
Please excuse my sarcasm... I do know what you meant... just disagree.
Edit: Perhaps introducing left foot braking into my argument was not a good example of an advanced technique not commonly taught. In any case this has effectively been superceded by ESP and further does not work anyway as has been discussed elsewhere; applying the brake simultaneously with the accelerator kills the engine.
Pip, thanks for sticking up for us "oldies" :cool:
Just on your last point however. As I stated in that other topic, I can definitely "heel and toe" in my car. (2 litre, manual, petrol, Korean build 2010). The engine revs rise instantly when I blip the throttle, even after a longish braking period.
ESP is definitely on and I don't lessen my brake pedal pressure in any way during the manouvre.
Not sure how all this works but it does - no differently to years ago in my Datsun, Subaru and Renault rally cars.
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you can blip the throttle in mine too, damm i do it with out thinking about it!
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On my i30 you can't brake and accelerate at the same time.
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i dont think you can smash the brakes on and accelerate hard at the same time!
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While this is off-topic it could be worth a few lines until we agree on how this works. :wink:
Possibly the diesel and the petrol are different in this respect but in my CRDi the fuel is cut to the engine after about a second when the brake is pressed while some throttle is in use. To test, just lightly touch the brake with left foot but enough to turn on the brake light, while driving normally. Heel and toe actions appear to be unaffected possibly because the "blip" is not long enough to register as a one second overlap of brake and throttle.
Purposeful left foot braking to counter understeer while maintaining power during forceful cornering can result in the engine power cutting out mid-corner.
My point was that ESP can better counter the understeer by selectively braking only the inside rear wheel instead of the relatively clumsy 4 wheel braking the driver must apply.
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On my i30 you can't brake and accelerate at the same time.
Sorry for the confusion if I've caused any.
I'm talking about a blip on the accelerator as you change gears, most often between 3rd and 2nd but sometimes, depending on the corner between 4th and 3rd.
By the time you're changing down, you've been on the brake for maybe 2 or 3 seconds and you maintain that braking pressure as you downshift, blipping the throttle to match the engine revs with the transmission.
It definitely works fine in my car.
Agree there may be something difference in diesels.
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I use left foot braking in an automatic.
Before I continue I've got to say that I have never driven an automatic.
Now saying that I have always been under the impression that when driving an automatic you should never use the left foot. It should just stay to the left of the brake pedal and you should use the right foot for both pedals.
The reason being that you can, say in an emergency, press both pedals at the same time and depending on the force applied and if the brakes are not spot on then the acceleration may be greater than the brakes and you may hit the car/wall/other object.
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The first couple of times I drove an auto I used the left foot for the brake .. I prefer using the right foot for both in an auto. If the brakes have a lot of power assist things can get a bit dramatic with left foot braking.. :eek:
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The first couple of times I drove an auto I used the left foot for the brake .. I prefer using the right foot for both in an auto. If the brakes have a lot of power assist things can get a bit dramatic with left foot braking.. :eek:
I've only had a couple of autos, just enough to decide I don't like them. :cool:
One area where the left foot should definitely be used to advantage is when parking etc. One can control position and progress "inch perfect" by simultaneous control of both pedals. The brake being used to control progress and not the accelerator which is only used to add sufficient power to overcome gradients, lumps, gutters and the like.
Learning how to use the pedals is a requirement we all went through when starting out... there can be more than one "correct" way.
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My new Camry Hybrid is a CVT so guess i'll have to get used to it (Only had one other Auto a ratty Datsun 180B wagon I had as a 2nd vehicle in the early nineties) although had a few as company cars...
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My new Camry Hybrid is a CVT so guess i'll have to get used to it (Only had one other Auto a ratty Datsun 180B wagon I had as a 2nd vehicle in the early nineties) although had a few as company cars...
Oh dear! It sounds like you have sold your soul to the devil... the deal must have been very good. :evil: :evil:
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CVT FTW!!!! i kinda wish my maxima was a CVT one... but i trust the good old jatco 4 speed a bit more then a CVT!
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My new Camry Hybrid is a CVT so guess i'll have to get used to it (Only had one other Auto a ratty Datsun 180B wagon I had as a 2nd vehicle in the early nineties) although had a few as company cars...
Oh dear! It sounds like you have sold your soul to the devil... the deal must have been very good. :evil: :evil:
:-[ Sorry... I went in to test the water and saved around $7000 off the list price on a Demo and got around A$2000 more on my trade than the Hyundai dealer would have given me... :eek: (best deal I've managed to get in 25 car purchases - although will always have fond memories of the CRDI and aleady thinking in say 3 years might trade back to a Hyundai if they have a diesel i45 or something by then :wink: :mrgreen:)
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I've always believed that under normal driving conditions left foot braking should always be avoided. To remain in control of a vehicle under emergency braking & swerving, it is essential for the driver to remain solidly "anchored" in the seat so that the car's movement doesn't alter the driver's seating position.
