Post by: Shambles on September 30, 2008, 20:53:44
Following a splendid review by a fellow moderator on HOCGB (see my sig) I emailed these guys about a discount for purchase.
I will be purchasing one of these gadgets as soon as I receive a reply. Note that we can obtain these at 99 EUR (not the quoted 148 EUR) because of a discount we have negotiated.
(http://www.autotechnik-saretz.de/GS-Shop/1%2D007.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y297/ShamblesX/30-09-200820-48-04.jpg)
Here's the review
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y297/ShamblesX/Various/Copyof30-09-200819-07-551.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y297/ShamblesX/Various/Copyof30-09-200819-07-552.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y297/ShamblesX/Various/Copyof30-09-200819-07-553.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y297/ShamblesX/Various/Copyof30-09-200819-07-554.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y297/ShamblesX/Various/Copyof30-09-200819-07-555.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y297/ShamblesX/Various/Copyof30-09-200819-07-556.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y297/ShamblesX/Various/Copyof30-09-200819-07-557.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y297/ShamblesX/Various/Copyof30-09-200819-07-558.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y297/ShamblesX/Various/Copyof30-09-200819-07-559.jpg)
Post by: Dazzler on September 30, 2008, 23:45:16
I haven't read all that info yet but looks like a bargain... are you going to be the Guinea "Pig"
That's what we call call people in Aus who try something out first....
Post by: Shambles on October 01, 2008, 08:18:25
Quote from: "dazzling_darryl"
Hi Shambles,Hi Dazz,
I haven't read all that info yet but looks like a bargain... are you going to be the Guinea "Pig"
That's what we call call people in Aus who try something out first....
Yes we use that term too but the reviewer has had one in his Tucson for a few months so he's been the guinea pig. I just got a reply from the manufacturers and they'll ship one for 109 EUR, so I'll be ordering one in the next couple of hours.
Post by: EymaTeapot on October 01, 2008, 11:57:03
The guinea pig in the review could be fictional, or paid by the company, how would you know?
I look forward to your non-bias opinion on the product when you trial it
Post by: Shambles on October 01, 2008, 12:00:48
And if it doesn't make me smile during low revs, it'll go straight back
Yes, the reviewer could be fictional although I've been following his progress over the past 6 months before he wrote the review.
Post by: eye30 on October 01, 2008, 20:26:06
I'll see what results shambles get before I commit.
Post by: tiny on October 02, 2008, 16:19:50
Post by: Lakes on October 07, 2008, 08:29:49
hey i had some bad luck, a Roo hopped out in front of the car i was following he stoped i stopped and the young guy following me used my car to stop. but not too bad compared to what his car looks like. bloody Roo's the sooner you start eating them in GB the better
Post by: Dazzler on October 07, 2008, 09:28:02
Post by: Lakes on October 07, 2008, 19:37:51
Quote from: "dazzling_darryl"
Hi lakes .... :cry:Hey Dazz i was down the coast it was raining, was in my i30 was surprised how well it stood up to the impact as it was 100kph speed limit. the mazda that hit me up the rear looked bad and bent.
the good part is i can now get a tow bar as the rear bumper will have to come off.
Shambles my friend in USA that has a VW 1.9TDI Jetta 6 speed DSG got one of those fuel adder's from this company, his is adjustable and he got good gains and tested it on a dyno as well as on a track, before his GPS showed his top speed that he could reach was 115mph, after he fitted this and at the E setting ( ajustable) his GPS speedo showed 137MPH. he e mailed me the other day told me the same company now offer a turbo boost adjustment.
this is link to the unit he used but it's for VW TDI http://www.dieseltuning.ca/modules/digi_tpc.html (http://www.dieseltuning.ca/modules/digi_tpc.html)
Post by: Shambles on October 07, 2008, 20:07:25
Post by: i30mania on October 07, 2008, 20:22:14
It helped to improve low rpm performance, but only disadvantage I experienced the trip computer gives wrong data of fuel consumption and km to go . My fuel finished in a shopping center's parking area
Post by: Shambles on October 07, 2008, 20:25:17
Quote from: "i30mania"
I am using that tuningbox since 4 months which I have purchased from same guy.Thanks for the info. What setting have you placed the rotary adjuster at?
Quote from: "i30mania"
It helped to improve low rpm performance, but only disadvantage I experienced the trip computer gives wrong data of fuel consumption and km to go . My fuel finished in a shopping center's parking area :mrgreen:
Post by: i30mania on October 07, 2008, 20:48:09
I placed it to 2 but I havent seen any difference.
As I was plugging the box, made a terrible mistake. I plug the wrong side up of the connector. Thought it should be designed , you cannot plug it wrong. Be careful of that. Engine started but no response to the pedal. I am very lucky for not harming the engine.
Post by: Shambles on October 07, 2008, 21:13:17
Try changing yours to that setting
Post by: sopel on October 12, 2008, 22:27:57
i've had one of this powerboxes/tuningbox etc...
(http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/7981/img1958db2.th.jpg) (http://img169.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1958db2.jpg)
i didn't have it now, i plug it off because i've had problem with some part in my gearbox (i don't know what's the name of that part in English, but it synchronize something in gearbox , when turning on 2nd gear)
i have it mounted in service before buying my car, and they said that it should be plug off if i don't want to have problems with car (or something like that)
it cost me something about 1500 AUD (2600 PLN - Polish Zloty's :P
again, sorry for my English
P.S.
That's my graph after box.
115BHP -> 143 BHP
255NM -> 279 NM
(http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/4029/hamowniadk3.th.jpg) (http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hamowniadk3.jpg)(http://img231.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif) (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)
--
Post by: Lakes on October 14, 2008, 19:08:57
Is your car Auto trans 4 speed? or manuel trans 5 speed?
Post by: sopel on October 14, 2008, 19:44:08
Post by: Dazzler on October 14, 2008, 22:04:30
Post by: sopel on October 14, 2008, 22:38:15
but answering to your question. great :P ) and my little accident, that i didn't mention before. but it was long time ago (march 08) and then i was without my car for above 1,5 month.
maybe later i will post some more info about what happened there
cheers
Post by: Dazzler on October 15, 2008, 02:33:58
Quote from: "sopel"
don't off topic 8-)
But I forgive you
27,000 getting some good numbers up now (did you take pix of damage)?
Post by: Lakes on October 15, 2008, 18:53:18
sometimes when you get a motor to make more power & Torque than they have stock. And you drive them hard under full excelleration they can be much harder to shift fast, especialy from first to second gear as more pressure on the gears. for racing they do things to the gear box to help shift fast, but it's not always good for street cars especially if they do a lot of miles, as after a while they can jump out of gear when you have them in a lower gear and you back off.
only other thing you could do is change the gearbox oil for a better quality oil. i like Redline Heavy shockproof gear oil but not sure what one would suit the i30 box? they have a light shockproof oil too, these oil's are fully synthetic and help gear shifting noticibly. they are expencive , i think last time i checked was about $150 Liter. but probably other good oil's out there too.
When is Shambles going to plug in the box?
Post by: Shambles on October 15, 2008, 18:57:08
Quote from: "Lakes"
When is Shambles going to plug in the box? :lol:
Fergie has her liquids replaced on Friday while I'm at work.
The Box will be fitted Saturday morning
Post by: Lakes on October 15, 2008, 19:20:53
are you after more performance or just seeing if you can improve economy?
Post by: Shambles on October 15, 2008, 19:28:42
Post by: Lakes on October 16, 2008, 19:35:20
Quote from: "Shambles"
A bit of both. My main interest is in throttle response as I'm starting to get annoyed when I slow down on the highway then need to speed up; if I don't floor it I get nothing for quite a while (except a few puffs of smoke). Also, setting off from a standstill is sluggish and this box promises much improvement in that department :mrgreen:
Hey Shambles, i tried to reply to you last night m8 but i was Forbidden, no worries,
Hey Shambles what you are describing is the normal diesel throtle lag, it is just sompthing diesel's do m8, it is because they don't use a throtle body like a petrol motor. like with a petrol motor you push the throtle and the butterfly lets in a small amount of air the injectors inject fuel, if you got a low performance petrol they start to move sort of :lol: I don't think Shifty wants a trip computer
Cheers m8
Post by: Shambles on October 16, 2008, 19:46:31
From what I've learned about this Bosch unit, it'll improve the response time. Time will tell. Forty eight hours to be precise :D
Post by: Thumper on October 17, 2008, 02:13:15
Quote from: "Shambles"
A bit of both. My main interest is in throttle response as I'm starting to get annoyed when I slow down on the highway then need to speed up; if I don't floor it I get nothing for quite a while (except a few puffs of smoke). Also, setting off from a standstill is sluggish and this box promises much improvement in that department :mrgreen:
I haven't noticed anything like this, instant throttle response when on the highway in 5th gear. From a standstill I use 2nd gear mostly (Unless pointing uphill)
No puffs of anything out the back of mine!
Though only issue I'm still having is overboost down under 2,000 rpm (Have put the stock exhaust back on for two tanks (2,000km)) still doing it. I am recording roughly 18.5psi just under 2,000rpm then the engine starts to miss (Bucks like a it's running on 2 pots) as boost suddenly drops back down to 7.3psi. Flooring it results in nothing. Drop down a gear for a second, then back up to the gear it was having problems with, no more issues. Pulls like a freight train!
