[rustynutz]

Oh, and if you happen to put your greasy fingers on a globe, a simple wipe with some methylated spirit will soon clean them...

[Mel]

i have a colleague in Queensland that had also had approx 20 blown headlights in the  2 1/2years that he has owned his I30 slx auto. It went to the dealership everytime and would always blow with the 20000km warranty on the globes. So they would replace them and he also had the alternator replaced and several other things done but now has had the headlights replaced with high intensity globes and that has seem to have done the trick. He has now gone 30000km with those globe ( he will shoot me if one blows after posting this  ). This was done through Keema Cleveland in Qld and all done under warranty (they did try and refuse and he told them in no uncertain terms that it would be covered). Hope this helps Druggist (and other members) perhaps Barry Smith can give the dealership a call and find out exactly what they used

[druggist]

Thanks for the photos Accim. I understand that a bulb touched with dirty fingers looks like that when it blows out. Apparently the oil from your skin heats up more than the surrounding glass causing the bulging.

None of mine have looked like that. All were still clear with a slight haze of black inside.

I certainly wouldn't start a car with the lights on. I guess I learnt to drive on older cars that had batteries that needed all their charge to turn the motor over.

Dealer has had the car for 3 days this week and is slowly working through the steps with Hyundai technical people.

As far as the high intensity lights go I am intrigued Mel and would be interested in further information. I am lead to believe that the Hyundai bulbs being fitted by the dealer are longer life Osrams, 900 hours v 450 hours. I have had 4 of them so far.

[beerman]

i have a colleague in Queensland that had also had approx 20 blown headlights in the  2 1/2years that he has owned his I30 slx auto. It went to the dealership everytime and would always blow with the 20000km warranty on the globes. So they would replace them and he also had the alternator replaced and several other things done but now has had the headlights replaced with high intensity globes and that has seem to have done the trick. He has now gone 30000km with those globe ( he will shoot me if one blows after posting this  ). This was done through Keema Cleveland in Qld and all done under warranty (they did try and refuse and he told them in no uncertain terms that it would be covered). Hope this helps Druggist (and other members) perhaps Barry Smith can give the dealership a call and find out exactly what they used

Seems to be the MO for Keema, when the fuel filler flap was playing up I called them, and they tried every trick in the book from saying it was an adjustment and not covered and would cost their standard fee of $60. Some argument ensued, with some blaming of Hyundai, then evasive answers when I asked who to contact in Hyundai to take it further. Eventually he dropped that it was a two minute adjustment and he could do it for free, but I would have to wait until he was free to do it (and you can bet that he wouldn't be free for hours).

Eventually i dropped into my mechanic on the way home from work and he fixed it in two minutes.

But someone at work who used to work in the business told me it was the old double bill trick, bill the client and Hyundai for the warranty work.

[Dazzler]

Some interesting feedback here...That may blow some of of our/my theories out of the water..(excuse the pun)

(a) Mel, I think somewhere you said your friend had a Petrol i30 (up to now it has been the diesel as the main culprit)

(b) Druggist not having his lights on when starting his car 

(c) High performance globes with a longer life??? Shambles, myself an others have found these to be even more prone to early failure. I was even told by Autobarn and others most + globes have a shorter life rating than standard Hyundai/Philips globes around 400 to 600hours versus 1200 hours for the OEM..

[Mel]

That is right Dazzler his is a petrol auto SLX hatch. We both drive with the lights on all the time he has his headlights on I just have my parkers on. We are both in and out of the car all day at least 8 to 10 calls a day. He has had nothing but trouble and many trips back and forward to the dealer to try and fix the problem and so far the high intensity globes have fitted the bill better than any other option (which also included a new alternator).

I am certainly no expert on headlights as they have been one of the good things in my vehicle as I still have the original one in the car and I never turn the lights off so if I have parked with the headlights on then they are still on when I start my car the next morning. I didn't even know that there was such a thing as high intensity lights lol my education has come a long way in the last 2 days.

