[eye30]

Did I read somewhere that you can get the garage to turn it off?

When I  first got mine I went back to the dealer as I thought there was a problem.

I was told that as it was diesel and the fuel is pumped under pressure the anti stall is an intergal part of the system otherwise you would get fuel starvation issue.

[adsonbeb]

can i save diesel if when i brake i put it on neutral?

can i save diesel if when i brake i put it on neutral?

No. Quite the opposite in fact. No fuel will be used when slowing down in gear until 1000 rpm is reached. Another benefit of not declutching early is that the engine load will reduce the effort required of the brakes so will save brake pads and fuel.

It just occured that you might have an auto. Same response although I imagine less benefit from engine braking. Stick it in neutral if waiting at lights for an extended period.

[paul]

I am wondering about this fuel cutoff thing, i regularly knock it out of gear on long downhill stretches,
when driving to Spain there is a section of mountain you can coast for about 5 miles, my theory was,  it saves the 1,000s of rpm's it would do IN gear,
and gives the engine time to cool a bit after the climb, IF the fuel "cut off," why doesn't the engine cut out?

[Lorian]

The intertia of the car is still dirving the engine. If it's 5 miles downhill you may need a combination of technique. You are trying to keep the fuel cutoff for as long as possible, but whilst still maintaining a safe, and acceptable speed.

Its important to remember the car is effectively braking slightly all the time the fuel is cut-off. The effect will be obvious on your long decent, occasionally you may have to switch to neutral to speed up, depending on the gradient and road conditions.

[eye30]

i regularly knock it out of gear on long downhill stretches,

Isn't this dangerous!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sure I've read that the engine can turn off if this goes on for a certain length of time.  May be not the i30 but other makes.

Just think what may NOT happen if you need to accelerate or even brake quickly

I would expect that this practice in the UK could land you with a fine or even a ban as you do not have full control over the vehicle.

Don't forget on a down hill road if you are using the brakes a lot to reduce speed what about brake fade. 

Also, the engine will act as a supplementary brake system.

i regularly knock it out of gear on long downhill stretches,

Isn't this dangerous!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sure I've read that the engine can turn off if this goes on for a certain length of time.  May be not the i30 but other makes.

Just think what may NOT happen if you need to accelerate or even brake quickly

I would expect that this practice in the UK could land you with a fine or even a ban as you do not have full control over the vehicle.

Don't forget on a down hill road if you are using the brakes a lot to reduce speed what about brake fade. 

Also, the engine will act as a supplementary brake system.

Once you understand the dynamics, neutral is as valid as any other gearbox selection. As Paul indicated, neutral coasting downhill is an effective way to reclaim the energy used (actually stored) in the car's mass having raised it to a height by driving up the hill.

WRT engine braking, yes, sometimes instead of neutral, 4th or 5th (or even 3rd or 2nd) is a better selection in order to hold speed within the limit wanted. If controlled properly minimum braking is possible and desirable. There would be no point at all to coast in neutral and apply the brake at the same time; that would show a misunderstanding.

As for not having full control or being dangerous, I suspose there are many, if not most, drivers that qualify for that description irrespective of technique.

I will change gears several times going down a long undulating or winding hill, one of those "gears" used will be neutral.

My simple aim will be to use the accellerator and brakes as little as possible. Sometimes when driving a little quicker I press both a bit harder but always still within a controlled maximum. I save fuel, brakes and tyres by being a relatively gentle driver, yet I can maintain a good average by never slowing down unnecessarily which includes not allowing the engine to retard progress on the overrun unless it needs to.

Anybody here also ride a pushbike? Imagine being unable to coast. The energy you would waste just keeping up.

[paul]

My simple aim will be to use the accelerator and brakes as little as possible. Sometimes when driving a little quicker I press both a bit harder but always still within a controlled maximum. I save fuel, brakes and tyres by being a relatively gentle driver, yet I can maintain a good average by never slowing down unnecessarily which includes not allowing the engine to retard progress on the overrun unless it needs to.

my sentiment exactly,   on the mountain i coast down, the speed is pretty constant at about 60/65 mph due to wind resistance, and is dual carriageway, if the car was in gear i would still do the same speed but the engine would be doing 2000rpm as opposed to tickover speed (less wear to my engine and gearbox)my theory?
 

[eye30]

I understands what you are saying but in my mind coasting in neutral, even for a very short distance, means you don't have full control of the car.

Also, the fuel you say is negligible, isn't it?

In the UK if you coasted in neutral on your test you would FAIL.

Also, I've heard of stories were the Police have issued a driver with a ticket for not being in full control of the car as they have coasted.

[Dazzler]

I prefer to go down hills in 4th or 5th (like the feel of a little engine breaking and prefer not to ride the brakes any more than I have to..)