Hyundai keep saying it's turbo lag. My guess they have no idea and trying to fob me off. I just wish I could speak to someone who actually has a brain between their ears!
Oh, yeah, stock exhaust has resulted in very poor economy (For me) now sitting on 5.1lt/100km for around town. (All ok down low, but struggles above 3,000rpm)
Post by: Lakes on October 17, 2008, 06:24:52
Quote from: "Shambles"
Cheers Lakes me old buddy.
From what I've learned about this Bosch unit, it'll improve the response time. Time will tell. Forty eight hours to be precise :D
Shambles me young m8 ;)
also was interesting to see you worried your replacement Suzzie swift had you worried she could not handle the Motorway, my m8 here his partner dumped a diesel Range Rover for one of them swifty's but i've never driven one just she likes it it has 17" mags. but it looks a lot less car than the i30 when you get close.
hope they wash Fergie as part of the service?
cheers m8
ps you can see that little flag? :lol:
Post by: ouri30 on October 17, 2008, 10:10:16
Quote
i go off easy but once i get going i go
:o
Bob
Post by: Lakes on October 17, 2008, 10:28:40
Quote from: "ouri30"
Lakes,Quotei go off easy but once i get going i go
:o
Bob
Bob just trying to explain to Shambles how i drive my i30 when leaving lights or so on, as he was talking about, if he goes to floor it from no rev's it goes flat for a short time, i let clutch out then if i want to excellerate i just progressivly push my foot down but i don't rev it high i short shift about 2,500 to 3,500. i think Shambles might have floored it and had it feel flat. have you ever felt that Bob?
but we have to remember, we all drive under different conditions, i think they drive desperately in some parts of GB from storys people tell
also if your not stopped at lights a lot you probably would not notice what Shambles was talking about but i have had that happen but only once or twice, it's something diesels do, from having a full bore and injecting the fuel in to control engine speed, but the i30 does not do too bad, felt it on trucks a few times too specialy with big loads.
Post by: eye30 on October 17, 2008, 19:13:50
Quote from: "Shambles"
Forty eight hours to be precise
Now less than 14 (assuming done around 10am BST)
Post by: Lakes on October 17, 2008, 19:34:59
Post by: Shambles on October 17, 2008, 19:40:13
Quote from: "Lakes"
Back to the subject......... looking forward to the Shamble report.So am I. Let's hope it's not a total shambles. I've got high expectations of this device.
Post by: Shambles on October 18, 2008, 16:39:43
Fitting took 15 minutes, most of which was deciding where to mount the control unit.
I settled on fastening it to the right wing next to the battery.
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y297/ShamblesX/i30/100_0661.jpg)
The interface connects to the CR sensor at the right hand side of the rail:
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y297/ShamblesX/i30/100_0662.jpg)
Due to the heavy traffic around here I've only taken her "round the block" so to speak, but boy am I impressed so far.
My main reason for trying this out was to see if I could get enhanced boost in 1st and 2nd, with a reduction in the "lag" that I've been seeing since I bought her.
YES I AM IMPRESSED AS HELL!!!
The torque is available much much sooner. Pulling away in 1st is like having a supercharger kicking in at 2000rpm. Second gear is like... wow.
Next is to reset the economy meter and see how I do over the next couple of weeks.
The consumption reading for the last 4000 miles (since I reset it) shows 59.3mpg.
Post by: eye30 on October 18, 2008, 17:01:36
I've done a quick calculation based on cost of £88, 60 MPG and diesel at £1.11 per l (£5.04/ gallon). I've ignored torque increase and assumed your driving style will not change i.e. become a "Boy Racer" overnight!!!
Pay back in miles:
5% increase (63 MPG) = 22,000 miles
10% increase (66 MPG) = 11,000 miles
15% increase (69 MPG) = 8,000 miles
20% increase (72 MPG) = 6,286 miles
Post by: Shambles on October 18, 2008, 17:04:02
Thanks for the maths eye30
Post by: Lakes on October 18, 2008, 19:15:06
Grinner30 don't worry Shambles about what might be :)
Shambles i'm deaf as i've said b4 (but talk ok as i went deaf due to an accident) anyway i can't hear the clatter so don't bother me at all,BUT friends say on start up and while cold they can hear it BUT after it is warm they can't hear it they say you would not know it was diesel. might be the Australian climate? was farly warm to hot yesturday here. but my cars at the beaters for who knows how long
. so my trusty Ute is getting me around just fine.How much difference are you noticing on that drive around the block? And do you see any smoke out the rear?
cheers
Post by: Shambles on October 18, 2008, 19:26:40
Thanks for the comments
Post by: Lakes on October 19, 2008, 09:15:08
Post by: Shambles on October 19, 2008, 09:21:10
Quote from: "Lakes"
can you describe the extra oomph down low thanx m8.To start with, the throttle revs instantly at the slightest touch, whereas previously there was an expected delay as described elsewhere by Thumper.
You know that lovely "surge" you feel when you're in 3rd and you floor it? Well it's like that in 1st and 2nd too... an awesome rush of torque.
Post by: Thumper on October 19, 2008, 10:20:36
Post by: Dazzler on October 19, 2008, 10:49:31
Quote from: "Shambles"
Quote from: "Lakes"can you describe the extra oomph down low thanx m8.To start with, the throttle revs instantly at the slightest touch, whereas previously there was an expected delay as described elsewhere by Thumper.
You know that lovely "surge" you feel when you're in 3rd and you floor it? Well it's like that in 1st and 2nd too... an awesome rush of torque.
I'm with thumper - I just looked in the mirror (I'm as green as...) :mrgreen:
Post by: CHB on October 19, 2008, 12:04:28
excited at the thought of it in my car.....if it ever happens lol
Post by: eye30 on October 19, 2008, 13:07:27
Quote from: "Thumper"
*Hands Shambles a tissue*
New pair of kecks may be required.
Post by: Lakes on October 19, 2008, 19:38:28
Quote from: "Shambles"
Quote from: "Lakes"can you describe the extra oomph down low thanx m8.To start with, the throttle revs instantly at the slightest touch, whereas previously there was an expected delay as described elsewhere by Thumper.
You know that lovely "surge" you feel when you're in 3rd and you floor it? Well it's like that in 1st and 2nd too... an awesome rush of torque.
Sounds great Shambles!
I had a great rush of Torque myself yesturday i think i was going from 0 to 100mph (160kph) in 6 seconds on my street Harley no wheelie bars that was half track :)
Cheers mate
ps, was trying to work out what these Dvo's were on about :shock:
Post by: i30mania on November 04, 2008, 00:08:50
Have you changed the switch setting inside the box?
As I said before mine came at "1" as default.
Post by: Shambles on November 04, 2008, 08:16:41
Quote from: "i30mania"
Hi m8,I set mine to the recommended quarter-to-nine position and it's been fantastic
Have you changed the switch setting inside the box?
As I said before mine came at "1" as default.
Post by: sparki30 on November 04, 2008, 20:32:15
Post by: Shambles on November 04, 2008, 21:02:05
Quote from: "sparki30"
Shambles, how has your fuel consumption been affected with it fitted ?
Well I've only filled her up twice since fitted, and the consumption is now showing as 61.9mpg where over the previous 4000 miles since I reset it it was around 59mpg.
The point, though, is all about the increased "grin factor". Until you experience the difference in takeoffs, accel and raw power, you just won't believe it. Best cash I've spent in ages.
Post by: teamgeorge on November 06, 2008, 01:33:28
Post by: Mick on November 06, 2008, 04:54:33
I have just emailed Ulrike Saretz at http://www.autotechnik-saretz.de to confirm that the 99 Euro deal is still available.
He confirms that it is and shipping is an additional 15 Euro to Australia.
So thats a total of 114 Euro in total. Less than $220 AUD at the moment.
I guess the DW tuning solution is more elegant but this achieves more or less the same results without permanenlty modifying the PCM.
I am ordering one by email today, and will update you all when it arrives.
Like Shambles I really only want to eliminate some of the down low hesitation which has scared me a couple of times when trying to accelerate from low revs in second gear.
Shamble seems to have confirmed that fuel economy doesn't suffer, if not is marginally improved.
Post by: Pip on November 06, 2008, 05:25:20
Quote
I really only want to eliminate some of the down low hesitation which has scared me a couple of times when trying to accelerate from low revs in second gear.
It's not the hesitation... it's what comes after that
If that can be smoothed out it would be worth $220.I await your report with interest.
Pip
Post by: Shambles on November 06, 2008, 08:25:23
Quote from: "Mick"
... I really only want to eliminate some of the down low hesitation ...
It eliminates all the hesitation. There's power available right from the slightest touch of the pedal, and it's a very urgent accel from there, if you set it up as they recommend in the leaflet.
Post by: teamgeorge on November 06, 2008, 08:28:02
i'll await your review mick, i live in western vic in horsham and if you give a good review i'd like to you post pictures etc i'd probably get one on your opinion mick and get the companies details off you and who you spoke with there...
look forward to it mate.
note: not that Shambles opinion isn't as good as a fellow country victorians but i could imagine some indifference from the UK model to ours even if its ever so minor. plus i get to see if mick will actually receive it... ive been ripped off on the net too many times now... nothing major worst being $150...
Post by: Lakes on November 06, 2008, 09:04:45
i also look forward to seeing how mick goes. i think it's a bargain if it does what shambles one does.
