[Colin]

My two year old i30 diesel had steering failure and required a complete new steering system and a new engine management system last year. One year up the road and the engine knocks at lower revs and tickover. Our local dealer told me that the injectors were at fault and this was caused by contaminated fuel. I have never ever put petrol in this car and they are saying this fault is not covered by the warranty because of contaminated fuel. They claim it was from a garage and will not cover the cost on the warranty. An absolute con.  So much for the warranty, Any car driver could suffer the same fate with no redress because you can not prove anything. Any advise would be appreciated.

[Keith]

Do you still have the car? Could you have some of the fuel analysed independently as the cause of the problem is still up to Hyundai? Or is it the local dealer playing up here? Tried speaking with Hyundai Head Office?

I will say tho, as others probably will... I have never heard of this before on an i30, so it must be a rare exception, and actually, thinking aloud... did they say it was DEFINITELY petrol in the diesel or simply "contaminated"? Any chance you could get a diesel sample from the same garage you use or enquire locally, see if anyone else has suffered it?

But to be fair, IF the problem is caused by any external 3rd party, why should Hyundai pay for the costs? They are only liable for defective parts and / or labour during manufacture aren't they?

[Asterix]

I think faulty injectors have been mentioned here before.

In Denmark, the dealer must proof the fault if rejected as warranty.

You should ask Hyundai to proof their statement.

[Colin]

Hi and thanks for your reply. I still have the car and very happy with it until this problem arose. The problem is that I don't believe I had fuel contamination. There is no way I or the garage can prove one way or the other the fuel was contaminated. They could produce fuel from anywhere and say it was from my car. If I went to the garage that I fill up from there is no way they would commit themselves as this happened two months ago and would leave the door open for other claims. I think this is a cop out by the Hyundai garage.

[Asterix]

Write a letter to the Hyundai HQ in your country and explain them the situation.

[Dazzler]

Welcome Colin .. A very distressing situation for you..

Have you taken the car to an independent garage for assessment? So what actually is the damage causing the knock?

Usually contaminated fuel means water or dirt in the fuel not petrol

Was the "contaminated" fuel drained at the time?

Taking a fuel sample now (2 months after the event) is obviously pointless...

[Colin]

I took my car to an independent garage and the confirmed that the knocks are from the injectors and questioned the fact that my car had a replacement engine management fitted. I have taken this up with my Hyundai garage and they assured me that the injector codes were punched into the new system. They seem to have got me all ways.

[Phil №❶]

@komaterpiller

What should / can he do. I remember the water damaged injector pic you posted. Would there be any specific evidence on the injectors to prove Hy's statements.

Just for the record, in all the petrol stations of the world, how many times and what would the frequency be of any delivery driver (who might be under the influence of drugs alcohol, depression, marital problems, job dissatisfaction etc.) possibly filling or part filling an underground tank with the wrong fuel 

[Doggie 1]

Hi and welcome.
As has been said, I would be pushing for Hyundai to offer some confirmation of what they are alleging because without that their statement seems baseless.
Do you have a consumer affairs department or similar where you live who you could take your case to?

[komaterpillar]

This is what I reckon

First up if there was water in the diesel enough of it would of been caught in the bottom of the filter housing and bought up the fuel light on the dash.  Also when you get water in a diesel filter you can see it as plain as day if you pour the filter out into a bucket. So if the fuel light was never illuminated you can either rule out water in diesel or it says to me that the float or circuit in the filter housing is faulty, either way its hyundai’s problem. Symptoms of damage from water in diesel are early on one or two cylinders will knock either at idle or when under load and will become worse as the turbo comes on boost (because the fuel rate is raised so you have more and more diesel not being atomised and not burning properly/controllably, instead it explodes at the end of your compression stroke). All this happens because when you get enough water in the nozzle of an injector, the heat from compression heats it so quickly it vaporises it before the injector can open, thus blowing the tip off. So if all your injector nozzles are still intact with no cracking between the injection orifices, and there is no water in the filter I would rule out water.   

Second is dirty fuel. Once again if the fuel filter light or check engine light never illuminated it’s not your problem. A clogged filter will log a low fuel pressure/high filter restriction fault code and should illuminate either of the afor mentioned lights. Even if you did get a dirty batch of fuel the filter should catch almost all of the crap and if it didn’t its not your problem if a faulty filter was fitted or incorrectly fitted (providing you used genuine parts and a dealer service, but considering your k’s its probably still the filter from the factory), once again, hyundai’s problem. Symptoms of dirt in a common rail system are, you may get one or two injectors knocking but most of the time it’s a loss of power over a short period of time, due to the high pressure pump getting chopped out, it will start logging “low rail pressure” codes, injectors will start bypassing and you will get excessive returns down the leak off line as the needles chop out the housings and nozzles, and then eventually one day it will just be really hard to start and will refuse to rev.

Thirdly is petrol in diesel. This is the only one that Hyundai should have any grounds to refuse a claim. Petrol in diesel presents a number of problems, it won’t illuminate any filter or check engine lights, high pressure pump has no lubrication and pumping elements will begin to pick up or gall up on each other, if the petrol makes it to your injectors the compression ratio in a diesel makes it explode when it is injected – no good for injectors or rings. If this has happened its your problem.

Fourthly is air in the system from a perished hose or cracked filter head/housing. With the age of your car this one shouldn’t be an issue and if it is its hyundai’s problem not yours. Again this one is all about the high pressure pump not having any lubrication while its trying to pump air. Also the car will be hard to start after sitting over night as all the air accumulates in big bubbles in the high spots throughout the system.

What I would do is ask the dealer how they came to the diagnosis that they did and why they think that it is your fault because if no warning lights have come on and the service schedule has been adhered to then how is the average person supposed to ascertain that their car needs attention? Provided that there is no way that the car could of ever accidentally got a big drink of petrol.

Also if the only symptom they are going off is the engine knocking they haven’t looked into it far enough yet, without removing the high pressure pump and dismantling it to see what sort of damage there is, or atleast pulling the faulty injectors to have a look, they are only guessing and they know it.   

After all that all ive got to say is I love talking to my service manager, especially when the waiting room is full of other owners and hes trying to pull a swifty on me

[Phil №❶]

Thanks Kom, A very comprehensive explanation   

[Dazzler]

Thanks Kom, A very comprehensive explanation   

 

[Keith]

Excellent education and support there Mr Komaterpillar!

Would that be Komatsu / Caterpillar training by any chance?

[Asterix]

Thanks Komaterpillar!

Factual, short and understandable. 

[komaterpillar]

Excellent education and support there Mr Komaterpillar!

Would that be Komatsu / Caterpillar training by any chance?

That it would be mate 

[Doggie 1]

Excellent summary there and most useful.
Can I take you with me next time I have a problem with my service manager? 

[Phil №❶]

Note on screen at kom's dealership,


Don't BS to this guy, he knows more than we do !

[komaterpillar]

Note on screen at kom's dealership,


Don't BS to this guy, he knows more than we do !

  haha you would be surprised some of the BS that they've tried to feed me at the stealer, and then they get all out of joint if you front them about it.

[Phil №❶]

That's them in your avatar isn't it 

[komaterpillar]

That's them in your avatar isn't it 

 

[Dazzler]

That's them in your avatar isn't it 

I reckon it is .. They are always trying to shaft someone 

[babis_xo]

Great post komaterpillar. Exactly what I was going to say LOL