[donc]

LPG will rise significantly in price in the next 24 months. Currently it is not subject to the same government taxes as petrol is. This however is due to change shortly, and will more than likely rise by about 65c per litre.

What country are you in blawler? - Any significant increase in LPG (especially something as huge as a 65c increase!!!) is at direct odds with what the politico's here are saying .. do you have any references for this claim?

[blawler]

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/st ... 01,00.html

Now this article says these increases MAY be scrapped.. But it shows that they have been implemented.

This article mentions 12.5 cpl increase due to a government fuel excise being place on LPG in the coming years. Which explains the reason behind the LPG government rebate.

Also my figure of 65CPL is an alarmist of what it could become. Government gouges petrol  users atm moment. Fuel stations only make about 1.2 c per litre. Government excise currently sits at 39%

basically if we pay 1.50 per litre. 39% of that goes to the government. Now say this translates immediately to LPG...

an LPG cost of 65c per litre would rise to 90 cents per litre. Factor in the less econonmy you get from LPG and it starts lookng less attractive...

LPG averaes about 30% higher fuel consumption.

Also once demand goes up (More passenger cars using it) the price could rise. (Profiteering).

I read an article in a 4wd magazine recently regarding the choice between diesel and petrol. Their conclusion that Diesel can no longer be chosen because of its better economy. As the price gap increases so does the cost of running. LPG will be in the same boat as this in the next 10 years.

Their conclusion was that you should buy a diesel car for environmental reasons. This would also relate to LPG. As these two offer significantly less carbon emissions. I also believe in the next few years this will be a wise economical decision. Because my prediction is, whilst the cost of LPG will rise, and the gap between petrol and diesel prices will still be significant. I think that a Carbon tax will be included into the registrations of cars. And therefore the more environmentally friendly cars will be cheaper to register...

Anyway thats kinda very off topic Sorry for the brain dump

[Lakes]

why not just use natural gas?

[donc]

Hi blawler,

I think there will be a different outcome (to what you suggest). There won't be any massive increases in the price of LPG, and I'm prepared to invest accordingly - There's a few key elements to this, one of whch is contained in the article you referenced and relates to Govt policy:

"The most likely option is to delay or scrap the planned introduction of excise on LPG as proposed in 2011"

The other relates to Co2 emissions per litre of fuel consumed by each of the three major fuels:

ULP      2.3 kg
Diesel   2.7 kg
LPG      1.6 kg

( source, Australian Govt Dept of the Environment
http://www.environment.gov.au/settlemen ... nment.html )

Obviously Bio fuels will also impact on all of this but not an extent it will impact on LPG excise IMO.

[donc]

Hi Lakes,

It's called the Emmdale roadhouse and it's about 85km from Wilcania on the Cobar side - I took the pic below showing the old fella filling my X-Trail just to show there is still a full-service Service Station left in NSW! - Also if you look closely, he has a shifting spanner in his back pocket... he used that to get the pump working when we pulled in. Took him about half-an-hour before it would pump fuel!

Also (and kinda sad) I notice the servo is now for sale at $295,000 ... gee I'm tempted ... would be a nice lifestyle change, and it comes with a liquor license!!

ref: http://www.realestate.com.au/realestate ... /104720483

PS - And yes, it is also the local Surf Club (gotta love that!)

[bikejockey]

I chose diesel mostly for environmental reasons although the performance of the diesel motor was an attraction.

My reasoning:

- Even with the higher diesel pricing I would spend much less on fuel than the current V6 wagon I own, and a bit less than if I bought an equivalent sized petrol vehicle
- CO2 emissions are pretty low even taking into account the higher carbon content of diesel
- The ratio between city and highway fuel consumption appears to be much lower for diesel than for petrol vehicles. This may be common for small passenger vehicles, for the Peugeot 307 touring the ratio difference is quite high, for the i30 less so but still significant.
- The idea of doing around 1000Km before refilling appeals (especially as it's diesel fuel!)

Since then I've been a bit bothered by the fact that the i30 only achieves an 'average' Green Vehicle rating (3.5 stars) so my environmental aspirations are looking a bit tattered. The CRDi meets EuroIV but it looks like no other manufacturer of small diesels does any better at present. Don't know why the petrol model is only 3.5 stars though.