Post by: teamgeorge on November 06, 2008, 12:44:09
so if i wanted to maximize the cars torque/power how would i go about it? i might just get one of these things Shambles and mick are testing...
Post by: Lakes on November 06, 2008, 18:53:26
you see diesels were designed to be low reving hi Torque, they use extreamly high compression, the i30 is not that high compression at around 17.00.1 but with 19 pounds boost the dynamic compression will be high. so all this pressure up in the chamber pushs down on the piston and rods and on the lower end of the rods were they hold the crank sharft and it pushs down on the cranksharft itself. at medium rev's this is ok but as revs build up it will start to put more stress on things. you pump more fuel into a diesel thats going to be even more stress as this extra fuel has to be compressed ignited and burnt. at below 3,000 rev should be no problems, but if you start reving them to 5,000 all the time there could be a BANG.
also we have to remember useing more power and Torque will put more wear and tear on the clutch gearbox & drive train.
I have not read the fine print, but i would expect the warranty to cover broke parts but, warn out parts could be classed as normal wear and i don't think that could be claimed under warranty. like if my brake pads wear out i would not expect Hyundai to give me new one's or if tyres wear out or so on.
i'm just explaining all this to you so you understand.
i have driven my i30 18,000k now i have noticed the????? ( hard to describe but it's what shambles talked about) but i just put it down as normal state of tune to get by stringent imissions, and it does not really worry me overly, the car is still great fun to drive and as i'm in 5 gear more than i'm in 1st gear i never really notice, plus if i'm in traffic i just drive it like i would drive a large truck i use first and ease out the clutch so no flat spot at all that way as the ECU also controls engine speed as its fly by wire.
i could ramble on all day ;) .
anyway i would use one of these box's no worries just i would not be trying to race with it just would use it to see what car felt like with it.
For me there is no problem with the i30 as it is.
cheers
just my moneys worth
ps also thought i would mention, when you buy goods from oversea's you need to check out import duty's, i have had gifts sent to me in the past free and got hit with large import tax bill's. i happened with goods from USA and from Italy, then we got free trade with USA so no import tax for personal use things now. so check out how we stand trade wise Germany to Australia or you might get a shock when goods arrive, they hold them at post office with a large tax bill.
Post by: Shambles on November 06, 2008, 19:26:27
Quote from: "Lakes"
...so check out how we stand trade wise Germany to Australia or you might get a shock when goods arrive, they hold them at post office with a large tax bill.Good points well laid out there Lakes my man.
My tuningbox had been opened by UK customs but no VAT was added, so no extra duty applied. Then again, I'm in Europe.
Post by: ouri30 on November 07, 2008, 03:02:58
I have bought a heap of golf gear and some LEDs from the US. From experience, I have found that if the total value is <$300AU, customs pass it through no worries.
However, exceed this amount and they slap on the duty and add GST (VAT in UK I believe). It happened to me once with LEDs. I thought I was going to save on freight by buying a bigger lot and WRONG!
Bob
Post by: teamgeorge on November 07, 2008, 09:12:30
Quote from: "Lakes"
TeamGeorge, the way Shambles has done it sounds like the best way, but Shambles is a grandaddy with experience so he can safly use something like this for increased low end Torque. But if you are out for all out performance to impress or race. you are buying the wrong car mate.
you see diesels were designed to be low reving hi Torque, they use extreamly high compression, the i30 is not that high compression at around 17.00.1 but with 19 pounds boost the dynamic compression will be high. so all this pressure up in the chamber pushs down on the piston and rods and on the lower end of the rods were they hold the crank sharft and it pushs down on the cranksharft itself. at medium rev's this is ok but as revs build up it will start to put more stress on things. you pump more fuel into a diesel thats going to be even more stress as this extra fuel has to be compressed ignited and burnt. at below 3,000 rev should be no problems, but if you start reving them to 5,000 all the time there could be a BANG.
also we have to remember useing more power and Torque will put more wear and tear on the clutch gearbox & drive train.
I have not read the fine print, but i would expect the warranty to cover broke parts but, warn out parts could be classed as normal wear and i don't think that could be claimed under warranty. like if my brake pads wear out i would not expect Hyundai to give me new one's or if tyres wear out or so on.
i'm just explaining all this to you so you understand.
i have driven my i30 18,000k now i have noticed the????? ( hard to describe but it's what shambles talked about) but i just put it down as normal state of tune to get by stringent imissions, and it does not really worry me overly, the car is still great fun to drive and as i'm in 5 gear more than i'm in 1st gear i never really notice, plus if i'm in traffic i just drive it like i would drive a large truck i use first and ease out the clutch so no flat spot at all that way as the ECU also controls engine speed as its fly by wire.
i could ramble on all day ;)
yeah no worries i gathered what the car is before i ordered it. just seeing if i could make it a race car on the side ;)
Post by: Lakes on November 07, 2008, 20:24:21
but i suspect your just going for the pose of wheels and lowered. they will always go around corners harder if center of gravity is lower, just i'm wondering what the stock damping will work like, i think it would be even better if you could find an expert to help change the damping as well as different springs.
one problem i have had a number of times, but i still have never seen anyone else post on, is that if i drive out of a car park and there is a dip were you go over the drainage side of road, i get a Bang big time, first time it happened my girlfriend was in shock, i just said a four letter word
. i got out could see no damage uner front of car, later i got under the car and found the problem, it is the metal ring that is there to use to attach a tow rope. it is welded to the metal chasis. the stock springs and damping seem on soft side, when i drive over something like that at my normal speed the weight on the motor seems to push front down and that metal ring hits the ground with a solid jolt and bang. my car is\ stock hight. i own a very low falcon ute ( lower than an XR model ) i have driven that over those same drainage ditchs at same speed without hitting the ground. but lowering the car will not make that metal ring any lower it will just make the body of the car lower, i'm thinking if the sping damping is same rate just car goes lower when i drive over things like that the body will hit the deck. just thought i would mention this.PS this has never happened in sydney just when i'm out in country towns, they seem to have deep gutters or something?
Post by: camerooney on November 07, 2008, 21:23:11
And culdersacs too.
My gutters are quite steep. The key is going out on an angle
Used to drive a BA mk2 XR6 which was pretty low with the side skirts and kit.
Think I only scraped that once going out of the driveway. And it wasn't too bad. As you say lakes, mostly its just the hook underneath the car.
Post by: Shambles on November 08, 2008, 08:45:05
Post by: eye30 on November 08, 2008, 11:55:53
Quote from: "Shambles"
I removed the tuningbox last night
it's like driving through treacle by comparison
Wow. Box must really improve the drive experience.
Hope inserts last longer than originals.
Anyway you can always claim under warranty again.
Post by: Shambles on November 08, 2008, 12:14:09
Being waited on hand and foot - £0
Tuningbox refitted, the grin on my face - £priceless
Post by: teamgeorge on November 08, 2008, 12:37:30
Post by: Lakes on November 08, 2008, 20:33:17
Quote from: "Shambles"
New chromes fitted - £0
Being waited on hand and foot - £0
Tuningbox refitted, the grin on my face - £priceless :lol: :o
Post by: Shambles on November 08, 2008, 20:53:16
Each tyre was removed and the two studs for each chrome insert unbolted from the rear which allowed each one to be replaced. Took them an hour.
And no, they called me Steve
Post by: Lakes on November 09, 2008, 06:15:23
Post by: ouri30 on November 09, 2008, 08:19:02
Quote from: "Lakes"
well Steve, i have not seen ......
Nah, has to be Shambles. Steve just doesn't sit right with me. Once Shambles, always Shambles.
Bob
Post by: Shambles on November 09, 2008, 09:51:19
Quote from: "Lakes"
have you seen what they look like with chrome covers removed?No I haven't.
Also, quite a few members have these fondmetal tech-5 alloys. Diva has them iirc
Post by: Lakes on November 09, 2008, 18:50:58
i'm more than happy with my steel wheels & Kumho tyres. these tyre's might be knocked by some people but they work for me! i have put them through there paces in the wet on some stwisty mountain roads and they have no let go yet, they also seem to be wearing quite well.
reason i like the steel wheels is they are flexable and robust, and i can park the car anywhere without worrying they will get stollen. i have never had one car\ stollen yet.
cheers
Post by: Shambles on November 09, 2008, 19:45:53
Quote from: "Lakes"
what was the problem with the chrome?Pics are in the **SEVERE PITTING** thread viewtopic.php?f=11&t=912&p=12198#p12198 (https://www.i30ownersclub.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=912&p=12198#p12198)
Post by: Lakes on November 10, 2008, 09:45:11
to me looks like the metal might not have been prepared right before they chromed them.
good luck Fergie
Post by: Arg on November 19, 2008, 04:55:06
Quote from: "Shambles"
I removed the tuningbox last night .... Just been to the local shop and it's like driving through treacle by comparison :D
Hi Shambles, I'm very interested in following your lead and trying this out. Have you had a chance to check for smoke? It might need an assistant to verify that she is blowing clean.
My brief look into the subject of chipping suggests that some units only dial up the fuel and that this can make the car more prone to smoking.
Do you know whether the ASA unit you bought is a basic type (fuel-only) or more sophisticated fuel-and-timing control like the DPchip?
