[Keeny1979]

Does anyone have any ideas on this,

We changed the wheels on My lads 2016 i30 to wheels from a Kona as he needed tyres, both sets of wheels have 433mhz tpms sensors in and I have read the codes from the new wheels and input them into the ECU by obd relearn using an autel its600 tool.

But the light keeps coming back on with an auto relearn failure and RF channel failure on all channels, all sensors are confirmed as stored in the ECU.

Does anyone know if I need the exact sensors of should Kona ones work?

Thanks

[Shambles]

Hi

Have you driven the car since you updated the ECU?

[Keeny1979]

Yes it's used daily, 20 miles a day, have also tried clearing the code just comes back

[TerryT]

@Keeny1979.  It is possible that your Autel ITS600 TPMS tool only reprograms with their proprietary Autel TPMS MX-sensors.  If so, it is unlikely your Kona wheels have that brand sensor fitted.

You may like to enquire about this from your seller or from a local Autel distributor.  Please let us know the answer for our forum knowledge bank.

[Keeny1979]

I have done it so i have read the codes from the continental sensors in the kona wheels and uploaded them into the tpms ecu, im not trying to program the sensor itself as like you say the autel will only program mx sensors, this has worked as I can see them stored.

[TerryT]

I have done it so i have read the codes from the continental sensors in the kona wheels and uploaded them into the tpms ecu, im not trying to program the sensor itself as like you say the autel will only program mx sensors

Okay, thanks for the clarification.  I was recalling something I'd read or heard from many years ago that Autel TPMS tool work with Autel MX-sensors, but I now know that is not the whole story.

I will put on my thinking cap again.

[Keeny1979]

The only thing I can think of it the sensors itself as the Kona ones do not read when selecting the car as an i30 on the autel and and the i30 ones will not read if I select the Kona on the autel

[Keeny1979]

[TerryT]

@keenly1979.  I just had a quick look at Amazon/eBay sale sites for Autel ITS600 tools.  I mistakenly first thought it was one of those average quality, limited functionality generic hand-held scan tools with some tpms capability...but it is a fairly high-priced, dedicated tmps tool ($850~$950 AUD) which has made me revise my thinking about its capabilities.

Yeah, in the mist of time I had forgotten that "programming" a sensor and "relearning" it are too vastly different but often incorrectly interchanged terms.  D'oh!

EDIT. Just saw your three posts above mine.  Will try to think about it while having a late lunch!

[Keeny1979]

Yea it's not a cheap machine, I have also checked they have been input correctly using my OBD2 scanner.

I think at some point over the coming days I will put the old wheels back on and obd relearn them see if that works, if it does I can only presume it's incompatible sensors

[TerryT]

...I think at some point over the coming days I will put the old wheels back on and obd relearn them see if that works, if it does I can only presume it's incompatible sensors

That sounds a plan, a process of elimination. 

[TerryT]

It has been about a decade since I was seriously using my TPMS tool so I am rusty with my thinking, sorry.

My first thoughts were:
(1)  the Continental sensors in the Koni wheels have to be programmed to the Hyundai i30 to get new sensor IDs;
(2)  you enter the i30 details on your TPMS tool (make/model/year), run the TPMS tool around the car and record the new Continental ID's; and
(3)  you carry out a sensor relearn on the vehicle so the ECU can recognise the new sensor IDs and their positions on the vehicle.

However, you thought you didn't need to programme the sensors, just relearn them to the i30.  You said: "...i have read the codes from the continental sensors in the kona wheels and uploaded them into the tpms ecu, im not trying to program the sensor itself..."   I am wondering while the TPMS tool showed that you uploaded the Continental sensor codes/IDs whether that is the same thing as the ECU accepted that data as being ok to proceed (and that is why you got a fail)? 

BUT, I had thought one only needed to programme aftermarket programmable/universal/blank sensors that have not been programmed before and presumably your Continental/Koni sensors were programmed when fitted to the Koni, so they aren't blank anymore.  This means what I was thinking above is wrong UNLESS when you swap sensors fitted (and programmed) to one make of car over to another make of car you have to programme the sensors to the second car.  But, your tool will only programme Autel MX-sensors.

You said: "The only thing I can think of it the sensors itself as the Kona ones do not read when selecting the car as an i30 on the autel..."  That may be a telling clue because as afaik you should have been able to select your i30 details on the Tool and then scan the (Continental) sensors and record them on the tool's display for relearn.  If you cannot do that, it suggests sensor incompatibility for whatever reason.

My old head is starting to hurt.  I need to find and read my tool's manual.

[Keeny1979]

Well I changed the front wheels to the old ones and uploaded the sensor Id's into the tpms ECU and they work fine, only errors now are for the rears so must be incompatible sensors, so will order new ones to try

[TerryT]

Well I changed the front wheels to the old ones and uploaded the sensor Id's into the tpms ECU and they work fine, only errors now are for the rears so must be incompatible sensors, so will order new ones to try

Thanks for the update, appreciated.  So, you removed the Kona front wheels (with Continental sensors) and refitted your oem i30 front wheels (with oem sensors) and successfully uploaded those oem front sensor IDs to the ECU.  Yes?  That I can follow, as with a bit of relearning with the Tool, you basically restored the fronts to what was working before you started playing with the Kona wheels.