[agentr31]

Also, I've heard of stories were the Police have issued a driver with a ticket for not being in full control of the car as they have coasted.

how can a cop, following you, or beside you possibly know your in neutral? its pretty hard to look over from your drivers seat to the gear stick in another car thats next to you to see what gear they are in...

unless the car is sitting on 9000rpm and screaming its 717's off its not really going to be obvious is it...

I prefer to go down hills in 4th or 5th (like the feel of a little engine breaking and prefer not to ride the brakes any more than I have to..)

Dazz, a response like this shows that you have not understood. Maybe I've not been clear but coasting and applying the brakes, instead of remaining in gear is not being suggested here. The opposite in fact, in the circumstance you cite here where you would otherwise need to "ride the brakes".

Engine braking when not warranted is wasting energy. Remember the topic is "Hypermiling Techniques" and we are discussing one way to improve mileage which is valid within the topic even if some don't wish to utilise it.

There are many techniques that many drivers cannot or choose not to master, like left foot braking (hell, even normal emergency braking is not taught before a license is handed out). Sensible and safe coasting falls into that category.

Just as judicious left foot braking is not taught, even for automatics where two feet two pedals make sense to me, neither is energy concious driving but this does not make any of these things "dangerous". They just remain unknown and unused in the average driver's skillset.

[agentr31]

its very dangerous to use both feet on the pedals...

why do you think you see people driving along with the brake lights on, because they "forget" there foot is on the pedal or they "just rest it there... why do you think old people slam into things...  they forget and push the wrong pedal, then BAM into a building/car/person...

it does have its merrits in motorsport!!

[Surferdude]

its very dangerous to use both feet on the pedals...

why do you think you see people driving along with the brake lights on, because they "forget" there foot is on the pedal or they "just rest it there... why do you think old people slam into things...  they forget and push the wrong pedal, then BAM into a building/car/person...

it does have its merrits in motorsport!!

I use left foot braking in an automatic. Makes all the sense in the world. But in a manual, the brake and clutch pedals are smaller and to use your left foot to brake you'd need to be sitting a bit off centre to the steering wheel as the axistence of the clutch pedal means the brake is more to the right.
And it would, as you say, be stupid to leave your foot on the brake pedal. That's what the foot rest is for.

its very dangerous to use both feet on the pedals...

..why do you think old people slam into things...  

I never appreciated this relationship. So glad I'm not old.  

Oh, hang on... I've been driving for 50 years, I might qualify by your measure. I'm gunna try real hard to stop myself slamming into something.

..left foot, right foot... got it, I think, at least for the moment...  

Actually, many years ago the guy in my local servo had "an old person" run over him after getting a fill. The car got away from him and he drove into the workshop. I wonder if he got his feet mixed up?

If we start a thread on whether older drivers ought to hand in their licenses I think I know where you stand.

Incidently, if you drive a manual it's impossible to drive without having "both feet on the pedals".

Please excuse my sarcasm... I do know what you meant... just disagree.

Edit: Perhaps introducing left foot braking into my argument was not a good example of an advanced technique not commonly taught. In any case this has effectively been superceded by ESP and further does not work anyway as has been discussed elsewhere; applying the brake simultaneously with the accelerator kills the engine.

[agentr31]

 

its very dangerous to use both feet on the pedals...

..why do you think old people slam into things... 

I never appreciated this relationship. So glad I'm not old. 

Oh, hang on... I've been driving for 50 years, I might qualify by your measure. I'm gunna try real hard to stop myself slamming into something.

..left foot, right foot... got it, I think, at least for the moment... 

BWHAHAHAHA for that my friend ill give you a beer!! *hands beer over*

nah im not having a dig at you guys! just the elderly that probably shouldnt be driving! and for the record, i even see people my age driving with their foot on the brake!

[Surferdude]

its very dangerous to use both feet on the pedals...

..why do you think old people slam into things...  

I never appreciated this relationship. So glad I'm not old.  

Oh, hang on... I've been driving for 50 years, I might qualify by your measure. I'm gunna try real hard to stop myself slamming into something.

..left foot, right foot... got it, I think, at least for the moment...  

Actually, many years ago the guy in my local servo had "an old person" run over him after getting a fill. The car got away from him and he drove into the workshop. I wonder if he got his feet mixed up?

If we start a thread on whether older drivers ought to hand in their licenses I think I know where you stand.

Incidently, if you drive a manual it's impossible to drive without having "both feet on the pedals".

Please excuse my sarcasm... I do know what you meant... just disagree.

Edit: Perhaps introducing left foot braking into my argument was not a good example of an advanced technique not commonly taught. In any case this has effectively been superceded by ESP and further does not work anyway as has been discussed elsewhere; applying the brake simultaneously with the accelerator kills the engine.