I wasn't concerned about recouping the initial cost. Maybe (if diesel passenger vehicles become popular in Aus) I'll get a better trade-in for the vehicle at next change-over. Maybe none of us will be driving fossil-fuel cars by then (unlikely). I do very few Ks in a year (4000 last year) although my partner does more so I guess she'll have most of the driving pleasure!

4 months down the track (and still no car) what would I buy? Probably nothing at present. There's more change on the horizon than when I started looking at the beginning of the year. I'm interested in both the i20 Getz replacement and the LPG hybrid from Hyundai and other manufacturers will have competitive offerings.

I don't anticipate driving a hydrogen or electric car any time soon though, unless I get a second-hand Getz and convert it myself - now there's a thought...

The other relates to Co2 emissions per litre of fuel consumed by each of the three major fuels:

ULP 2.3 kg
Diesel 2.7 kg
LPG 1.6 kg

To get the real comparison there needs to be a conversion to /km.  If this is done for the i30, I would guess that the diesel (125g/km) would be ommitting less Co2 per km than the petrol.  LPG is not currently available in the i30 as a factory option.  

I've been to http://www.environment.gov.au/settlemen ... nment.html and some some calculations.
Now as I do 50 000km per year, a petrol i30 would produce 8280kg Co2 while the diesel i30 produces 6345kg Co2.  Looks like I'm being kinder to the environment with the diesel.

Bob

[Lakes]

That's the place don! love to see places like that m8, thats the real thing!

I'm not debateing about emisions but it is common knowledge LPG is the best thats why only electric or LPG fork lifts can opperate indoors.
also the RTA web page don't seem to recomend diesel cars they like Hybrid or thats what it looks like to me when you check there green car guide.
but even useing a horse and cart cause some form of polution.

[donc]

Looks like I'm being kinder to the environment with the diesel.
Bob

No doubt about it Bob.

[donc]

That's the place don! love to see places like that m8, thats the real thing!

I'm not debateing about emisions but it is common knowledge LPG is the best thats why only electric or LPG fork lifts can opperate indoors.
also the RTA web page don't seem to recomend diesel cars they like Hybrid or thats what it looks like to me when you check there green car guide.
but even useing a horse and cart cause some form of polution.

Hey Lakes,

Yep, isn't it awesome to see places like this still around? IMO we have lost way too much of Aus in our cities (and added far too much BS), fortunately the bush still holds a lot of characters and tradition!

Working in the mining sector (vehicle emissions tend to be important in large enclosed underground mines where people can easily be gassed), the matter of particulate polutants from diesel fuels is of vital importance - so much so, all diesels on our sites must have 'scrubbers' fitted to clean the exhaust of particulate matter. Not so with LPG because LPG emits very few particulate polutants.

I guess like everything, there are so many circumstance-specific issues that no one can suggest a 'one solution fits all' - it would be ignorant to try - for some people in some siuations diesel is best, for others ULP, others again LPG. That's just life - we are all different with different needs!

[bumpkin]

Hmmm interesting topic

I bought my brand new 2008 1.6 petrol for the same price as the dealer had an ex-demonstrator 2.0CRD which was approx 8 months old.

I preferred the look of the sport model, which goes along with Hemmi and the various SR owners.

In the UK to recoup the value of a like for like purchase for a low mileage user like myself would take far longer than I will probably own the car and diesel is approx 20p per litre more expensive than petrol.

Having had three Imprezas the savings even on a petrol model for me are huge, I am getting approx an extra 150 miles per tank of petrol so can afford to actually ENJOY driving my car without worrying about the cost.

Brian

[donc]

Having commenced this thread by mentioning how extraneous factors can impact on our choice of purchase – and for my wife and me, how the choice of diesel -v- ULP more relates to the availability of fuel than any values offered by the car itself.

I tend not to think a lot about forums when offline, although filling up this morning reminded me of discussions here when I saw the queue at the diesel bower at my local servo. A picture tells a thousand words…  I’m one of two cars pulled up at one of the eight ULP bowsers (under the protective awning) and looking at the (one) diesel bowser (note no cover over the diesel pump). The 4x4 ute and tojo are filling up and you can see a semi trailer behind the ute waiting for the pump.  There was another ute waiting behind the semi. Just a normal day.

I know this doesn’t impact much on our city members (plenty of servo’s with dozens of bowsers), but just wanted to show it can be a real issue out here…

I looked at both petrol and diesel on paper. I did like the diesel option. My main reason for going petrol was that I really wanted the SR package which was only available with the petrol engine. Plus there was an even longer wait for the diesel cars.

