[StarSeeker]

Hi all

I posted the below earlier this year regarding noisy tappets / lifters after my first service and have now decided to have an oil change, to try and cure the problem.

https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=8081.0

After reading through the forum I have come up with a short list of two oils below and would appreciate any opinions on what may be my best choice on a 1.4 petrol.

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_743651_langId_-1_categoryId_165581

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_210681_categoryId_165581_langId_-1?cm_sp=Intelligent_Offer-_-Product_Details_Zone_1-_-Blank&iozone=PDPz1

Thanks in advance, for any help.

[StarSeeker]

Sorry, forgot to mention.  Another oil I've considered is this below, although this is 5W-40 compared to the above post which are both 5W-30.

Seems a good price for some reason, with what appears to have decent specs.

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-68976-shell-helix-ultra-5w-40-fully-synthetic-engine-oil.aspx

[Dazzler]

Hi M8.. I would expect from everything I've read and heard over the years that the Mobil 1 would be the best followed by the Shell Helix Ultra and then the Castrol..They should all do the job just fine.

Shell now has a Helix Ultra EXTRA and Mobil 1 comes in at several different levels the one you are looking at is in the middle of their range I believe. Price is generally (but not always) a pretty good indicator of quality in oils...

[StarSeeker]

Thanks for your reply Daz, on my service they said they used Mobil Super 3000 5W-30 (fully synthetic) in my car which has seemed to create the tappet / lifter noise I’m getting, so I’m not sure whether it’s because my petrol i30 does not like Mobil or just that the Mobil Super 3000 is a lower grade of oil compared to Mobil 1 ESP?

I agree with what you say that price is generally a good indicator of quality, that’s why I’m left surprised of why the Shell Helix Ultra considering the spec, seems so cheap compared to others?

On my previous car I always used Castrol Magnatec (semi-synthetic), but by what I’ve read on this forum, I will not be putting it in my i30.  I’m assuming that Castrol Edge is a lot better oil than Magnatec, but not as good as Castrol Edge Sport.

It's a shame I can't find out, what they put in the car from new.  Cheers for your opinion m8y.

I believe Shell Helix Ultra is/was original fill. Shell Helix Ultra Extra is a later release low SAPS oil but not necessarily better.

WRT Mobil oil, stuff called Mobil 1 seems to be reserved for their best and 0w40 is AFAIK the best of the best (Mobil oil) and almost certainly has the greatest amount of "synthetic" content. You can safely disregard any mention of synthetic in the name or description: you need to look to the specification to guess at what percentage of true synthetic base oil(s) is used. There is no best (even 100%) synthetic content that will guarantee ultimate performance but little or no synthetic will always offer less than stellar performance.

Mobil ESP nomenclature, like Extra for Shell, defines a low SAPS oil that will be better for any form of exhaust emissions filter.

Oils can be defined as low or medium SAPS which essentially quantifies the amount of some ash producing additives. True low SAPS oils will satisfy ACEA C3. If your engine requires this you must use it.

So first choose an oil that adheres to C3 or B4 or whatever requirement the handbook says, then if you are truly anal, acquaint yourself with the manufacturers numbers and see if you cannot pick the better oils from the others. The ones mentioned will all be fine.

If you have cold-start tappet noise, try an 0w30/40 oil with the first number more important. The first number defines the cold viscosity. Zero is thinner than 5; thinner is better. A cold viscosity of zero also usually means the oil is more likely to contain better (more synthetic) base oil. Accepting the caveat above that more is not always better... more is better.

And just a final note: Edge Sport is a lower SAPS version of Edge which is more old school. Old school did not consider emissions as much as later blends. If you read between the lines you might think that newer oils offer less protection. This would be simplistic but none-the-less might be true.

[bloodnut]

  55000KM so far with Castrol 5-30 Edge, no problems to report.
Cheers Bloodnut

55000KM so far with Castrol 5-30 Edge, no problems to report.
Cheers Bloodnut

What engine?

FWIW I also use Castrol Edge Sport 5w30 in my wife's 1.4 petrol Getz. I have absolutely no reason to think it's not a good match for our moderate climate and lightly stressed engine - no turbo, no racing . I don't use it for my diesel however because it's only a second tier oil and I'm happy to pay the little extra for a top shelf oil. Currently using German Castrol 0w30 but probably switch to Edge 0w40 or M1 0w40 next.

