[rustynutz]

Queensland is looking more & more like a Police State with this sort of bullshit "reform" 

Who's next, black people, gays, Muslims? 

[Surferdude]

Are you worried they'll stop you visiting?

[rustynutz]

You should be worried, I hear they will be targeting geriatric surfies next... 

[Surferdude]

I'm not worried.

I WOULD be worried if they did nothing.

Fortunately your pollies/police are taking action, too.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/state-politics/raids-send-bikies-a-message-as-police-vow-they-wont-tolerate-gang-violence/story-e6frgczx-1226737061683

[rustynutz]

You're missing the point, Trev....They (the Queensland Government) are singling out a particular group and wanting to deny them their legal rights.

[Surferdude]

You're missing the point, Trev....They (the Queensland Government) are singling out a particular group and wanting to deny them their legal rights.

No. I'm not.
They have forfeited their "legal " rights with their actions.
Besides, they'll still have their day in court.

[rustynutz]

So you wouldn't complain then if you were denied bail for no other reason that you were a member of the i30 owners club?
I say bullshit! 

[Aussie Keith]

As soon as we start hoarding firearms, dealing drugs, keeping big piles of cash in fortified premises, participating in drive by shootings, bashings and other thuggery, I expect we will deserve some special attention from the state as well. What "social club" does this?

Many of these guys have form for serious crime. They freely associate with criminals in what is clearly a criminal organisation. I reckon its fair enough under the circumstances.

[Surferdude]

The i30 Owners Club doesn't have a meth lab out back of its clubrooms, nor a stash of high powered illegal weapons, nor openly say, "the laws of the land don't apply to us, nor go around fighting pitched battles on atourist strip in front of and all around law-abiding families, nor bash someone to death in Sydney airport.

Your analogy is ridiculous.

[Aussie Keith]

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/criminal-bikie-gangs-boost-numbers-with-young-muslim-and-eastern-european-recruits/story-fnihsrf2-1226733840346

Hmmmmm.

Let me qualify this observation by saying this is not intended to be a racist discussion, but I think it indicates how these organisations target the marginalised when recruiting. Turns out not all members of these organisations even have bikes these days. They all have criminal associations though.

[Phil №❶]

keeping big piles of cash in fortified premises

That's not against the law, I wish I had a big pile of money and a fortified premesis. 

As far as being denied bail, I presume it was decided on the basis that they are not likely to appear in court, as they openly consider themselves excluded from the laws of the land.

[Aussie Keith]

keeping big piles of cash in fortified premises

That's not against the law, I wish I had a big pile of money and a fortified premesis. 

As far as being denied bail, I presume it was decided on the basis that they are not likely to appear in court, as they openly consider themselves excluded from the laws of the land.

Correct. The big piles of cash are being seized as proceeds of crime since there is no way to legitimately explain how they come to exist. A good day at the races perhaps?? That was an old favorite at one time.

[rustynutz]

The i30 Owners Club doesn't have a meth lab out back of its clubrooms, nor a stash of high powered illegal weapons, nor openly say, "the laws of the land don't apply to us, nor go around fighting pitched battles on atourist strip in front of and all around law-abiding families, nor bash someone to death in Sydney airport.

Your analogy is ridiculous.

No more than yours.....How do you know what some of our members get up to?   

[Surferdude]

The i30 Owners Club doesn't have a meth lab out back of its clubrooms, nor a stash of high powered illegal weapons, nor openly say, "the laws of the land don't apply to us, nor go around fighting pitched battles on atourist strip in front of and all around law-abiding families, nor bash someone to death in Sydney airport.

Your analogy is ridiculous.

No more than yours.....How do you know what some of our members get up to?   

Umm!
I'm not drawing an analogy. Just stating facts.
Prett stupid suggesting even the possibilty our members as a group get up to those antics.
In fact, you have done us a disservice by even mentioning the i30 forum in this context.

[beerman]

Unfortunately they have 2 decades of soft Labor Magistrates appointments who they won't sack. So they have to 'guide' them in the right way to do things.

There is compelling case law from a higher court that dictates that someone who assaults police by spitting should go to jail unless extenuating circumstances exist (and in that case old mate had some fairly extenuating circumstances himself, which the Judge rejected)..

What do Magistrates do, find new ways not to send people to Jail.

Most OMCG either have appalling criminal histories and/or are in a show cause situation having committed further offences whilst on bail. Either way the law dictates they should be denied bail....

What we really need to do is hold Magistrates accountable for poor decision making.

What I would do is reform the Bail Act denying bail to persons who have committed further like indictable offences, have committed any offence whilst on bail,  have previously breached bail or have committed an offence punishable by more than 15 years in jail.

[AlanHo]

The notoriety of your biker gangs is well know here in the UK - our Hells Angels are pussy cats in comparison.