[Dazzler]

That is right Dazzler his is a petrol auto SLX hatch. We both drive with the lights on all the time he has his headlights on I just have my parkers on. We are both in and out of the car all day at least 8 to 10 calls a day. He has had nothing but trouble and many trips back and forward to the dealer to try and fix the problem and so far the high intensity globes have fitted the bill better than any other option (which also included a new alternator).

I am certainly no expert on headlights as they have been one of the good things in my vehicle as I still have the original one in the car and I never turn the lights off so if I have parked with the headlights on then they are still on when I start my car the next morning. I didn't even know that there was such a thing as high intensity lights lol my education has come a long way in the last 2 days.

Yeah, You can get +30, +50 and even +80 globes and a couple of other high performance monikers as well but atleast some of them compromise on longevity to give this extra performance..

THe diesel needs a higher rated battery I believe (and maybe - only guessing) a higher rated Alternator? to "drive" the diesel.. So when it was mostly the diesel owners having globe issues I thought that seemed logical ...

[Surferdude]

Some interesting feedback here...That may blow some of of our/my theories out of the water..(excuse the pun)

I was even told by Autobarn and others most + globes have a shorter life rating than standard Hyundai/Philips globes around 400 to 600hours versus 1200 hours for the OEM..

So, I know it's early in the morning and I'm only just waking up therefore my maths might be off a bit here but........
say you spend 2 hours a day in your car on average 6 days a week. That's 12 hours useage per week.12 into 400 = 33 weeks life?
Or in the case of OEM, 3 times that which equates to about 130 weeks of life.
I have to say I find all of those projections extremely low on the expectations scale. Even with all the rallying I've done, using the most powerful bulbs available, plus all the jolting, plus all the overnight trips I've done interstate over the years, I reckon I've probably replaced about a half dozen bulbs in my life (46 years driving).
I'm obviously doing something wrong

[Dazzler]

Hi Trev..

Many don't use their lights during the day though.. In my Hybrid for example I am guessing I would spend say an average of an hour a day in the car but would probably only need/use the lights for say 1 or 2 hours per week (average) that equates to 600 weeks (12 years) 

I used to drive with my lights on in the CRDi (so the dash was illuminated) but mostly only the park lights.. I think I went through 2 or 3 sets of headlight globes (at least one set were the high performance + ones) and also one x park light globe...

Even if I drove with my lights on in the hybrid all the time @ an hour per day globes would last 3-4 years which sounds about right (unless you had a Diesel i30) 

[Surferdude]

Hi Trev..

Many don't use their lights during the day though.. In my Hybrid for example I am guessing I would spend say an average of an hour a day in the car but would probably only need/use the lights for say 1 or 2 hours per week (average) that equates to 600 weeks (12 years) 

I used to drive with my lights on in the CRDi (so the dash was illuminated) but mostly only the park lights.. I think I went through 2 or 3 sets of headlight globes (at least one set were the high performance + ones) and also one x park light globe...

Even if I drove with my lights on in the hybrid all the time @ an hour per day globes would last 3-4 years which sounds about right (unless you had a Diesel i30) 

Sorry mate. I was only speculating that it seems there are quite few drivers who DO drive with their headlights on during the day, not to mention places like Canada where all cars have their lights on all day and have done by law for years (also in some European countries I believe). And if that is the case, there's going to be an awful lot of bulbs replaced on those figures above.

[Dazzler]

Yeah, fair call Trev.. They were the life expectancies that Autobarn gave me when my first set of +80? died .. (they did give me a free replacement at the time even  though they said it looked like had been caused by a surge) 

Seems logical about high performance globes (usually) lasting for less time.. like most things that are driven "harder"   

Dude in my Hyundai dealership said that the problem is in H7 bulbs and every H7 except expensive one will PERHAPS die withing week or month.
Ofc expensive bulbs give more light meaning they are strained more, but in the end they will do 1 year. If you change 6 "cheap" bulbs in 6 months thats it.

For me the only real thing bad on i30 is their short lights. They are just tragic!
I was scared shitless when driving 270km trip on highway during the night and mere 120kph.

Now with xenon installed driving during night is exceptional!

[Phil №❶]

xamaxy

Surely any reputable brand (Philips etc,) would make bulbs that last longer than a week or month.

Why is the problem isolated to H7, that makes no sense to me?