[bloodnut]

Hi PIP its the 1.6 crdi, also run 0-40 Castrol edge in my Bt 50 4X4 with no problems.
Cheers Bloodnut 

[Dazzler]

Just for the record Supercheap (Australia) has Castrol Edge Sport 0W-40 for A$61.87 until 26/3/11

Mobil 1 5W-50 is $59.95 and Helix Ultra Extra 5W-30 not a particularly cheap $69.99

[rustynutz]

Just for the record Supercheap (Australia) has Castrol Edge Sport 0W-40 for A$61.87 until 26/3/11

Mobil 1 5W-50 is $59.95 and Helix Ultra Extra 5W-30 not a particularly cheap $69.99

Was tempted to get some more Castrol Edge 0W-40 but decided I'll worry about getting more closer to my next service. Not a bad saving though, roughly $10 off if my memory serves me correctly. 

[Dazzler]

Just for the record Supercheap (Australia) has Castrol Edge Sport 0W-40 for A$61.87 until 26/3/11

Mobil 1 5W-50 is $59.95 and Helix Ultra Extra 5W-30 not a particularly cheap $69.99

Was tempted to get some more Castrol Edge 0W-40 but decided I'll worry about getting more closer to my next service. Not a bad saving though, roughly $10 off if my memory serves me correctly.  

We've still got a couple of Castrol Edge Sport 5W-30 for Trish's CW (cover the next two years at the small mileages Trish does) and I've got another 2 years of fixed price $130 services on my Hybrid .. so we won't worry for now..

[babis_xo]

I use this
The company boasts that it's products outperforms Mobil1 (the strange thing is that Mobil never argued on this...)
I think it's just fine; can't tell that there is any difference to the original Shell(?) ones though.

[Dazzler]

Thanks Babis.. learn something new every day... Their company history is an interesting read 

[babis_xo]

.. learn something new every day...

Strange! Can't you find them there?

[Dazzler]

.. learn something new every day...

Strange! Can't you find them there?

Haven't seen that oil on the shelves over here (might be available though)

Amsoil seems to have either a cult following or haters.

It's a boutique oil company probably a little like Nulon in Australia but many times bigger and probably makes some of the best oil. One thing that does seem likely is that when they say an oil is 100% synthetic it just might actually be. Refreshing. 

There are distributors in Oz (I think it's sold in the manner of Amway or Avon which seems to displease its detractors), I'm pretty sure I located one in Dandenong Vic. a few years back. It's not cheap either.

[rustynutz]

You can buy it on ebay ......

I use this
The company boasts that it's products outperforms Mobil1 (the strange thing is that Mobil never argued on this...)
I think it's just fine; can't tell that there is any difference to the original Shell(?) ones though.

This is a ACEA A5/B5 oil designed for economy and is not suitable for diesels. As it's not specified, I assume it's the '04 and not the '08 spec as well. The '08 revision significantly increased the robustness which implies the earlier versions were lacking in protection.

It might be suitable for petrol but I can't find the information. Can someone with a petrol 1.4 tell us the ACEA specification recommended, and for that matter all the petrol engines?

[StarSeeker]

@ Pip…Sorry for the late reply and thanks for the detailed post m8y. 

Never really considered any other viscosity other than 5W-30 and hoped that now our warm weather is on its way the 5W-30 would be fine, it also seems that nearly all oil recommendations for the UK is 5W-30.  I do agree though, about the possibility of 0W having more synthetic.

Regarding my tappet/lifter noise, it seems like there is only one offending tappet/lifter, it rattles for a few miles when the engine is cold and near enough disappears when the engine is warm.  In my opinion I have one lazy tappet/lifter but would be quietened with the right oil, as I never had this noise from new and only started to get it after my first oil change had done about 1000 miles, seems like the oil used has maybe already lost its viscosity or broken down in some way.

I have been considering the idea of a 5W-40, thinking the 5W being thin enough to get the oil circulating quickly and that the W40 being heavy enough to give and maintain oil pressure to the tappets/lifters.  Also the W40 may stay thick enough to stop the oil draining from the tappets/lifters when the engine is turned off.  Just me guessing at the moment, could this be correct?

I have now narrowed down my choices to the 2 below and would appreciate any opinions on regarding the above.  I’ve been in touch with Hyundai UK and they will only endorse the use of the Shell Helix’s below, with the Ultra Extra being there favoured choice.  For some reason they won’t have anything to do with me using oil starting with a 0W, so have decide to play safe and stick with what they recommend.

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-68976-shell-helix-ultra-5w-40-fully-synthetic-engine-oil.aspx

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-68973-shell-helix-ultra-extra-5w-30-premium-fully-synthetic-engine-oil.aspx

Thanks again for any feedback.

[StarSeeker]

I use this
The company boasts that it's products outperforms Mobil1 (the strange thing is that Mobil never argued on this...)
I think it's just fine; can't tell that there is any difference to the original Shell(?) ones though.