But I got lost a little when you said: "...only errors now are for the rears so must be incompatible sensors".  Mate, would you mind clarifying what that meant.

(You see, my first thought was that did the same thing with the rears as you did with the fronts (removed Kona & refitted i30 wheels) but then couldn't relearn the rear sensors to the ECU...but they are the oem wheels/sensors you were running before the swapsies).

[Surferdude]

Well I changed the front wheels to the old ones and uploaded the sensor Id's into the tpms ECU and they work fine, only errors now are for the rears so must be incompatible sensors, so will order new ones to try

Thanks for the update, appreciated.  So, you removed the Kona front wheels (with Continental sensors) and refitted your oem i30 front wheels (with oem sensors) and successfully uploaded those oem front sensor IDs to the ECU.  Yes?  That I can follow, as with a bit of relearning with the Tool, you basically restored the fronts to what was working before you started playing with the Kona wheels.

But I got lost a little when you said: "...only errors now are for the rears so must be incompatible sensors".  Mate, would you mind clarifying what that meant.

(You see, my first thought was that did the same thing with the rears as you did with the fronts (removed Kona & refitted i30 wheels) but then couldn't relearn the rear sensors to the ECU...but they are the oem wheels/sensors you were running before the swapsies).

I simply read it as he didn't change back the rears so they're still showing errors. By doing that he maintained a "control" set.

[TerryT]

Well I changed the front wheels to the old ones and uploaded the sensor Id's into the tpms ECU and they work fine, only errors now are for the rears so must be incompatible sensors, so will order new ones to try

But I got lost a little when you said: "...only errors now are for the rears so must be incompatible sensors".  Mate, would you mind clarifying what that meant.


I simply read it as he didn't change back the rears so they're still showing errors. By doing that he maintained a "control" set.

Aha, thank you Surferdude for an explanation that is likely what has happened.

I became too narrow focused after Keeny1979 previously said "...I will put the old wheels back on and obd relearn them see if that works..." By "wheels" (without any qualification) I assumed he meant the front and rear wheels and I didn't think past that point.  D'oh.   

All good.

[Keeny1979]

Adding closure to this, we got a new set of sensors, had them fitted then I programmed them in and everything is working again, so it seems there are different variations of the 433mhz sensors and you need the correct ones for your car

[TerryT]

Adding closure to this, we got a new set of sensors, had them fitted then I programmed them in and everything is working again, so it seems there are different variations of the 433mhz sensors and you need the correct ones for your car

Glad to hear that you have sorted out this frustrating problem and you now have the Kona wheels with working sensors fitted to the i30.

Would you mind sharing what brand of sensors you bought? 

You mentioned that you "programmed" the sensors in to the i30, and presumably you then relearned them to the i30's OBD2.  Yes?   I was only curious about the programming part as I understood that your TPMS tool (Autel ITS600) can only program Autel's proprietary MX-sensors.

You mentioned: "...it seems there are different variations of the 433mhz sensors and you need the correct ones for your car".  That first surprised me a little because I thought all 433kHz sensors were the same, but I remembered that TPMS tools work with 99% of available sensors on the market.  Were you referring to the Continental sensors on the Kona wheels as being the different variation 433kHz sensor? 

Would appreciate your answers to these three questions as it would help the forum's knowledge bank of TPMS mysteries.

Cheers,   

[Keeny1979]

The new ones were Durosense DS056HYU-4 £67 for 4 from eBay, yes the autel will only program mx sensors, but you don't need to program the sensors themselves, you just read the sensor Id's and program them into the cars tpms ecu

[TerryT]

The new ones were Durosense DS056HYU-4 £67 for 4 from eBay, yes the autel will only program mx sensors, but you don't need to program the sensors themselves, you just read the sensor Id's and program them into the cars tpms ecu

Thanks for the information, much appreciated.  Now knowing the brand you bought makes me to assume that they are sensors pre-programmed for Hyundai (or Asian) vehicles, which is something I didn’t know at my last post.  (I had wrongly assumed from your posts that you bought aftermarket programmable/blank sensors that needed programming).

Presumably you ran your TPMS Tool around the i30 to activate (or wake up) the new sensors so their ID’s and locations were read by the Tool, but then you said “...you just read the sensor Id's and program them into the cars tpms ecu.”

Again, it’s the use of that word “program” in that context that causes some confusion and I am not trying to be pedantic.  I will often contribute to posts about TPMS but it is useful if people are talking the same ‘language’.  For those new to the subject, in TPMS-land there is Program and there is Relearn functions and they are two distinctly different things.

Aftermarket sensors that are sold as blank/programmable/universal sensors need to be programmed with a TPMS Tool to a specific vehicle (by brand/model/year) before you can transfer their information to the vehicle’s ECU…and I now believe Keeny1979's new sensors were pre-programmed ones, so all good there.  But, AFAIK, once sensors are programmed and the Tool reads their ID’s and locations on the vehicle, the sensors then have to be relearned -not programmed- to the vehicle’s ECU so it knows this information. 

Mate, if I am wrong, please let me know.