[Stuwoolf]

Happy New Year to you all.

In the last week or 2 I've noticed a lack of grip on damp/wet roads when turning on roundabouts. Checked the front tyres and althought there is tread there, maybe 3 mm above the bar, think it will help if they are replaced.

Car has OEM Hankook fitted. Reluctant to refit Hankook.

Question is what can I fit to the front when Hankook are on the back?

Maybe I need 4 tyres?

Grateful for any views and recommendstions.

Stuart

[Asterix]

You can fit whatever you want as long as they're same size and type as the Hankook's

I've previously used Conti, very good, and now run Goodyear EfficientGrip Performance, also very happy with them.

Right now running the wintertyres, 2 are Conti, 2 are Goodyear UltraGrip 9.

[EmpiriuS88]

205/55/16 H 91 are mine.

[eye30]

Why not   move front to back and back to front.

Then buy a full set when the fronts then wear down.

[Asterix]

Checked the front tyres and althought there is tread there, maybe 3 mm above the bar, think it will help if they are replaced.

If you have 4,5mm thread left there must be much Water on the road or the speed is too high. Being in Scotland, don't you use wintertyres..   I would expect you Guys to have similar conditions as around here with the occasional frost and snow..

Wintertyres are better than summertyres when temperature are below +7ºC. 

[diablo]

The Scottish climate can be pretty harsh in winter but can usually be coped with on summer tyres in the densely populated areas.

Though if I lived there I'd be thinking of trying out these new Michelin Crossclimate tyres which can be used all year but seem to have good winter performance.

Michelin CrossClimate Tyres

[Stuwoolf]

Thanks for the replies.

In Scotland, at least in the Glasgow area, winter tyres are not necessary 99.9% of the time.

Have never rotated tyres front/back. Have the view that if the grip is going on the front sticking the tyres on the back, potentially, only repositions the liability.

Tyre rotation on a regular basis is a different kettle of fish. That at least should balance wear rates.

My original question was prompted by my motorcycle experiences. Mixing brands front and back can cause all sorts of problems.

Will have a look at Conti and Goodyear.

Thanks again for the input.

[Surferdude]

Stu, the motorcycle comparison is probably not valid. 4 wheels over two gives a lot more stability across the board. On a car, as long as the tread patterns are reasonably similar, mixed patters shouldn't be an issue.
As for front to rear rotation, there is some merit in what you say and in recent years "experts" (of which I am not one) are saying the best treads should be on the rear. The theory is that it's more desirable to have understeer than oversteer.
However, it's my contention that traction is the primary concern, hence best to front. This reduces the risks - and effects - of aquaplaning. The driver's abilities and driving style also have some bearing on which way to go here.
But of course, the best solution is to replace all four at once.
If this is your preference, regular rotation on a front wheel drive where the wear rates can be 3x on the front, is a good idea, thereby wearing all tyres out at approximately the same rate. Every 10,000 is a good figure.

[Phil №❶]

Personally, I prefer always to have maximum grip at the front. That child that steps out in front of you, may just be saved by the extra grip and weight on those front tyres during heavy braking.

[rustynutz]

We've had this "front" vs "rear new tyre fitment discussion before and the general consensus by most on here would have you fitting the new tyres to the front...
Do a search online and the "experts" will be telling you the opposite...so good luck in deciding who to listen to... 

Here's just a sample:
Should you fit new tyres to the front or rear?
6 Common Tire Myths Debunked
When Buying Two Tires Instead of Four, Place the Two New Tires on the Rear - Tire Safety Group

New tires Front or Rear - YouTube

[Surferdude]

We've had this "front" vs "rear new tyre fitment discussion before and the general consensus by most on here would have you fitting the new tyres to the front...
Do a search online and the "experts" will be telling you the opposite...so good luck in deciding who to listen to... 

