[Tylenol]

Hi guys,

Long time reader, first time poster

I received the call i've been waiting 6 months for today... my i30 CRDi manual SLX in vivid blue will be arriving next week.

The first question I have is - does changing your own oil void your manufacturers warranty? I plan on changing the oil as soon as I get it home from the dealership, once again at 200kms, then on the Hyundai schedule. I'd like to do the oil changes myself as i've always done with my 2001 Elantra GLS.

Second question - is changing the oil & oil filter of a CRDi the same as changing the oil & filter of a normal petrol car?

Third question - What oil is recommended for the changes? If I am going to be performing the changes myself i'd be buying the oil from supercheap auto in a bulk tin if possible.

Thanks,

Jordan

[Dazzler]

Hi Tylenol (sounds like a hay fever medicine   )

If you buy the genuine filters (they are a canister type only the filter needs replacing not the steel outside part) and keep the receipts and use Fully synthetic oil that meets or exceeds B4 spec cant see how you will void the warranty.

However you will need to prove somehow that everything that is listed in the book for each 15,000 service has been addressed. My suggestion would be to do interim 7500 oil and filter changes yourself and have a qualified mechanic do the 15,000, 30,000 etc.. services (and note the service book accordingly)

See these links re: oils...

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1336

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=137

[Tylenol]

Thanks for the quick reply!!

So you're using the 5w30 Castrol? I am currently using the 10W60 in my petrol Elantra and noticed that only the 0W40 mentions Diesel engines on the packaging. I wonder why that is? I guess if 0W40 is rated for the i30, surely it can take 10W60 in Summer?

I will ask the dealership in regards to the logbook... hopefully they will just stamp it.

Is an oil change on a diesel the same as on a petrol? How do you change just the inside of the filter and not the outside?

[Dazzler]

Thanks for the quick reply!!

So you're using the 5w30 Castrol? I am currently using the 10W60 in my petrol Elantra and noticed that only the 0W40 mentions Diesel engines on the packaging. I wonder why that is? I guess if 0W40 is rated for the i30, surely it can take 10W60 in Summer?

I will ask the dealership in regards to the logbook... hopefully they will just stamp it.

Is an oil change on a diesel the same as on a petrol? How do you change just the inside of the filter and not the outside?

I would use 5w30 rather than 10w60 (too thick for most modern cars...I.M.O.)  

Here is a picture of what you get for the diesel filter (specific to the diesel model) you just replace the inside of the canister after draing the oil out of the sump...

[eye30]

Is an oil change on a diesel the same as on a petrol? How do you change just the inside of the filter and not the outside?

Your Handbook you got with the car will detail the oil for your car.

Previouse threads have discussed the oil required for i30's which ahve or do not have CPF's.

If unsure ask your dealer.

PS. Where are you located - OZ or UK or elsewhere?  please put location in profile as it helps when discussing etc.

[i30Dave]

There is an oil guide in the downloads section here

http://www.ypadacars.gotdns.com/i30/i30.html

[LuciferDarklord]

Be careful, if you are not a qualified mechanic that works in a suitable service centre, and something goes wrong you might be in the poo.  Protect your warranty, sleep easy - pay a mech to do it.  I always go to a hyundai dealer so they have absolutely no way to weasel out of warranty work if needed.

[Shambles]

... I always go to a hyundai dealer so they have absolutely no way to weasel out of warranty work if needed.

Amen to that brother  

[eye30]

... I always go to a hyundai dealer so they have absolutely no way to weasel out of warranty work if needed.

Amen to that brother  

as above.

[Tylenol]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I ask the question because I'd like to perform interim services... for example I'd like to perform an oil change the moment I get the car home from the dealership (picking up on Friday).

From reading your replies it seems the best way to go is to perform the interim changes myself using a filter purchased from the dealership and to supply my own oil for the scheduled services - that way they won't be able to tell that an interim service has been performed so my warranty should be fine.

Thanks again

I'd like to know what oil you selected.

I see where Dazz uses Castrol Edge 5W30 but I'm not sure that a xW30 might not be a bit marginal (thin) in the Summer heat, particularly on the mainland.

Popular alternatives seem to be 0W40 but I'm also not sure that a 0Wx is also not a bit thin on the cold end, seeing that it never really gets cold anywhere in Oz.

I was leaning to one of the 5W40 oils.  Possibly the 40 weight over the 30 would have a negative effect on fuel economy but I'm looking purely for best protection because I always keep my cars for a long time.

