i30 Owners Club
GOT PROBLEMS OR ISSUES? => DIESEL => Topic started by: Shambles on March 07, 2011, 12:18:11
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Had my i30 at her 5 year/60,000 service on 28th Feb.
Since then, when cold, I can barely select 1st or 2nd, almost as if the gear wasn't there to select (particularly 2nd). Once warmed up no problem.
Probably related, and again only since the service, when idling from a cold start, lifting the clutch in neutral starts a slight creep with the engine obviously under a bit of load.
I rang the dealership who did the service and they booked me in "for a chat" on 18th March, with an option to leave my i30 with them to check "from cold" if necessary. The receptionist there does have some tekky knowledge as I've discovered in the past, but she said it doesn't seem "service related", but I can assure them that this problem did not exist prior to the service.
So is there anything I could check myself, or do these symptoms ring a bell with anyone?
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Hi omarkum.
when cold and idling in neutral she creeps forwards with clutch drag.
That can't be good Shambles. I suggest you take it back. Creeping clutch? Not good. :scared:
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burnt out clutch?
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burnt out clutch?
I bloody well hope not :twisted:
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Plus, when cold and idling in neutral she creeps forwards with clutch drag.
I'm assuming when you say "idling in neutral", the clutch is fully engaged but the gear is in neutral. For this scenario I can't imagine what would cause "creep"; certainly nothing to do with the clutch.
Perhaps I've misinterpreted and you mean it creeps when the clutch pedal is held to the floor while in (first) gear. In which case I'd agree that it's "clutch creep" and possibly because the hydraulics has air in it, and not allowing the clutch to fully disengage. This would also cause it to baulk when selecting a gear because the synchro would have difficulty trying to alter the speed of the gear while it is still being held/driven.
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Yes Pip. Clutch fully engaged and gear in neutral. When cold there's a noticeable load put on the idling engine and she will "creep"
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Yes Pip. Clutch fully engaged and gear in neutral. When cold there's a noticeable load put on the idling engine and she will "creep"
Well that's certainly interesting. I can only think it could be caused by oil drag between the two shafts acting a little like the torque converter in an auto. When cold, the thick oil certainly does produce a load in most cars when left in neutral and I think is one reason it is often recommended to start the car with the clutch depressed. However, in at least one car I've driven I've also noticed the opposite, where the pressure applied to the clutch is greater than the oil drag and holding the clutch in slowed the idle.
It is cold there still, yes? I've wondered about whether the oil used in the gearbox could be improved. I'm interested to hear what the cause of the creep is...
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It's disconcerting to raise the clutch to resting point from cold (in neutral) and feel the engine labour the higher the clutch gets. It didn't do that before the service, despite the lady saying it couldn't be service related.
This is now the third time I've come away from that dealership with a problem that didn't exist when I took it in :faint:
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It's disconcerting to raise the clutch to resting point from cold (in neutral) and feel the engine labour the higher the clutch gets. It didn't do that before the service, despite the lady saying it couldn't be service related.
This is now the third time I've come away from that dealership with a problem that didn't exist when I took it in :faint:
Did they change the gearbox oil at the service? I have to believe they did and if so it sounds to me like it's too thick. :scared:
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Hi Pip
There's no mention of that fluid being changed on the invoice...
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y297/ShamblesX/i30/60kservice.jpg)
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There is more to this than we know I reckon. :scared:
I'm pulling the plug on dealer service and trying an independant, first for my Getz and then the i30. Mostly for the reason that they seem to want $double this time around.
I mention this only because I'm always nervous no matter who services my cars partly because of people like you that report you seem to collect extra problems when one would expect fewer!
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Just got off the blower...
Hmm... gearbox oil was checked but not changed.
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Just off topic for a moment....
Congrats on passing the 10,000 post milestone, Shambles.... :goodjob:
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:goodjob:
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When I had my Accent I had a problem with the gear change.
It turned out to be the gear box oil, put in a very light oil, plus the linkages needed to be reset.
After that all was ok.
Also, have the idle revs changed? If they have, could this be causing the problem.
Or they have upgrade the ECU with rogue software making you go back and then they hit you with a repair bill ???
Creep in neutral -- this in my opinion means that a gear is engaged or clutch plates touching. So I wonder whether during the fluid change when they bleed the system the system wasn't bled correctly and this is causing the clutch plates not to separate.
ps 18th!!!!!!! I think you should visit on your way to/from/lunchtime and ask them to look at it sooner rather than later.
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ps 18th!!!!!!! I think you should visit on your way to/from/lunchtime and ask them to look at it sooner rather than later.
Thanks for the advice etc.
I'm now thinking about just ignoring it as I believe they have altered the clutch distancing and [gear] cable settings. I don't want that lot to touch my Fergie again if I can help it.
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gear in neutral. When cold there's a noticeable load put on the idling engine and she will "creep"
Just had another thought!!!!!
Does this mean you have to depress the clutch to start otherwise it will kangaroo, i.e. the movement you get when you try to start with the car in gear and clutch Not depressed?