Sideways movement is usually controlled by a good seat and forward/backward movement by the left footrest. If you brake with both or the left foot, your body weight can be transferred onto the brake pedal and the steering wheel. The harder you brake the more weight is transferred onto the brake pedal then you brake harder - vicious circle. This can also effect your control if your body movement compromises the light & relaxed grip you should have of the steering wheel. That's my two bobs worth anyway. . .
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Just to bring this back to driving for economy, the target for hypermiling always has to be to avoid pressing the brake pedal as much as possible, whatever foot you do it with.
Obviously braking to avoid others and maintain proper control of you car is very important, but the mindset needs to be "If I stop accelerating sooner, can I avoid some braking".
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Not sure we have mentioned weight of the vehicle much in this thread so far, but remember the lighter your vehicle, the less energy it requires to get it moving all the time.
This is not an excuse to leave the spouse and kids at home. "Sorry dear, its more economical if I leave you at home". However it certainly is if you are going to the shops :mrgreen:
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Just to bring this back to driving for economy...
Thank you. :wink:
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Air bag deployment
Taking the above one step further.
If you, the driver, have moved position then the air bag may deploy and you may hit the bag at its side.
By not being centered you may cause injury to yourself
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I prefer to go down hills in 4Th or 5Th (like the feel of a little engine breaking and prefer not to ride the brakes any more than I have to..) :cool:
i don't ride the brakes either
engine braking huh :lol:
the engine braking in my diesel is all but non existant,
in a petrol maybe
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strange i find it pretty good in my 1.6 diesel... different driving styles perhaps?
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Parking
Where possible try to park facing downhill, and in spaces where you don't have to reverse in or out
Park facing downhill in a car park, let go of your open door and it "falls" into the car next to you. Or worse still there's into yours.
Park facing uphill and the doors at least fall closed.
In a car park never park adjacent to a car facing down hill.
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Parking
Where possible try to park facing downhill, and in spaces where you don't have to reverse in or out
Park facing downhill in a car park, let go of your open door and it "falls" into the car next to you. Or worse still there's into yours.
Park facing uphill and the doors at least fall closed.
In a car park never park adjacent to a car facing down hill.
That's an interesting thought :goodjob: (I am avoiding car parks altogether as much as I can)
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i was thinking as i was reading these posts, no one has mention, until recently, weight! the less the better, dont carry so much shite around in your car! do you really need the tie down straps in the back if your not carrying anything on the roof! things like kayak holders on roof racks, or the roof rack themselves if they are easy enough to get on an off, (not including factory roof rails) what about CORRECT tyre pressures? not over inflated, you still want the car to behave correctly in an emergency, and fuel, its heavy, 0.8Kg per litre, so only fill half the tank if your only doing a short commute during the week. oh, and keep air cleaners clean! regularly, petrol powered cars, replace leads and plugs often, they do break down over time and reduce spark strength slowly reducing burn efficiency un-needed electrical accessories, all drain power, which means the alternator has a little bit more load on it. things like fog lights off, unless its actually foggy! same as for batteries, my brothers landcruiser was using 25ltrs/100 km and they couldnt firure out why, found one of its 2 batteries was dead, and the computer was running the alternator at max capacity trying to charge a dead battery all the time, changed battery, fuel consumption dropped back to its claimed 15 ltrs/100km.
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Thanks for that :goodjob: (some excellent input there) :razz:
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Slowing down
Remember the fuel pump cut-off. If you don't have a scanguage this is not obvious, but then you are decelerating don't dip the clutch and coast, keep the car in gear because the ECU turns off the fuel pump.
I was wondering about this especially with the diesel.
With my old petrol car you could slow down at a set of traffic lights in gear all the way to almost idle speed, even in 4th gear say. As long as you did not apply throttle, the car didn't seem to labour or be rough.
I notice with the diesel, there is a low pitched rumble and shuddering (like it is labouring) whenever in gear and lower than 1500rpm. If I try to do the same as in petrol car, even with no throttle applied, as the car slows down in gear to less than 1500, this rumbling begins. I'm not used to this sound so I always clutch it and then go into neutral, and instantly it goes away.
Is the car actually labouring despite no throttle? Is it better to go to neutral when it does this? Or is this a normal feeling/sound with the diesel and I should not worry? I have read about diesel engines having a much longer ?stroke than a petrol engine and perhaps the shuddering having something to do with this as the revs drop even with no throttle applied?
Other diesel drivers care to comment?
I understand the benefit of slowing down in gear and fuel cut off, but the sound/feeling I get is uncomfortable coming from a petrol car.
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You need to change down when this happens. It is a quirk of the diesel which improves a bit with more kilometres on the clock ...
When we had our CRDi I avoided going under 1500RPM in 4th and 5th for this reason but as the mileage got us this threshold reduced to 1300 or 1400RPM
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You need to change down when this happens. It is a quirk of the diesel which improves a bit with more kilometres on the clock ...
So you think it is labouring.