AMSOIL 5W40 European Synthetic (AFL) bubbled to the top of my list.  It's not one of the big players but I simply did not find anything negative other than most of the data found originates from AMSOIL itself.  

EDIT:  I want to clarify my suggestion that a 0w oil may be too thin.  In fact it is really much thicker at "cold" temperatures than at hot (where "hot" is its working viscosity, i.e., 0xnn @100^c) so a zero winter weight is not a problem in itself because it might already be too thick to work effectively anyway!

Where the concern is, is with the viscosity of the base oil used.  Without going on too much, Synthetic oils generally do not need additives to ensure good flow at low temperatures so they instead start with a fairly "thin" base (that in essence represents the winter weight) and then add "thickeners" to ensure it doesn't thin out too much as it gets hotter.  What this means is that if ever the thickeners break down the oil may fail to maintain sufficient viscosity and begin reverting to its base weight - which when hot is as thin as water.

Here is the point:  Oils that start with a very low base weight (in the case of synthetics the actual Winter or "w" weight) will need to be "pushed" with additives to hold that up when hot.  A spread of only 5w30 suggests a higher base weight with fewer VII (Viscosity Index Improvers) than one of 0w40.  In fact, to bridge the range 0w40 (Mobil 1 etc) you can almost guarantee that they will be good quality (read true synthetic) oils, not withstanding my reservation regarding the wide spread above.

Oils like Castrol Edge Sport 5w30, because (I suspect) need only bridge 25 viscosity "units" and not 40, can be and are made from cheaper base oil that is in fact derived from mineral oil.  However, unless you think I'm singling this out, from what I can gather, this is an excellent oil for situations that do not need a wide viscosity spread, which generally means temperate countries like Oz.  The benefit of its cheaper ingredients does seem to be passed on in the price as well, so all is good.

[Tylenol]

Pip,

I am considering either the Castrol Edge 10W40, Castrol RX Super 15W40 or Castrol GTX Diesel 15W40. All three of these oils seem to be in line with Hyundais recommendations and I've had nothing but good experiences with BP fuels and Castrol oils.

Cheers.
Ty

[Dazzler]

Hi Guys,

The latest version of Castrol Edge Sport 5W30 has been upgraded...But there are other viscosities in the same range.

They ran a motor for many hours flat out to test it ... couldn't find the link though  

[emacmark]

Hi guys,

I just wanted to add my opinion here on engine oil.

I have decided to use Nulon oils as they meet the required spec and are Aussie owned. I believe you can also get a 20 lt drum for around $160 which makes for good economy.

http://www.nulon.com.au/products.php?productName=100%_Synthetic_5W-40_Long_Life_Petrol_and_Diesel_Engine_Oil

[Tylenol]

An update:

I picked my car up from the dealer on Friday. I asked the salesperson to organise an oil filter or two for me when I went to pick the car up and they said they couldn't sell me the oil filters knowing that I was going to change the oil myself as it voids the warranty. I called the local service center to book in my 1000km service (already done 500kms and doing a 700k trip this weekend) and asked the service center to also perform an oil change on the car whilst it was in.

They refused to do the oil change, saying that Hyundai has specifically told them NOT to change the oil and filter so early in the vehicles life. Apparently they used to change the oil at 1000km service at car owners requests but they can no longer do it. It apparently has something to do with it causing the Hyundai cars to have worse oil/fuel consumption later on in life. I was told that if I was really concerned they COULD do a 6 month/7500km service during which they could change the oil.

That blows me away. I've always been told by people in the know that you need to change the oil filter straight away after delivery as it traps all the metal filings and rubbish left in the engine from manufacture, then to change it again after a couple of hundred kms, then again every 5000-10000km depending on whether the car is used for city or country driving.

I am concerned that leaving a brand new car with original filter and oil for 1Y/15,000kms is way too long.

Anyone heard anything similar?

[emacmark]

That blows me away. I've always been told by people in the know that you need to change the oil filter straight away after delivery as it traps all the metal filings and rubbish left in the engine from manufacture, then to change it again after a couple of hundred kms, then again every 5000-10000km depending on whether the car is used for city or country driving.

I'd consider that advice to be very well out of date. Modern manufacturers cannot give excellent warranties by leaving engines dirty after manufacture.

I have just got my i30 diesel and am not going to change oil until 7500km and i plan on doing 3200km next week (Tas to townsville).

