Another "space saver" vs "full sized spare" thread

Lakes · **Reply #30: February 23, 2010, 18:31:07**

Surferdude, very good point!
So Babis our Greek mate, your loaded up with your Wife & kids and gifts from your Mum & Dad, then Flop Flop Flop, we have a flat. No Worries mate, we got that useless little space saver under all this gear somewhere. so we unload all our gear. get the space saver out. it's on the car, now we have a full size wheel & Tyre to fit in the back. so we come to the reason why we carry a spare, then we come to the point of saving space, but when you change the space saver then have to carry your dirty brake dust covered full size . you find out the thruth.
I think that full size spare under the seat has it's merits. but i think you need a roof rack just in case.
cheers

Surferdude · **Reply #31: February 24, 2010, 11:27:24**

Quote from: Lorian on February 23, 2010, 15:02:55

A few miles at less then 30mph to the nearest garage in an emergency sure. I'd still put it on the back.

Lorian, I admire your dedication to safety.
Now, let's look at reality.
It's raining, night time and you're on the side of the M1, somewhere dark.
Does your jack lift the whole side of the car, thus letting you take both wheel off in order to take the rear wheel off and move it to the front, thus letting you fit the spacesaver to the rear? If not, it becomes a multi step process.
1/ Jack up the front, remove flat, fit spacesaver to front.
2/ Let car down. Relocate jack to rear of sill. Jack up. Remove rear wheel. Replace with flat front wheel.
3/ Let car down. Relocate jack to front of sill. Jack car up. Remove spacesaver and replace with wheel off back of car.
4/ Let car down. Relocate jack to rear of sill. Jack car up. Remove flat and replace with spacesaver.
5/ Find somewhere to store flat wheel and tyre.

Now before everyone points out the quicker way.
Yes, you can fit the space saver straight to the rear, thereby freeing up the rear wheel to then fit on the front after you let the jack down, relocate it to the front of the sill and jack the car up, replacing the flat.
Still a 2 step process but, surprisingly, on th ecouple of occasions where I've run across people who've carried out this process, they've done it the first way. Not spacesavers but non-alloy spares, rated to max of 80 kph and they decided they'd rather have the alloy wheel on the front.
Not sure why. They seemed intelligent people, just not to mechanically savvy.

Anyway, my point is - a major task to fit the spacesaver to the rear if it's the front wheel which has the flat.
And dangerous at night at the best of times.

babis_xo · **Reply #32: February 24, 2010, 14:21:31**

Quote from: Lakes on February 23, 2010, 18:31:07

Surferdude, very good point!
So Babis our Greek mate, your loaded up with your Wife & kids and gifts from your Mum & Dad, then Flop Flop Flop, we have a flat. No Worries mate, we got that useless little space saver under all this gear somewhere. so we unload all our gear. get the space saver out. it's on the car, now we have a full size wheel & Tyre to fit in the back. so we come to the reason why we carry a spare, then we come to the point of saving space, but when you change the space saver then have to carry your dirty brake dust covered full size . you find out the thruth.
I think that full size spare under the seat has it's merits. but i think you need a roof rack just in case.
cheers

I've already admitted that, this is a determinant point

(and what is a "roof rack"?)

babis_xo · **Reply #33: February 24, 2010, 14:52:03**

Quote from: Lorian on February 23, 2010, 12:33:04

Quote from: babis_xo on February 23, 2010, 11:42:01
It's a matter of priorities

I think I'd rather keep the fuel tank.

Maybe it's behind that spare, under the boot

But don't worry, fuel tanks should be useless in less than 20 yrs.
As for spare tyres, they will be past in about 10 yrs (as Michelin maintains). I'll be patience till then

EDIT: next generation tyres---> http://www.toxel.com/tech/2009/07/05/innovative-airless-tires-by-michelin/

EDIT no2: tooo ugly... bliahhh. I hope that the commercial tyres shall have sidewalls

tk421 · **Reply #34: February 24, 2010, 16:04:02**

babis,

A roof rack is the framework for carrying luggage on the roof of a vehicle. I think they come standard with the i30 CW, and as an option for the hatch.

Tim

babis_xo · **Reply #35: February 24, 2010, 16:54:17**

I got it. Thanks!