It's funny about the diesel this way, how the petrol does not labour as long as you don't push the throttle and expect it to do work, whilst the diesel even with no load/throttle may exhibit this sign.
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You need to change down when this happens. It is a quirk of the diesel which improves a bit with more kilometres on the clock ...
So you think it is labouring.
It's funny about the diesel this way, how the petrol does not labour as long as you don't push the throttle and expect it to do work, whilst the diesel even with no load/throttle may exhibit this sign.
It's because it is applying throttle for you. The diesels are designed to maintain idle even if under load. Actually, it holds at about 1100 rpm so it's some 300 revs above idle. In the lower 2 gears it has sufficient torque to climb quite steep hills by itself. 3rd goes OK on the flat but in 4th or 5th it tries but is unable to pull at the low revs.
You will find that you need to drive considering the lowest speed in each gear more than with a petrol. This means pretty much means keeping out of the 1000-1500 rev band in anything other than 1st and 2nd and not coasting to a stop in 4th lower than 1100 revs else the engine will attempt to maintain drive.
I change down to 3rd or even 2nd when stopping which helps to mask this idiosyncrasy and helpfully provides a little extra engine braking.
Do a search here for "anti-stall" for discussion on this feature.
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You will find that you need to drive considering the lowest speed in each gear more than with a petrol. This means pretty much means keeping out of the 1000-1500 rev band in anything other than 1st and 2nd and not coasting to a stop in 4th lower than 1100 revs else the engine will attempt to maintain drive.
I notice this anywhere below 1500rpm. Is the anti stall operating even at this level? I see that I should either slow down in neutral or change to a lower gear. I've been noticing driving the manual is more work because of this. Need to think more. Not quite as instinctive as it was with my petrol. I guess I'll adapt as I get more used to it.
Very interesting this anti-stall feature. Is this a feature of all diesels or just the i30?
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The engine will loosen up quite a bit as Dazz said which will allow a little more use around 1500 rpm but it won't ever really have enough torque below 1500 in 4th and above to be useful but will on the other hand limit how slowly you can go in any given gear without getting an unwelcome push from the engine. Try this: engage first and idle along then try braking against the engine to slow down. You will discover that this feature will fight you very firmly. Best to discover this before it surprises you when trying to slow down half way around a roundabout in 3rd. :scared:
Old (truck) diesels I believe had the idle regulated mechanically with some sort of centrifigal governor.
You will get used to it... and find it is actually quite useful when trundling along in traffic etc. It also makes for the simplest of take offs... just let out the clutch initially while still idling and then apply accelerator. And it's really terrific for (non) handbrake starts on hills.
Once you work it out and realise where it can be used to advantage it will grow on you. :goodjob:
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Great description Pip :goodjob:
I also really liked that feature when I got used to it(almost impossible to stall... Some of our petrol i30 owners find the petrol model quite easy to stall (The wife's petrol CW seems ok though :goodjob:)
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Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but as I'm now getting a stable 49-50mpg from my 1.4 I've probably got a few tips to pass on.
1. Setting off. Switch on only when you can pull away immediately from a parking space you picked to let you go straight out. Shift up at 2,000-2,500 depending on the road and the gradient, accelerating briskly to your cruise speed.
2. In town. Look ahead! Don't accelerate if you're going to catch up on traffic or a red light. You're looking to conserve as much momentum as you can - trundling along on the flat at 30mph uses very few horsepower so should be nice and efficient. Back off the gas more than you use it - you can almost always keep going roughly as quick as you are with a bit less throttle.
3. Pre-brake. As we want to conserve momentum it can often be better to brake earlier than whatever it is you need to brake for (such as a red light) as its likely it can change to green before you get there. Starting to accelerate again in 3rd gear at 15 mph having not stopped is far more efficient than stopping and starting again.
4. Coast in Neutral as much as possible. The tiny amount of fuel burned at tick over vs coasting in gear is worthwhile, because you roll further out of gear. Basically coast up to everything - lights, roundabouts, that empty parking space at the back of the car park. Coast down hills. Coast between gears. The 255mpg my car does at tick over does wonders for overall economy.
5. Drive with load. Where you need to torque your way up a hill, set a throttle position and stick to it. You'll slow a touch uphill, balance this off by going a little faster down hill. Similarly if you know the road and there's a nice downhill you can coast down, accelerate faster than your normal cruise speed under load then drop into neutral for the coast. And set a cruise speed that's efficient. I don't cruise faster than 65mph (which in practice means doing 60-70 as I pulse accelerate then coast).
Hope this helps. Have been astonished how efficient this car can be when driven in the right way...
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Hi RP..
Thanks for that.. Not sure about the being in Neutral bit though.. I'm sure that has been debated on here and there are as many for it as against it...
Some consider it downright dangerous (will be interested to see what others say)
Did a Google search and quite a bit of discussion on the net (with valid comments for and against)
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Although our cars are autos, in a manual I wont use neutral at all while moving especially down hill. This puts 100% of the breaking load on the brakes, allows the car's speed to increase, requiring more braking and heated brakes and provides no emergency drive or acceleration should it be necessary.
