The truth about stop-start engines

rustynutz · **February 05, 2014, 01:55:15**

Spotted this link in one of Lester's recent thread links....

Chat to a car engineer and he’ll tell you that engine stop-start systems are just a small, easy-to-use part of the overall picture of emissions reduction.

But the wider public don’t seem to like them one bit. Ask around and you’ll encounter a bottomless well of opinions along the lines of “It’s annoying so I turn it off”, or “I don’t use it because it’ll wear my engine out faster”.

The truth about stop-start engines - BT

Phil №❶ · **Reply #1: February 05, 2014, 02:12:13**

All good stuff, until something breaks. The French system sounds (unusually,) good though.

Eureka · **Reply #2: February 05, 2014, 02:21:13**

Mine still works. 2007 CRDi. I am still turning the engine off at some long-duration red (stop) lights, and it still re-starts despite being a more-than-6-year-old battery.

Make sure you are not behind me, however. It's going to fail eventually.

Phil №❶ · **Reply #3: February 05, 2014, 02:21:55**

plasticphyte · **Reply #4: February 05, 2014, 02:46:42**

If it's all the same, I would like to remain in control of when the car stops/starts, and I don't want the system in the car in the first place. If ever I have a car with one, it will be the first thing I permanently disable.
I'm very happy I don't have one in my i30!

**Reply #5: February 05, 2014, 07:56:36**

Playing golf today an older chap mentioned to me that older Buiks started by depressing the accelerator (checked it on Google and it seems that from 1939-1960 this was how Buiks were started). The start switch was fitted below the accelerator. The ignition needed to be on.

I wonder how many old timers used this to save fuel?

Dazzler · **Reply #6: February 05, 2014, 08:37:25**

Quote from: plasticphyte on February 05, 2014, 02:46:42

If it's all the same, I would like to remain in control of when the car stops/starts, and I don't want the system in the car in the first place. If ever I have a car with one, it will be the first thing I permanently disable.
I'm very happy I don't have one in my i30!

As I've said before, I can't understand all the negativity.

I've lived with it for over 3 years and wish my cars had always had it!

BTW nice find Rusty! Quite interesting

Shambles · **Reply #7: February 05, 2014, 09:19:36**

Excellent post

AlanHo · **Reply #8: February 05, 2014, 10:39:09**

Quote from: Shambles on February 05, 2014, 09:19:36

Excellent post

Like Dazz - I am somewhat mystified by people's resistance to adopt technical improvements. I am quite happy with stop and go on my car and leave it active all the time. So much so - I hardly notice its presence.

When electric starters were invented I wonder how many drivers were so set in their ways that they still used the cranking handle. I have a friend who has switched off ABS on the grounds he "don't trust such complications" and claims to be "good at manual cadence braking anyway - so what's the point".

I bet these people take to the hills when driverless cars are on the road in large numbers..............

paul · **Reply #9: February 05, 2014, 10:59:53**

Ok, what about the fact I like to leave my car ticking over, to let the turbo spin down before I turn it off ?
I always turn the stop/start off coz its bloody annoying.
i think ive stalled it and automatically put my foot on the clutch
and it re-starts anyway.

Doggie 1 · **Reply #10: February 05, 2014, 11:02:51**

Quote from: paul on February 05, 2014, 10:59:53

Ok, what about the fact I like to leave my car ticking over, to let the turbo spin down before I turn it off ?
I always turn it off coz its bloody annoying.
i think ive stalled it and automatically put my foot on the clutch
and it re-starts anyway.

Mm. Good point, that.
I hadn't thought about the turbo aspect.
I too like to cool mine before turning off.

Just Rick · **Reply #11: February 05, 2014, 12:33:35**

Quote from: Doggie 1 on February 05, 2014, 11:02:51

Quote from: paul on February 05, 2014, 10:59:53
Ok, what about the fact I like to leave my car ticking over, to let the turbo spin down before I turn it off ?
I always turn it off coz its bloody annoying.
i think ive stalled it and automatically put my foot on the clutch
and it re-starts anyway.

Mm. Good point, that.
I hadn't thought about the turbo aspect.
I too like to cool mine before turning off.

Turbo,Turbo bearings and oil technology have come a long long way from the days where it was a necessity to let a turbo wind down,force of habit I sit there of a minute or two before I turn mine off as well,but every now and then I forget and just shut off

AlanHo · **Reply #12: February 05, 2014, 12:48:12**

Let's give the turbo more thought. Hyundai have head hunted the leading engine designers from VW, BMW and others for their attack on the World car market. The 1.6 CRDI engine is generally recognised as one of the most durable and most efficient at the present time.

Now Hyundai provide a 5 year full warranty - unlike most other brands - and fit the stop and go feature to their turbo-diesel range. Is it conceivable that they would do this if the stop and go would cause turbo reliability problems? I think not.........

Doggie 1 · **Reply #13: February 05, 2014, 12:49:49**

But it might at five and a half years.

AlanHo · **Reply #14: February 05, 2014, 14:11:47**

Quote from: Doggie 1 on February 05, 2014, 12:49:49

But it might at five and a half years.

