[Shambles]

I just booked Fergie in AGAIN for more work. Noticed this morning that the aircon wasn't causing the car to surge as it should, so I turned it to the lowest setting which is normally ice cold but even after 2 minutes the air was warm. I don't normally turn the aircon on but I figured I'd give it a workout.

I checked the fuses (2 in the cab, 1 under bonnet) and they look ok, so I booked her in for next week.

In the meantime does anyone know where the compressor is? It's lunchtime here and I have time to look while it's light. I'm thinking something might not have been reconnected when they sorted my steering issue out last week.

[eye30]

I think it is located behind and to the side of the engine.

Not sure whether to the right or left side, sorry to be so vague, as I seen water under the car in that area during the "hot" weather when I've parked at home.

[Shambles]

Just had a quick ganders. Couldn't spot anything amiss, but then again I didn't know what I was looking for

She's in next Tuesday. What's the next thing to go wrong I wonder 

[Lorian]

This is of a 2.0 Petrol (of course) I presume it's similar, runs off the belt on the left side

[Shambles]

^-- Thanks, I'll have another look tomorrow lunch

[Lorian]

Having read throught the troubleshooting guide apart from checking the fuse there seems little option but visit the dealer. A loss of refriegerant appearing the most likely cause.

[Myowni30]

A garage I know that is now under a new owner got caught out doing naughty things to air-con systems. When the cars went in for service they used their pressure gauge to release the gas out of the system just enough to make sure it was still working. But within about a 4-8 weeks of the service the aircon would stop working as the pressure drops, then they would charge you £99 to top it up again and tell you that there was a small leak in the system that they had now fixed. It was a member of their own staff that noticed how many systems they were refilling that told the local news paper. That was about 6 years ago, we all got our money back.
The system just stopped working totally on my car, it would appear that the pressure sensor valve shuts down the system totally when the pressure gets low.

[Shambles]

^-- hey thanks guys.

[Dazzler]

That's a bit of a b***er steve hope it gets sorted easily for you...

[QSR]

Shambles,

There is only one single wire that connects to the  a/cond compressor. It is a power wire to activate the compressor clutch on the compressor. It is a fairly common wire that seems to be easily forgotten about when some repairs are carried out. Just check to make sure this is connected back up before taking your car back to the dealership. Having said that, your car should have been road tested after repairs to the steering system were complete and if the a/cond was not working it should have been picked up on road test.

[Shambles]

Shambles,

There is only one single wire that connects to the  a/cond compressor. It is a power wire to activate the compressor clutch on the compressor. It is a fairly common wire that seems to be easily forgotten about when some repairs are carried out. Just check to make sure this is connected back up before taking your car back to the dealership. Having said that, your car should have been road tested after repairs to the steering system were complete and if the a/cond was not working it should have been picked up on road test.

Thanks for the input. Sounds like I'd have to get underneath the car, but it's snowing right now.

The A/C was tested for leaks and refrigeration (see the service schedule scan I posted in Gen Dis) but that was probably done before the steering rattle was fixed, so you could be right about the cable.

Thanks

[Shambles]

Well, well, well.


"It needed regassing sir, and unfortunately that's not a warranty item"

"But it was fine when I brought it in, and passed the leak and refrigeration test - you marked it so on the checklist. Are you saying it lost its gas between being serviced and me first noticing it?"

"Yes, it can happen anytime".

Then after being beckoned to come over, a young engineer tried explaining to me how aircon systems work, and how Hyundai only fill to the minimum amount at the factory, and how gas leaks show up as light coloured powder on the engine frames, and how ultraviolet light is used for an active leak test. Boring, I know all that.

"Bit spooky", I said, "that after 21 months ownership I lose my gas after you have carried out a steering rattle repair. Within a few hours of you doing that!?"

Then came the killer...


"Are you saying I'm lying sir?" Said the young lady.