Nick Riffed · **Reply #36: February 24, 2010, 17:33:01**

Quote from: tk421 on February 24, 2010, 16:04:02

babis,

A roof rack is the framework for carrying luggage on the roof of a vehicle. I think they come standard with the i30 CW, and as an option for the hatch.

Tim

The estate/CW, such as mine, has roof rails along the roof sides. I would attach the roof rack to them................on second thoughts, I'd get the Mrs to take her clothes off and hang on to the roof rails. Wrap the flat tyre up in her stuff and put it on the front passenger seat. Doesn't matter that I've got a full size spare...........i'd get to listen to what I want to listen to as well. Bonus!!

babis_xo · **Reply #37: February 24, 2010, 17:43:04**

Quote from: Nick Riffed on February 24, 2010, 17:33:01

...I'd get the Mrs to take her clothes off and hang on to the roof rails. Wrap the flat tyre up in her stuff and put it on the front passenger seat.

that's the weirdest meditation of all!!!

Lakes · **Reply #38: February 24, 2010, 18:55:27**

Quote from: babis_xo on February 24, 2010, 14:21:31

Quote from: Lakes on February 23, 2010, 18:31:07
Surferdude, very good point!
So Babis our Greek mate, your loaded up with your Wife & kids and gifts from your Mum & Dad, then Flop Flop Flop, we have a flat. No Worries mate, we got that useless little space saver under all this gear somewhere. so we unload all our gear. get the space saver out. it's on the car, now we have a full size wheel & Tyre to fit in the back. so we come to the reason why we carry a spare, then we come to the point of saving space, but when you change the space saver then have to carry your dirty brake dust covered full size . you find out the thruth.
I think that full size spare under the seat has it's merits. but i think you need a roof rack just in case.
cheers

I've already admitted that, this is a determinant point
(and what is a "roof rack"?)

Hi Babis, a Roof Rack, mounts to the roof of the car and you can use it to carry things on the roof. there are different types, you have probably got them but use a different name.
cheers

syecadelic · **Reply #39: February 25, 2010, 23:44:44**

yeah space saver is an anoyance.. they have now started puting the space saves bk in the 2010 modelse of the i30 within the UK. as far as loosing trunk/boot space its only approx 2-3 inches in depth.. i was measuring it in my mums car. she has a full size.. white i30 se. sunroof etc.. whereas mine wil have a space saver. im contemplating fabricating an mdf floor, and puting some storage in.
I'm planning on filling some of the boot space with a couple of subwoofers yeah.. I kno, young kid wasting money

can't resist it

Lorian · **Reply #40: February 26, 2010, 08:06:58**

Quote from: surferdude on February 24, 2010, 11:27:24

Quote from: Lorian on February 23, 2010, 15:02:55
A few miles at less then 30mph to the nearest garage in an emergency sure. I'd still put it on the back.

Lorian, I admire your dedication to safety.
Now, let's look at reality.
It's raining, night time and you're on the side of the M1, somewhere dark.
Does your jack lift the whole side of the car, thus letting you take both wheel off in order to take the rear wheel off and move it to the front, thus letting you fit the spacesaver to the rear? If not, it becomes a multi step process.
1/ Jack up the front, remove flat, fit spacesaver to front.
2/ Let car down. Relocate jack to rear of sill. Jack up. Remove rear wheel. Replace with flat front wheel.
3/ Let car down. Relocate jack to front of sill. Jack car up. Remove spacesaver and replace with wheel off back of car.
4/ Let car down. Relocate jack to rear of sill. Jack car up. Remove flat and replace with spacesaver.
5/ Find somewhere to store flat wheel and tyre.

Now before everyone points out the quicker way.
Yes, you can fit the space saver straight to the rear, thereby freeing up the rear wheel to then fit on the front after you let the jack down, relocate it to the front of the sill and jack the car up, replacing the flat.
Still a 2 step process but, surprisingly, on th ecouple of occasions where I've run across people who've carried out this process, they've done it the first way. Not spacesavers but non-alloy spares, rated to max of 80 kph and they decided they'd rather have the alloy wheel on the front.
Not sure why. They seemed intelligent people, just not to mechanically savvy.

Anyway, my point is - a major task to fit the spacesaver to the rear if it's the front wheel which has the flat.
And dangerous at night at the best of times.