Donc, I checked out the petrol stations that I pass on the way to work this morning and a fair number of them have the diesel bowser in very odd and out of the way spots. I can imagine that being a big consideration (after reading your reason) even here in Sydney.

[Lakes]

Don, no problems like that here m8. only line up's i see are for discount unlead like they sell unlead @ $1.38 with the 4 cent discount and you see a line of cars out onto  the hwy and the servo has about 20+ pumps, then you look at what side of the car you have to fill up, so get a discution on if you should buy a left hand side fill up car or a right hand side fill up car

I was giving my i30 a bit of a blow out today and love the feel of the little turbo diesel it pull's well shifting at just 2,200 i was doing some flat sifts and she go's ok.
a BP servo near work has three rows of Diesel bowsers all under cover for semi's and B doubles and same amount of ubnlead pumps the other side of the servo that include a few diesel pumps, most diesel pumps here are in with the petrol pumps. so no problems.

[alderny]

Petrol versus Diesel - my (British) point of view. The arithmetic says it all - petrol wins hands down, and here's why:

In the UK petrol currently retails for 111.9p/ltr and diesel for 123.9p/ltr. The diesel version of the i30 retails for exactly £2,000 more (model for model). Using the UK government figures for fuel consumption, the most optimistic you could possibly achieve would be 54.3mpg (5.2 Litre/100 km) for the 1.4 petrol and 68.9mpg (4.1 Litre/100 km) for the 1.6 diesel (these models having a roughly equivalent performance). Putting these figures into an Excel worksheet and using the 'goal seeking' function, someone owning a diesel would need to drive 761,860 miles (1,226,038km) to just break even!

Even if you bias the figures heavily in favour of diesel, then the petrol option still wins. For example, if we assume 40mpg (7.1 litre/100km) for the 1.4 petrol and 70mpg (4.0 litre/100km) for the 1.6 diesel, then the diesel owner would still need to drive an intergalactic 194,647 miles (313,239km) just to break even! Please check my arithmetic though.

[donc]

Hi Alderny - Seems to be about the same ratio of price difference in the UK as Aus. Pundits suggest the difference will only increase as Carbon Trading enters law. Diesel is the highest polutant of the three major fuels and (at least in Au and NZ) our Govt's plan to tax it accordingly on an upward sliding scale. The offset is that we will be able to purchase carbon credits for replacing diesel with lower emitting fuels. Considering this also applies to oil company's, it's going to be interesting to see how this all impacts on the long-term viability of distilate.

[TheBunyip]

Diesel is the highest pollutant of the three major fuels and (at least in Au and NZ) our Govt's plan to tax it accordingly on an upward sliding scale.

OK donc we have established that on the basis of your experience you have good reasons not like Diesel. Whilst we could get into an unproductive flaming war on whether Diesel or Petrol is the worst polluting liquid fuel I do not think we would gain anything from the effort. Neither of us is likely to change our minds in spite of the fact that we both like to see ourselves as open minded. We would, I hope, also agree that LPG as a sole fuel for spark ignition or as a blend with diesel has many advantages on the emissions front.

However  can I invite you to share what you know about the plans of the Govt's of Australia and New Zealand that suggests they wish to penalise the use of Diesel. I find that a little strange with the commencement of the South Australian project to build a Coal to Liquid project. The state Gov't in Western Australia has been trying for years to encourage the building of a Gas to Liquid (Diesel) plant. The Gov't in the Northern Territory has made positive noises supporting proposals for smaller scale GTL plants there too. I know of no objection from the Federal Gov't to these ideas.

As for New Zealand well I have little (say zero) knowledge of their politics. (Sorry to any Kiwis reading this.) I would find it a bit odd for NZ politicians to be hostile to diesel when they have funded the projects to use algae grown on Sewage Farms as part of the water treatment process to provide a feedstock for Biodiesel, The NZ politicians were happy to be photographed when the first of the Biodiesel fueled vehicles hit the road.

I assume you are not referring to the Australian Governments proposals for "Carbon Trading". I could be wrong. When first published, the local media made much of the suggestion for protecting motorists by reducing the excise tax on petrol to negate the impact of what will be a carbon tax if not in name. I downloaded and read the proposals. Petrol is not singled out for special treatment. The "fuel" used by motorists is to benefit under the transitional scheme until all carbon emitting fuels are taxed in some as yet to be determined way.  Have I missed something?  Has some Australian politician said publicly that only Petrol will benefit?