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I've never started a car without depressing the clutch TBH, and I can't really try it in the morning as my driveway is on an upwards incline, but I shall get it off the drive and restart it, just to see. Good idea mate
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gear in neutral. When cold there's a noticeable load put on the idling engine and she will "creep"
Just had another thought!!!!!
Does this mean you have to depress the clutch to start otherwise it will kangaroo, i.e. the movement you get when you try to start with the car in gear and clutch Not depressed?
does this mean that your cars over there will start without depressing the clutch, ours wont start if you don't depress the clutch.
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Yeah Trish, no clutch needed to start the car, though why anyone with even an ounce of commonsense would start a car without depressing the clutch is beyond me :rolleyes:
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Yeah Trish, no clutch needed to start the car, though why anyone with even an ounce of commonsense would start a car without depressing the clutch is beyond me :rolleyes:
:confused: :-[ I used to get caught out if I got into our Nissans because Trish left them in gear and I didn't so Id try and start them without foot on the clutch occassionally with embarrassing results...
Hyundai was one of the first over here to make it so you HAD to depress the clutch to start the car (now a few other brands do it too)
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why anyone with even an ounce of commonsense would start a car without depressing the clutch is beyond me :rolleyes:
In all my 42+ years of driving I have never pressed the clutch in prior to starting the car.
I do, however, wriggly the gear stick to ensure it is in neutral.
The only drivers I'm aware of who press it in are those who have had cars which require you to do it to start and the habit is there.
Is this why you do it?
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I have always done it, despite having a multitude of cars that didn't need it. All the Scoobies had to be started with the clutch depressed.
Sent from my 1000ET
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:whsaid:
Reduces the stress on the battery & starter motor if they don't have to turn the full clutch when cranking
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why anyone with even an ounce of commonsense would start a car without depressing the clutch is beyond me :rolleyes:
Maybe they start the car...without the gearbox engaged :D :wink:
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Yeah Trish, no clutch needed to start the car, though why anyone with even an ounce of commonsense would start a car without depressing the clutch is beyond me :rolleyes:
For sure, and pages 225 and 226 of the i30 user manual instruct you to do it too.
Back on the original topic, I do think you might have an issue that won't fix itself.
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For sure, and pages 225 and 226 of the i30 user manual instruct you to do it too.
It also advises using an authorised Hyundai dealership for servicing :scared: :D
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It also advises using an authorised Hyundai dealership for servicing :scared: :D
I don't understand; I've always used authorised dealerships
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I think the point is that we are aware of the issues we have experienced using our authorised dealers, coming out with more faults than they went in with, scratches etc. :(
Sent from my 1000ET
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Absolutely, (sorry to hear about that scratch you "acquired")
I've cancelled my chat with that dealership on the 18th and will not be using them again. Decided to "see how I go" with the gear changing as this morning it was 8oC and wasn't as bad as the previous 7 days or so
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Fixed my scratch with my magic Aldi scratch removing kit, clonks have gone, me a happy bunny again :D
Sent from my 1000ET
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:whsaid:
Reduces the stress on the battery & starter motor if they don't have to turn the full clutch when cranking
I have never done it until I got the Hyundai. Not a requirement on Australian Subarus, at least until recently.
Always found just by putting my hand lightly on the gear lever, i knew where it was. And it was generally in gear because that's how I park it.
Re the stress on the battery and starter motor, I always worked on the basis that every depression of the clutch added to wear on the pressure plate fingers and the cable.
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the gearbox oil in our i30's is an oil very similar to an automatic transmission . I've thought about disconnecting the switch on my clutch pedal so i don't have to depress it to start the car. our clutch is hydraulic, not a cable set up Steve,i think that your clutch is the problem mate. IMHO. is it possible someone has given your clutch a hard time? :wink:
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They only had Fergie for 4 hours. They couldn't have thrashed the pants off it, plus, only 0.1 miles were added to the clock, which in itself suggests minimal "road testing"
Travelling back from work tonight I let her idle for a minute or so on startup, and all was fairly good, though the "creep" was still apparent when I lifted the clutch in neutral.
Just gonna live with it for now, but at least that dealership has my problem on record ...
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Creep in neutral -- this in my opinion means that a gear is engaged or clutch plates touching.
No eye, sorry, this is a misunderstanding of how the mechanics operate.
The clutch is fully engaged (foot off the pedal) so the clutch plates are touching... this can have nothing to do with the clutch. The clutch comes before the gearbox (it's mounted directly on the flywheel) and in this case it's being in neutral that (should have) disconnected the drive from the engine to the wheels, not the clutch.
So if there is some forward drive felt it can only be as I suggested that the gear oil is creating sufficient drag to transfer some torque to the output shaft. It also can't be anything to do with being "in gear" because if it was in gear then it would not creep forward but rather drive forward normally with the engine power; there are no partially-in-gear modes available. It has to be the oil, and the effect would reduce as it warms and will probably disappear in summer.
