is diesel just diesel wherever you go?

ivana · **June 23, 2009, 12:23:03**

im a new diesel owner-

and i got to wondering is diesel just diesel? is it all the same quality wherever you go?

Dazzler · **Reply #1: June 23, 2009, 12:47:22**

Hi Ivana,

Welcome to the club.. In some parts of Sydney and a few other places you can get Caltex Premium Diesel (think it's called Vortex) which our member Lakes reckons gives noticeably better performance and creates less froth when filling so it's easier to fill to the brim.

There seems to be a bit of a consensus that Standard BP diesel is better than some other brands (some have also found Shell to be a good drop) .. with slightly more responsive performance and in some cases better economy.. (I will edit this post and add links to other threads on this topic if I can find any with the search function)

EDIT: see this thread also (amongst other) https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,2811.0.html

michael_i30 · **Reply #2: June 24, 2009, 04:28:52**

Quote from: Dazz on June 23, 2009, 12:47:22

Hi Ivana,

Welcome to the club.. In some parts of Sydney and a few other places you can get Caltex Premium Diesel (think it's called Vortex) which our member Lakes reckons gives noticeably better performance and creates less froth when filling so it's easier to fill to the brim.

Just filled up today for the first time with Caltex Premium Diesel. It's now available at my local servo on the Central Coast.

Definitely less froth when filling however I still did the trickle feed. I reckon it halved the time to fill as I always top it right up. Not sure about this but I reckon it was a different colour. More yellow than normal ??

Quote from: Dazz on June 23, 2009, 12:47:22

There seems to be a bit of a consensus that Standard BP diesel is better than some other brands (some have also found Shell to be a good drop) .. with slightly more responsive performance and in some cases better economy.. (I will edit this post and add links to other threads on this topic if I can find any with the search function)

EDIT: see this thread also (amongst other) https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,2811.0.html

I've not used BP yet. Shell I've used a few times and I reckon when you put your foot down or take off quickly it creates more smoke than the Caltex diesel.

Will be interesting to see if the premium diesel makes much difference. I normally hover around 5.6 L/100KM which I'm really happy with. Anything better than that will be great.

camerooney · **Reply #3: June 24, 2009, 09:44:29**

G'day mate,

Not all diesel is the same. Its different for most major servos.

At the moment I've got 1/2 tank of Shell Diesel from Coles and the car isn't running as well as it has done. Noisier and slightly less responsive. And also blowing a puff of smoke here and there on cold starts. Which its never done before.

I could tell when I was filling it up, because it was frothing up a lot more than what it usually does, and had quite a strong smell to it. Almost as if it wasn't as processed as it should have been.

In my experience I'd rate the below from worst to best:
Mobil
Woolies / Caltex
Shell
BP

BP being the best. I noticed a huge difference when I filled up with BP last time engine was a lot smoother, more responsive and even a bit quieter.
Just a shame that the closest BP to me is about 45mins away. I'm heading up that way this weekend though so I'm going to fill up when I get the chance.

If you have a look at these properties (pinched from another forum) you can see the comparison. Cetane levels being the key I think.

PROPERTIES -[Shell]- -[Caltex]- -[BP]-
Sulfur -[8]- -[<=10]- -[<=10]-
Flash Point -[79]- -[>=61]- -[No Data]-
Density -[0.82 – 0.85]- -[0.82-0.86]- -[0.82-0.85]-
Cetane -[49]- -[>=46]- -[51, >=46]-
Lubricity -[400]- -[<=460]- [<=460]-

I've not had the chance to fill up with premium/vortex diesel yet but next time I'm in a larger town/city I'm keen to find a servo which stocks it.

Different diesels don't affect older diesel engines as much (hilux for example) they can just about run on anything...hehe
But newer more refined engines you seem to notice the difference a lot more.

Cheers,
Cam

Dazzler · **Reply #4: June 24, 2009, 11:07:26**

Hi Cam..