If what you say were true, people all over the world would be changing globes and that simply is not happening.

Our lawmakers in Oz won't allow HID to be retrofitted, the fools. 

True.

That topic was opened on croatian hyundai club/forum.
Conclusion was that ONLY original globes last long and there's a chance that every replacement will die very soon.
Also said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the i30 electric wiring...some said that H7 are more sensitive to voltage variations and thats why they die - that was measured on 3 different cars and it was fixed and good.
People with different cars VW Passat etc also reported H7 fast dead.

And as  "solution" there is xenon or cheapest H7 you can find + 2 in reserve 

Dunno about you but here we have insanely good Hyundai service shop and dude checked everything and wasnt able to see any fault...

PS
Does your only LEFT globe dies often or both?

[Phil №❶]

none of my cars have blown any globes yet 

[druggist]

Picked up the i30 tonight after dealer had it for 4 days.

Hyundai Australia have become involved and they believe they found the problem.

"High resistance in headlight earth circuits.

 Tested wiring and found high resistance in earth circuits, removed wiring and cleaned mounting surface, reattached earths and rechecked resistance - all now OK.

Check connections and resistance between alternator and bcm. All OK Fitted two new headlight globes (Osram)."

Area After Sales Manager came out and drove the car to oversee the process. Called me this afternoon as did dealer service manager.

All looked hopeful.

Picked up the car locked up outside the dealer at Pennant Hills tonight. Turned the lights on to discover a large shadow in the headlight beam projected on the road.  I knew what caused that as I had done it once myself when I replaced the bulb, in the dark by the road one night. The bulb wasn't seated correctly into the headlight assembly. 45 minutes wasted fixing that.

Also noticed a swirly scratch on my headlight protector that wasn't there on Tuesday morning when I gave them the keys.

Who wants to be a fly on the wall come Monday when I go back to see the dealer?

[Phil №❶]

Dealer = Gulp 

Hope that's the end of your problem. As far as I know 1 wire on the globe plug is for earth. I wonder specifically where the high resistance was found, at the globe or somewhere else. If we knew we could check our own cars too. 

[druggist]

I received the following email from Hyundai:

The dealer has been in contact with our National Technical Department at HMCA, we recommended a course of action to the dealer, to be followed to the letter, we supplied them with electrical diagram and requested tests and measurements to be undertaken with reports back to HMCA.

Through this process we identified some issues, with high resistance mainly in the earth side of the electrical system, these issues were addressed and retested, we are confident now that your concerns have been rectified.

As promised I drove your vehicle at Barry Smith this morning.

I am happy to have been involved with your vehicle, If ever you need to contact someone at  HMCA, fell free to phone direct.

Kind regards 

Danny De Chalain
Area After Sales Manager


When I spoke to him he said that all was documented in Hyundai's hot fix system that all dealers have access to.

I wouldn't hold your breath that they fixed it.  High resistance in the lamp wiring is more likely to protect the globes, not blow them. A loose connection on the other hand (to the point that the lights flicker) might cause a cold filament to fuse however. Unlikely though.

For a lamp to blow it really needs a significant surge (even of very short duration) of current which can only be caused by an increase of voltage or a decrease of resistance. The resistance is low when the lamp is cold: that's why you might have noticed that house lights 'pop' at switch on.

So if the headlight fails when you switch them on it might be a simple failure due to normal cold filamant surge.

Failures due to voltage surges are more complicated and might be caused by a faulty alternator/regulator or voltage transients from the starter motor. The starter motor can be eliminated as a cause if you always start with lights off.  I do.

The failure itself may not coincide with the event that caused the problem. The filament can be weakened and fail later.

[2i30s]

both my cars have the Parker's on all the time,but put on headlights only when it gets dark,no blown globes in 31 months.    but the cw has blown 9 brake light globes in that time and the dealer couldn't find out why.    i asked the wife if she had her foot on the brake pedal when she started the car and yes was her reply.    I've told her not to start her cw with her foot on the brake and we haven't had a blown globe ever since.  fingers crossed. 

[Phil №❶]

I tend to agree with pip in that resistance will lower the volts which would tend to protect the bulbs.