I would suspect it's a normal symptom of thick oil and cold weather and not a fault as such. If it was not brought about by an oil change then is it possible it was happening before the service and you never noticed it? I think it's natural to have a heightened awareness whenever someone's being touching our cars. :sweating:
Yeah Trish, no clutch needed to start the car, though why anyone with even an ounce of commonsense would start a car without depressing the clutch is beyond me
I guess I have to admit to having no common sense then. :-[ Until I got the i30 I never depressed the clutch to start a car but I did have a fully automated habit of ensuring neutral gear was s3lected before turning the key. Checking neutral just seemed like common sense to me. :lol:
As we have discussed in this thread, either depressing the clutch or s3lecting neutral will disconnect the engine from the wheels. One's as good as the other to me. :goodjob:
If I'm right, then a lower viscosity oil could be tried. A good synthetic would be best. Contrary to the higher viscosity numbers used for gear oil it's a similar thickness to engine oil but does not need to have the additives to control contaminents etc. We haven't discussed gear oil to any extent here but as with engine oil they are not all created equal. Manual gearboxes are usually filled for life so it doesn't seem a big deal to change it once for something potentially better than original - although I have no idea what that is. Balking synchros also point to oil that is a tad too thick.
I just thought of one other remote possibility. If the cables were adjusted so badly that (say) the first gear synchro was being pressured this could also impart some mild drive. If it was this however I would also expect you might be alerted to a slight whining noise that would disappear when the clutch was pushed in. The synchros really are a bit like a slipping clutch and could be considered a partial in-gear mode contrary to what I said above. Long shot though...
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^-- thanks for the extensive post :D
My inability to select 1st/2nd remains from cold - and no, it was never ever like that previously. This morning (6oC) I had to miss out 2nd altogether (when first driving away) as it felt like a barrier was there coming down from 1st.
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My guess is they've adjusted your gearshift linkages - badly - so that in while in neutral a gear's synchro is partially engaged leading to creep when you release the clutch. You will likely wear out that synchro if that is indeed the problem, and they don't fix it soon.
I'll stress it's a guess, with a further cop out that I've never adjusted them myself, or ever had the need to, and can't imagine how one would go about stuffing up such a seemingly simple procedure.
Does the clutch feel normal in the other gears? Take up point etc?
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^-- yup, and the symptoms disappear when she's warmed up.
I'm just gonna live with it. Anything, rather than let those guys touch her again..
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^-- yup, and the symptoms disappear when she's warmed up.
I'm just gonna live with it. Anything, rather than let those guys touch her again..
Are you with the RAC or AA?
Next time you are out, say at the shops, and you see a patrol parked up just go and ask them their opinion and see what they say.
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Thing is, the gearing system would be warmed up by then. There would be no symptoms.
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^-- yup, and the symptoms disappear when she's warmed up.
I'm just gonna live with it. Anything, rather than let those guys touch her again..
Well I wouldn't live with it undiagnosed. Take it somewhere else.
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2002: After a minor -prima facie- accident (someone bumped onto the front right wheel of my corolla) the car's front right side trembled at speeds >120km/h.
2006: After countless visits to almost every authorized toyota dealer available here, still nobody could find a problem. Nevertheless, after several allignments and their recommendations, i had spend a couple of 1.000s € for a complete wheel mount, new tires, rims etc. The problem was still there, but nobody ever verified it. So, i gave up.
2006: (visiting -for the first time- an independent guy for my annual emission check)
-"You should consider replacing your right transaxle, it's warped badly"
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-"it costs but you should replace it"
-"..."
Motivated mostly by curiosity, i decided to paid a visit to more independent repairers: all of them spotted the warped transaxle with the first glance (just one had to give the wheel a free-spin).
Conclusion: You comprehended it allready. As for me, i didn't buy the new corolla.
* I kept every receipt where my notices of the symptom are shown - toyota dealer's notices are also shown "Tested. No problem found" :lol:
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My mates ix35 has just been in for a load of recall work and one of the things was to do with clutch/gearbox.
On getting it back they too had this creeping problem, which excarbated last night to no gear selection at all. RAC out to have a look and the dealer had failed to tighten the bleed nipples properly (clutch fluid everywhere!), RAC man did his thing and all seems well (for the time being).
At the same time there was an issue with the instrument clusters which are apparently being replaced (back to 0 miles anyone :Shocked: ) and they fitted a 4WD one to a 2WD car, light in the dash when they started her up and the mechanic busy telling them to push the 4WD switch. "We don't have 4WD" "Oh dear that means we have fitted a 2WD one to a 4WD car" :scared: :scared:
Also had their annual service performed at the same time as the recall work and the RAC man casually asks why the engine coolant level in the header tank is at minimum, not a great advert for the Hy service centre in Aberdeen at all.
I think I will be going independent with the ix20 :sweating: :sweating:
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Are the ix35's over there made in the Czech factory :question:.. disappointing to hear of recalls and the service issues :sweating: :disapp: