[Doggie 1]

Yes, I have a left front passenger who is quite capable of telling me when to turn off the engine (among other things).

[rustynutz]

Stop-Start Technology | Motoring | RACQ

Start-stop system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Phil №❶]

5 - 10 % reduction in fuel consumption. How can this be determined, it depends on the amount of stop start encountered.

[Mike SX]

Well, having one car with ISG, I prefer without - my i30.
Maybe it is my educated insecurity - I always wonder, "will it restart", (especially in dodgy areas).
Whilst running, I have no concern.

[paul]

I guess someone somewhere has calculated the fuel saving capabilities of this function ( a good job for Rusty the researcher). 

With the exception of Hybrids, which have a nice electric motor to spirit them away, Diesels require some form of mechanism to restart the engine. My understanding of Diesels is that at idle, they use much less fuel to keep running compared to a petrol engine. So what is the actual saving in litres.

The savings in cost is another equation. Given that the car has to have extra equipment to facilitate the restart function, there will be a higher initial cost to purchase. If something goes wrong then after warranty, the cost will be significant in order to diagnose and repair, so there goes a good portion of the fuel savings. So I'll be quite happy to pass on this one thanks.

That's right Phil, I don't think the fuel saved will cover the cost of a new starter, or even new ring gear on the flywheel.
Daz, it does work well, but I am more concerned about other components rather than the fuel saving,
how long will an engine tickover for, on 1 ltr ? it will take a tidy few hundred hours to pay for a new starter or even a battery,i thinks!

[bumpkin]

I had it on the ix20 and do miss it on the i40.

All the myths about using up the starter should be busted, I considered the Hyundai BD system to be very good and would call it ignition and a half, the restart does not reset the electrics or dim the lights as a standard start would and therefore with less current being pulled, the starter can't be working as hard.

Lets allso bust the extra second or two to start the car, if you are sitting correctly at a set of lights with the handbrake on and the car in neutral with your foot off the clutch (as you were taught, not with the car in gear, clutch engaged and foot on the brakes as seems to be acceptable somehow as soon as you pass your test!), then an emergency vehicle pops into your rearview, you would normally have to engage gear, release the handbrake and then drive out of the way.  An ISG system starts the engine when you go to grab the gear as you depress the clutch, it has started before you get to the handbrake, so this mythical extra time to get going simply doesn't exist.  I would argue that a less experienced driver is more likely to stall and then have to grab the key, switch off and start the whole routine again and delay the emergency vehicle more.

Technology will always move forward and some will be less keen, however if you always do what you always did, then you will always get what you always got!

[Phil №❶]

So that's a yes, then. 

[bumpkin]

Affirmative captain!

[Surferdude]

Technology will always move forward and some will be less keen, however if you always do what you always did, then you will always get what you always got!

Yep. Simple, reliable componentry. 

Yeah! Yeah!

I know I'm an old f*rt.

[Phil №❶]

This is the problem, the dealers will scoop up the savings, right before your eyes.

Example,

Inside door handle inoperative - cable failure.


As if. 

[paul]

No one has mentioned the extra drag from the alternator to replace the electricity used to re-start the engine ?
you don't get that power for free !

[FatBoy]

Yeah! Yeah!

I know I'm an old f*rt.

I would see you as an experienced citizen, Trev.   

[Dazzler]

No one has mentioned the extra drag from the alternator to replace the electricity used to re-start the engine ?
you don't get that power for free !

Stop being so negative Paul, or I'll change you back to your old colour 

[Phil №❶]

I'm positive paul has a valid point. 

[paul]

ok Daz, (electric Daz)
It IS true like it or not, Fact is , it's extra strain on the components, ok they have uprated them to compensate,(starter, battery etc)
but when they DO go wrong they are twice the price of normal units.
most people have to buy a battery at some time, unless you can afford to get a new car every 3 years.
I have been in slow moving traffic jams and its bloody annoying keeping stopping & starting,
ok in OZ maybe you don't get the jams we get on our tiny immigrant filled country.
A Prius is a totally different animal and cant be compared to an i30.
so mine is OFF, and if I could fix it that way I would be happy.

[Dazzler]

most people have to buy a battery at some time, unless you can afford to get a new car every 3 years.

 

If every I get over there, you'll have to show me how it works (or doesn't work!) 

[Mike SX]

This is the problem, the dealers will scoop up the savings, right before your eyes.
Example,
Inside door handle inoperative - cable failure.
As if. 

  I was so shocked that I asked the Receptionist to repeat the figure to my financially savvy Wife

[bumpkin]

ok Daz, (electric Daz)
It IS true like it or not, Fact is , it's extra strain on the components, ok they have uprated them to compensate,(starter, battery etc)
but when they DO go wrong they are twice the price of normal units.
most people have to buy a battery at some time, unless you can afford to get a new car every 3 years.
I have been in slow moving traffic jams and its bloody annoying keeping stopping & starting,
ok in OZ maybe you don't get the jams we get on our tiny immigrant filled country.
A Prius is a totally different animal and cant be compared to an i30.
so mine is OFF, and if I could fix it that way I would be happy.

The traffic can't have been moving that slowly or your system is not working correctly.

When it first stops then you have to reach 15mph again for it to re-activate before the next stop, if you don't reach that speed it does not switch off the engine again.

Also doesn't operate if outside temperature too cold, or charge level in battery is too low.  Think that means it does look after itself and produce less wear and tear than is being suggested?