Post by: Shambles on November 19, 2008, 08:37:18
I've noticed no smoke. As for the rest, I've no idea
Post by: Lakes on November 19, 2008, 09:10:29
Quote from: "Arg"
Quote from: "Shambles"I removed the tuningbox last night .... Just been to the local shop and it's like driving through treacle by comparison :D
Hi Shambles, I'm very interested in following your lead and trying this out. Have you had a chance to check for smoke? It might need an assistant to verify that she is blowing clean.
My brief look into the subject of chipping suggests that some units only dial up the fuel and that this can make the car more prone to smoking.
Do you know whether the ASA unit you bought is a basic type (fuel-only) or more sophisticated fuel-and-timing control like the DPchip?
Hi ARG, i think you have been reading up on the DP chip, i have looked at what a few write on there add's on web page's and i've seen some that blow smoke from adding more fuel. but they were a different set up than the little i30 CRDi. i have a friend that has a similar set up to Shambles on a 1.9 TDI VW Jetta DSG he is a retired engineer. he studied them all before going with what he has, his system was pricy too. he told me the type that change fuel timming do not give a very good power gain. my friends Jetta has go to 137MPH AS MEASURED WITH HIS\ Garman GPS he also had it on a dyno and it showed good gains. it is adjustable like shambles unit, said if you turn it right up it blows smoke but he can still get good gains with o smoke.
i diesel motor needs more fuel to go faster, thats just how they are controled.
Post by: Rubix on November 19, 2008, 09:54:09
Post by: Lakes on November 19, 2008, 18:25:17
Quote from: "Rubix"
Is this useful only for diesel engines? Is there an equivalent for Petrol engines?Hi Rubix, yes this box Shambles has plugged in is only for Diesel motors.
you can tune petrol i30 but not with this system and i think to tune a petrol motor to get gains like this would cost a lot of money as it takes a lot of time to tune EFI that has fly by wire, you have to know where throtle possition is, then map fuel and ignition curve and work your way up to full throtle, very slow time consuming process. but i do not think end result would be worth the effort or the cost.
better off just driving the car how it is as they should go well enough after they are run in.
you could fit a K&N replacement filter ( flows more air than stock filter) and maybe one of the exhast companys make extractors for there car but i'm not in the know on that, but well designed extractors can help. those two mods would also help fuel economy if you drive carefully.
cheers
Post by: Rubix on November 19, 2008, 23:47:07
Post by: Arg on November 22, 2008, 01:15:39
I must say the price of this thing is amazingly good compared to the competition. Until I found this thread, I was resigned to a very painful $1,000 - $1,300 bill for an Aussie-made product. And I was unsure whether it was worth it, for me. I would have guessed the true value of these things to be $400-$500, so I am very happy with a $220 bill. Thanks to Shambles for posting his experiment!! :D The other great thing about Shambles' thread is that it reassures other i30 owners that the supplier is legitimate: I have almost been scammed in the past by too-good-to-be-true internet prices, so my suspicion now rises faster than my wallet when I see a price 1/4 of the going rate! I am sure I am not alone in this way, so thanks again to Shambles.
PS - Lakes is right, I read that stuff about fuel and timing controls on the DPChip website. Maybe they are just promoting themselves by raising doubts about the competition....
PPS - I am surprised by the dealer delivery delays reported on this forum by some owners; months! I placed my i30 order last Tuesday and it will be delivered on Friday. That is ten days. Just the right amount of time to get excited but not frustrated! ;D
Post by: Mick on November 22, 2008, 01:17:36
First impressions that it improves torque and throttle response, so much so that normal driving requires very little throttle. It will lose traction in second gear if power is dialled in more aggressively.
I did notice when rolling through and intersection and flooring the throttle in second gear at night, that I could see a haze behind the car. I had a car behind me, so their headlights highlighted this. However I believe I have noticed this "haze" in similar circumstances without the tuning box.
There is no evidence of smoke in daylight hours, even with the box turned to maximum. In fact there is no noticable performance difference between the 6 o'clock and maximum settings.
I have no idea how fuel economy is affected, but I suspect the efficiency improvement by increasing the fuel pressure compensates for the increased torque. (Shamble's figures would indicate this.).
I have studied the circuit however the tops of the IC's have been ground so no luck trying to reproduce it. One IC is written on by hand and is in a socket which I suspect means it is some kind of programmable microprocessor (a Pic?). The IC's are all 8 pin devices, so the others may be op amps or A/D converters? I will try to find what the output of the fuel rail sensor is. All in all a cheap mod, that certainly makes it (more?) fun to drive.
I only hope it doesn't add to the 2 speeding fines the i30 has already received!
Post by: Thumper on November 22, 2008, 04:33:10
Those without a Scangauge, I'd advise you grab one if you are going to fit one of these tuning boxes. :mrgreen:
Post by: Mick on November 22, 2008, 06:35:13
Anything that might be of concern?
I would of thought all other sensors would still be reporting accurately and that the pcm/ecm could make adjustments based on those inputs albeit that the fuel pressure will be understated by the common rail sensor?
Post by: Lakes on November 22, 2008, 10:45:22
For those of you that have a Scangauge, just a friendly reminder to keep a close eye on your post intercooler air temps.
Those without a Scangauge, I'd advise you grab one if you are going to fit one of these tuning boxes. :mrgreen:
i've had a problem with the scangauge Thumper and don't think i would risk useing one on my car again, although they will replace mine free.
also i can't see how that tuning box will effect intercooler temps, as when i had my scangauge on my car i saw how when the Turbo Boost went up and you drove useing a lot of boost the intercooler temps went up especially if you climb a lot of hills. but this tuning box just increases fuel not turbo boost.
just how i see it.
Post by: Thumper on November 22, 2008, 21:42:33
i've had a problem with the scangauge Thumper and don't think i would risk useing one on my car again, although they will replace mine free.
also i can't see how that tuning box will effect intercooler temps, as when i had my scangauge on my car i saw how when the Turbo Boost went up and you drove useing a lot of boost the intercooler temps went up especially if you climb a lot of hills. but this tuning box just increases fuel not turbo boost.
just how i see it.
Problem with the Scangauge? Will not use risk using one in a car again? What happened?
Ok, in a petrol engined vehicle, combustion temps rise when you lean out the mixtures. Correct?
In a diesel, temps rise when you richen the mixture.
What does the Tuningbox do? Add more fuel.
What happens when you add more fuel in a diesel? The combustion temps rise, so does the exhaust velocity, thus more exhaust gases going through the turbo.
I am seeing up to 33.7psi (MAP) from 1,700rpm (With torque booster set to full, power set to standard)
Running these kind of boost pressures, for so long in the rpm range, puts allot of heat strain on the small Intercooler.
All I'm suggesting is, if you are going to use a Tuningbox in Australia, during summer, and wish to 'turn the whick up' a bit, just keep an eye on post intercooler air temps.
Once you start getting above 80 degrees C, you'll only asking from trouble.
Post by: Lakes on November 22, 2008, 23:04:45
well i would agree with you, but anything that add's performance will generate more heat that way also can't expect a small diesel to last a long time when it puts out more power. i would also use the best oil i could obtain, and higher standard than minimum factory requirement. but that type of oil does not come cheap, as you know. i would still like to use LPG with diesel just probably never will as the price and finding a place for the gas cylinder, also getting factory approval would all play there part to put it on the too hard to expencive, and probably would not recover costs in fuel savings.
cheers
Post by: davet on December 28, 2008, 10:33:54
Post by: Dazzler on December 28, 2008, 10:53:50
I've been tempted to get one too but seeing how my insurance reacted to my exhaust mod decided against it.. Plus I have enough trouble keeping to the speed limits with all all this torque.
P.S. I am jealous... :mrgreen:
Post by: davet on December 28, 2008, 11:04:46
Post by: Shambles on December 28, 2008, 15:36:52
Post by: Lakes on December 28, 2008, 18:53:58
probably good to be able to monitor the intercooler air temps like Thumper said, but what can you do if they go up high?
you can fit water methanole injection, this will cool the air intake charge, no worry about water in chamber as it evaporates b4 it reach's chamber. but it the temps go up a lot and you use some methode to cool the intake air charge down. you still have to remember the Turbo will still be runing at higher temp's. but i have seen turbo's on engine dyno's runing that hot you would think they were in a furnace. just make sure you use good quality oil to meet highest standards, and don't forget to allow your motor to idle for a few minutes specially if your driving fast in hilly country on a hot day.
i'm luck as if i feel like going quick i just drive my V8.
but i would like one of these tuning box's too :)
interesting to note.
i've found out what Thumper has been saying about the sport muffler.
i've been doing a lot of country trips, with the sport muffler on i could get below 5L/100K going 110kph over mountains but since removing it i get 5.1L/100k and this past weekend 5L/100k
Post by: davet on January 03, 2009, 11:09:23
I'm going to "turn up" my boost later today. Setting is currently at quarter to 9, so I'll nudge it up to 10 to 4.Notice any difference?
Post by: Shambles on January 03, 2009, 11:18:32
Yes.I'm going to "turn up" my boost later today. Setting is currently at quarter to 9, so I'll nudge it up to 10 to 4.Notice any difference?
I've lost the low-end torque and she struggles doing 30mph in 4th... I need to keep changing down to stop the "hunting" for air.