It is indisputable that fuel can be saved by coasting, but the safety reductions clearly outweigh the advantages IMO.
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Although our cars are autos, in a manual I wont use neutral at all while moving especially down hill. This puts 100% of the breaking load on the brakes, allows the car's speed to increase, requiring more braking and heated brakes ...
Ok, here we go again. Phil, your response indicates you do not understand how that technique ought to be employed. :disapp: In which case you are probably right to ignore it.
I use all the gears in my car along with neutral. I rarely need to touch the brakes and that IMO is the most vital part of driving economically. I.e., not wasting fuel heating the brakes. Similarly, allowing the engine to slow the car on the overrun is also indirectly using fuel, in this case to pump air through the engine. This is not offset significantly by the use of no fuel in this mode. Of course, engine braking is the preferred method when you need to slow due to traffic etc, brakes are last resort.
I saw an article some time back about the latest gearbox design for trucks. It used sensors to determine attitude (and other stuff, I don't remember all the details) and the gearbox processor intelligently used coasting in neutral as appropriate to improve economy. In other words it was doing what is proposed here with less intelligence than the average driver. It offered significant fuel savings.
The whole idea when trying to improve economy is to limit fuel used to gain momentum (which most people seem to understand) but then and probably more important, is to not waste it. Engine braking and foot braking are the enemy.
BTW just about to buy fuel, 1200+ on trippy and didn't start with a fully brimmed tank. :wink:
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I wish to deal with coasting in gear and the fuel, used as opposed to coasting in neutral.
It is my experience by observing the fuel, used when coasting that it is better to coast in gear in the diesel vehicles we own. According to the Scangauge in the i30 CRDi and the real time fuel consumption readout in the ix35, when coasting their is 0 fuel being used by the vehicle, provided you foot is off the accelerator.
If this is correct, and I have no reason to doubt the readout I am seeng, coasting down hill in gear has the added advantage of engine breaking. I have driven this way in the i30 for just under 5 years, done 154 000 km and have not needed to replace the break pads, evidence that sensible engine breaking reduces the need for direct breaking and at he same time, helps to conserve fuel.
Modern diesels with electronic fuel injection from common rail controlled by a myriad of sensors via an ECU can shut off fuel delivery when coasting and begin delivering fuel when required to keep the engine turning over.
Those of you who know the SE freeway from the top of the range into Adelaide will realise that, if I am correct, almost no fuel is used with minimal need for breaking. Observation of the Scangauge on the way down shows that fuel usage remains at 0 for the majority of this journey of 9km.
This information (link included) confirms what I have discovered through personal observation.
Coasting
Although it used to be quite a common practice to save fuel, rolling downhill or approaching a junction with the car out of gear is inadvisable because the driver doesn't have full control of the vehicle
You lose the ability to suddenly accelerate out of tricky situations.
You lose engine braking which risks brake fade on downhill stretches – overheated brakes require harder pedal pressures to stop the vehicle.
With changes in vehicle fuel systems coasting won't save you fuel these days either.
Old car with a carburettor – take your foot off the accelerator pedal with the car in gear and fuel is still drawn through into the engine. Fuel savings could be made by coasting out of gear.
Modern car with electronic engine management – fuel and ignition systems are effectively combined and controlled by one Electronic Control Unit (ECU). Take your foot off the accelerator and the ECU cuts the fuel supply to the injectors anyway so there's nothing to be gained by coasting.
Modern diesel engines also have the ability to shut off the fuel when you take your foot off the accelerator.
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/fuels-and-environment/drive-smart.html (http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/fuels-and-environment/drive-smart.html)
Tis website gives great information about driving economically. I have quoted just a small part of the available advice and information.
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Thanks Bob and Pip, I guessed you might both put forward some worthwhile arguments :hatoff:
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I don't agree with coasting in neutral.
I consider it to be a dangerous practice as you have little control of the vehicle should you require it in an emergency.
I taught both of my girls not to do it when I was teaching them to drive.
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I wish to deal with coasting in gear and the fuel, used as opposed to coasting in neutral.
It is my experience by observing the fuel, used when coasting that it is better to coast in gear in the diesel vehicles we own.
No not "better" but an alternative mode that is better in some circumstances.
According to the Scangauge in the i30 CRDi and the real time fuel consumption readout in the ix35, when coasting their is 0 fuel being used by the vehicle, provided you foot is off the accelerator.
Correct, I did say that.
If this is correct, and I have no reason to doubt the readout I am seeng, coasting down hill in gear has the added advantage of engine breaking.
Correct, but only an advantage if you wish to slow or maintain speed. Otherwise a disadvantage as I said before because you will waste momentum.
I have driven this way in the i30 for just under 5 years, done 154 000 km and have not needed to replace the break pads, evidence that sensible engine breaking reduces the need for direct breaking and at he same time, helps to conserve fuel.