Here's just a sample:
Should you fit new tyres to the front or rear?
6 Common Tire Myths Debunked
When Buying Two Tires Instead of Four, Place the Two New Tires on the Rear - Tire Safety Group

New tires Front or Rear - YouTube

That's what I said.
As for front to rear rotation, there is some merit in what you say and in recent years "experts" (of which I am not one) are saying the best treads should be on the rear. The theory is that it's more desirable to have understeer than oversteer.

[diablo]

I remember my father rotating his tyres about 50 years ago. There was a diagram in the handbook which showed which ways to do it, both front and back and nearside/offside. I don't know anyone who does it now in this country, I only see it mentioned by the Austrailian members on here.

I had a vague memory about fitting new tyres on the rear and the best of the old ones on the front.

Although counter-intuitive it does kinda makes sense when going round bends in the wet, as has been pointed out understeer is easier to do something about than when the rears letting go suddenly.  I dunno about emergency braking in the wet though.   

Obviously better to change all four if you have the available cash around.

Stuwolf is complaining about lack of grip in recent weeks. I find that I occasionally get some minor understeer when the weather gets colder, even though I have plenty of tread left on my Hankooks.  Hence me thinking of fitting the Crossclimate* tyres, which apparently have extra silica to be flexible in the cold yet still give good wear characteristics in summer.  I'm sure that tyres with a similar rubber composition will become the norm in the future in climates like the UK.

* They are only £73 each, inc VAT fitted from BlackCircles

[rustynutz]

We've had this "front" vs "rear new tyre fitment discussion before and the general consensus by most on here would have you fitting the new tyres to the front...
Do a search online and the "experts" will be telling you the opposite...so good luck in deciding who to listen to... 

Here's just a sample:
Should you fit new tyres to the front or rear?
6 Common Tire Myths Debunked
When Buying Two Tires Instead of Four, Place the Two New Tires on the Rear - Tire Safety Group

New tires Front or Rear - YouTube

That's what I said.
As for front to rear rotation, there is some merit in what you say and in recent years "experts" (of which I am not one) are saying the best treads should be on the rear. The theory is that it's more desirable to have understeer than oversteer.

I did read that... 
I just thought a few links would help others make an informed decision...

[cruiserfied]

Mine and anyone i have worked with opinion is to leave the better tyres on the front. Being majority FWD cars also strengthens my choice. Drive and steer on the front needs the better tyres.
Also when rotating it is fronts go straight back and rears cross over to opposite fronts (unless directional).

[Phil №❶]

I maintain my preference, but most new cars have some form of stability control built in, so lesser grip tyres would at least be getting some benefit from the software. I do concede that eventually they will let go earlier than new tyres on the rear, but a good driver should know not to push their car that hard.

[cruiserfied]

I wasnt arguing. Just giving my thoughts.

Edit: Just reread you last message Phil and we are of the same opinion lol.

[Phil №❶]

 

[rustynutz]

Not having a go at anyone either but surely the "experts" would have a better idea than us, peasants? 

If tyre companies or what have you are giving us a bum steer then surely they would be leaving themselves wide open to be sued...yes? 

[Surferdude]

Hey Rusty, remember that next time you "suggest" the road safety experts are wrong about speed killing and bicycle helmets not being effective.
 

[rustynutz]

I will, Trev... 

Difference here though is no-one has presented any "evidence" that the experts have it wrong...something I usually do in the discussions you've mentioned...

[Surferdude]

I was still working in the industry when the recommendation changed.
It came out of some legal rulings out of the USA. The tyre companies and the vehicle manufacturers found themselves on the receiving end of some law suits which went against them qnd had to change their position.
Since then it's grown lie topsy along the lines referred to above.
But I can assure you that the real "experts", those involved at the development levels still feel as I do.
However,  as with most things,  especially in the USA,  once the lawyers get involved,  the battle is over.
There's the laws and there's real life.

[rustynutz]

This article makes mention of the Court Cases...

Where Do Two New Tires Go?