I have just got my i30 diesel and am not going to change oil until 7500km

I've spent a lot of time boning up on this and I've decided to compromise also and swap out the original oil at 7500km.

Then change again at 15000km and probably continue to change at 15000 intervals after that.

Pip

[LuciferDarklord]

Guys, one other thing to consider is that filters are at their optimum just before they become clogged!!  This sounds weird but think about it, the fine particles fill up the tiny holes in the element and reduce the micron rating of the filter, to a point where the filter becomes a restriction beyond the flow rate required.  I have seen this in mechanical diesel injection pumps that are over-filtered, when someone changes the filter too early and they are always running in a mode before their optimum, increasing the size of particles to go thru.  Also, like mentioned before the engines seem to be run in on a dyno - where they probably change the filter and oil before installing it in the car.

filters are at their optimum just before they become clogged!!

Logic (and research) suggests is correct and applies to air filters also of course.  I'm keeping both for the recommended period.  Air filter by distance travelled (i.e., as recommended) and oil filter at each oil change.  Oil change intervals are still up in the air because I haven't finally decided whether to go 7500 or 15000. I'm definitely leaning towards 15000km with perhaps a sample evaluation at 10000 just to see how its going as I will not be doing a lotta miles.

Pip

[Tylenol]

Guys, one other thing to consider is that filters are at their optimum just before they become clogged!!  This sounds weird but think about it, the fine particles fill up the tiny holes in the element and reduce the micron rating of the filter, to a point where the filter becomes a restriction beyond the flow rate required.  I have seen this in mechanical diesel injection pumps that are over-filtered, when someone changes the filter too early and they are always running in a mode before their optimum, increasing the size of particles to go thru.  Also, like mentioned before the engines seem to be run in on a dyno - where they probably change the filter and oil before installing it in the car.

Thinking about it, that does sound logical. Problem is that just after they become clogged they begin to do damage to the engine, right?

How does one know when the oil filter needs changing? When the oil is black? Or is that just a sign that the oil needs replacing, not necessarily the filter?

I've heard varying things about oil filter changes over the years... the most constant advice i've heard is to change your oil filter and oil every 10,000km or 6 months, whichever comes first. Does that sound about right?

If so, I might take my car in for its first oil change at around the 7500 mark.

[middy]

I intend getting the dealer to service it every 15000 km, and just changing the oil myself at the 7500 km intervals.  I will probably just change the oil and leave the filter for the full 15000 km.

How does one know when the oil filter needs changing? When the oil is black?

Black oil means it is holding stuff that is smaller than the filter can.  This is the stuff that used to make "sludge" and "varnish" but now are held in suspension until flushed with the oil change. Black oil is good oil in the sense that you can see that it's keeping the engine clean with the so-called detergent additives.

The oil itself does not "wear out" as much as the additives that are there to handle the by-products of combustion which eventually become depleted.  Some additives help to keep the engine clean and other additives help maintain the viscosity. Oil may thin initially (during its life) as the additives that help maintain viscosity when hot get used up but eventually, most oil starts to thicken if it is holding too much "black stuff" when approaching end of life.  Oil not used in engines - such as gearbox oil is not subjected to combustion contamination and is normally unchanged for life.

Synthetic oil, that we should all be using, lasts much longer that mineral oil and that's one very good reason why car makers recommend keeping the oil much longer than in the "old days".

Unless intending to keep the oil well past recommended, the filter should be changed with the oil - in any case you cannot go beyond recommended even if it is still good without warranty problems!.  If changing oil more often, then leaving the filter longer, up to the manufacturers normal oil change interval probably will not hurt.

The real question ought to be: Why change the oil more often than the 15000km recommended (or whatever it is in your country)?

If the oil is working you are just wasting money and oil.  You could have the oil analysed a few times to get a measure of its sensible life in the vehicle you drive but it's probably cheaper and easier to just change it early if in doubt by splitting the normal service intervals as if you were falling into the "severe service category". 

If you fall into the category of "severe driving conditions" A, B, C, F or H as described on pg18 of the (Australian) Service Passport handbook then change each 7500km as recommended but if you are a "normal" user and the oil and filter are working, changing them is just a waste.

I know many of you will just do it anyway

What I would be picky about is what oil to use. 
 
Some oils labeled "synthetic" are not actually made with a synthetic base but instead are derived from mineral oil after having gone through a further refining process (hydro-cracking) that gives it synthetic "qualities".  Group iii base oil is the hydro-cracked mineral oil and group iv and v represent true synthetic bases.  Anything using iii, iv or v can be legally labeled synthetic.  