[kinesiologykid]

Petrol versus Diesel - my (British) point of view. The arithmetic says it all - petrol wins hands down, and here's why:

In the UK petrol currently retails for 111.9p/ltr and diesel for 123.9p/ltr. The diesel version of the i30 retails for exactly £2,000 more (model for model). Using the UK government figures for fuel consumption, the most optimistic you could possibly achieve would be 54.3mpg (5.2 Litre/100 km) for the 1.4 petrol and 68.9mpg (4.1 Litre/100 km) for the 1.6 diesel (these models having a roughly equivalent performance). Putting these figures into an Excel worksheet and using the 'goal seeking' function, someone owning a diesel would need to drive 761,860 miles (1,226,038km) to just break even!

Even if you bias the figures heavily in favour of diesel, then the petrol option still wins. For example, if we assume 40mpg (7.1 litre/100km) for the 1.4 petrol and 70mpg (4.0 litre/100km) for the 1.6 diesel, then the diesel owner would still need to drive an intergalactic 194,647 miles (313,239km) just to break even! Please check my arithmetic though.

Hi Alderny,
I wish they had the a smaller petrol in Australia, the smallest petrol we can get is 2 litres, which does 7.2 l/100km, so it only takes about 100,000 kms to break even.
Although the 1.6 diesel should have massively more power than a 1.4 petrol.
A 1.6 petrol would be ideal.

[donc]

Hiya Bunyip (cool handle!),

I’m really enjoying the lack of flames on this forum, and likewise hope maturity prevails and we don’t see anyone start to flame other members (did I say I think the little diesel i30 is a fantastic car?). Most of the commentary here is generic, although you are (sadly) correct to suggest that sometimes good people can take commentary like this as a personal affront and will attack (flame) just to prove a point. Let’s not let that happen!

Your sig seems to place you in the UK and Aus – Which are you in now? Maybe your not seeing what I’m being hammered with on the TV every night The comments I’m writing largely reflect the current media bombardment (in Aus) over fuels and a range of Govt greenhouse initiatives. I will dump some links at the end of this post (just a small no of the many available), but really a simple Google search should get you into the mind of our current political climate on this topic.

I really hope diesel fuels do not become proportionately more expensive than ULP or LPG because IMO this would be bad for everyone... However if recent commentary is a guide; if consideration is given to the tiny percentage of distillate used by small diesel cars when compared to the massive amounts used by road transport and industry (noted amongst the highest polluters), I suspect the pundits are right – distillate will become proportionately ever more expensive because our Govts will tax it that way - at least that's what they are saying they intend to do.

Cheers -

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,,2384941 ... 46,00.html
the decision to reintroduce the CPI increase on the diesel excise levy, which will result in increased (and inflationary) costs to transport, increased costs to mining (and reduced productivity and hence the tax take) and increased (and inflationary) costs to agriculture, threatening farmers' livelihoods.

http://www.liberal.org.au/news.php?Id=263
Rudd's diesel tax increase shows he's not serious about keeping downward pressure on fuel prices

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008 ... 245045.htm
The Senate has blocked the Federal Government's plans to increase the diesel fuel excise on 350,000 heavy vehicles.

http://www.liberal.org.au/news.php?Id=252
Assistant Treasurer and Minister for Consumer Affairs, Chris Bowen, has been caught asleep at the wheel after he told a press conference he was unaware of the Government's plan to increase diesel taxes on the transport industry.

New Zealand
"Diesel Tax to replace Road User Charges?"
http://www.speirsfinance.co.nz/includes ... x?ID=28173
"Diesel Tax to replace Road User Charges?"
The recent Road Transport Forum New Zealand conference held in Christchurch called on the Government to review the RUC system and consider a single fuel tax charging regime for diesel vehicles in the light of the Government introducing a recently announced regional fuel tax.

[alderny]

...I wish they had the smaller petrol in Australia, the smallest petrol we can get is 2 litres, which does 7.2 l/100km, so it only takes about 100,000 kms to break even.
Although the 1.6 diesel should have massively more power than a 1.4 petrol.
A 1.6 petrol would be ideal.