Top end was improved and I should be grateful as most of my journeys are at motorway speeds, but I'm turning it back down later today as I only ever wanted the box to improve low-end grunt, which it did until I tinkered :rolleyes:
Post by: davet on January 03, 2009, 11:22:47
Post by: Shambles on January 03, 2009, 11:24:56
Post by: Lakes on January 03, 2009, 20:37:03
Also i was reading back over my last post. i wrote if you were driving up a lot of hill's fast, that would cause the turbo's temps to rise and also the intake ( intercooler ) temp to rise. allow the motor to idle a while, but what i ment was, allow it to idle a few minutes before you are going to turn motor off. if you are on a trip just keep driving, as i'm possitive that the ECU would give out a warning of some type if things got too hot.
Shambles & DaveT have you thought about testing the different setting on a Dyno?
Problem with trying to make motors run better or go faster is, it can be never ending :). like you make a change like this and you feel a gain, and you enjoy the new feel your car or what ever it is you have improved, has after the change, then you get used to that new feel till it is not new anymore and you want more, so you do what shambles just done, but you find b4 you where at the top of the hill so to speek. then you made the change and went over the hill and your down the other side about were you started from b4 :).
it's all trial and error. if you use a good Dyno, you can test those settings and see what works best then just leave it at that.
problem is finding a good dyno with a good opperator that can be trusted.
if i get one of these it won't be for performance gain, it will be for economy, so can any other aussie's tell me if they are useing a lot less fuel with these tunning box's on?
cheers
Post by: Shambles on January 03, 2009, 20:45:13
I judge the use of the device by the feel, but couldn't quite get a happy feeling with it struggling at low speeds. I don't really know what a dyno is nor care all that much, but I do not like the feeling I got with the setting that it had, which is why I returned it to the recommended setting for the i30, as specified by the manufacturer.
As you said though, people will naturally tinker as I did. I might even try it at jack zero to see what it does; then at full setting. Please pray for Fergie.
Post by: Lakes on January 03, 2009, 21:42:27
well... Dyno's are what you would call a test tool, to test your tune, they mostly get used to develop race motors.
they are a safe way, and a fast way to see what works.
most race teams have there own engine Dyno, you need to remove the motor and fit it to the dyno directly then it goes into a sealed ( Bullit proof ) sound proof room. if it blows up you don't get hit by flying engine parts.
there are what they call chassis dyno's you put your drive wheels on rollers, the modern ones use a programed magnetic load control, this is mostly needed to test Air Fuel Ratio, as you need a load on the motor to get an accurate reading on Air Fuel ratio. also you need a load to measure Horse Power or KW or PS or any of the other measurements you wish to use to find out how much power your car is making, also need the load to measure Torque. problem is to be able to compare the results with others world wide you need to use the same weather setting's as they use, as air quality plays a big part in itself. so most would use SAE (soc auto engineers ) weather correction factor. this part is important for race teams as if they are developing a motor over a period of time, they need to be able to compare past dyno testing. so need the correction factor to make it compareable. you would be surprised how much difference air quality can make to your dyno results, or even how your car performs.
so shambles ol mate you got more than you asked for :wink:
Cheers
ps do you think Fergie drinks less now?
Post by: davet on January 03, 2009, 21:49:29
Post by: Lakes on January 03, 2009, 21:56:52
Post by: Shambles on January 03, 2009, 22:11:29
Post by: Mick on January 04, 2009, 07:21:21
There was some response at the minimum setting between 2.4 and 2.5 volt where the output ramped from about 0.85V to 2.4 -2.5v, other than that the output tracked the input.
As I don't know whether the response of the sensor is linear or logarithmic it is hard to guess as to what the variations mean in terms of fuel pressure. I found a PDF that stated the output of the sensor varied between 0.5 and 4.5 volts.
As can be seen the tuning box has no effect below 2.4v, i guess the next task is to check out the voltages whilst driving to see what values correspond to various driving conditions.
Does the scanguage report fuel pressure or fuel pressure sensor data?
Post by: Lakes on January 04, 2009, 09:32:16
Post by: Thumper on January 04, 2009, 09:45:33
Just thought I'd share that bit of info. :cool:
Post by: Lakes on January 04, 2009, 18:39:02
Post by: Shambles on January 04, 2009, 18:46:03
Oh, forgot to mention, another little tidbit for those with Tuningbox's, do NOT reset your ECU when the box is fitted. (You'll find the ECU re-learns with the different settings, and pulls everything back to normal. IE: No matter what setting you turn to, the engine runs like stock.)
Just thought I'd share that bit of info. :cool:
Hi Thumper, do you mean, not to disconect the battery then reconect it while the tuning box is plugged in?
I'd like to know too.
Today I changed my setting back to that which I'd been using for a few months now. It's made an immediate difference to the shoddy low-down performance I was experiencing with it turned to a higher setting. Are you saying, Thumper, that if I reset my ECU right now Fergie will eventually behave as if there were no tuningbox fitted?
Post by: Thumper on January 04, 2009, 20:24:08
(If you need to disconnect the battery, for whatever reason, disconnect the Tuningbox and run the engine from cold to normal operating temp (Roughly a 10km (6mile) drive, then fit it back onto the engine)
This I have found with the MICI unit. (Not sure if those with the ECO unit will have the same issues)
Post by: Shambles on January 04, 2009, 21:45:55
Yes, correct. :cool:
(If you need to disconnect the battery, for whatever reason, disconnect the Tuningbox and run the engine from cold to normal operating temp (Roughly a 10km (6mile) drive, then fit it back onto the engine)
This I have found with the MICI unit. (Not sure if those with the ECO unit will have the same issues)
That makes good sense, thanks Thumper.
Post by: Mick on January 05, 2009, 00:55:40
I just hooked a meter to the CR Sensor output, pretty hard to get any definitive readings. Max reported voltage was 3.98V full acceleration in third gear over 4000 RPM. Most of the time in normal driving the Sensor voltage is below 2V, medium acceleration in second gear at 2000 RPM about 2.8V.
Looking at the the box outputs there isn't a huge difference between the outputs from 2.5V to 3.5V (1/4 setting difference 0.1V Max setting difference 0.2V@ 2.6V (from sensor), 1/4 setting difference 0.2V Max setting difference 0.55V @ 3.5V (from sensor).
If the output from the sensor is linear then it seems it provides from about 1000PSI to about 4000PSI difference in fuel pressure depending on the box settings.
The adjusting screw on the ECO must be set prior to power up. It does not vary the output once the unit is running, it appears it is configured as some sort of analog switch.
Post by: Alesand on January 16, 2009, 12:03:32
Do you think the tuningbox will give me the same performance as it does in a 115hp engine?
Or will it be a more moderate increase due to the lower starting power?
Post by: davet on January 16, 2009, 12:18:40
for your engine:
schreibung: Tuningboxen zum Selbsteinbau für das angegebene Fahrzeug
Die technischen Daten sind wie folgt
Werte: KW | PS | Nm | Vmax
Serie: 066 | 090 | 235 | 172
Eco Tuning: 078 | 106 | 277 | 182
MICI Tuning: 079 | 108 | 282 | 183
DIGI Tuning: 079 | 108 | 282 | 183
Post by: funkigreendog on January 20, 2009, 22:13:09
Post by: Shambles on January 20, 2009, 22:14:30
Does the tuning box need to be fitted by a pro or can it be self installed?
Around 10 mins of self-fitting, most of which is deciding where to position the box, but as my pics show, it's not too hard to choose :)
Post by: funkigreendog on January 21, 2009, 00:04:05
Post by: Mick on January 21, 2009, 02:52:57
Post by: funkigreendog on January 21, 2009, 04:09:01
Does anyone have any idea how this sort of mod is looked upon from an insurance perspective?
Post by: Shambles on January 26, 2009, 21:17:22
Does anyone have any idea how this sort of mod is looked upon from an insurance perspective?
I would personally keep it quiet.
Post by: Shambles on January 26, 2009, 22:53:51
(If you need to disconnect the battery, for whatever reason, disconnect the Tuningbox and run the engine from cold to normal operating temp (Roughly a 10km (6mile) drive, then fit it back onto the engine)
This I have found with the MICI unit. (Not sure if those with the ECO unit will have the same issues)
Right. Confirmed. I suffered my first ever stall last Saturday as the engine seemed to be "hunting" for air or fuel. Dunno what happened, although I did have the -ve disconnected from the battery for a while just before, as I had cleanwiped the engine bay.
Washed the beast Sunday and reset the ECU having left the tuningbox off. Drove to work today (42+miles) and she felt like a slug in treacle. Refitted the box before I set off back and the difference was amazing. Back to what I'd been used to. Pure zip. Lovely torque available from right down.
Post by: eye30 on January 27, 2009, 19:22:18
Back to what I'd been used to. Pure zip. Lovely torque available from right down.
Glad you got a result.
Was expecting another bulb senario.
Post by: Shambles on January 27, 2009, 19:37:57
Post by: Thumper on January 28, 2009, 09:07:20
Post by: Pip on January 28, 2009, 11:47:51
Post by: bloodnut on January 31, 2009, 03:48:40
Love the website! Have been a member for sometime now, have'nt posted before, because we only got the i30 the other day {crdi}. Must say i am pretty impressed thus far with the car, its the wifes new car. Have been watching the discussion on these tuning boxes, i am contemplating ordering one, the MICI version. Just a couple of questions, does anybody out there have the MICI unit? Are you happy with the performance & economy gains? Was it easy to install? How long did your order take to arrive from europe? Is it a worthwhile mod? Any adverse effects to fuel economy?