If it was driver's side then I'd put it on the front until the next exit (of course!) and then swap it to the back. I can do a front to back swap in just a few minutes, but then I am reasonably fit, and keep a X brace that I can spin in the boot, my studs are greased and I torqued the nuts on so I know how tight they are. Most folk wouldn't be in this position I guess. I'd rather have an alloy though.

The jack supplied with the car needs more grease to make it work better too, mine was pretty dry x-factory. The top of the jack head is not very wide either, so it would be capable of damaging the under-seal, so I have glued some bicycle innertube to the top of mine to give it a little cushion.

simon@mgr · **Reply #41: February 26, 2010, 23:02:43**

Has anyone priced the tyre for the spacesaver wheel, I think you will have a nasty surprise.

MelWA · **Reply #42: February 27, 2010, 00:41:57**

I wouldn't even bother to price a tyre because the space-saver would be in the bin

Surferdude · **Reply #43: February 27, 2010, 08:05:29**

Quote from: MelWA on February 27, 2010, 00:41:57

I wouldn't even bother to price a tyre because the space-saver would be in the bin

Yep. First thing I did with the space saver in my Impreza. Went out and bought a s/h alloy wheel and a new tyre.
But, for the record, space saver tyres are exhorbitant.

Dazzler · **Reply #44: February 27, 2010, 09:05:49**

Quote from: MelWA on February 27, 2010, 00:41:57

I wouldn't even bother to price a tyre because the space-saver would be in the bin

I guess they wouldn't sell many replacements (who would ever wear one out!)

accim · **Reply #45: February 27, 2010, 12:59:18**

Last few km's on my way home, I've noticed my car doesn't handle as well. When I got home I checked my tires..of course...I had a flat tire. It was night and raining, so I changed it quickly and put a spare one on. Luckily it's a "normal" one - 185/65/15 so I normally went to the movies later and to the shops today without thinking if I should or not, but I had to fix it and put it back, because the spare one isn't a winter tire, which we must have till 15th March.

I'm definitely for the normal size spare tire even if it takes some space.. What if you get a flat tire on Sunday or Saturday afternoon, when you can't get it fixed, because nobody works and you really have to go on a 100, 200 km trip. Over here there's no way you can change it before Monday then...

dibboi30 · **Reply #46: March 01, 2010, 02:05:06**

Hi Dazzler,
Really don't see how you gain much room from a space saver,it fits in the same place under the lift up floor?
in Oz space saver would be as usefull as an ashtray on a motor bike thank goodness we have full size here.Hyuandi is just being cheap?
dibboi30

Dazzler · **Reply #47: March 01, 2010, 11:35:59**

Quote from: dibboi30 on March 01, 2010, 02:05:06

Hi Dazzler,
Really don't see how you gain much room from a space saver,it fits in the same place under the lift up floor?
in Oz space saver would be as usefull as an ashtray on a motor bike thank goodness we have full size here.Hyuandi is just being cheap?
dibboi30

I'm no advocate for a space saver spare

(don't think they have been used in OZ i30's?)

Forf the record when used in UK models the boot floor is (apparently) about 7cm lower giving some extra boot capacity...

Lorian · **Reply #48: March 01, 2010, 11:51:07**

Quote from: Dazzler on March 01, 2010, 11:35:59

Forf the record when used in UK models the boot floor is (apparently) about 7cm lower giving some extra boot capacity...

But presumably you loose the space in the trays underneath? I even use the space in the alloy to keep my jump leads.

km · **Reply #49: March 01, 2010, 20:04:31**

hi . we have a i30 deluxe with a full size alloy first car in years to have one
km

Lorian · **Reply #50: April 02, 2010, 20:59:03**

A cautionary tale about carrying an inflated tyre inside the car

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/8600833.stm

penak · **Reply #51: April 02, 2010, 21:15:05**

AFAIK, the "space saver" does not save any space. At least on our CW, the cargo space floor could not be any lower, be it full size spare or not, it has full size spare.

The ONLY reason for the existence of the "space saver" is simply cost (to the manufacturer) and weight.

Even with the lower weight alone, that just may make the difference on certain markets where the car tax is based on the CO2 emissions.
Lighter car has lower combined cycle and city consumption.