However, electricity always follows the path of least resistance and when you add the electronics from the BCM, ECU, Alternator, Regulator & THE STARTER MOTOR it all gets very complicated. My feeling is that there is a case of BACK EMF happening from the starter motor. When coupled with the alternator / regulator doing their jobs and providing charging current & the BACK EMF from the starter at startup there is a voltage spike produced.

Here is a link to back emf   

Some of it is double dutch to me but at least you can get an idea about back emf. 

Remember pip said the filaments in the bulbs are initially cold, so low resistance momentarily
& where does this emf go,,,,, to the bulbs.

This would also support 2i30s brake light statement, although her bulbs would've been glowing    at the time of startup. 

Not a problem for our cars as we are old timers who turn off lights before engine off.

Interesting video. His attempt to characterise back-emf as an unwanted or an evil component misses the mark I think. All motors are generators, as he said, and they all operate on the difference voltage between that applied, the battery, and that self-generated, the so called back-emf.

He has it correct though that motors can generate transient voltage spikes and they can only arise from the generated "back-emf".

Actually, I'm going to add here that transients don't generate from the normal back-emf process but none-the-less from the same mechanism and might be better compared to the transformer action of the kettering ignition coil. Without attempting to go into more detail if you have ever heard the interference from an electric motor (one that has a commutator) such as a vacuum cleaner or electric drill perhaps, on a radio, then you are actually listening to the voltage spikes that have sufficient energy to become a "spark transmitter" and generate radio waves like Marconi did way back when wireless was born.

I beieve it is possible that these might be the cause of the headlight problem. As I said, the easiest way to eliminate this as a cause is to switch off the lights when starting as we always did in the past because as 847563 said, in the olden days there often was insufficient current available to drive both headlights and starter together. 

Edited for clarity but may have missed the mark while trying to simplify it. 

I just had another thought. Has anyone checked to verify that the headlights are actually powered whilst the starter turns (assuming of course they are swithed on)?

It would be simple to automatically switch them off while cranking and I'd be surprised if that's not already done really.

[Surferdude]

I just had another thought. Has anyone checked to verify that the headlights are actually powered whilst the starter turns (assuming of course they are swithed on)?

It would be simple to automatically switch them off while cranking and I'd be surprised if that's not already done really.

I think I remember someone saying they could see them dim while cranking.

[Phil №❶]

pip

Excellent explanation and example. It is a requirement in electronic circuits to install a rectifier diode to block back emf from relay coils, so even low power tiny devices create problems. Imagine what is available from a high power starter motor.

With reference to the lights actually being on whilst cranking, they probably are, BUT with the load on the battery to energize the electronics AND crank the engine, I suspect that the headlamps are controlled by a relay and that relay may not actually engage at cranking volts. As soon as the engine fires, the load on the battery is removed, the alternator/regulator go berserk & commence charging, the relay energizes and whamo the spike goes to the lights.

On the other hand, the diesels probably have a higher CCA battery and this may be 1 reason why the failures are mainly in diesel engines. I can think of another reason why diesels are more prone and I'd like to see if anyone can guess what I'm thinking. If not, I'll post in about 6 hours.   

[Dazzler]

I can think of another reason why diesels are more prone and I'd like to see if anyone can guess what I'm thinking. If not, I'll post in about 6 hours.   

Something to do with the glowplugs 

[Phil №❶]

very close   

I suspect that the headlamps are controlled by a relay and that relay may not actually engage at cranking volts.

That's unlikely because unless your battery is flat the voltage will not dip much. It would need to be managed more positively.

It would be easy to imagine that the battery will act as a strong filter but I'm pretty sure it will be relatively useless at clipping any voltage spikes.

[druggist]

Thanks for the info 874563 & Pip.

I always start my car with the headlights off and don't turn them on during the day for a couple of hundred metres. At night I would switch them on when engaging gear.

Any thoughts on what would be needed to protect from back voltage?

[Phil №❶]

Sorry druggist, if you follow the procedure described above, then all I have said won't help you, as back emf only exists while the starter motor is active. My fault for rambling on with my theories, but I do find this topic interesting and hoped I could help with your problem.