For cars with a catalytic converter or diesel particulate filter in the exhaust system to reduce air pollution, a so-called low SAPS oil is required to prevent fouling the filter.  SAPS is Sulphated Ash, Phosphorus and Sulphur.  These additives are related to anti-wear and I suspect it's not to advantage to use low SAPS oil if not required to.  An oil may say it has low SAPS or may conform to ACEA C3 or API SM which are formal standards indicating low SAPS.  Diesels in Australia (to date) are sans DPF (it's an expensive component) and do NOT require low SAPS oil.

I, and others, have said it elsewhere but I'll repeat here:  Australian diesels MUST use an oil that is rated ACEA B4.

Disclaimer: I am not an expert - do your own research.

Edit: Clarify some points. Add info re low SAPS and ACEA C3
 

[LuciferDarklord]

I reckon just follow the manufacturer's recommended intervals.  I think if you changed the filter every 2000km or so you would risk damage as the filter never starts working properly.  I cant see you can go wrong if you follow the book.  If the filter does become clogged, what happens is - usually when the oil is cold and more viscous, is a pressure relief valve is exceeded just before the filter, and the bypass oils goes past the filter, and directly into the engine. Obviously a bad scenario but it prevents the filter from being blown off the side of the block, and at least oil, if not a little dirty, still gets to the engine.

[Arg]

Actually the manufacturer's recommended oil change intervals are optimum, not minimum.

Oil tests actually show that they perform better as they are used, up to a point, and that is the change interval. The manual usually mentions a reduced interval for the air filter for harsh conditions.

I was going to suggest more filter changes, but the discussion about particles closing up the hole size was interesting - as long as flow is not compromised.

If you change the filter early in life, bear in mind the dealer would like to see it if there is a problem with metal deposits.

The broker who is supplying my new i30 contacted Hyundai Aust who said the manufacturer's warranty is valid (in this country) as long as servicing is conducted as per the manual. It doesn't have to be a dealer, but it does have to be a fully qualified mechanic, and it does have to be the full service as per the manual. Keep records. No home servicing.

RE: oil colour, I understand diesel engines turn the oil black almost straight away, so that is not a useful guide for an oil change.

[Arg]

<<snip>>  I have decided to use Nulon oils as they meet the required spec and are Aussie owned. I believe you can also get a 20 lt drum for around $160 which makes for good economy.

http://www.nulon.com.au/products.php?productName=100%_Synthetic_5W-40_Long_Life_Petrol_and_Diesel_Engine_Oil

I typed in i30 to Nulon's website and it said the following:

"Crankcase: Oils are shown in order of preference to suit Australian conditions.

"Lighter viscosity oils, e.g. 5W- or 10W-, give improved fuel economy.
Synthetic oils are preferred for performance applications.
 
" (1) 100% SYNTHETIC 5W-30 LONG LIFE DIESEL & PETROL ENGINE OIL
Nulon 100% Synthetic 5W-30 Long Life Diesel & Petrol Engine Oil is designed to provide the ultimate protection for all technically advanced passenger car and light commercial petrol and diesel engines that require a fuel conserving 5W-30 low viscosity engine oil. Specifically formulated to provide protection during long oil drain intervals. Safe to use in modern diesel engines fitted with catalysts and particulate filters. These engines require an engine oil with a low Sulphated-Ash, Phosphorus and Sulphur content (Low SAPS).
" (2) 15W-40 HIGH PROTECTION DIESEL FORMULA ENGINE OIL
A "super high" performance diesel engine oil which surpasses the requirements of most diesel engine manufacturers. Formulated with superior deposit control to provide valve train protection and keep your diesel engine clean and sludge free. Excellent low temperature performance for cold start protection.
" (3) 100% SYNTHETIC 5W-40 LONG LIFE PETROL & DIESEL ENGINE OIL
Nulon 100% Synthetic 5W-40 Long Life Petrol & Diesel Engine Oil is designed to provide the ultimate protection for all technically advanced passenger car and light commercial petrol and diesel engines that require a fuel conserving 5W-40 low viscosity engine oil. Specifically formulated to provide protection during long drain intervals. Safe to use in modern diesel engines fitted with catalysts and particulate filters. These engines require an engine oil with a low Sulphated-Ash, Phosphorus and Sulphur content (Low SAPS)."