Pip, thanks for sticking up for us "oldies"
Just on your last point however. As I stated in that other topic, I can definitely "heel and toe" in my car. (2 litre, manual, petrol, Korean build 2010). The engine revs rise instantly when I blip the throttle, even after a longish braking period.
ESP is definitely on and I don't lessen my brake pedal pressure in any way during the manouvre.
Not sure how all this works but it does - no differently to years ago in my Datsun, Subaru and Renault rally cars.

[agentr31]

you can blip the throttle in mine too, damm i do it with out thinking about it!

[Lorian]

On my i30 you can't brake and accelerate at the same time.

[agentr31]

i dont think you can smash the brakes on and accelerate hard at the same time!

While this is off-topic it could be worth a few lines until we agree on how this works.

Possibly the diesel and the petrol are different in this respect but in my CRDi the fuel is cut to the engine after about a second when the brake is pressed while some throttle is in use. To test, just lightly touch the brake with left foot but enough to turn on the brake light, while driving normally. Heel and toe actions appear to be unaffected possibly because the "blip" is not long enough to register as a one second overlap of brake and throttle.

Purposeful left foot braking to counter understeer while maintaining power during forceful cornering can result in the engine power cutting out mid-corner.

My point was that ESP can better counter the understeer by selectively braking only the inside rear wheel instead of the relatively clumsy 4 wheel braking the driver must apply.

[Surferdude]

On my i30 you can't brake and accelerate at the same time.

Sorry for the confusion if I've caused any.
I'm talking about a blip on the accelerator as you change gears, most often between 3rd and 2nd but sometimes, depending on the corner between 4th and 3rd.
By the time you're changing down, you've been on the brake for maybe 2 or 3 seconds and you maintain that braking pressure as you downshift, blipping the throttle to match the engine revs with the transmission.
It definitely works fine in my car.
Agree there may be something difference in diesels.

[eye30]

I use left foot braking in an automatic.

Before I continue I've got to say that I have never driven an automatic.

Now saying that I have always been under the impression that when driving an automatic you should never use the left foot.  It should just stay to the left of the brake pedal and you should use the right foot for both pedals.

The reason being that you can, say in an emergency, press both pedals at the same time and depending on the force applied and if the brakes are not spot on then the acceleration may be greater than the brakes and you may hit the car/wall/other object.

[Dazzler]

The first couple of times I drove an auto I used the left foot for the brake .. I prefer using the right foot for both in an auto. If the brakes have a lot of power assist things can get a bit dramatic with left foot braking..

The first couple of times I drove an auto I used the left foot for the brake .. I prefer using the right foot for both in an auto. If the brakes have a lot of power assist things can get a bit dramatic with left foot braking..

I've only had a couple of autos, just enough to decide I don't like them.

One area where the left foot should definitely be used to advantage is when parking etc. One can control position and progress "inch perfect" by simultaneous control of both pedals. The brake being used to control progress and not the accelerator which is only used to add sufficient power to overcome gradients, lumps, gutters and the like.

Learning how to use the pedals is a requirement we all went through when starting out... there can be more than one "correct" way.

[Dazzler]

My new Camry Hybrid is a CVT so guess i'll have to get used to it (Only had one other Auto a ratty Datsun 180B wagon I had as a 2nd vehicle in the early nineties) although had a few as company cars...

My new Camry Hybrid is a CVT so guess i'll have to get used to it (Only had one other Auto a ratty Datsun 180B wagon I had as a 2nd vehicle in the early nineties) although had a few as company cars...

Oh dear! It sounds like you have sold your soul to the devil... the deal must have been very good.

[agentr31]

CVT FTW!!!! i kinda wish my maxima was a CVT one... but i trust the good old jatco 4 speed a bit more then a CVT!

[Dazzler]

My new Camry Hybrid is a CVT so guess i'll have to get used to it (Only had one other Auto a ratty Datsun 180B wagon I had as a 2nd vehicle in the early nineties) although had a few as company cars...

Oh dear! It sounds like you have sold your soul to the devil... the deal must have been very good.

  Sorry... I went in to test the water and saved around $7000 off the list price on a Demo and got around A$2000 more on my trade than the Hyundai dealer would have given me...  (best deal I've managed to get in 25 car purchases - although will always have fond memories of the CRDI and aleady thinking in say 3 years might trade back to a Hyundai if they have a diesel i45 or something by then  )

[BC]

I've always believed that under normal driving conditions left foot braking should always be avoided.  To remain in control of a vehicle under emergency braking & swerving, it is essential for the driver to remain solidly "anchored" in the seat so that the car's movement doesn't alter the driver's seating position. 
Sideways movement is usually controlled by a good seat and forward/backward movement by the left footrest. If you brake with both or the left foot, your body weight can be transferred onto the brake pedal and the steering wheel.  The harder you brake the more weight is transferred onto the brake pedal then you brake harder - vicious circle. This can also effect your control if your body movement compromises the light & relaxed grip you should have of the steering wheel.  That's my two bobs worth anyway. . .