Thanks for that... Unfortunately BP is always a few cents dearer down here but might be worth it ..

For those new members who don't know him Cam used to have a nice white i30 (which was actually bright yellow - a lemon

)

So now he drives a VW Golf like his mum and dad...

But we still like him...

ivana · **Reply #5: June 25, 2009, 21:46:15**

yeah, budget constraints meant i had to shy away from the VW dealership when buying my car... otherwise i may well have bought a Golf r32

MRH130 · **Reply #6: June 25, 2009, 22:57:44**

The other thing to remember, of course, is to only use diesel from a major oil company site (i.e. not a Budget Bill's Discount Gas or a 7/11 or something. An actual oil company is the way to go.

And no biodiesel!

ivana · **Reply #7: June 25, 2009, 23:40:56**

Quote from: MRH130 on June 25, 2009, 22:57:44

The other thing to remember, of course, is to only use diesel from a major oil company site (i.e. not a Budget Bill's Discount Gas or a 7/11 or something. An actual oil company is the way to go.

And no biodiesel!

yeah i knew that budget diesel is very much like budget petrol: somewhat dodgy and can lead to a car's extended holiday at the mechanic...

MRH130 · **Reply #8: June 26, 2009, 03:59:15**

Quote from: ivana on June 25, 2009, 23:40:56

yeah i knew that budget diesel is very much like budget petrol: somewhat dodgy and can lead to a car's extended holiday at the mechanic...

Exactly right - and with a CRDi that could lead to what could be considered a large budget deficit!

ivana · **Reply #9: June 26, 2009, 20:52:43**

mm hmm and as im just about to get my 06/07, 07/08 and rudd money from the taxation dept, and then my 08/09 tax... im keen to keep it in surplus...

Lakes · **Reply #10: June 27, 2009, 20:40:52**

Agree with Cam, but i still think my motor runs nicer on caltex Vortex diesel seems smoother, the BP make a premium diesel too would like to try that, but the BP i used foams up when filling, so are we getting bubbles in the fuel? this last lot of Caltex Vortex seemed to have no foaming at all but the vortex will spit fuel out when your topping up to brim much easier than the foaming type diesel, so slow down a lot when it gets near the top.
the vortex is supposed to keep injectors clean, this is important same as the fuel pump lubrication

ivana · **Reply #11: June 28, 2009, 03:58:01**

so i tried vortex diesel... filed right up to the top of the tank a few things:

previous to this i hadn't noticed how much diesel foams. nor had i filled her right to the very top...

ill agree and say that the engine seems quieter and smoother now.

but when i asked the guy at the servo about the fuel he couldn't tell me much about it.

its going to be interesting to see how much mileage i get off this one now.

ozsnowman · **Reply #12: June 28, 2009, 11:05:45**

I wish Caltex would get off their collective butts and roll it out around the country!

Lakes · **Reply #13: June 28, 2009, 21:18:38**

Quote from: ivana on June 28, 2009, 03:58:01

so i tried vortex diesel... filed right up to the top of the tank a few things:

previous to this i hadn't noticed how much diesel foams. nor had i filled her right to the very top...

ill agree and say that the engine seems quieter and smoother now.

but when i asked the guy at the servo about the fuel he couldn't tell me much about it.

its going to be interesting to see how much mileage i get off this one now.

The benifet useing Vortex diesel would be more to do with motor long liverty and keeping injection clean, i have not noticed a gain in fuel economy at all useing it but motor runs smoother and has slightly more responce, when you use it all the time you get used to it, then you fill up with something else and not straight away but eventually you notice less responce not as smooth, but good BP is close but if you use BP all the time then switch to Caltex Vortex Diesel you won't notice straight away then after say 200K you start noticing your car performs better i think this is the cleaning effect it has.
]you can do a search or contact caltex.

~ Angel ~ · **Reply #14: June 29, 2009, 10:50:24**

When saying "standard diesel", do you mean "normal diesel" (I mean normal not the Euro one with low sulphur ratio) and if so, do you believe it has a negative effect on the engine?