A good result. :goodjob2:
Modern diesels with electronic fuel injection from common rail controlled by a myriad of sensors via an ECU can shut off fuel delivery when coasting and begin delivering fuel when required to keep the engine turning over.
Correct.
Those of you who know the SE freeway from the top of the range into Adelaide will realise that, if I am correct, almost no fuel is used with minimal need for breaking. Observation of the Scangauge on the way down shows that fuel usage remains at 0 for the majority of this journey of 9km.
This is a good example of when coasting in gear is correct.
This information (link included) confirms what I have discovered through personal observation.
Coasting
Although it used to be quite a common practice to save fuel, rolling downhill or approaching a junction with the car out of gear is inadvisable because the driver doesn't have full control of the vehicle
I don't think a blanket statement can cover all situations.
You lose the ability to suddenly accelerate out of tricky situations.
So keep it in gear if it's tricky.
You lose engine braking which risks brake fade on downhill stretches – overheated brakes require harder pedal pressures to stop the vehicle.
That's the whole point misunderstood in this statement. The idea is to avoid engine braking when you don't need to maintain speed or slow down.
With changes in vehicle fuel systems coasting won't save you fuel these days either.
This is just wrong. You will use less fuel when coasting in gear but when balanced with the momentum loss you may use more fuel.
Old car with a carburettor – take your foot off the accelerator pedal with the car in gear and fuel is still drawn through into the engine. Fuel savings could be made by coasting out of gear.
Irrelevant here.
Modern car with electronic engine management – fuel and ignition systems are effectively combined and controlled by one Electronic Control Unit (ECU). Take your foot off the accelerator and the ECU cuts the fuel supply to the injectors anyway so there's nothing to be gained by coasting.
Again, presupposes the idle fuel used will be greater than that saved by maintaining momentum.
Modern diesel engines also have the ability to shut off the fuel when you take your foot off the accelerator.
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/fuels-and-environment/drive-smart.html (http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/fuels-and-environment/drive-smart.html)
Tis website gives great information about driving economically. I have quoted just a small part of the available advice and information.
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My eyes! My eyes! :eek:
Any chance of changing that blue to something a bit more eye friendly, pip? :whistler:
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My eyes! My eyes! :eek:
Any chance of changing that blue to something a bit more eye friendly, pip? :whistler:
Is that better Rusty? (Hope you don't mind Pip) :confused:
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I taught both of my girls not to do it when I was teaching them to drive.
Likewise, I never tried to teach my son what is an advanced technique fraught with danger if the driver is unable to properly understand it, let alone get it right.
And after 5 years of driving he has become a very capable driver. He changes gears exactly when and as required and even displays excellent understanding of traffic flow and reacts well ahead of time to situations - for which of course, I take credit. :cool:
Still I see no need to make any changes. Economy is not a biggie for him.
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My eyes! My eyes! :eek:
Any chance of changing that blue to something a bit more eye friendly, pip? :whistler:
Is that better Rusty? (Hope you don't mind Pip) :confused:
Thanks, that was a shocker. :Shocked:
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I taught both of my girls not to do it when I was teaching them to drive.
Likewise, I never tried to teach my son what is an advanced technique fraught with danger if the driver is unable to properly understand it, let alone get it right.
And after 5 years of driving he has become a very capable driver. He changes gears exactly when and as required and even displays excellent understanding of traffic flow and reacts well ahead of time to situations - for which of course, I take credit. :cool:
Still I see no need to make any changes. Economy is not a biggie for him.
I don't see it as an advanced technique, just a dangerous technique.
It's not about getting it "right" because there is no way to get it right.
When you are travelling in a car at 60, 80 or 100 km/h or whatever, without it being in gear, the fact is you are not in control, the laws of physics are.
You can steer and you can brake but you need the full trifecta to have proper control.
Anyone can do it, but I just wouldn't recommend it as a safe driving practice.
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I taught both of my girls not to do it when I was teaching them to drive.
Likewise, I never tried to teach my son what is an advanced technique fraught with danger if the driver is unable to properly understand it, let alone get it right.
And after 5 years of driving he has become a very capable driver. He changes gears exactly when and as required and even displays excellent understanding of traffic flow and reacts well ahead of time to situations - for which of course, I take credit. :cool:
Still I see no need to make any changes. Economy is not a biggie for him.
I don't see it as an advanced technique, just a dangerous technique.
It's not about getting it "right" because there is no way to get it right.
When you are travelling in a car at 60, 80 or 100 km/h or whatever, without it being in gear, the fact is you are not in control, the laws of physics are.
You can steer and you can brake but you need the full trifecta to have proper control.
Anyone can do it, but I just wouldn't recommend it as a safe driving practice.
I personally don't like the idea either.. I have never tried it (but doubt I ever will) :cool:
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I don't see it as an advanced technique, just a dangerous technique.
It's not about getting it "right" because there is no way to get it right.