This is a ACEA A5/B5 oil designed for economy and is not suitable for diesels. As it's not specified, I assume it's the '04 and not the '08 spec as well. The '08 revision significantly increased the robustness which implies the earlier versions were lacking in protection.

It might be suitable for petrol but I can't find the information. Can someone with a petrol 1.4 tell us the ACEA specification recommended, and for that matter all the petrol engines?

My UK owner’s manual says:

1.4L / 1.6L / 2.0L Petrol Engines.  API Services SL or SM, ACEA A3 or above.

I use this
The company boasts that it's products outperforms Mobil1 (the strange thing is that Mobil never argued on this...)
I think it's just fine; can't tell that there is any difference to the original Shell(?) ones though.

This is a ACEA A5/B5 oil designed for economy and is not suitable for diesels. As it's not specified, I assume it's the '04 and not the '08 spec as well. The '08 revision significantly increased the robustness which implies the earlier versions were lacking in protection.

It might be suitable for petrol but I can't find the information. Can someone with a petrol 1.4 tell us the ACEA specification recommended, and for that matter all the petrol engines?

My UK owner’s manual says:

1.4L / 1.6L / 2.0L Petrol Engines.  API Services SL or SM, ACEA A3 or above.

The ACEA sequences are:
A1/B1 -> A5/B5, A being petrol B diesel but essentially these are equal and most oils will say both A and B together. These are economy (thinner) oils and will have a lower HTHS number (which indicates the ability to stay thick when hot). I can see no reason to choose these oils personally.

A3/B3 -> A4/B4, these are oils not primarily considering economy and will perhaps be a little thicker but of course still within the viscosity range denoted by the nXnn numbers.  The HTHS number will always be higher and thus more suited to turbo-charged and/or hard driven cars that can raise the oil temperature above ordinary levels. An alternative is to just use a higher viscosity to start with. While this can work fine when you are racing it, your economy will suffer if the oil is not raised to the higher temperature.

So A3 or above means: A3 or A4, not A5! So the Amsoil is not the right one by my understanding for the petrol 1.4; even if it's a really good oil, it's not designed for the engine (according to Hy).

Forget the API designation, these are American standards and for whatever reason seem not as tight nor as specific as the ACEA.

ACEA Cx are polution standards and they will be specified when an exhaust filter is used (DPF or CAT), if these are specified for your model/engine you must use one of these oils.

[Gibber]

Thought this guide was pretty good 

http://www.driverstechnologyassociation.co.uk/oils.htm

[StarSeeker]

Thought this guide was pretty good 

http://www.driverstechnologyassociation.co.uk/oils.htm

Thanks, think I might go for the Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40, it seems more dedicated to a petrol engine than the Shell Helix Ultra Extra 5W-30.

Thought this guide was pretty good 

http://www.driverstechnologyassociation.co.uk/oils.htm

Looks like a nice overview, however I disagree with this quote: "B5 Combines B1 fuel economy with B3/B4 performance".

The HTHS number is mutually exclusive for B4 and B5. HTHS is a very important indicator of an oil's ability to retain film thickness with heat and pressure, such as you might get in a turbocharger, valve cams or cam chains. I'm guessing here about which mechanical parts might stress the oil but I'm of the opinion that a robust oil is more important to me than some miniscule fuel economy gain that might expose it to greater wear. HTHS for a B4 will always be at least equal or in practice significantly higher than for a B5 (economy) oil because HTHS works against economy.  A dilemma that with pressure from governments might be solved with engine longevity the sacrifice.

If your car specifies B4 I don't think you can assume B5 is the same (or better). I'm not going to consider B5 for my diesel until I cannot get any B4.

Actual shear resistance could be improved by simply increasing the viscosity but the extra drag will be felt all the time, even when extra viscosity is not needed to resist wear. Much better to use an oil in the correct viscosity range for everyday protection and then get one with a high enough HTHS to prop it up while it is superheated in the turbo bearings for instance. A HTHS value higher than required is also of no (additional) benefit. The oil blender must balance all these considerations and more and you must choose which of his concoctions best meet the needs of your engine.

Hy have made your first step in your choice easy; use the ACEA specification they tell you to! The next step is to choose the one within that spec that you like the best.

Even if you don't pick the best (or leave it to the dealer) at least it will still be adequate for your warranty.

Thought this guide was pretty good 

http://www.driverstechnologyassociation.co.uk/oils.htm

Thanks, think I might go for the Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40, it seems more dedicated to a petrol engine than the Shell Helix Ultra Extra 5W-30.