Thanks in advance!
Regards Bloodnut.
Post by: Dazzler on January 31, 2009, 07:49:17
Post by: Shambles on January 31, 2009, 07:59:24
Post by: bloodnut on January 31, 2009, 10:31:54
Regards Bloodnut.
Post by: eye30 on January 31, 2009, 15:21:19
Congrats on your purchase.
Feedback on the box all seems positive.
Post by: Arg on February 01, 2009, 05:30:54
I've just fitted and tested the Bosch Common Rail Tuning Box.
Fitting took 15 minutes, most of which was deciding where to mount the control unit.
I settled on fastening it to the right wing next to the battery.
The interface connects to the CR sensor at the right hand side of the rail:
Shambles, I couldn't disconnect the standard CR sensor plug.
Is it a push/press/squeeze-to-separate type, or should I just pull harder?
Arg
Post by: Mick on February 01, 2009, 08:06:58
Post by: Shambles on February 01, 2009, 11:01:47
Post by: andypand01 on April 07, 2009, 11:02:41
The extra power is great, but over 200 kms I have not yet seen an improvement in fuel economy.
Post by: Lakes on April 08, 2009, 11:09:55
i think you would have to drive easy, now i have 30,000 up and useing Caltex Vortex Premium diesel i'm very happy with how betsy goes stock, she is loveing that fuel
Post by: i30mania on April 21, 2009, 23:11:27
I want to see that position. :rolleyes:
Post by: Shambles on April 21, 2009, 23:21:53
Could anyone please picture the box inside?Do you mean the box "in situ" (as in, its final resting place?) or did you mean you want to see inside the electrickery?
I want to see that position. :rolleyes:
I posted my internal position on page 2 of this thread :) here (https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,1066.msg10333.html#msg10333)
Post by: i30mania on April 22, 2009, 01:35:41
I want to see that because i could not understand 9 o'clock position
Post by: Mick on April 22, 2009, 02:37:21
Post by: i30mania on April 22, 2009, 18:44:01
Post by: Shambles on April 22, 2009, 19:02:35
OK, I will try positioning it to the 9 o'clock
I found anything higher than the 9 o'clock position (rotated clockwise) had a seriously bad effect at motorway speeds (chugging and no real acceleration). Less than 9 o'clock position and I didn't get the boost I wanted at lower speeds and there was no instant throttle response. So, the 9 o'clock position is where I have mine (and it's where the manual says it should be by default from the factory)
Eee aww :D
Post by: i30mania on April 25, 2009, 16:29:53
its better now , thanks Shambles
(http://i39.tinypic.com/2hd9o48.jpg)
Post by: Shambles on April 25, 2009, 16:45:49
is this how its supposed to be?
That's exactly where I have mine set :)
PS... next time you take the cover off try to push that chip a bit further into it's socket
Post by: Arg on May 23, 2009, 03:16:32
Got my tunebox yesterday. Thanks to Shambles installation took less than 10mins.My average around-town economy was 6.2l/100km stock, now consistently 5.2-5.3l/100km with the box installed.
The extra power is great, but over 200 kms I have not yet seen an improvement in fuel economy.
I haven't tried it for a decent country run yet. But I am very happy with the performance and economy, both improved.
I have not changed the settings from as-delivered.
Post by: StuartB on August 15, 2009, 00:24:58
Post by: Dazzler on August 15, 2009, 05:21:40
Post by: Shambles on August 15, 2009, 10:36:19
...I am interested if anybody has used the TUNINGBOX in an 1.6 auto? Thanks in advance.Hi StuartB.
I just had a quick look at their website and there is no mention of the transmission type. Best bet would be to email them and ask; if you do can you let us know and I'll update the opening post in the topic :)
Post by: Nagaz on August 16, 2009, 07:58:02
Had a look through the thread and this looks amazing...
Just have a few questions before I jump on board and delve into the tuning box situation.
Just to confirm, this has no negative effect in fuel consumption (ie using more)?
Is this form of tuning box legal in Australia?
Will this have any effect on my Hyundai warranty?
Is it suggested that you remove it before you take it in for a service or wont they care??
Thanks again for all the great info...
Nagaz
Post by: Shambles on August 16, 2009, 10:25:32
Mine has had a +ve effect on fuel. I have the "when should it happen" dial set to occur in 1st/2nd gear so there's no lag when I zoom off from the lights. I used to get around 61mpg but now get over 63.5mpg constantly.
I suspect there is no illegailty factor but best you check with your insurance guys
As for warranty, and the final question, I have always removed the box (only takes 5 minutes or less) before taking Fergie in for her operations. Best to err on the safe side. I can tell you, once removed you soon wish for the service to be done with to be able to refit it... the closest I can describe driving without it, is like watching a slug with a broken leg crawl through treacle, backwards.
Post by: eye30 on August 16, 2009, 12:49:20
like watching a slug with a broken leg crawl through treacle, backwards.
That's a new saying on me.
Is it a manc saying?
Post by: Lakes on August 16, 2009, 20:47:36
like watching a slug with a broken leg crawl through treacle, backwards.
That's a new saying on me.
Is it a manc saying?
Hey eye your looking fit these day's mate! LOL
i think Shambles must have a torture chamber for pests LOL
Hi Nagaz, sorry for getting off topic, i'm in australia too, i was thinking about one of these tunning box's too. but over a year down the road and 40,000k+ still thinking, but i must add my car goes better now than one year ago, also seems to get good economy. but these power box's are more for performance than for economy, like Shambles just states facts, and he does get improved economy, BUT, even if Fergie started to drink a little bit more, Shambles would still keep that tuning box as his car feels so much more fun to drive with the box. i don't think Shambles cares that much about economy more about driving pleasure.
with me i'm driving in or around Sydney when i'm in lower gears and it's stop start, when i get on the open road i'm mostly in 5th gear, and my CRDi run's fine in 5th.
But after saying all this if there was a tuning box there within reach, yes i would try it!!
i would like to call my car Jenifer.
Cheers
Post by: StuartB on August 17, 2009, 18:14:04
...I am interested if anybody has used the TUNINGBOX in an 1.6 auto? Thanks in advance.Hi StuartB.
I just had a quick look at their website and there is no mention of the transmission type. Best bet would be to email them and ask; if you do can you let us know and I'll update the opening post in the topic :)
Done and got this back, which is all good;
ello,
thanks for the request. Sure it is suitable to the automatic transmission
without any known problems.
Regards
U. Saretz
BTW he is not French, it was a bad cut and paste the H fell off.
Post by: Shambles on August 17, 2009, 18:18:30
Merci for the update :)
Post by: 2i30s on September 20, 2009, 22:16:33
Post by: Shambles on September 20, 2009, 22:32:02
Post by: 2i30s on September 20, 2009, 22:39:20
Post by: lozza on October 06, 2009, 13:34:31
Will be interesting. The price variance on the units is astounding from as cheap as 87GBP to $1500aud.
Post by: StuartB on December 12, 2009, 03:07:41
Just ordered one of these from Germany. Will let you know what I think. Tried to extract info out of the many suppliers on the more techinical details of how these things work but everybody is being very cagey. I am concerned that many just ustilise a massive over pressure in the fuel rail to achieve the extra diesel added in each cycle. They would not confirm or deny this but kept stating it is achieved through changes to the timing and fuel injection rates.
Will be interesting. The price variance on the units is astounding from as cheap as 87GBP to $1500aud.
How did it go? Any update?
Post by: Waja on January 18, 2010, 11:15:34
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w274/link_1111/I30%20Forum/DSCF3998.jpg)
Post by: Shambles on January 18, 2010, 11:26:08
In other words, a quarter clockwise from off.
Post by: Waja on January 18, 2010, 12:28:29
Post by: Waja on January 20, 2010, 01:08:12
I have changed the settings on the tuning box to 0 (standard with no power increase) and the same thing happens, I did an ecu reset after taking the box off and then plugging it in after and its the same. I thought I had done something permanent to the engine and so I pulled the box out and the engine runs like normal without shutting off or anything! Does anyone know what could be the problem? I dont seem to know what to do :'(
Post by: Shambles on January 20, 2010, 08:09:27
Send Saretz an email describing the issue - they're excellent at responding in English. It could be that you have a badly calibrated unit.
Post by: R_G_B on January 30, 2010, 07:47:17
The tuning box version pictured above by link_1111 is a newer version than the one referred to by Shambles.
For a Bosch controller, as in the i30, the instructions for the new version of ECO/MICI say to adjust in the range 8-D (or narrower range 9-A for the DIGI model).
The other positions (anywhere from E-7 in the ECO/MICI model) are for other controllers (e.g. Siemens/Denso) - using them on an i30 is asking for trouble!
I have tried every position from 8-D (in an i30CW CRDi after 10,000 Km). Here are some observations:
1. The tuning box does nothing useful to reduce the biggest nuisance of the i30 CRDi - that long wait before any useful response if you ever try accelerating (especially even slightly uphill) in 2nd gear from below 1000 rpm. If you are trying to solve that problem, don't waste your money on a tuning box. Get used to changing down to 1st gear instead!
2. The i30 is already very snappy once the revs hit 1500rpm and the turbo gets to work. At higher settings, the tuning box does increase this power (on my seat-of-pants meter). But in 1st and 2nd gear the unmodified i30 power/torque is already close to the limit of grip from the standard tyres on this front-wheel drive, even on dry roads. You quickly exceed that limit with lots of tyre spinning if you push the accelerator after fitting the tuning box.