[AlanHo]

 ...Bumpkin is spot on in both his posts. 

However - whichever side of the fence you sit - a few posts on a forum is not going to change the march of technology or the ecological arguments about reducing carbon emissions.

[Keith]

No
Meaning No.. I don't like it.
I leave it on in much the same way I leave my air Con on.
I still see 42 mpg so not bovvered.
Just irritates me starting up all the time, it's no hardship to me of course.
I just don't like it.
. (Period) That's American for Full Stop....

[bumpkin]

That is fine though, a personal preference is something we are all entitled to have and some will, some won't like it.

The same conversations will have been had about ABS, who can remember the first time you felt that pedal juddering against your leg like you were having a fit, you probably didn't like it until you realised that you had stopped a LOT earlier than you expected and then suddenly that judder was just fine!

I love my auto-lights, others have them switched off because they think they are too sensitive.  I love auto-wipers, others hate the initialisation wipe on a dry screen when they forget to switch them off.  I love the auto-dimming mirror, others hate the green tinge they give which I think is rather cool! I envy those cars with auto-folding side mirrors as I have to push a button which is less cool.   I want my mirrors to have puddle lamps, other folks will just see that as a complete waste of time, I love seeing the Merc and BMW headlamp auto levelling thing working (at the same time as the mirrors have folded out and the puddle lamps extinguish, others will much prefer the thumbwheel in the dash.  I am also really happy with the electric handbrake, but others will hate it.  I would love my i40 to have the memory seat function like the next one in the range has got, but it doesn't so Kim and I have to fiddle around with all the switches whenever we swap seats, others will be entirely happy with the old lever and rail system.  (Think I am beginning to come across as lazy )

Oh and who could fail to be impressed by the Jaguar control wheel thingy sliding out of the centre console for you when you get into the car?  Well obviously those that don't like that kind of thing but hell yeah - smart!

How many people got all upset about suddenly having to wear a seatbelt, then got used to it, only to get all uppity again about having to strap their children or elderly family in the back, then got used to it, only to get hacked off about having to use a child seat then a booster cushion when the little ones get a bit bigger?

Mark Webber didn't like his KERS system much, but as much as his team-mates one not breaking down was a bonus for him, the number of times Webbers did meant that MUCH more information about the operating conditions, use and reliability of the system could be analysed and we will all have it in our road cars not too far down the line.  Again some will like it, some won't.

At the end of the day though manufacturers are putting these items into cars either due to legislation or for personal preference.  You can buy any of the Hyundai models without BlueDrive, they are not forcing it on you, if you have bought it to try it and don't like it, you know to steer clear in the future, unfortunately for those that are against the technological onslaught, what is available on the higher specced vehicles now will become standard on them all in the future and the higher specs will get whatever the next gadgets and gizmos are.  The world marches on - are you coming?

[Dazzler]

 

I've got a foot operated foot (hand) brake too...  They get a bit of a caning, but I like them!

Once you get used to it, I reckon it is better than a conventional one!

Cleaner centre console and Trish can still disengage it if she has a drive (she can't undo a conventional hand brake if I pull it up fully) 

[Surferdude]

I've got a foot operated foot (hand) brake too...  They get a bit of a caning, but I like them!

Once you get used to it, I reckon it is better than a conventional one!

Cleaner centre console and Trish can still disengage it if she has a drive (she can't undo a conventional hand brake if I pull it up fully) 

Geez Dazz.
The LH Torana had them years ago.
And, IIRC the HQ Holden.

[bumpkin]

Merc C class has one too.

[FatBoy]

Great post Brian.  My sentiments exactly.

The fact is that all items in cars are becoming more reliable, cheaper to manufacture, and lighter.  This is in no small part due to them going in cars in the first place, the technology is improved, refined and tweaked.

As I have said in a previous topic, if you don't like this new technology, maybe you should go back to driving a 1963 6 volt VW Beetle (Type1 for us air cooled lovers).  Then you won't have disc brakes, air conditioning, automatic transmission, air bags, ABS, power windows, climate control, reliability, FM radio, good fuel consumption, well, you get the picture.

As Bumpkin says, get on board, or get out of the way.

[AlanHo]

Another good post Bumpkin - you sure do have an excellent way with words......

[Phil №❶]

All I can say is, scouring pad.   

[bumpkin]

No one has mentioned the extra drag from the alternator to replace the electricity used to re-start the engine ?
you don't get that power for free !

I forgot to mention that the BlueDrive system also deals with that differently and I assume so do other ISG equipped vehicles.

On the ix20 (and so again I assume the i20, i30 and i40) it varied the work of the alternator, so going downhill for example swapped the power to the alternator more to charge the battery whilst momentum took care of the car speed, when going uphill, power was taken away from the alternator to help the engine out, so the power whilst not free, is certainly cheaper than it used to be!

[Doggie 1]

I've got a foot operated foot (hand) brake too...  They get a bit of a caning, but I like them!

Once you get used to it, I reckon it is better than a conventional one!

Cleaner centre console and Trish can still disengage it if she has a drive (she can't undo a conventional hand brake if I pull it up fully) 

Geez Dazz.
The LH Torana had them years ago.
And, IIRC the HQ Holden.

And the ZH Marquis.

[Surferdude]

As I have said in a previous topic, if you don't like this new technology, maybe you should go back to driving a 1963 6 volt VW Beetle (Type1 for us air cooled lovers). 

That'll do me.
Took me everywhere. Great fuel consumption. Fun to drive.