[asathorny]

Very interesting Alan....  Is this the swan song :-( ?????

[AlanHo]

Very interesting Alan....  Is this the swan song :-( ?????

I don't know yet - the Hyundai i30  has in its favour
Much lower cost
A better warranty
More pleasing styling
A local dealership you can park at when you vist (the VW one is a nightmare)
A local dealership of which a personal friend is a joint owner
The support of a great i30 Forum

These are powerful arguments to buy the new i30 (if I am able to hear them in the cabin).

[diablo]

It seems odd to me that they've used the new generation Gamma engine with direct injection, which is capable of more power and should get better fuel efficiency yet they've detuned them to have less power than the older engines, especially the 1.4.  Odd, what are they thinking ?

The same 1.6 in the Veloster is tuned to full power and gives around 10 seconds for the 0-62 (though that car is a little lighter).

I wonder what the turbo versions will be like ?

[Dazzler]

As usual Alan very interesting (I await the next chapter) 

[ElleB]

Thanks Alan....

 Aside form all the factors that you have mentioned and comapred, what about costs of spare parts and the like?
  If my memory serves me correctly, with some VW vehicles, when you change the brake pads, they also suggest that you change ( not machine) the discs and they sell them as a "unit".
  Now this may not apply to all VW's.. but my gut feeling from others that I have spoken to is that parts and the like are expensive, especially if they come the brake caper .....

  Just a thought!!!!
   

[AlanHo]

Thanks Alan....

 Aside form all the factors that you have mentioned and comapred, what about costs of spare parts and the like?
  If my memory serves me correctly, with some VW vehicles, when you change the brake pads, they also suggest that you change ( not machine) the discs and they sell them as a "unit".
 

That's a fair point that I have yet to go into. I know that with my previous Audi cars the brake pads were renewed without fitting new discs. Having said that, I had a brake judder problem on an Audi A6 and the Audi Dealership replaced the pads and skimmed the discs rather than replace them.

[tla]

Really appreciate the review of the VW. 

Have you considered adding the Mazda 3 to your list of test drives?

Even though it's butt-ugly (IMHO), it's one of the top-selling cars in Oz.  It would be good to have a comparison with the other cars in your list.

[Doggie 1]

We'll have to start paying him soon 
Thanks Alan, great review again.
Surely, as a forum, we should carry a bit of clout by now, given the size of the membership and it being worldwide.
What can we do to impress on Hyundai that an URGENT fix needs to be applied to cabin noise?
It cannot be that hard for them to rectify this fault and it would make such a huge difference to the overall refinemant of the car.
I can't imagine that the costs of making good this fault could possibly amount to much when amortized across the global market and I don't understand why they haven't acted already when it keeps being raised on a forum such as this which they will obviously monitor.

[Dazzler]

Hi Dave,

I get the impression from Alan they have improved cabin noise considerably in the new model 

[Doggie 1]

I hope so and it will be interesting to run the new model alongside the VWs to compare.

[Phil №❶]

We'll have to start paying him soon 
Thanks Alan, great review again.
Surely, as a forum, we should carry a bit of clout by now, given the size of the membership and it being worldwide.
What can we do to impress on Hyundai that an URGENT fix needs to be applied to cabin noise?
It cannot be that hard for them to rectify this fault and it would make such a huge difference to the overall refinemant of the car.
I can't imagine that the costs of making good this fault could possibly amount to much when amortized across the global market and I don't understand why they haven't acted already when it keeps being raised on a forum such as this which they will obviously monitor.

I agree 100%, My vehicle is a thirsty 6cyl Holden, which I still enjoy driving. It's an oldie now but after190K kms, it is still quieter than the wifes I30. I enjoy the I30 at every opportunity I get to drive it and if the cabin noise could be SIGNIFICANTLY refined, it would place the car in another league IMHO.

[Dazzler]

The road noise was probably about half the reason we traded the CRDi on the Hybrid .. although it was no worse (probably better) than the equivilent Lancer and Mazda 3

[Doggie 1]

But if Hyundai want to be a global leader and continue to be, then they have to address this IMHO.
They produce great cars with an ever-growing loyal following, so I hope they do listen to their customer base.

[Phil №❶]

That's what I mean about putting it in another league. At high speed, it's possible to carry on a quiet conversation in the Holden, hardly any wind noise and just a hint of road noise. This is simply a matter of using sound deadening materials.

If the I30 was presented to us without any floor coverings at all, people would say, great car but what about the floor, well that's how I feel about sound insulation materials. Just because they can't be seen, doesn't make them unimportant. 

[Doggie 1]

That's what I mean about putting it in another league. At high speed, it's possible to carry on a quiet conversation in the Holden, hardly any wind noise and just a hint of road noise. This is simply a matter of using sound deadening materials.

If the I30 was presented to us without any floor coverings at all, people would say, great car but what about the floor, well that's how I feel about sound insulation materials. Just because they can't be seen, doesn't make them unimportant. 

I agree whole heartedly. The carpet quality is also poor and could be fixed at the same time.

[AlanHo]

I understand that cabin noise is not simply a function of how much sound insulation as applied to the car body - but the natural resonace of the body shell design, wind noise,  the engine design and mounts, air intake suppression, exhaust design and mounting, suspension mounting etc - all come into the equation.