3. The amount of black smoke from the exhaust goes up with the power setting in the tuning box. You can't judge this from the driver's seat! Ask someone to look at the exhaust while you give the accelerator a push and you will get the information.
4. The engine runs harsher under acceleration at higher power settings in the tuning box. Whether this is damaging the engine, I do not know. Personally, I don't want that risk, and I would not use the device with a setting above A or B.
5. I have not noticed much difference at highway speeds, but there may be a benefit under certain conditions of speed, gradient, load, acceleration, etc that I have not tested.
5. The people at Autotechnik Saretz seem very helpful to potential customers by email, but understandably they will not detail the voltage remapping from the common rail pressure sensor to the ECU at each setting in their tuning box. Neither they nor Hyundai will take any responsibility for damage caused to your vehicle by fitting the tuning box.
6. It will take a long time with carefully-controlled comparisons to know for sure whether there is a fuel economy gain at any particular setting - many variables affect fuel consumption, including control of your right foot. More black smoke is not normally a sign of improved fuel economy (let alone environmental responsibility).
So take some of the excitement about this accessory with a grain of salt - and be careful to avoid damaging your vehicle while chasing potential benefits.
Post by: Dazzler on January 30, 2010, 12:47:35
Unlike Shambles (One of my bestest internet buddies..) I am not interested in fitting a tuning box or any other ECU modification for several reasons (in no particular order)
(a) Happy with current performance of my Manual CRDi
(b) Don't want to have issues with the motor down the track..
(c) don't want to risk voiding the warranty..
(d) Have a very strict (and cheap) insurer who would quickly drop me from their books and dishonour any claim if established such a mod..
Your comments generally appear valid..
Post by: sobocanec on January 31, 2010, 04:07:06
I was able to determined from that, that adjustment range for i30 (and some Kia models) is from 8 to D. (1 is minimum and f is max)
It applies for ECO Bosch. So far my research has led me to believe to set the switch D which is great help if I go long distance on Freeway.
Around town I am using smaller setting: 8 or 9. This has shortest turbo lag and is very easy to spin front wheels in second and very good pick up.
I have also driven in the middle range adjustment A or B.The performance is logically in the middle. Perhaps the best for urban driving or on some
country hilly roads.
I have used the box almost continually since about 5000Km ago. Once I took it off to see how the car behaves without.
At that stage I also disconnected neg. battery terminal to reset memory to the way I drive.
i30 was performing as new. It didn't take me very long to fit the box back.
I am not advocating to get one. It is intiery up to individual. I havent even done to 28000 Km. So only time will tell if any long time demage will happen.
As far as fuel economy goes, I have driven 50Km plus return trip with another person in the car using auto clime on 22, sitting on 100k/h and trip computer showed
4.4/100. That was after fresh refill. But of corse, that quickly went up driving to work and aroundn town...I have to admit that I normaly drive pretty hard.
Over 27452Km:
My average fuel consumption is 5.65
My average speed 57.5Km/h etc.
Since I use the Tuning box I haven't noticed any fuel savings.
I would realy love to read other similar post from other tuning box users
Best regards.
Post by: DaveCRDi on February 27, 2010, 15:57:31
I've been looking at the possibility of getting a tuning box for my i30, but I asked many of the questions that have come up in this thread.
From what I understand there are essentially 2 types of tuning box. One is essentially a variable resistor, which is quite crude, but can work well if you don't overdo the power increase. The other one is a digital unit that takes into consideration the rpm the engine is doing, and adjusts the fuel injection boost accordingly.
This second type seems to work better, and has less of a problem with black smoke being produced from over-fuelling.
I was concerned that the power increase would damage the engine in the long run, but after some research I found that a few of the companies offering tuning boxes have TUV certified software, and to earn this certification they have to demonstrate that the engine won't be damaged through normal use of the tuning box (though obviously turning it up to its maximum will probably reduce component life).
Several of the companies I've contacted that power and torque increases up to 140bhp and 300Nm have told me that the tuning box does not increase the boost provided by the turbo, it just lets it provide the boost earlier in the rev range.
Everyone seems to agree that 140bhp and 300Nm is a sensible safe level to tune the 1.6 115 engine to, and from what I've read the turbo used in the i30 should be fine up to 150bhp.
I accept that the drawback is you are only playing with one parameter, rather than increasing everything as a whole, but the fact that the ECU will still be able to detect exhaust gas temperature and unburnt fuel in the exhaust system and reduce the fuelling to compensate (the tuning box increases the fuelling, but a large reduction in ECU fuelling input will still decrease the fuel going to the engine) makes the system seem pretty safe as long as you run it within sensible parameters.
2 people I know have used tuning boxes, one in a Skoda Fabia VRS 1.9 Tdi, increasing power from 130bhp to around 170, and another in a Ford Focus 1.8 TDCi increasing power from 115bhp to 150.
Both have been using the units for 2-3 years, and neither have had any problems at all.
Regarding warranty issues, the simplest way to avoid problems is to remove the unit before getting any servicing or repairs under warranty.
Also, for those in the UK, there are laws regarding warranties which state that a manufacturer cannot void a warranty simply because the vehicle is modified, and they must prove that the modification caused the component failure.
I'm planning to fit a digital tuning box to my 6 speed 1.6 once I have about 6000 miles on it.
Post by: Shambles on February 27, 2010, 16:27:57
I have since removed my tuningbox as I no longer feel it's necessary for what I originally planned to use it for. At the start I wanted to reduce the poor low-end performance in 1st/2nd gears and for a while the box did that for me. Instant throttle response and the bonus of a marginal increase in economy.
A few months ago I removed it prior to a warranty repair yet the i30 still behaved as if it was fitted. Even now, after a couple of ECU resets, she still pulls like fury in 1st/2nd. I've put this phenomenum down to the mileage I've covered (39,000 miles) loosening up the diesel engine.
Cheers
Post by: DaveCRDi on February 27, 2010, 16:35:30
I've been considering the tuning box largely for more pull in 6th, although I'm wondering if that will improve as the car gets a few more miles on it, and for more low down torque as I'd like to be able to use 5th in 40mph zones and maybe 4th in 30 zones and 6th in 50 zones.
The car seems to be geared to sit at 1500 rpm in 5th at 40mph, and at the moment that's a bit of a struggle for the engine.
Post by: Shambles on February 27, 2010, 16:40:05
What was the warranty repair for?
Steering rattle and rear washer pump failure, covered in the "Issues, non-model specific" section :)
Post by: DaveCRDi on February 27, 2010, 18:41:45
I'll see how the engine loosens up once I get a few thousand miles on the clock. If it still complains with lower revs I'll get the tuning box, and if not I might not.
Post by: penak on April 09, 2010, 07:43:39
In old distributor-pump diesels it was common to increase power by adjusting the pump feed (just turn one screw...). The drawback was REALLY nasty smoke. The same is true with the modern engines, as all the "tuning boxes" can do is increasing the fuel amount injected, they will make the smoking worse.
The correct way of tuning a CRDi is ECU reprogramming, where all the engine parameters can be adjusted, fuel injection, bosst pressure, turbo guide vane angle etc. And that is the way the manufacturer does it BTW.
In europe Hyundai/KIA have at least three distinct power versions of the 1.6L CRDi:
90hp version used in i30 cheaper models. This is actually slightly different, it's VGT turbo has pneumatic vane adjuster, the more powerful versions have electromechanical adjustment.
115hp version uded bu i30 and Ceed, same as above, but with electric vane adjustment directly controlled by the ECU. Uses slightly higher boost pressure and fuel injection to get that small power increase.
I have driven both versions of i30, and in normal traffic, it is hard to sense any difference, as if there is any, it is behind that "war emergency power" notch of the accelerator pedal travel.
The third version in Finland is sold in KIA Soul, and has 128hp/260Nm. Apparently the only difference between this and 115hp version is the ECU "mapping", ie. programming of it's injection/boost/rpm table. All the spares catalog numbers of the mechanical parts in 115hp/128hp are the same.
I have a feeling that we probably will see up to 140hp versions of the same basic engine when the competition forces Hyundai to it. After that level, they have to go to double turbo to keep the behaviour of the engine civilized enough.
What the ECU remappers do is extracting that competitive headroom out of the engine ahead of manufacturer's financial needs. They are currently undetectable in normal service, and also don't increase smoke produced by the engine. The bad side is that they also charge considerably more than the "tuning box" manufacturers.
Post by: Dazzler on April 09, 2010, 12:47:32
Post by: DaveCRDi on April 09, 2010, 13:53:54
Primitive tuning boxes essentially increase the signal going to the common rail, increasing the fuel injection at any point in the rev range. As you have said, this increases the smoke the car produces, particularly at idle.
However, there are fully digital tuning boxes which adjust the increase in fuelling for the RPM the car is doing (measured by the number of signals going to the common rail injector), so at idle you get no increase in fuelling whatsoever, and you can essentially "map" it so that you get an injection curve appropriate to the car you are using it in.
The modern fully digital tuning boxes carry TUV certification too, which means they have to demonstrate that they do not damage your engine if used within normal operating parameters. For the latest ones this includes Diesel Particulate Filters (like the one fitted to the new Euro IV compliant i30's).