Lakes · **Reply #15: June 30, 2009, 03:49:55**

I think all our diesel now is low sulphire euro standards. i think USA is now the same too

hayseed · **Reply #16: June 30, 2009, 06:36:19**

Quote from: MRH130 on June 25, 2009, 22:57:44

And no biodiesel!

No biodiesel? Curious as to why now. XD

Lakes · **Reply #17: June 30, 2009, 10:59:59**

Quote from: hayseed on June 30, 2009, 06:36:19

Quote from: MRH130 on June 25, 2009, 22:57:44
And no biodiesel!

Someone here did say they run it in there i30 CRDi, but was a while back, and it was not me.
mines runing sweet on Vortex Diesel so why change.
some say bio is dry and not good for fuel pump, then you go to the bio diesel sight and they say bio is good for the fuel pump.
but as yet who garantee's bio will not damage motor and garantees to pay full costs for any damage it causes.
they are developing a natural gas based diesel fuel but who knows when and if the i30 could run on it.
just do as factory recomend. and play it safe.

No biodiesel? Curious as to why now. XD

iThurT · **Reply #18: July 02, 2009, 22:13:38**

Filled up at a busy Shell station today. Parked at the end pump and realised it was "V-Power" Diesel at £1.07p/litre (against £1.03 for standard). Couldn't go to the other pump 'cos a guy pulled in right behind me so I thought "I'll give the V-Power a try". I've done about 70 miles on it so far and cannot detect any difference between it and the Tesco slop I had in previously. Not impressed so far.

Dazzler · **Reply #19: July 02, 2009, 22:34:52**

Quote from: iThurT on July 02, 2009, 22:13:38

Filled up at a busy Shell station today. Parked at the end pump and realised it was "V-Power" Diesel at £1.07p/litre (against £1.03 for standard). Couldn't go to the other pump 'cos a guy pulled in right behind me so I thought "I'll give the V-Power a try". I've done about 70 miles on it so far and cannot detect any difference between it and the Tesco slop I had in previously. Not impressed so far.

Hi,

That's interesting but guess it depends how low you were b4 you filled up.. Sometimes with these things it takes a second fill to make the difference (if it has been diluted with standard fuel)

iThurT · **Reply #20: July 02, 2009, 23:34:58**

Hi Dazz

What you say would normally have an effect but I can't have had more than a couple of litres of the Tesco stuff left in the tank before I filled up with 51.45 litres of V-Power. I'd driven 20 miles since the "---" started on the DTE!
It's early days yet so things might improve. We'll see.

Nev75 · **Reply #21: July 05, 2009, 13:18:48**

I have purchased an i30 CRDi, but have not received it yet .. and am learning more as I read these forums.

So most diesel seems to have some foam forming while filling? There's also mention of some diesel spilling out. Sounds like it's not like petrol fills where you can just fill it up, and an overflow sensor will stop the petrol filling in when the tank is full .. instead with diesel you have to be more careful, or it will start to spill or bubble out ... is this correct?

Dazzler · **Reply #22: July 05, 2009, 13:22:10**

Hi Nev..

It will still click off when it gets near full but if you start trying to fill it to the brim like some members do to get there 1200+ km's to the tank with the nozzle only part way in it can splash out a bit (because the froth makes it a bit harder to judge)

**Reply #23: July 05, 2009, 13:31:11**

Quote from: Nev75 on July 05, 2009, 13:18:48

...an overflow sensor will stop the petrol filling in when the tank is full .. instead with diesel you have to be more careful, or it will start to spill or bubble out ... is this correct?

Nah, it still cuts out but it will do that well before the tank is full due to the foam tripping it off. You can sit for ages filling to the brim or just do as I do and allow it to "short fill" because it still goes further than any petrol model even when not full.

Life is too short to stand around getting the last cup-full in... but each to their own.