Another example of brilliant forensic detective work.............

paul · **Reply #15: February 05, 2014, 17:23:50**

Quote from: AlanHo on February 05, 2014, 14:11:47

Quote from: Doggie 1 on February 05, 2014, 12:49:49
But it might at five and a half years.

Another example of brilliant forensic detective work.............

Yeaaaa, just after the warranty runs out, logical, then they sell you a new one, good thinking Doggie

also, if they can make a starter motor last longer to cope with stop/start, why didn't they make the old one so it lasted twice as long ?

plasticphyte · **Reply #16: February 05, 2014, 19:51:03**

Quote from: Dazzler on February 05, 2014, 08:37:25

...

As I've said before, I can't understand all the negativity.

I've lived with it for over 3 years and wish my cars had always had it!

BTW nice find Rusty! Quite interesting

I like to remain in control over as much of the car as possible, and I definitely do not want the computer deciding when to switch the engine off; particularly when I am at a set of lights and could need that extra second or two it takes the car to start to get moving in an emergency situation.

I would be particularly interested to see real world stats on how much more fuel is saved with it on vs off.

Dazzler · **Reply #17: February 05, 2014, 20:16:59**

Quote from: plasticphyte on February 05, 2014, 19:51:03

I like to remain in control over as much of the car as possible, and I definitely do not want the computer deciding when to switch the engine off; particularly when I am at a set of lights and could need that extra second or two it takes the car to start to get moving in an emergency situation.

I would be particularly interested to see real world stats on how much more fuel is saved with it on vs off.

In my case I still have electric so instant take off, but think most restart instantaneously.

Depends on the system as per Rusty's link but most companies wouldn't go to the added expense and complexity for no gain.

Phil №❶ · **Reply #18: February 05, 2014, 20:33:53**

I am one of the sceptics, I'm afraid. I like my engine running and if there's that much hold up, I'll find another path, drive at at a different time , or switch the engine off myself for trains, etc. I can't see the extra cost of the associated controllers and a mechanical device to restart it, offsetting the fuel bill by much. I think it's more about attracting fuel tax offsets in Europe to make their cars more saleable.

paul · **Reply #19: February 05, 2014, 22:26:36**

Quote from: Phil №❶ on February 05, 2014, 20:33:53

I am one of the sceptics, I'm afraid. I like my engine running and if there's that much hold up, I'll find another path, drive at at a different time , or switch the engine off myself for trains, etc. I can't see the extra cost of the associated controllers and a mechanical device to restart it, offsetting the fuel bill by much. I think it's more about attracting fuel tax offsets in Europe to make their cars more saleable.

My sentiment exactly !

There you go dazzler, time for a vote thread, all stop/start owners. on or off ?

Phil №❶ · **Reply #20: February 05, 2014, 22:47:58**

Do a poll, paul

Doggie 1 · **Reply #21: February 05, 2014, 23:51:51**

I'm a no.

Keith · **Reply #22: February 06, 2014, 00:02:19**

I'm a No as well...

Surferdude · **Reply #23: February 06, 2014, 00:50:10**

Me too. If I had one.

paul · **Reply #24: February 06, 2014, 08:12:07**

Quote from: Doggie 1 on February 05, 2014, 23:51:51

I'm a no.

No, no what?

no you don't use or like it,
or no you don't turn it off?

personally I just wish the switch was OFF all the time and you could turn it ON when you wanted it.

Doggie 1 · **Reply #25: February 06, 2014, 08:19:54**

Quote from: paul on February 06, 2014, 08:12:07

Quote from: Doggie 1 on February 05, 2014, 23:51:51
I'm a no.

No, no what?

no you don't use or like it,
or no you don't turn it off?

personally I just wish the switch was OFF all the time and you could turn it ON when you wanted it.

No, I don't have it.
No, I don't want it.

Dazzler · **Reply #26: February 06, 2014, 08:22:18**

Most of those who don't like it probably haven't lived with a good version of it for a reasonable time (to get used to it)

Doggie 1 · **Reply #27: February 06, 2014, 08:23:17**

Quote from: Dazzler on February 06, 2014, 08:22:18

Most of those who don't like it probably haven't lived with a good version of it for a reasonable time (to get used to it)

Probably true Dazz.

Surferdude · **Reply #28: February 06, 2014, 09:22:58**

Quote from: Dazzler on February 06, 2014, 08:22:18

Most of those who don't like it probably haven't lived with a good version of it for a reasonable time (to get used to it)

There is a lot of technology I like. And some I don't see any need for.

Phil №❶ · **Reply #29: February 06, 2014, 10:16:22**

I guess someone somewhere has calculated the fuel saving capabilities of this function ( a good job for Rusty the researcher).

With the exception of Hybrids, which have a nice electric motor to spirit them away, Diesels require some form of mechanism to restart the engine. My understanding of Diesels is that at idle, they use much less fuel to keep running compared to a petrol engine. So what is the actual saving in litres.

The savings in cost is another equation. Given that the car has to have extra equipment to facilitate the restart function, there will be a higher initial cost to purchase. If something goes wrong then after warranty, the cost will be significant in order to diagnose and repair, so there goes a good portion of the fuel savings. So I'll be quite happy to pass on this one thanks.