When you are travelling in a car at 60, 80 or 100 km/h or whatever, without it being in gear, the fact is you are not in control, the laws of physics are.
You can steer and you can brake but you need the full trifecta to have proper control.
Anyone can do it, but I just wouldn't recommend it as a safe driving practice.
Dave, I take your point-of-view and I realise it will be that taken by most. Particularly when safety is suspected to be compromised but the safety card is what gets us all the draconian road rules designed for the lowest common denominator which is usually idiots who don't acknowledge the rules anyway.
Last word on coasting from me. Getting back into gear is less time and effort than changing gears. We all spend time out of gear in a manual when swapping cogs - no difference really.
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Pip, I have no issue with you correcting what I say or taking me to task on the points I raised.
The quote I took from another website I did so as a block. I provided the link to it below the quote. I thought it best not to disect it. It was not meant to be totally relevant.
The idea of maintaining momentum is admirable and I do it whenever I drive, maintaining speed and increasing it downhill steadily to assist in propelling the vehicle up the next rise. These are all recommended along with other similar techniques. The link to the site I quoted from has a full range of great advice on Eco driving techniques and suggestions.
You are obviously keen on the idea of coasting, I'm not and I doubt if a driving instructor would advocate it.
I've done a Google of "coasting down hill to save fuel" search. The results were interesting and provide interesting reading. I won't elaborate bit I suggest it to anyone wanting more information.
Bob
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Fair comment Pip and I understand your point of view. :)
But when changing gears you're only in neutral for a second, which is how it is designed to be.
When coasting, there's a much larger "window" for things to happen necessitating action.
I recall the truck disaster on Greenmount Hill a few years ago which resulted in a huge crash at the bottom of the hill.
Admittedly it was a truck and not a car, and he apparently "missed" a gear and ended up travelling in neutral all the way down the hill as he was unable to get it back into gear.
He just totally lost control and the resulting collision killed a few people including two sisters in one car.
It was a shocker and I remember their dad arrived at the scene because his girls hadn't arrived home and he went looking for them. :disapp:
Chalk and cheese, I acknowledge, but had he been in gear it wouldn't have happened.
And also, it's just the way I was taught so have always had that view. I just don't think it's worth the extra 0.1 l/100 kms you might get.
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Old car with a carburettor – take your foot off the accelerator pedal with the car in gear and fuel is still drawn through into the engine. Fuel savings could be made by coasting out of gear.
This is not quite correct,
At high speed if you take your foot off the accelerator, the throttle closes to idle and only idle quantity fuel, as metered by the idle jet, is sent to the inlet manifold. Taking the car out of gear at high speed will cause the engine to idle, which is the exact same amount of fuel from the idle jet, the idle jet simply won't allow more fuel to pass even with high revs and high vacuum, which is why the car slows down due to engine braking, so no benefit and many disadvantages IMO.
@Pip
I don't understand your comment and I will ignore the practice.
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Been doing a bit more searching on the topic of coasting or freewheeling:
From page 82 of the 2012 ACT Road Rules Handbook
Link to full handbook: http://www.rego.act.gov.au/assets/PDFs/2012_ACT_Road_Rules_Handbook.pdf (http://www.rego.act.gov.au/assets/PDFs/2012_ACT_Road_Rules_Handbook.pdf)
Coasting, freewheeling and clutch control
NEVER coast or freewheel your vehicle with the clutch depressed or the gear lever in neutral.
Driving in gear helps your car to remain stable and keep a good grip on the road surface. When travelling downhill your engine can act as a brake if you drive in gear.
If you drive without the engine in gear you lose stability and control of your car’s speed, particularly while cornering. You may lose control and run off the road or roll over.
It is an offence to drive a vehicle unless you have proper control of it. If you drive with the clutch depressed for any distance (other than the last 2 or 3 metres when coming to a stop) you do not have proper control of your vehicle.
I also found mention in a NT learners document that reads:
Coasting
Any situation where a manual vehicle is travelling with engine not connected to driving wheels, whether by selection of neutral or by depressing the clutch. In this application, no coasting should be permitted until the car is almost stationary, whether downchanging has occurred or not. Automatics must remain in Drive, or other forward gear.
I also found mention of coasting as not permitted in two other state guides for learner drivers.
One such example is from a NSW (Sydney) "A guide to the Driving Test". It lists a number of situations that will mean a student will fail the test. Under Failing to maintain proper control of the vehicle is the following: "Clutch coasting (allowing the vehicle to roll along with your foot on the clutch) or coasting in neutral."
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I guess the "dangerous" comment relates to being able to power away from danger, because I can brake and steer the same in neutral as in gear. But if I'm cruising and need to floor it out of the wag I'll need a gear change. From neutral I'll need a gear change. The difference being.....?
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The difference being the legalities, I guess.
We have a charge here of "Not being in full & proper control of a motor vehicle" which I would contend would fit this scenario.
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The difference being the legalities, I guess.