Nev75 · **Reply #24: July 05, 2009, 13:52:43**

Thanks Dazz and Pip ... makes sense

As for the premium type diesels ... we don't get Caltex Vortex Premium diesel here in SA (only available at sites listed here : http://www.caltex.com.au/assets/VortexDieselSites.pdf ), but we do get BP Ultimate Diesel quite easily ... and seems to have the same features as the Caltex stuff (injector cleaning, anti-foaming agent, supposed better fuel economy & performance).

MRH130 · **Reply #25: July 05, 2009, 14:13:48**

Quote from: hayseed on June 30, 2009, 06:36:19

Quote from: MRH130 on June 25, 2009, 22:57:44
And no biodiesel!

No biodiesel? Curious as to why now. XD

It's ok in old diesels, in fact I used to run it in my old Diesel Mercedes from time to time. They're simple and strong enough that they can take it.

The problem is that Common Rail Diesels are designed and built so such fine tolerances that changing the properties of the fuel can cause serious problems. As others have said, pump failures are rife with biofuels, as are injector problems and all sorts of driveability issues. Remember too, that many components in the system rely on the lubrication abilities of Diesel to lubricate important parts. If you put anything foreign in there it's going to affect those components. Some people swear by the stuff, but I have seen high pressure pumps that have had biodiesel used in them and we pulled the pumps down and they were bright yellow inside (not quite sure why that was) and totally destroyed.

Biodiesel is too variable and it's just a danger to use it in a modern CR Diesel that hasn't been designed to cope with it. And as anyone will tell you, the price of damaged CR fuel system components will seriously make your eyes water.

If a major component in the fuel system fails, the first thing they'll look at is the fuel - and if it's not dead-dinosaur-Diesel, you'll be needing your chequebook!

So no biodiesel.

hayseed · **Reply #26: July 06, 2009, 04:45:55**

Ah hah. That's good to know! Thanks.

iThurT · **Reply #27: July 12, 2009, 22:48:23**

Just to finish the Shell V-Power story...

Used 50l in 580 miles (~ 53mpg) which was pretty good seeing as I was working the motor harder than usual (see 'First tankful' thread). Refuelled with supermarket slop (Morrisons) and, after about 50 miles, felt a small but definite improvement in engine response.
From this unscientific test I can only conclude that V-Power is a waste of money for the 1.6 i30 regarding 'driveability' although there could be a small improvement in fuel consumption. I'll use the Morrisons fuel in a similar manner to see if it can match the Shell's economy. I reckon it will.

michael_i30 · **Reply #28: July 13, 2009, 09:29:25**

Quote from: michael_i30 on June 24, 2009, 04:28:52

Just filled up today for the first time with Caltex Premium Diesel. It's now available at my local servo on the Central Coast.

Definitely less froth when filling however I still did the trickle feed. I reckon it halved the time to fill as I always top it right up. Not sure about this but I reckon it was a different colour. More yellow than normal ??

Just finished one tank of Caltex Premium Diesel. Didn't get more KMs from this tank than other normal diesel from the same Caltex servo and the same pump.

I did however have a 15,000 KM service done mid way.

Filled up again this arvo with Caltex Premium Diesel with a DTE of ~60 KMs so will see how a full tank goes.

Details from the trip computer prior to fillup was 5.4 L/100KM. Some ~1070 KMs traveled , DTE of ~60 KMs, Average speed ~65 KM/H

Scangauge II was off by less than 1/2 litre on refill estimate. Average for the tank was 5.8 L/100KM. So 0.4 L/100KM difference.

iThurT · **Reply #29: July 27, 2009, 19:59:44**

Filled up with 58litres (I know, but that's what the pump claimed!) today after 670 miles on the Morrisons
diesel. That works out a 52.6mpg, same as the V-Power.
Probably used less than 58l as this time I filled it right to the brim. Didn't mean to fill it that high but it didn't froth as much as I thought it would.

I'm expecting 700+ miles from this tank.
Car's going great except for the tyre noise.