I guess that a noisy car can never be turned into a truly refined and quiet one by gluing sound insulation everywhere - it can only be made into a less raucous one.

Hyundai claim that the new i30 was designed from the start to be a more refined vehicle and all the above factors given due attention. I will soon have the use of the new model for a few hours and will be able to drive it on familiar roads - including the route I used to road test the Golf. The decibel meter will reveal whether it really is up to snuff or not.  My favourable impression at Silverstone was based upon a relatively short drive over unfamiliar roads. Watch this space...........

Regarding the Mazda 3 - I'm afraid that it is a car that I have no interest in. I owned a new Mazda 3 in 1987 and it was an OK car but the modern ones just don't seem to be much of a success in Europe. The Mazda 6 is, in my opinion, a better car than the Ford Mondeo with which it shares a lot of components - but the Ford outsells it by a huge amount. The Mazda MX5 is quite another story - if I had more hair and the money to spare I would have one tomorrow.

[Doggie 1]

I look forward to your verdict Alan. 

In Australia, the Mazda 3 was recently named as the top selling car over the past year, toppling the Holden Commodore from its number 1 spot.

[Phil №❶]

I agree Alan and I didn't actually write all that out, but it would have to be included, otherwise there can't be a meaningful reduction in noise. Your report with a new model will make very interesting reading, we all can't wait. 

[asathorny]

Mentioning the dual mass flywheel and me being unaware as to what the heck that is I had to google it and found this three D vid....  So I thought I would share in case anyone else was wondering :-

[Phil №❶]

Now would someone like to explain to me in words what the advantage is. There appear to be many failures of these devices mentioned on the internet.

My understanding of the flywheel principle is to accumulate energy in the form of angular momentum for use while the engine is not producing power as in the 4 cycle engine, only 1 stroke is power. So if energy is consumed in generating the rotation I don't see any gain. Energy can not be created only transformed. So what's the big deal with this device. 

[Dazzler]

Nothing on Wiki .. so it can't be much chop  (Only kidding)

This site seems to explain it quite well ...

"Summary
 The dual mass flywheel eliminates excessive transmission gear rattle, reduces gear change/shift effort, and increases fuel economy. The function of the dual mass flywheels is to isolate torsion crankshaft spikes created by diesel engines with high compression ratios."

From Here

http://www.cdxetextbook.com/trans/clutchMan/clutches/dualmassflywheels.html

[Phil №❶]

That idea is about as popular as DPF, fancy owning a diesel manual, with both. Fortunately it's not a problem with autos as the torque converter, which is also the flywheel, provides a fluid coupling between the motor & the transmission. 

[Doggie 1]

Glad we got that sorted 

[accim]

Great and detailed review of the i30 and the Golf.

I just have one comment about the comparison of the 1.4 TSI VW and 1.4 Hyundai engine - when comparing the TSI VW's engines with Hyundai's engines (and also others), I would suggest to compare VW's 1.4 TSI petrol engine to 1.6 Hyundai's petrol engine. In my opinion, the 1.4 petrol engine in i30, is comparable to VW's 1.2 TSI engine which is also available in Golf, Skoda Octavia.. But the 1.2 TSI feels better, because of the turbo.

TSI engines are, as we know, turbo charged engines and because of that, it seems a bit unfair to me, to compare it to the other non-turbo charged engines with same ccm's and HP.

I've driven a Golf VI with 1.4 TSI engine (122hp), Golf V with 1.4 TSI 170hp engine and 2.0 GTI (TSI 200hp) engine. Great cars, go well/great, they have great fuel economy considering how well they go and the overall quality is also great. But the prices are (at least were) quite high..


PS: It seems to me, that you have quite good Hyundai dealers, because our main Hyundai dealer, doesn't even respond to the e-mails you send them or sends some poor reply on the mail. And they do it even to me -> someone who has purchased (me or my family) around 10 new Hyundai's in the past 12 years and is planning on doing it again in future. Disaster 

[Dazzler]

PS: It seems to me, that you have quite good Hyundai dealers, because our main Hyundai dealer, doesn't even respond to the emails you send them or sends some poor reply on the mail. And they do it even to me -> someone who has purchased (me or my family) around 10 new Hyundai's in the past 12 years and is planning on doing it again in future. Disaster 

Interesting accim.. I think you know them well enough to bring this to their attention. If you breach it tactfully they might lift their game in this area..

Just don't use an analogy about the size of your "you know what" 

[accim]

PS: It seems to me, that you have quite good Hyundai dealers, because our main Hyundai dealer, doesn't even respond to the emails you send them or sends some poor reply on the mail. And they do it even to me -> someone who has purchased (me or my family) around 10 new Hyundai's in the past 12 years and is planning on doing it again in future. Disaster 

Interesting accim.. I think you know them well enough to bring this to their attention. If you breach it tactfully they might lift their game in this area..

Just don't use an analogy about the size of your "you know what" 

Haha, I won't don't worry  If there was something like that "under the bonnet", I just might, but.. 

No but really.. I'm really disappointed with the dealers. Ok, my local dealer/service (the local smaller one) is okay, but then again, I've never had any "special" questions for them, so can't really tell how they would react. But the main Hyundai dealer/office really sucks. You can't really expect any useful feedback from them