Hi Kinesiologykid! There must be some logic to Hyundai's marketing, but here in the UK we can't get the 2.0 litre petrol version. We have a choice of 1.4 or 1.6 petrol, or 1.6 or 2.0 diesel. The only difference between the 1.4 and 1.6 petrol engines being a 10.45mm increase in stroke.

Regarding performance, then the 1.4 petrol is about the same as the 1.6 diesel, although the latter has more low down grunt. However, the diesel car weighs a lot more (102kgs) so returns a similar performance - here are the manufacturer's figures:

1.4 petrol: 0-62mph in Seconds = 11.7, max speed = 187 kph.
1.6 diesel: 0-62mph in Seconds = 11.6, max speed = 188 kph.

The 1.6 petrol is marginally better than either of these, but the magazine reviewers (if they are to be believed) claim that the 1.4 version is smoother revving.

Hope this helps.

[Lakes]

0 to 60 (100kph ) and not saying how long it takes eather to get to there top speed is not a very good guide to a cars performance. but here in Australia all we need to really know is 0. to 120kph (70mph) as over that and we don't drive for long m8.
also was that manuel or Auto? as i would think 0 to 60mph the auto would beat the manuel.on average.
like say you get ten different drivers 10 in auto's 10 in manul the auto's would get more consistent results only the reaction time of each driver would vary. with manul would be a big difference between drivers. as shifting gear can take some people a lot longer than others not to mention missed shifts when they try to do it as quick as possible. also do you relise just how much difference in distance one tenth of a second is to 60mph. there can be a big difference specialy as they are still excellerating.
it's very easy to sit back and compare what journalists give you as performance figures. but do you really know what they mean?
i'm only talking from years of racing and Drag Racing, thats how i can tell you what a tenth of a second means m8. i'm not trying to be smart or nasty, i'm just trying to state facts , so people are not misled.
 cheers m8

[TheBunyip]

Hi donc,

Hear, Hear. The majority of i30 lovers are a pretty civilised bunch. Most go out of their way to avoid flame wars here. After all anyone who can avoid following the herd and buy a quality car from a once derided manufacturer is capable of independent thought. Long may it continue.

TheBunyip is currently spending a few months at home downunder. I find American, no sorry, that should be Australian TV pretty dire.   I long ago ceased to expect politicians and their advisers to be any good at identifying the consequences of their half baked money raising schemes as those poor Kiwis also know to their cost. (Just ask a Brit about the recent "10p tax" wheeze.)

Having seen far too many summers I am totally cheesed off with the politicians in the whole of the Western World. There must be some good ones but the activity of the majority hides whatever little rays of shining light that there may be that would get me excited. I happen to believe that politics is extremely important but I just do not think any politician should serve more than two continuous terms without prior and post politics real world experience. If politics were seen as a short term contribution and not a career I think it would work better.

There it is. Now you know that I am a bit of a Ratbag with ideas that would be pretty unpopular. It is probably a good thing that I do not expect to ever get a chance to see my idea put to the test. Whatever you do... Do not get me started on British politicians as I can loose all pretense of sanity pretty quick. I am beginning to wonder if there is some secret rule that says that candidates for political office must be incompetent. It seems to apply here in Australia as well as in dear old Blighty. That last sentence is a real compliment for both Australia and the UK never the less.

Just to illustrate a point. Why have I not heard any politician screaming that the Diesel Transport industry should clean itself up by a mass adoption of the 20% LPG blending/injecting technology that has been pioneered here in Australia? http://www.d-gas.com.au/ Major emission Improvements and improved fuel economies for a tiny investment for anyone clocking up Australian transport kilometers.The Gov't Grants are but a sop. Instillation should be mandatory IMO. Then go on to retro-fit some of the decent exhaust filtration that other countries have been demanding. OK, exhaust filtration is not yet a mature technology but it does work well enough.

Volkswagen now has (50 state) approval to sell the Jetta TDI in the USA with their more stringent emission requirements than are currently demanded in the Euro zone. For me that is proof that Clean Diesel is not a myth while I reckon that we will still see further improvements.

You know this is an extremely long winded way of saying that Diesel, especially the heavy transport kind, can be pretty polluting but with the possible improvements to existing technology it does not have to be that way. In a year or so new Heavy Diesel transport should be able to quickly catch up with the standards now being set with Diesel cars.