We have a charge here of "Not being in full & proper control of a motor vehicle" which I would contend would fit this scenario.
I'm sure there is also a similar charge in Australia for this scenario. If I get the chance I shall ask our local police officer and report back.
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The difference being the legalities, I guess.
We have a charge here of "Not being in full & proper control of a motor vehicle" which I would contend would fit this scenario.
I'm sure there is also a similar charge in Australia for this scenario. If I get the chance I shall ask our local police officer and report back.
I'm in Australia.
W.A. has that law so I presume other state & territories would have similar legislation.
It is generally used for people driving cars with kids on their laps, or dogs on their laps, etc (yes, it does happen) but I see no reason why it couldn't be used in this case, if the evidence was available.
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Looking at both OBD and dash fuel consumption meters convinced me that coasting in neutral and with clutch depressed gives you nothing with regard to fuel savings. Fuel supply only gets shut when driving with gas pedal depressed when in the right gear (you need to maintain more than ~1500 RPM). Otherwise you're wasting fuel. Actually, when in neutral you'll burning up way more than when driving in the 3rd gear!
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I agree with you vatazhka. As I've said before, no point in coasting, which is dangerous, when no fuel is used with a fuel injected engine when foot is off the accelerator, unless the engine starts to pull the vehicle forward via the anti-stall feature or the driver depresses the accelerator.
If you have a MAP gauge (such as Scangauge II), this can be used as a fuel saving guide. Simply drive with as low as is possible turbo boost can save fuel. Keep the boost low when possible and when needed, keep it steady and minimal. Planting the foot gets excessive boost and increases fuel usage.
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For better fuel consumption, be careful where, when, how you use the Cruise Control.
CC doesn't think ahead for hills so it doddles along happily until the car starts to loose speed on the uphill and then slams down a gear or two in a mad dash to maintain the set speed.
For some reason mine doesn't seem to do this...
Having said all that, I am often happy to sacrifice any fuel saving for the benefits in staying under the speed limit and being able to devote my concentration to other things (like the idiots around me in the traffic and the road conditions).
Is it a good idea to stay in CC mode when in traffic, particularly heavy traffic?
As for fuel consumption, the minute I get onto the freeway, I hit CC. I can travel for about 120 km before I need to get off of it in order to safely navigate through city traffic.
Last big trip saw the fuel consumption meter dip below 5l/100km for the first time (4.9).
As for hills, the CRDi handles them with ease, in 6th, CC mode active. In contrast my Mazda Tribute (3.0l V6 petrol, 3sp/overdrive auto) is terrible. Get to a reasonable hill, it slows from a set 110 kays to around 100, kicks back a gear or two revs the crap out of itself and accelerates to over 120 kays before backing off. I have to manually deselect overdrive before I approach the hill...
In any case, I've given up trying to drive for economy. Around town i'm getting around 5.8, 4.9-5.0 on a trip. These figures in themselves are pretty good.
I drive where I feel the engine is at is most comfortable, not revving the bags out of it, not laboring it. Usually means gear changes at around 2,000-2,500 rpm, or wherever it feels comfortable to do so without looking at the tacho (a practice in itself that could be construed as "driver distraction".) Certainly, in city traffic I don't care as I'm more focused on not getting involved in any collisions...
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For better fuel consumption, be careful where, when, how you use the Cruise Control.
CC doesn't think ahead for hills so it doddles along happily until the car starts to loose speed on the uphill and then slams down a gear or two in a mad dash to maintain the set speed.
For some reason mine doesn't seem to do this...
Something to do with it being a manual perhaps? :lol:
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Something to do with it being a manual perhaps? :lol:
Could be...
:cool:
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Come to think of it, I'm actually a bit concerned that surferdude's i30 does it.... :undecided: :whistler:
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Interesting thread,some interesting comments,I only have one thing to say about coasting,lets all take our driving test again and see if any of us pass if at any point in the test any of us coast in nuetral,I think not.
It is called angel gear for a reason
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Interesting thread,some interesting comments,I only have one thing to say about coasting,lets all take our driving test again and see if any of us pass if at any point in the test any of us coast in nuetral,I think not.
You always seemed like a guy who was happy to push against the establishment. Me, on the other hand, most people would say not. However, in this point I'm happy to push the line that because most people cannot safely determine when and if "coasting" is useful, sensible or even safe then like lots of road (and other rules), we need to assume most of us are stupid.
I like to think I'm not and can tell the difference well enough to see that coasting (in any form, in or out of gear) is only unsafe for those that are not able to control their vehicles in all conditions. Sadly, that is most of us. :-[
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Interesting thread,some interesting comments,I only have one thing to say about coasting,lets all take our driving test again and see if any of us pass if at any point in the test any of us coast in neutral,I think not.
You always seemed like a guy who was happy to push against the establishment. Me, on the other hand, most people would say not. However, in this point I'm happy to push the line that because most people cannot safely determine when and if "coasting" is useful, sensible or even safe then like lots of road (and other rules), we need to assume most of us are stupid.
