[Doggie 1]

Regardless of whether or not we agree or disagree with the death penalty, shame on you Indonesia for making the declarations that the executions of two Australians would go ahead within 72 hours, on ANZAC Day, despite requests from the Australian government to show some understanding and not make the announcement on that day.   

It is just a show of strength by Indonesia and a kick in the face to a country that supports you in so many ways.

Just as was the media circus surrounding the transfer of these prisoners to Indonesia's execution island, when other prisoners from other countries were transferred in the back of a Jeep.

I hope that our government imposes sanctions on Indonesia and the withdrawal of our massive foreign aid would be a good start.

This is not a comment on the guilt or otherwise of Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, rather an indictment on the Indonesian government that seems intent on making an international political statement with emphasis placed on insulting Australia in the biggest way possible.

Bali 9: Latest reports on executions of Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran

[Phil №❶]

Indonesia 250+ Meg

Australia 27 Meg

As if they care about us.

We go cap in hand to be members of the ASEAN community yet Asian countries treat us regularly with contempt, because we are NOT Asian. The foreign aid we supply, is part of that price.

I am totally against the Death penalty IN ANY COUNTRY OF THE WORLD. Why aren't we waving sticks at all the other nations. Australia is being embarrassed by the performance of our politicians IMO.

[Doggie 1]

Perhaps the more important question is this:

Why does Indonesia go to extreme lengths to rescue its own citizens from any country around the world, whether they be convicted of murder, rape, drug trafficking or any other crime?

Because Indonesia is two-faced, that's why.

They believe in the death penalty when it suits them for their own political ends but will spend millions in rescuing Indonesian citizens from  other countries.

Two faced IMO.

As the drug importation and trafficking crisis is only getting worse through Indonesia they need to make a statement, Anzac day has little to do with Indonesia so I don't see any reason they should hold off because of our traditions.

Aside from that they should of shot those scumbags ages ago, this is the first time they were caught...how many people had been killed previously with their smuggled heroin, the worst part of it is the ring leader has gotten away scott free.

[Doggie 1]

As the drug importation and trafficking crisis is only getting worse through Indonesia they need to make a statement, Anzac day has little to do with Indonesia so I don't see any reason they should hold off because of our traditions.

Aside from that they should of shot those scumbags ages ago, this is the first time they were caught...how many people had been killed previously with their smuggled heroin, the worst part of it is the ring leader has gotten away scott free.

It was their third run as far as I know.
They were a part of a large Chinese drug syndicate based in Sydney.
These two had previously sent two Australian teenagers aged 15 & 16 (male & female) to Indonesia and they were caught and served ten year prison sentences.
These two knew the consequences.
Indonesia still thumbs its nose at Australia and I still say we should start to impose sanctions as they take, take, take but have no respect for Australia.
None.

[Wingerdave]

As the drug importation and trafficking crisis is only getting worse through Indonesia they need to make a statement, Anzac day has little to do with Indonesia so I don't see any reason they should hold off because of our traditions.

Aside from that they should of shot those scumbags ages ago, this is the first time they were caught...how many people had been killed previously with their smuggled heroin, the worst part of it is the ring leader has gotten away scott free.

It was their third run as far as I know.
They were a part of a large Chinese drug syndicate based in Sydney.
These two had previously sent two Australian teenagers aged 15 & 16 (male & female) to Indonesia and they were caught and served ten year prison sentences.
These two knew the consequences.
Indonesia still thumbs its nose at Australia and I still say we should start to impose sanctions as they take, take, take but have no respect for Australia.
None.

Do you think Indonesia actually gives a rat's arse what Oz thinks? It's a sovereign nation with it's own laws and statutes (at least that's what they're hiding behind).

Short of invading them there's not much that can be done in the near future. And it's the largest muslim population in the world, apparently (120 million), which would sort of go against hard lining them to much.

So i think they'll keep doing what they please for a while, however abhorent that may be to some people.

[Doggie 1]

The point I am making is that Australia has been one of Indonesia's greatest friends and donates mega $$$ in foreign aid, but they show total contempt to us in so many ways.

I think that should change.