To (almost) quote the Duke of Edinburgh. To fix it,  all they have to do is "Pull their finger out"

I say... A bit of a rant now and again does wonders for ones sanity if not the Blood Pressure does it not.  Rant Ends

[donc]

I say... A bit of a rant now and again does wonders for ones sanity if not the Blood Pressure does it not

It does wonders old boy, simply wonders

PS - Somewhow I don't think we are that many generations apart  

[kinesiologykid]

My car is an SX 1.6 Diesel.

BUT if I went back to live in England (Warrington) I would buy a 1.6 Petrol Estate.
In Australia they don't have the estate and they don't have the 1.6 Petrol.
I checked the UK website, it gets 6.2 l/100km, with the seats up has 75 lites more space, and with seats down has 145 litres more space.
Its 43 kgs heavier.

Pity it rains so much in Warrington, and so much traffic!
Tasmania has great weather and much less traffic.

Oh and before anyone asks - Manchester United!
I saw them beat Benfica in the European Cup Final (most of you were not even born then).

[Dazzler]

Hey kinesiologykid

I was 12 in 1968 how old were you (using kid in your moniker is obviously poetic license!)

[donc]

I've heard of Manchester United, but I'm afraid I haven't heard of Benfica, but '68 was the year I watched Souths defeat Manly in the NRL Grand Final - now that was a great game!!

[TheBunyip]

kinesiologykid raises an Interesting point when he says....

My car is an SX 1.6 Diesel. BUT if I went back to live in England (Warrington) I would buy a 1.6 Petrol Estate.

Australian motor companies seem to always offer bigger engines than are needed in the same car in other markets. Australian roads may not be up to the same standard as other countries enjoy but they are not that bad from a driving point of view. From a safety point of view

On paper at least the performance differences are trivial. About the only certainty I have is that Australians see slightly lower fuel efficiency for no obvious gain.

As someone who drives in city traffic and longer all day hauls at max (legal) speeds on the flat and mountains in Australia and Europe this is one ignorant old fool who cannot see the need for these engine size differences from personal experience "behind the wheel". Unless of course it has something to do with the fact that I think Australian fuels have traditionally been formulated to a slightly lower standard. (Diesel Cetaine ratings are lower in Oz)

Perhaps someone will be able to enlighten kinesiologykid and I. You might even be able to convince us that it has nothing to do with marketing and selling at a higher price. [/color]

[kinesiologykid]

Perhaps someone will be able to enlighten kinesiologykid and I. You might even be able to convince us that it has nothing to do with marketing and selling at a higher price.

I think its the public, not the carmaker that is to blame. Also Europe has had much dearer fuel for a long time now. Australians are used to driving big gas guzzlers and downsizing for many means a 2.0 litre car. The US is even worse, I have checked some of their forums, their egos would have them spend half their wages on fuel rather than give up their Hummers!
I remember when Toyota Corollas were 1.6, and Mitsubishi Lancers were way under 2.0 litre. Now the cars slowly get bigger with each new model.

Even though I read many reviews I missed the one that said the i30 wagon may be coming to Oz in 2009. I would have waited. But don't expect a 1.6 petrol.
I think a 1.6 petrol would sell like hot cakes - 6.2 l/100km in a car the size of an i30 wagon!
And apparently the smaller engines are much cheaper!

Okay everyone, phone your dealer and ask if they are bringing out the i30 1.6 petrol wagon!
Lets create it.

[TheBunyip]

Hi kinesiologykid

I think its the public, not the carmaker that is to blame.

I have been away from Oz for too long. I have long wondered if the Yanks have thought that the minimum weight for a baby car is two tons.  :cry:

Take a Look at the Hyundai sales figures for the USA in August here. http://www.hyundai-blog.com/index.php/2008/09/09/hyundai-car-sales-report-august-2008/#more-406
It looks as if even our American Cousins are beginning to get their heads around the benefits of driving human scale cars and not 'battle tanks'. Unfortunately by only dropping back to the delightful Sonata they still have some way to go. As there are not yet enough i30s built to let them in on the deal we shall just have to hope they will embrace the i30 Wagon to be called the Elantra Wagon, I think, when it is released in the USA. But then again the Yanks might look for a 3.0l V6.

The only consolation for those who already have one is the continuing good sales of the i30 here.[/color]

[Dazzler]

Okay everyone, phone your dealer and ask if they are bringing out the i30 1.6 petrol wagon!
Lets create it.

Or send them a link to this thread