I prefer the tuning box option to be honest. The absolute worst case scenario is that the car would go into limp home mode, in which case you simply remove the tuning box.
Post by: SRT Metro on April 09, 2010, 16:21:18
Many, many people in Sweden use a tuningbox to their diesel cars with a turbo. Many truckdrivers also use it.
Many Hyundai dealers sell and install tuningboxes from KCR.
KCR tuningbox is the most widely used and they offer 30 day return policy if you are not 100% satisfied.
They also offer 3 years or 80000 km engine warranty by an insurance company for an extra small sum of money.
They have installed over 50000 tuning boxes and has 164 resellers in Sweden and 1095 partners in 13 countries.
They have done tuning boxes since 1997 and i never heard of anyone who has problems with their diesel engines since they installed a tuningbox from KCR.
A tuningbox from KCR is not cheap, but you get what you pay for... :) :) :)
A link to KCR Homepage:
http://www.kcr.se/render_page.asp?pageid=90 (http://www.kcr.se/render_page.asp?pageid=90)
Little info from KCR Homepage:
About KCR
KCRacing Produkter AB is a technical company located in Falköping, Sweden.
We have specialized in power increasing and fuel saving products for diesel vehicles.
We hold the sole agency and develop the best power boxes on the market.
We can offer a complete solution for all kinds of diesel vehicles.
We have several years of experience and our products are market leading in Scandinavia.
We are distributing our products via an excellent sales channel and we cooperate with skilled dealers
where you as customer can buy and get our products installed by professionals.
Our goal is to make you satisfied with our partners and us and we keep all products in stock for immediate delivery.
Give us a call or send and e-mail for further information.
We have today made over 50.000 installations.
(http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab144/SRT_Metro/logo.gif)
Post by: Dazzler on April 09, 2010, 22:43:50
Post by: SRT Metro on April 10, 2010, 08:14:43
Better torque, better combustion
The best torque are usually between 2.000 - 3.000 rpm. After installing the tuningbox the torque increases and the important change is at low rpm.
Example
The torque that a standard engine delivers at 2000 rpm, can be achieved at 1700 rpm with the tuningbox installed. This makes it possible to run the engine at lower rpm with the same torque. This reduces the consumption.
Post by: Dazzler on April 10, 2010, 08:34:24
Post by: SRT Metro on April 10, 2010, 10:39:05
But then you also have a car that feels stronger and very fun to drive. :) :) :)
Post by: DaveCRDi on April 10, 2010, 10:48:26
Another question for penak or anyone else who feels qualified to answer.. If a tuning box works mainly by increasing the injection of fuel how can Shambles and others who have used a tuning box been able to report an improvement in fuel economy?
The extra torque lets you sit in a higher gear for any given situation, as well as the overall combustion process being more efficient.
It is true though that although a tuning box will give you extra power, if you actually use all that extra power your fuel economy will drop.
Basically if you continue driving in exactly the same style as you did before you'll probably get a slight increase in fuel economy, but the extra torque lets you drive even more frugally than the engine would allow before installing the box, allowing you to get significantly better economy.
Post by: Shambles on April 10, 2010, 11:30:09
It was defo worth the money I paid for the 14 months I used it though :)
Post by: Lakes on April 12, 2010, 08:44:27
at one point i was thinking about getting one myself, but i PMed Shambles to see what or how it inmproved 5th gear pull. as that seems to be my faviorite gear 7 the gear i would have liked some increase in, but Shambles told me the truth that he felt most of his gain in the lowwer gears and 5th gear still felt same.
i could feel all the same things Shambles dewscribed in the lower gears like hunting for fuel & so on.
but strangly now that never happens i was very impressed with Betsys performance pulling 4 full size well feed aussies up hills around old girls in golf TSI, bet they were thinking that never should happen LOL but it happened.
Also we have people here quoteing HP like it's magic. but no one i have meet has every tested there quote on a dyno.
so one day i think i'll just put betsy on one see how she compares to the dyno graph Martin showed us all from his stock low k i30 diesel. but till then i'm happy .
Post by: penak on April 14, 2010, 09:23:24
Another question for penak or anyone else who feels qualified to answer.. If a tuning box works mainly by increasing the injection of fuel how can Shambles and others who have used a tuning box been able to report an improvement in fuel economy?
Withouth REALLY careful methodology, fuel consumption measurement is truly hard. Mostly placebo effect I would say.
When you install a device that is supposed to decrease fuel consumption, you usually tend to get such results. Human mind is so sensitive to suggestion. What probably happens is that the driver subconsciously drives smoother, and errors in fuel consumption measurement do the rest.
It is a simple physical truth that you cannot modify a modern diesel in a way that would result in even 1% better fuel economy. These engines operate already so close to their theoretical maximum. If such result was possible easily, the manufacturer would already have done it. Increasing power is another thing, that may happen, but engine's thermodynamical efficiency cannot be measurably enhanced.
If the box varies the torque curve, it is however borderline plausible that in certain conditions you could keep the engine closer to it's optimum rpm by being able to use larger gear than previously. But that would be valid only for a very narrow set of conditions that should not be noticeable in a normal traffic cycle.
There is a funny story from here (Finland) of how deceivable even car journalists can be. One of the local tabloid papers published a story on their car pages about a total scam product, a stainless steel bar that is simply dropped to fuel tank or attached to fuel line with cable clamps. According to the manufacturer that steel bar has been impregnated with "cosmic energy" and will change the molecular structure of the fuel to a more efficient form. In other words, full bore baloney...
The poor journalist was dumb enough to swallow that garbage, apparently hook, line, and sinker. He drove from Helsinki to Rovaniemi withouth the bar in tank, dropped the bar to the tank and drove back, and found out that he had used less fuel. The poor sod reported that as the effect of the cosmic bar in his article withouth stopping to think OTHER more plausible explanations. The scream laughter that erupted on the paper's net forum was humiliating to the reporter, to put it mildly...
BTW. I have a nagging suspicion that many of those "tuning boxes" dont actually change anything else than just the response curve of the throttle pedal. Some results here say that the box don't seem to have noticeable effect on fifth gear, which would fit to that theory.
The boxes even having TUV approval also indirectly point to that direction. TUV approval does not evaluate the truthness of manufacturers power increase or economy claims, it just guarantees that the accessory is not dangerous in traffic, which fits a do-nothing-box marvelously.
Many shady firms use TUV approval as validators of their products in their marketing, when in real life the approval only says "This is not dangerous to be used in traffic".
It is a bit like using manufacturers ISO 9000 certification as an indicator of consumer product quality. A company that makes solid cast iron life buoys can have ISO 9000 certification...
Post by: Pip on April 14, 2010, 10:14:35
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Too many sceptics in this world.
Post by: Dazzler on April 14, 2010, 11:33:14
The actual reason some of these things might work could be considered irrelevent! Results are more important. If they do save fuel or do improve the driving experience, then that's proof positive... surely?
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Too many sceptics in this world.
Who me a sceptic :eek: Just encouraging healthy discussion actually (Chipping and tuning boxes aren't really my bag)
Post by: penak on April 14, 2010, 11:46:49
The actual reason some of these things might work could be considered irrelevent! Results are more important. If they do save fuel or do improve the driving experience, then that's proof positive... surely?
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Too many sceptics in this world.
I don't get into the driving experience, but proving fuel savings is hard, could only be done on a closed circuit, driving statistically meaningful number of laps, and keeping exactly same lap times etc. etc.
Trying to notice the minuscule (+-1%) consumption differences in normal traffic is impossible.
IMHO too few sceptics in the world...
Post by: Pip on April 14, 2010, 13:15:55
IMHO too few sceptics in the world...
True :wink: :lol:
Post by: eyecon on June 27, 2010, 13:15:43
Post by: Dazzler on June 27, 2010, 13:41:11
Yes I know there are purists out there, but at the end of the day the word 'warranty' wins all the time.
Hi M8 .. unfortunately the words Insurance Company spooks me too.. I would hate to have a big prang and the insurance Assessor picked up I had a Tuning box fitted or an ECU upgrade (It's o/k Allianz I don't have either... :D)
They didn't even like my sports exhaust ..since removed :rolleyes:
Post by: eyecon on June 27, 2010, 14:03:15
Post by: Dazzler on June 27, 2010, 22:51:19
Bloody insurance companies. Although I have noticed insurance companies in Europe seem to accept this technology. By the way what's this I hear your selling your car mate. Whats going on here?
At the risk of going off topic .. as much as I love my CRDi I'm looking for something with more room and a bit more luxury (and less road noise) i45 is the hot favourite after much research and a little bit of test driving... :wink:
Post by: andrejs on June 28, 2010, 07:52:54
The actual reason some of these things might work could be considered irrelevent! Results are more important. If they do save fuel or do improve the driving experience, then that's proof positive... surely?
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Too many sceptics in this world.
I don't get into the driving experience, but proving fuel savings is hard, could only be done on a closed circuit, driving statistically meaningful number of laps, and keeping exactly same lap times etc. etc.
Trying to notice the minuscule (+-1%) consumption differences in normal traffic is impossible.
IMHO too few sceptics in the world...
well actually it does not how to be the closed track, but one trip that you constantly make ... and few times i did make different driving styles before chip from Zagreb to Sarajevo (410 km) ... and when i chip tuned my car also the same.. and i can say its 1 l less with chip then without for the same trip :) (and i go once a month Zagreb - Sarajevo)