I like to think I'm not and can tell the difference well enough to see that coasting (in any form, in or out of gear) is only unsafe for those that are not able to control their vehicles in all conditions. Sadly, that is most of us. :-[
Like Dave pointed out in reply 93,yes this was a heavy vehicle but the principals are the exact same thing no matter the size of the vehicle,all parts are all relevant in size to the size of the vehicle,the example Dave also pointed out had far more facts that where never brought out to the public behind it,only reason I know of them is I knew and worked for Friends of the trucks owner,there was far more to this just than missing a gear,but again the principal is the same,in neutral in certain circumstances you do not have full control,I have missed gears on decent of hills,mountains again in a heavy vehicle and it is not a pleasant situation to be in,knowing that you have lost control.
Yes I very occasionally coast a vehicle,but I am within feet of stopping,maybe I am to old school to understand the logic of someone wishing to partake of this practice,maybe I am just someone who has lost control of a vehicle because of being in Angel gear and it is called Angel gear for a very good reason.
debate is good we all have our own opinions,though I do not condone coasting(I should add here,if you are in gear,technically you can never coast,you are either decelerating,cruising or accelerating),it would not be the unsafest driving practice I see on the road on a daily basis
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I noticed coasting down a hill recently the car may have disengaged the gearbox as engine speed dropped to an idle during the descent. If this is in fact what happened then possibly manual hypermiling techniques may not be as necessary.
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I noticed coasting down a hill recently the car may have disengaged the gearbox as engine speed dropped to an idle during the descent. If this is in fact what happened then possibly manual hypermiling techniques may not be as necessary.
That is interesting Keith! Seems a bit strange though :undecided:
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The topic was Hypermiling techniques.
IF the fuel was "cut off" the engine would stop !
in neutral my car ticks over, so must be getting fuel.
it has never turned off ?
we all know about engine braking, but if the hill you are coasting down allows
a "constant" speed to be maintained, without the use of brakes, leaving it in gear
would decrease your constant speed requiring extra fuel later on !
I would not coast with my foot on the clutch either as it will wear the thrust bearing.
yes I agree it is possibly safer left in gear, but in Hypermiling, engine braking can sometimes be the enemy.
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yes I agree it is possibly safer left in gear, but in Hypermiling, engine braking can sometimes be the enemy.
Good point, I can see where you are coming from! <Brighton> :snigger:
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This thread IMHO is the most pointless, waste of time thread on the whole forum, and it should be locked then deleted, anyone making mention of hypermiling or being a tight ar5e (because lets face it that's what it boils down to) should be banned for life.
hypermiling, get in car, sit down, wind window down, pull keys out, throw them out of window, walk, there is your fuel savings.
You bought it to use, you bought it because it ALREADY is fuel efficient compared to that VS commodore, enjoy it, want more fuel efficiency? buy a push bike.
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I agree that hypermiling is a dangerous practice, involving irresponsible driving techniques. But not locking and deleting the thread, rather educate people, to the dangers involved and that's MHO.
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This thread IMHO is the most pointless, waste of time thread on the whole forum, and it should be locked then deleted, anyone making mention of hypermiling or being a tight ar5e (because lets face it that's what it boils down to) should be banned for life.
hypermiling, get in car, sit down, wind window down, pull keys out, throw them out of window, walk, there is your fuel savings.
You bought it to use, you bought it because it ALREADY is fuel efficient compared to that VS commodore, enjoy it, want more fuel efficiency? buy a push bike.
I don't know the price of fuel in OZ but its so expensive here I will save what I can , if it means coasting down hills what the hell,
I am 60 yrs old and have done it most of my life (without causing or having accidents) I also avoid braking when not needed and riding the clutch.
you obviously have money to burn, buy a nice v8 gas guzzler, I would if I could afford it.
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I too now drive frugally - but never indulge in coasting which is unnecessary in a diesel to save fuel - on the over-run no fuel is delivered to the engine. If you coast a diesel the engine is then idling and using fuel.
I have found that the cruising sweet spot for economic cruising with my car is between 55 mph and 60 mph. Cruise at above 65mph and the economy suffers by at least 6%. This is unfortunate because on a busy motorway it puts you with the lorries in the first lane - so in those circumstances I break my rule and cruise at a slightly higher speed. I rarely use cruise control nowadays - I have managed to convince myself that it hits economy slightly.
I check my tyre pressures weekly and keep them at 37 psi, accelerate gently, chose a gear to keep the engine spinning at 1750 to 2000 rpm, keep weighty clutter out of the car and drive with all windows closed.
If you call this hypermiling - so be it.
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I don't know the price of fuel in OZ,
you obviously have money to burn, buy a nice v8 gas guzzler, I would if I could afford it.
98 RON is today 182.9c/L.
Sort of, what I put away after expenses is there to have fun with.
No, it would be nice but I have a turbo charged 3L skyline i'm putting on the road.