Their right as a sovereign nation to do whatever they like, I guess, is up to them but don't treat Australia with utter contempt.

I actually think Australia is at fault for pandering to Indonesia's needs and wants.

A bit of toughness is called for IMO.

[Wingerdave]

Why is the Chinese bunch in Sydney still operating then? Bit of "Border Security" additude??. Treat your own citizens like tourists and you won't have a drug problem 

[Phil №❶]

Diplomacy isn't one of your strong points, Dave. As much as many may agree with you, a hard line approach from "squibs" like us, will only invoke a flood of asylum seekers.

 
 On a world wide scale, the MO of terrorist organisations is to destroy economies, by overloading recipient countries welfare and health systems with dependent people. Look at EU & GB as examples.

Protagonists & antagonists create division in the recipient countries, a perfect recipe for disruption, just what they want. Just saying.

[Doggie 1]

Diplomacy isn't one of your strong points, Dave. As much as many may agree with you, a hard line approach from "squibs" like us, will only invoke a flood of asylum seekers.

Gee, I thought I was ever the diplomat.   
A hardline approach won't invoke a flood of asylum seekers though.
If you recall, Indonesia said they would not support Australia's policy of turning back the boats.
But at the end of the day, it worked.
And it also helped Indonesia as well as they were the transient country and it significantly reduced the number of asylum seekers using their country as a conduit in order to travel to Australia, their preferred destination.
Couple that to a policy that stopped mass drownings at sea and you have a win/win/win situation.
So as much as Indonesia might like to flex their muscle, at the end of the day, they'll co-operate as it helps them too.

[Wingerdave]

Diplomacy isn't one of your strong points, Dave. As much as many may agree with you, a hard line approach from "squibs" like us, will only invoke a flood of asylum seekers.

Actually, I can be extremely diplomatic, right up until I'm not. It's simply that some things really get my goat, especially pussyfooting politicians of all colours and directions on issues like drug crime, and who's to blame. Arresting who ever you can isn't going to stop anything, because the one's you want to arrest aren't.

At the end of the day, if you've done all the PC things you can, it's time to take it out of the PC domein and actually do something effective. I don't have all the answers, but i do have a few ideas, not all of them meet with loud applause from all, but, there you go.......

[Just Rick]

these two scumbags will be exactly like Chambers and Barlow when they were hung,same as the a for mentioned a month after they have been shot no one will remember them,geez I'd even fly over and shoot em myself just to shut the media up and the amount of tax payers money that has been spent attempting to get them so called mercy,they had absolutely no thought for the pain,suffering and also the common place of the heroin death toll of the drugs they were bringing back into Aus,then some F*#k knuckle has come up with the idea of having a minute silence for them,Piss off.

They're Australian Nationals,they're not even fair dinkum Aussie,hurry up and shoot em I say

[Wingerdave]

Rick, you da man. 

[Dazzler]

As with everything newsworthy these days, the Media have really made a beat up out of this (particularly channel 7) 

Hours and hours of repeat video footage and constant harping (Channel 7 must be run by women...)  Just saying!

[rustynutz]

Bali Nine executions: Andrew Chan, Myuran Sukumaran dead

[Surferdude]

This has dragged on for 10 years now.
In the beginning my attitude was simply, you knew what you were risking. It's their country and I supported their right to apply their own laws.

However, there are a number of issues and inconsistencies here.

As far as I can tell, these two guys, while designated "ring leaders" weren't really. They were still middlemen answering to nameless big bosses further up the chain - where all the REAL money is made. I now feel that if the actual top men can't be brought to justice, using capital punishment on middlemen (even "upper" middlemen) isn't justified.

I agree the smuggling of illegal drugs contributes to the creation of addicts, with all the heartbreak associated with it.

However (again), we all get to make choices in life. One of the easiest (IMHO) is to just say "NO!".  In other words if you don't buy the drugs there won't be a market for them. I hate it when legal people uses drug use/ abuse/ influence as mitigating circumstances for crimes committed. They made the choice to take them in the first place, so they are fully responsible for their actions while under the influence. And yes, this includes alcohol.