"No, I'm saying either your test procedures are faulty or your guys inadvertantly displaced something like the power line to the magnetic compressor clutch, or similar. Oh, sorry, you said the gas had gone didn't you. All gone. Overnight. I still don't understand how it passed your refrigeration check."

<prepare to laugh, here. I did>

Engineery type then said "the temperature in the workshop is higher than outside, so the pressure in the system would read higher, meaning it could easily have looks pressurised".

Shambles looked and raised an eyebrow.

"You really expect me to believe that?" (those were my exact words)


Now get this...

I then said "I guess this is leading upto you presenting me with a bill for the regassing?"


Answer...


"Well the charge is £57 but based on what you've said we'll waive that."

"Based on what I've said?"    "What if I hadn't said anything?"


So I took my keys and left. I think they know I won't be going back.

[bumpkin]

Bloody rogues.............well done for standing up to them mate!!

[Lorian]

my god, idiots.

Does it work OK now?

The one cable to the compressor is easy to see, I noticed it by the bottom of the belt on the top left of the compressor while I was messing with the lights again today.

[Shambles]

Seems to work fine, though a bit concerned that there is no" thump" when engaged... you know the feeling, when the extra boost is delivered to compensate. Maybe that's because they said they'd had it running for 30 mins in the workshop before giving me the keys.

I'll see tomorrow.

Also I noticed the foul smell has gone. There was always a stink in the cabin for a short while when it was turned off. I kinda got used to expecting it. Not tonight there wasn't.

[eye30]

And I won't be using that garage either!

I've had my car longer than you and mine is ok.

Just checked the schedule and there is an item - Check AC system for leaks and cooloing - Mine was ticked.

As you say yours was ticked then I think they are talking b*ll*cks.

[Lorian]

Also I noticed the foul smell has gone. There was always a stink in the cabin for a short while when it was turned off. I kinda got used to expecting it. Not tonight there wasn't.

Thats bacteria build-up. The way to avoid that is to run the aircon on warm for a while before parking up to dry the system out.  When you already have it you can get a spray can of stuff that you set of in the car (bit like a bomb) when your not in it, with the engine/aircon running for 20 mins and it cleans it out. They are about a tenner friom halfords, or about £1.50 from lidl usually on offer about twice a year.

[QSR]

Shambles,

I have seen this hundreds of times ( with Fords and Toyota's) - your situation with your i30 is identical.

Firstly, answer me this......

did you check to see if the a/cond clutch wire was connected or not?

If, it was dis-connected, please dis-regard the following.

If, it was connected and they DID need to re-gas your system, you need to get them to find and fix the gas leak because a/cond systems are "sealed units". In Australia ( and probably in most contries now ) it is illegal for an a/cond system to be re-gassed without first fixing the leak, because it is an ozone depleting gas.

Lorian may be right about the bacteria build up as I have seen this hundreds of times also.

I am suspecting ( and would probably put money on it ) that you have a very, very slow gas leak from somewhere in your a/cond system.
I will go further to pin-point that your a/cond evaporator ( under the dash - inside the heater box ) has either a very fine hairline crack on one of its pipes or a very tiny pin hole somewhere on its pipework or welds.
It will probably be leaking that slow that not even a gas leak detector unit would detect it, and you would not get a black light into it unless you removed the heater box, dismantled it to remove the evaporator, and by this time you would see the leak because the leaking area would be covered in a/cond oil & dust and, it will be the bacteria attached to the dust which is attracted to the oil that you are smelling ( it stinks ). I have seen the smell go away ( for some unknown reason ) once the systems were re-gassed also.

Why did the a/cond suddenly stop working ?

(a) a/cond system has a very, very slow leak
(b) a/cond system has a "low pressure cut-out switch" meaning that it would stop the complete system from functioning under a certain pressure to prevent compressor failure/damage.

They do not check your system with a leak detector when servicing your car - all they would do is check a/cond belt,then check if the a/cond light was coming on and the air in cabin was getting cold ( hopefully ). Most of this would be done on road test.