Just for that reason, some marks sell their cars withouth even the space saver spare here in Europe. Those cars just have the tyre repair spray bottle. Good luck with that if you have a 5cm long slash at the sidewall (done by a broken bottle base, have had that once...).

One reason why I like Hyundai is that they are relatively honest with their cars, providing a full size spare, and also refraining from questionable practises to snip another gram from CO2 emissions of their "green" models by lowering the suspension and cutting weight by leaving out necessary equipment and sound proofing.

Dazzler · **Reply #52: April 02, 2010, 21:18:00**

Quote from: Lorian on April 02, 2010, 20:59:03

A cautionary tale about carrying an inflated tyre inside the car

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/8600833.stm

Very Tragic...and a rare event I would suspect?? Not the way a military person would have expected to go...

penak · **Reply #53: April 02, 2010, 21:27:08**

Quote from: Lorian on April 02, 2010, 20:59:03

A cautionary tale about carrying an inflated tyre inside the car

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/8600833.stm

Correction:

A cautionary tale about holding a visibly flawed inflated tyre in contact with your abdomen.
(sorry to say, but IMHO this falls into the "Darwin awards" -category...)

It is so easy to forget how incredibly dangerous thing the compressed air is.

Lorian · **Reply #54: April 02, 2010, 21:40:16**

I have never heard of the like before, although I expect it's not the first of this type of accident.

I have had a cycle tube shred at about 90psi whilst i have been pumping it up. The tyre was split off the rim and the noise cause me to be partially deaf for a day or two afterwards. Nowadays I always pump my tyres with safety glasses on and facing way from the bike.

I presume in this instance the Z3 had a space saver, and that was a contibutory factor in the accident, but I don't know for sure. Either way this Lady wouldn't qualify for a darwin award, most people wouldn't realise.

Surferdude · **Reply #55: April 03, 2010, 04:28:34**

Quote from: Lorian on April 02, 2010, 21:40:16

I have never heard of the like before, although I expect it's not the first of this type of accident.

I have had a cycle tube shred at about 90psi whilst i have been pumping it up. The tyre was split off the rim and the noise cause me to be partially deaf for a day or two afterwards. Nowadays I always pump my tyres with safety glasses on and facing way from the bike. 90psi in a cycle tube???? Normally limited to somewhere between 40 and 60. Was it something special or were you just not paying attention? I blew one when I was about 12 years old, using the service station air hose. Know just what you mean about the deafness. Worst bit was it was a 5 klm walk/push home with the bike.

I presume in this instance the Z3 had a space saver, and that was a contibutory factor in the accident, but I don't know for sure. Either way this Lady wouldn't qualify for a darwin award, most people wouldn't realise. Have to say, tragic as this accident is, the lady was a civil engineer. I would hope any civil engineers working around my area were well aware of the dangers of compressed air.
Somewhere there is a pic of a Swedish tyre fitter's imprint on the ceiling of a workshop when the truck tyre he was inflating exploded.

[deleted]

Dazzler · **Reply #56: April 03, 2010, 08:26:36**

Hi Trev,

Can you get that scan any clearer please.. Don't know about anyone else but I haven't got a hope of reading it...

Lorian · **Reply #57: April 03, 2010, 09:05:58**

100psi+ is normal on a racing bike. I definitely wouldn't use a service station pump to inflate them, plus it'd be the wrong valve type.

simon@mgr · **Reply #58: April 03, 2010, 22:12:34**

My son is a tyre fitter.
He was working on a truck tyre (22" rim), when it gave way and threw him across the workshop.

Also, when I was in the RAAF, a fitter lost his legs when inflating the tyres on a P-3C Orion. The regulator on the nitrogen bottle failed and allowed 3500 psi to enter.
The rims exploded.

Dazzler · **Reply #59: April 03, 2010, 22:21:51**

Quote from: simon@mgr on April 03, 2010, 22:12:34

My son is a tyre fitter.
He was working on a truck tyre (22" rim), when it gave way and threw him across the workshop.

Also, when I was in the RAAF, a fitter lost his legs when inflating the tyres on a P-3C Orion. The regulator on the nitrogen bottle failed and allowed 3500 psi to enter.
The rims exploded.

Scary stuff... I am very safety aware due to time Managing a Tile shop with a big warehouse and also Managing a Roofing Centre but it just goes to show there are still hidden dangers that you may not be aware of...