The question of bail arises only when someone has been arrested for an alleged crime on the promise that they will return to have their day in court.

If you are dealing with known criminals who are unlikely to attend court - and it is known that your biker gangsters have form in this regard - the only way the authorities can ensure that they have their day in court is to not allow bail after their arrest.   

I can see no other solution and applaud your authorities for having the common sense and balls to take this action.  I wish our courts would do likewise with some of our terrorists, thugs and rapists who are granted bail because we are frightened of the race implications - only for them to offend again and again.

[Lester]

A little Draconian this 'No Bail for bikes in Qld.'   I doubt it will happen carte blanchein New South Wales, the NSW Bail Act, gives everybody the presumption of bail.  Of course there are provisos, like interference with witnesses, flight risk, likliehood of reoffending etc.  In such cases bail determinations are made by the Police Officer doing the charging/and or the Courts.

I was just watching the TV News, in Victoria today, the Army assisted Victoria Police in removing some heavy vehicles from a Bikies establishment.  Strange they used Army equipment and not civilian contractors.   It must have been approved by the Federal Government, i.e. the Minister of Defence.

[Keith]

So is a "Bikie" distinctly defined from a "Motorcyclist" in Australia?
If so, how?
Is it the wearing of colours, badges, tattoo's or a general demeanour?
Is it only having the ability to speak in single syllables or carrying a weapon?
What clearly defines a weapon?

I'm not aware of how big a deal "Bikies" are in Australia but here there are many many decent people riding motorbikes of all types, in colours, with badges on and tattoo's and even looking like they have a bad attitude....

But they contribute to lots of charities and in general are well behaved.

Actually when you get to see most of them with helmets off they are well spoken, respectable members of society paying taxes with families etc....

How will the Law agencies establish the real risks to society from those "playing out a role" from their youth?

I'd also urge caution.... Who's next for this sort of action?

[Doggie 1]

Law enforcement bodies are continually updating their intel on OMCGs and know who are associate members and who are badged members.
The full members make themselves easy to identify as they openly wear the "1%" badge which signifies that they are outlaw and do not conform to the laws that govern the other 99%.
There is a huge difference between a 6'4" tattooed man mountain who just likes to ride motorbikes - he's a biker.
Bikies are members of OMCGs and are a part of a criminal organisation.

[Surferdude]

So is a "Bikie" distinctly defined from a "Motorcyclist" in Australia?
If so, how?
Is it the wearing of colours, badges, tattoo's or a general demeanour?
Is it only having the ability to speak in single syllables or carrying a weapon?
What clearly defines a weapon?

I'm not aware of how big a deal "Bikies" are in Australia but here there are many many decent people riding motorbikes of all types, in colours, with badges on and tattoo's and even looking like they have a bad attitude....

But they contribute to lots of charities and in general are well behaved.

Actually when you get to see most of them with helmets off they are well spoken, respectable members of society paying taxes with families etc....

How will the Law agencies establish the real risks to society from those "playing out a role" from their youth?

I'd also urge caution.... Who's next for this sort of action?

Keith, I've had bikies working for me over the years, including a couple who were members of the "gangs" currently under serious observation. In general they were good guys but they all told me the same thing. They had to "toe the gang line" or else. Oh. And they quite openly bragged about the fact that things like their Christmas rally for kids were just publicity stunts arranged to get them some good press for a change.
But if you were here and saw the issues, I'm sure you'd understand why these actions are considered necessary by several State Governments.This is the most recent.

http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2013/09/30/459079_crime-and-court-news.html

I can't find the footage but it shows literally dozens of them brawling around patrons outside a family restaurant.
The police regularly raid their homes and haunts, netting drug labs, major drug stashes, virtual armories of automatic weapons and sometimes six figure bundles of cash.

The law is aimed at those one percenters who not only defy our laws but refuse to co-operate with any police investigations and often don't turn up for court appearances for crimes they have committed whilst out on bail for earlier offences.
Oh!
I should say "alleged" offences.
As Aussie Keith said, any government which tried to abuse these powers would soon find itself out of office.
I can say this. As a kid growing up on the Gold Coast I loved the place. It's still my spiritual home.
But I won't be going back there any time soon.

And beerman is right. Our judiciary has been soft on them for too long. They leave us little option but to introduce laws forcing the judiciary to do the job the general public expects of them.
Our police cop all sorts of crap whilst doing their jobs and again th eoffenders generally get off with a good behaviour bond and (maybe) community service, which the figures show, amny never bother turning up for but don't get punished for it.

[rustynutz]

As Aussie Keith said, any government which tried to abuse these powers would soon find itself out of office.

Yeah right, you only have to see the apathy on this forum to the gradual erosion of peoples rights to know there would hardly be a peep out of most people.
Witness the recent anti association laws, nobody gave a sh*t cos' they reckoned they wouldn't be affected by it... 