IIRC the "extra" tag is for a lower SAPS oil than the "ordinary" Ultra. I haven't looked to see if it actually meets any of the ACEA Cx specs but even if not, it might be kinder to the CAT. The 1.4 petrol would I expect (guess) be gentle on the oil and if so one of the more robust oils would be unnecessary. The Ultra 5w40 I think is a B4 oil and as such perhaps more suitable for the CRDi engines.

[Gibber]

I agree, and will be choosing the 5w30 and paying a little bit more for the "extra". It's in specs and has less SAPS.

Sent from my HTC Desire

[StarSeeker]

The Ultra 5w40 I think is a B4 oil and as such perhaps more suitable for the CRDi engines.

Yes I think that the Ultra is a B4, but I think also that the Ultra Extra is a B4 as well.  The link below from Shell's website gave me some concern, as according to this link, they only recommend the Ultra Extra for Diesel?

http://www-static.shell.com/static/public/downloads/products_services/on_the_road/oils_lubricants/shell_helix_pkg/shell_helix_grade_selection_guide.pdf

This is another reason, for me favouring the 5W-40 Ultra.

[Gibber]

The Ultra 5w40 I think is a B4 oil and as such perhaps more suitable for the CRDi engines.

Yes I think that the Ultra is a B4, but I think also that the Ultra Extra is a B4 as well.  The link below from Shell's website gave me some concern, as according to this link, they only recommend the Ultra Extra for Diesel?

http://www-static.shell.com/static/public/downloads/products_services/on_the_road/oils_lubricants/shell_helix_pkg/shell_helix_grade_selection_guide.pdf

This is another reason, for me favouring the 5W-40 Ultra.

The product description for the ultra extra states the following,

5W-30 Fully synthetic motor oil
Shell's most advanced technology for the latest gasoline and diesel engines
It is five times as effective at removing sludge than mineral oil

Shell Helix Ultra Extra Suitability

High performance modern petrol engines
Fuel-injected models fitted with catalytic converters


Sent from my HTC Desire

[StarSeeker]

The product description for the ultra extra states the following,

5W-30 Fully synthetic motor oil
Shell's most advanced technology for the latest gasoline and diesel engines
It is five times as effective at removing sludge than mineral oil

Shell Helix Ultra Extra Suitability

High performance modern petrol engines
Fuel-injected models fitted with catalytic converters


Sent from my HTC Desire

Yes…I’ve read this also, but I am still convinced that the Ultra Extra has been more tailored for a diesel engine.  As far as I’m aware, the Ultra and Ultra Extra are both Group III Base Oils and the main differences, is the Ultra Extra has more additives to meet the needs of a diesel engine.  One example being, is that the Ultra is not suited to vehicles with a Particulate Filter and being my 1.4 petrol don’t have one, I don’t see it as an issue.

I’m sure the Ultra Extra is fine for a 1.4 petrol, just thinking it may be giving me more additives than I really need.  If the Ultra is good enough for a Ferrari, it should be good enough for my Hyundai 

The product description for the ultra extra states the following,

5W-30 Fully synthetic motor oil
Shell's most advanced technology for the latest gasoline and diesel engines
It is five times as effective at removing sludge than mineral oil

Shell Helix Ultra Extra Suitability

High performance modern petrol engines
Fuel-injected models fitted with catalytic converters


Sent from my HTC Desire

Yes…I’ve read this also, but I am still convinced that the Ultra Extra has been more tailored for a diesel engine.  As far as I’m aware, the Ultra and Ultra Extra are both Group III Base Oils and the main differences, is the Ultra Extra has more additives to meet the needs of a diesel engine.  One example being, is that the Ultra is not suited to vehicles with a Particulate Filter and being my 1.4 petrol don’t have one, I don’t see it as an issue.

I’m sure the Ultra Extra is fine for a 1.4 petrol, just thinking it may be giving me more additives than I really need.  If the Ultra is good enough for a Ferrari, it should be good enough for my Hyundai 

I think it's the other way around... the extra has less (SAPS) additives which makes it friendlier for CAT converters of which I'd assume your petrol car has one... dunno though. Do you know?

I might need to refresh my memory before being specific but I think the original Ultra without the extra is a B4 (robust oil) and the later Extra is a more "modern" formulation catering to either economy or exhaust filters or both... A5/B5 and Cx oil.

I'm singling out this quote: "If the Ultra is good enough for a Ferrari, it should be good enough for my Hyundai "

Ferraris do not set the benchmark for Hy. Sure some engines will have similar needs to another brand but each oil's suitability for our engines has to be evaluated against Hy's needs, not other's.