So, the a/cond system probably was working when they did their road test/test??.....but ONLY JUST I might add.....and by the time you collected your car, it was just enough time for the a/cond to lose that little bit extra gas ( remember it has been leaking very, very slowly for quite some time - probably since new ). So when you picked up your car it had leaked enough to activate the "low pressure cut out switch".
There is always a "moment in time" when things fail.

Maybe, they did not do anything wrong? ( I am not standing up for them by the way - just looking at both sides of the coin )

Maybe, they were not aware that the a/cond system was about to fail because even if they did/do use a leak detector - it more than likely would not detect the leak because the leak is so small & slow.

The point they made about only a little gas is added from factory is RUBBISH.
Same goes for different workshop temperatures - UTTER RUBBISH.

Well, they have got your a/cond working again now, BUT, one thing for sure is, the smell WILL come back and the system WILL eventually leak its gas back out in probably the same amount of time it took to leak this time ( from new ).

A/cond systems don't lose gas without having a leak!

Take your car back to them or another dealership and get them to FIX THE LEAK. If they can not find a leak, tell them to look towards the evaporator ( due to the smell ). If they do not want to do this - write a letter to Hyundai about it.

[Shambles]

Thanks for the comprehensive input QSR. I meant to check the power cable to the clutch but the weather has been so extreme here that I missed the opportunity. Had I known that I could check this without raising the car, I would have done it before I took her in I guess.

The dealership left me with a "keep an eye on it" recommendation. I'm not planning on reusing their facilities except for this aircon issue.

One thing I'd like to ask around, is... my aircon used to cause extra boost to be applied to the engine when activated, presumably to compensate for the additional load imposed when the compressor goes online. That isn't happening now although the refrigeration does seem to be happening. It doesn't, however, seem too keen to remove condensation from within the cabin when previously it did; that said, the weather's been atrocious here and it's very damp.

I shall be "keeping an eye" on the whole thing, and I take your comments re: slow leaks as advice gratefully received.

Cheers

[bumpkin]

Not sure about the diesel but on the petrol you get a noticeable drop in power when AC on, not any worse than the Subaru, just enough to be irritating..........

[QSR]

Thanks for the comprehensive input QSR. I meant to check the power cable to the clutch but the weather has been so extreme here that I missed the opportunity. Had I known that I could check this without raising the car, I would have done it before I took her in I guess.

The dealership left me with a "keep an eye on it" recommendation. I'm not planning on reusing their facilities except for this aircon issue.



One thing I'd like to ask around, is... my aircon used to cause extra boost to be applied to the engine when activated, presumably to compensate for the additional load imposed when the compressor goes online.

( Yes, you are right - the Idle Control Solenoid ( ICS ) does this which in turn is controlled by the engine computer ).

That isn't happening now although the refrigeration does seem to be happening. It doesn't, however, seem too keen to remove condensation from within the cabin when previously it did;

( sounds like the ventilation system is not set to "recirc" )

shall be "keeping an eye" on the whole thing, and I take your comments re: slow leaks as advice gratefully received.

Cheers

[eye30]

I've been using my AC alot this year due to the damp.

I was expecting a drop in revs at idle, as have had on other cars which were petrol, i.e. at idle - no AC then put AC on, but none on the diesel.

Is this normal for diesel or do I have problem?

[Lorian]

My aircon works fine, and I haven't noticed any perceptible difference in revs with air on or off. When then engiine is warm it idles around 790rpm +/- 10rpm appx.

I'll double check it tomorrow though.

[Shambles]

My recently regassed aircon is going back in as it's become totally ineffective, obvious now with the recent hot weather. I suspect a leak, although the magnetic clutch is still activating

[Shambles]

Pah. Needs a new evaporator

[Lorian]

Woohoo warranty 

[Myowni30]

Pah. Needs a new evaporator

Sounds like it needs Life Support 

[Shambles]

Pah. Needs a new evaporator

Sounds like it needs Life Support 

I said EVAPORATOR not INCUBATOR