[rustynutz]

There is a huge difference between a 6'4" tattooed man mountain who just likes to ride motorbikes - he's a biker.

I much rather the term "motorcyclist", biker is so American...... 

[Doggie 1]

I can live with that. 

[rustynutz]

I also like "motorcycle enthusiast" 

[Doggie 1]

So do I when the cat cap fits.

[Ugly Mongrel]

Why not just endorse the existing laws? Just saying

[rustynutz]

Qld motorcyclists fight 'unfair' laws
October 12, 2013
 

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2013/10/12/14/46/qld-flags-laws-to-keep-bikies-in-jail

[rustynutz]

http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2013/10/12/459871_crime-and-court-news.html

[beerman]

So is a "Bikie" distinctly defined from a "Motorcyclist" in Australia?
If so, how?
Is it the wearing of colours, badges, tattoo's or a general demeanour?
Is it only having the ability to speak in single syllables or carrying a weapon?
What clearly defines a weapon?

I'm not aware of how big a deal "Bikies" are in Australia but here there are many many decent people riding motorbikes of all types, in colours, with badges on and tattoo's and even looking like they have a bad attitude....

But they contribute to lots of charities and in general are well behaved.

Actually when you get to see most of them with helmets off they are well spoken, respectable members of society paying taxes with families etc....

How will the Law agencies establish the real risks to society from those "playing out a role" from their youth?

I'd also urge caution.... Who's next for this sort of action?

Keith, I've had bikies working for me over the years, including a couple who were members of the "gangs" currently under serious observation. In general they were good guys but they all told me the same thing. They had to "toe the gang line" or else. Oh. And they quite openly bragged about the fact that things like their Christmas rally for kids were just publicity stunts arranged to get them some good press for a change.
But if you were here and saw the issues, I'm sure you'd understand why these actions are considered necessary by several State Governments.This is the most recent.

http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2013/09/30/459079_crime-and-court-news.html

I can't find the footage but it shows literally dozens of them brawling around patrons outside a family restaurant.
The police regularly raid their homes and haunts, netting drug labs, major drug stashes, virtual armories of automatic weapons and sometimes six figure bundles of cash.

The law is aimed at those one percenters who not only defy our laws but refuse to co-operate with any police investigations and often don't turn up for court appearances for crimes they have committed whilst out on bail for earlier offences.
Oh!
I should say "alleged" offences.
As Aussie Keith said, any government which tried to abuse these powers would soon find itself out of office.
I can say this. As a kid growing up on the Gold Coast I loved the place. It's still my spiritual home.
But I won't be going back there any time soon.

And beerman is right. Our judiciary has been soft on them for too long. They leave us little option but to introduce laws forcing the judiciary to do the job the general public expects of them.
Our police cop all sorts of crap whilst doing their jobs and again th eoffenders generally get off with a good behaviour bond and (maybe) community service, which the figures show, amny never bother turning up for but don't get punished for it.

You forget to mention their fellow enthusiasts who thought it would be a good idea to call more enthusiasts to dress up in their enthusiast uniform  converge en mass at the local watch house in an attempt to gain their arrested friends freedom.......

[Aussie Keith]

http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2013/10/12/459871_crime-and-court-news.html

Fair enough. Lets call them what they are.

I'm unclear why a motorcycling enthusiast, bikers or anyone for that matter would contemplate associating with a criminal organisation, and then complain about getting tarred with the same brush when it goes bad.  If I were the motorcycling organisation's peak body I'd be distancing legit recreational mototcycling enthusiasts, ie, bikers as far as possible from the criminal organisations.

On rights: http://www.dfat.gov.au/facts/democratic_rights_freedoms.html

This is a discussion that polarises opinion. What is a right? We in Australia don't have a "bill of rights" as the Americans do but we do have the notion of "democratic rights and freedoms". One of these is the freedom of assembly. This has been tinkered with by governments for years, in Qld, most notably by Joh in days gone by. However, if you have to balance the freedom of assembly of a group of thugs vs the safety of the general public, what is the correct course of action? Remember this most recent action in Queensland was sparked by known gang members brawling in a family restaurant and that brawl spilling out into the street. And then laying siege to the local police station. That bystanders and passersby weren't hurt is a good thing, but this happens frequently in and around the Gold Coast. Don't forget police have to deal with this stuff. On the Gold Coast police are more frequently being shot or shot at and recently fatally wounded in the line of duty. In the past a pedestrian was shot walking down the street and another fatally shot in his car at lights, apparently completely at random. What should we as a community do about that?

Is that OK that they can terrorise the community like this?

So cry me a river about protecting the rights of those who consider themselves above the law. I'd like to see them all off the streets for good.  Meanwhile, the Gold Coast remains a no go zone for me as well.