[Asterix]

The Scottish climate can be pretty harsh in winter but can usually be coped with on summer tyres in the densely populated areas.

Though if I lived there I'd be thinking of trying out these new Michelin Crossclimate tyres which can be used all year but seem to have good winter performance.

Michelin CrossClimate Tyres

I will definitely consider these tyres on my next car as I wouldn't need these crazy expensive TPMS valves on 2 sets of wheels... and I will always have the best tyres on the front... 

[rustynutz]

I guess there's something in the saying that you can't teach an old dog new tricks... 

Searching the net I've seen some "evidence" that having your best tyres on the rear is the way to go...Tyre manufacturers also recommend the practice, many tyre fitters also recommend it yet still, there are those that will argue that it's safer to have your best tyres on the front.
Trouble is, all I hear/see are comments as to how it's better but no actual proof is presented...so, if you do have "proof", please feel free to trot it out!

[Surferdude]

There is "proof" both ways. The argument hinges on whether it's better to go off forwards or backwards, in essence.
Along with some unresolved issues concerning fwd versus rwd.

[Phil №❶]

The way I drive the car, it would be most unlikely that I would have a control issue from the rear, just because I'm not interested in sporty driving. In the unlikely event that is does happen, oil on road etc, I'll just have to trust the stability program to help out. However, anyone can have a situation quickly develop that requires a straight line crash stop.

A falling tree (see today's vid), or children or accident obstruction on the road, so best tyres on the front for me.

[rustynutz]

There is "proof" both ways. The argument hinges on whether it's better to go off forwards or backwards, in essence.
Along with some unresolved issues concerning fwd versus rwd.

Any chance of showing us this proof, Trev? 
I haven't been able to find any to support best tyres on front as of yet... 

As for going off forwards or backwards, one would think that if you have to go off, going off forward would be better as most of the good gear such as crumple zones, seat belts and airbags are more effective...

However, anyone can have a situation quickly develop that requires a straight line crash stop.

Unless the road is wet, partly worn tyres are gonna pull you up just as quickly, surely?... 

[Dazzler]

Unless I had 50 years in the Tyre industry I wouldn't question the opinion of someone with 30+ years in the industry!!! 

To me it makes common sense that particularly in a front wheel drive car where the front wheels are used for steering and drive that the front tyres need to be the better ones. I have always worked on this premise with my own cars and am more than happy to go by Trevor's general opinion. 

[diablo]

There is "proof" both ways. The argument hinges on whether it's better to go off forwards or backwards, in essence.
Along with some unresolved issues concerning fwd versus rwd.

Any chance of showing us this proof, Trev? 
I haven't been able to find any to support best tyres on front as of yet... 

As for going off forwards or backwards, one would think that if you have to go off, going off forward would be better as most of the good gear such as crumple zones, seat belts and airbags are more effective...

However, anyone can have a situation quickly develop that requires a straight line crash stop.

Unless the road is wet, partly worn tyres are gonna pull you up just as quickly, surely?... 

That is my view really.

Emergency braking on really wet roads is the only circumstance where the front tyres having more tread would be an advantage I think.

I'm not one who drives at reckless speeds but a sudden need to swerve at even 50 mph could result in you and your passengers in a ditch, or the path of an oncoming vehicle,  if your rear tyres let go suddenly.

[rustynutz]

Unless I had 50 years in the Tyre industry I wouldn't question the opinion of someone with 30+ years in the industry!!! 

Nothing wrong with a few questions, Daz!

There are plenty of people that are in the tyre industry saying the opposite to what he is saying so someone has to be wrong....

I've seen some "evidence" FOR fitting the best tyres on the rear and so far, nothing supporting fitting them to the front...Surely it can't be too hard to dig up if that's the way to go? 
 
Oh, and just in case you're wondering, I do actually want to know the correct option as, like you it seemed logical to have the best tyres on the front...but, from what I've read online it's not...either way I'd like to see some kind of proof so I can then make an informed decision...