The third thing is that reportedly, one of the convicted (a Philipino woman) was granted clemency or a stay of execution at the last minute. She had been convicted of carrying drugs INTO Indonesia. "Our" two were convicted of taking them OUT of Indonesia. There's some serious inconsistency there.

So, as a result of all this plus the fact that the convicted pair had to live for 10 years with the knowledge they were going to be shot, I have now come around to the view that all capital punishment is barbaric and should not happen, anywhere, anytime.
I'm not being pacifist here. Quite honestly, especially in the case of paedophiles, rapists and other crimes of similar severity, life in gaol without parole should be mandatory. And yes, I'm more than happy to contribute to the ongoing costs. Those types will suffer more in gaol than just the carrying out of capital punishment.

On a slightly different note. I agree the media attention has been over the top, although they'd probably argue that by promoting it all, they may make some think twice about attempting a similar crime. But, at the end of the day, somewhere in excess of 4,000 people have died in Nepal, including an as yet undetermined number of Australians. Yet each news bulletin I've seen since the earthquake has led with the Bali 9 pair - sometimes for up to 5 minutes - BEFORE getting into the Nepal tragedy.

[Surferdude]

It's now 11 minutes into the Channel 10 news and nothing but the Bali executions.
Hey guys! Nepal!.

[Doggie 1]

Yes, have to admit to having mixed feelings on this one, having regard to all the circumstances.
Must be getting weak in my middle age. I even woke up in the night a few times considering what was happening at those times.   

[Phil №❶]

It's now 11 minutes into the Channel 10 news and nothing but the Bali executions.
Hey guys! Nepal!.

15 minutes on 7, saw the same as I saw at 0700 

[Surferdude]

It's now 11 minutes into the Channel 10 news and nothing but the Bali executions.
Hey guys! Nepal!.

15 minutes on 7, saw the same as I saw at 0700 

Yep. Ended up going for 14+ minutes.
I won't turn the TV on in the mornings.
Except for the second Sunday in October.   

[Phil №❶]

I don't watch it, either. But SWMBO wanted a catch up.

Mind you, Skippy is on @ 0600 

[Doggie 1]

Mind you, Skippy is on @ 0600 

I'm hopping mad about that.   

[Johnno]

We've had coverage on the news up here, and we've got a grandmother on death row also for smuggling drugs.

Use to watch Skippy when I was a young lad

[The Gonz]

This may dowse the flames of indignation, hypocrisy, self-interest and media manipulation.
Use of capital punishment by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Just Rick]

Sorry but still say we should still have it on the cards here,for the likes of the Bernies,the Milats of this world and the Martin Bryants 

  

[AlanHo]

When I come to power it will be introduced for premeditated murders, paedophiles, drug sellers, repeat rapists, human traffickers, terrorism, driving whilst uninsured and repeat parking offences. As a starter.

[Just Rick]

Alan you forgot the one which would be top on my list drivers using mobile phones 

[FatBoy]

I hear on radio and television that people are going to boycott going to Bali because of what happened.  I wonder if the same people are going to boycott Singapore, Malaysia, the USA, etc for the same reasons?  Me thinks not.

The death penalty is a perfect punishment for crime, unfortunately no judicial system is perfect.

Finally, we must remember that Indonesia is a sovereign state, and as such has the right to impose whatever punishment it sees fit for crimes.  We mustn't impose our views on what constitutes the death penalty on what Indonesians deem appropriate.  They believe that smuggling drugs warrants execution, whereas in Western society this would be met with a slap on the wrist.  In my view, somewhere in the middle is more appropriate.

As for people like Martin Bryant, he is mentally challenged, and even in the USA wouldn't be executed for his crimes.  He has the mental capacity of a child.  Ivan Milat always claimed his innocence, what would happen if more evidence came out that pointed to somebody else?  You can release a prisoner if subsequently found innocent, however you can't undead somebody.

Other people say that execution is cheaper.  Really?  How much money was spent on The Bali Two to try and get their sentence changed to life in prison?  Appeal after appeal, clogging the legal system with paperwork and lawyers. 

It is not a deterrent.  If it was, then these crimes would not of been committed in the first place.

[Dazzler]

  Jamie. You make some really valid points for a bloke with a great sense of humour!