i30 Owners Club
THE GARAGE (SERVICE, MAINTENANCE & REPAIR) => PETROL => Topic started by: trev012 on March 21, 2013, 08:41:14
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Just had my third annual service and 1st MOT yesterday for my 1.6 petrol engine which went fine. All in all, I was happy with the price of £180.
However, before I put it in to the garage, I gave them a list of 3 faults/problems/concerns to look at. One of them was advising that my brakes had been seizing and when driving away next day they were making a grating noise. They freed up and greased said brakes and then came back with the shocker :Shocked:. It required to have new discs and pads at the rear. This after only 26880 miles. Now, I am no boy racer and am very light with my brake foot but find this to be extremely low milage to require new discs. My previous car [Diesel Vauxhall] needed new discs at 58500 miles. [Same driving conditions and same roads]
Furthermore, the price they are quoting is £318 :whistler: for the rear only!
Tha car has only done 7500 since last service and the brakes were fine then. The garage said it must have been due to brake dust and winter conditions but this has been the mildest winter we've had for a few years. My issue is the low milage travelled and the fact they had to free and grease them would indicate a problem somewhere. The garage denied this.
Can anyone advise if this milage is about right for an i30 or/and is it just inferior meterials Hyundai use in comparison to other makes?
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Trev, they don't use inferior materials in Hyundais ... and we have members on here that have got huge mileage out of the pads. (Replacement of the discs has been barely discussed on here (that is so rare)
So.. something is not right, I would be asking for a 2nd opinion :fum:
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Brakes are seldom a problem.
I sold my 2009 diesel with over 136,000 kms and the brakes hadn't been touched and were still good.
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While we're busy making Trev feel better :lol: may I add that my brakes got 100% green light at my 95,000 mile service - pads and rotors :D
That said, the report on my RAV4 was along the same lines as reported - in that one of the front calipers must have been grabbing as the rotor was now below minimum thickness and it had taken the pads along with it.
Trev, you might just have to take the hit on it, though I'd do the rotor and pad replacement myself. Should be able to get a set of pads and disks for half what you've been quoted.
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Hi Guys,
Many thanks for your replies and just exactly as I thought. I am taking the car to a small independent garage this afternoon to have them take a look. Could the discs be damaged and need replacing because they had seized [Especially after washing the car] ?
Trying to get the franchased Hyundai garage to change their mind will be like getting blood out of a stone though :head_butt:
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The seized pads are likely to have caused uneven wear on the pads themselves, and given you've heard a grinding noise, you could actually have a metal on metal contact, where the metal shoe the pad sits on has actually been grinding against the disc (as all the pad has worn off). Sometimes it is possible to machine the disc flat again, and simply replace pads & fix the faulty parts in the brake, in some instances, you have to replace the whole disc (could be a good opportunity for some slotted/vented discs ;)). Somewhat like Shambles has mentioned - calipers grabbing unevenly due to seized component, pad wears out in one spot, pretty soon the only thing grabbing the disc is bare metal.
If you haven't already had the repair done, I would ask them to show you the issue, or if the repair has already been done, I'd suggest for future brake work, have them show you the replaced pads and parts. I've found a lot of really good independent mechanics will have no problem doing this, and some will do it anyway.
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If they've been grabbing then the calipers almost certainly need overhauling, else you'll be up for another set of pads/rotors before long.
Also, if you do decide to do them yourself, I'm pretty sure you need a special tool to wind the pistons back into the caliper so the new pads will fit. There has been some discussion on here about this.
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trev something definately not right there,I have done well over that milage in both of ours now,did a wheel rotation on Cyril yesterday,while I was under there I checked everything over rotors where still clean and unmarked(other than what I would consider normal wear)pads still looked almost new,back ones especially,again something sounds off
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I'm showing my ignorance here - but does the handbrake operate onto the rear disc.
Hence is there a possibility that the handbrake has not been releasing?
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I think the handbrake is the "shoe" type, operating within the wheel hub.
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Well, I went to an independent garage this afternoon and after inspection was told the brakes are fine. The front were only about 25% worn and the rears had at least another 25k still on them. I AM TOTALLY CONFUSED and reluctant to trust anybody now.
I then phoned my Hyundai garage that carried out the service and spoke with the service manager who told me the same thing that it has been caused by brake dust and winter conditions. When I mentioned that the car had been serviced since new by them and nothing untoward was raised at the 2nd service a year ago, and ONLY 7750 miles later, they sat up a bit. Furthermore, I also told them I had been on various Hyundai websites [This in particular] and nobody had experienced the same problem at such a low mileage. The service manager then said the only thing they could/would do was to contact Hyundai Customer Services [Head Office] tomorrow and see if they could/would do anything as a goodwill gesture.
I won't hold my breath but will let you know how I get on tomorrow.
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I think the handbrake is the "shoe" type, operating within the wheel hub.
It is.. :cool:
If they've been grabbing then the calipers almost certainly need overhauling, else you'll be up for another set of pads/rotors before long.
Also, if you do decide to do them yourself, I'm pretty sure you need a special tool to wind the pistons back into the caliper so the new pads will fit. There has been some discussion on here about this.
No special tool required. I changed the rear pads on mine last year, IIRC I just pressed the piston back.
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If they've been grabbing then the calipers almost certainly need overhauling, else you'll be up for another set of pads/rotors before long.
Also, if you do decide to do them yourself, I'm pretty sure you need a special tool to wind the pistons back into the caliper so the new pads will fit. There has been some discussion on here about this.
No special tool required. I changed the rear pads on mine last year, IIRC I just pressed the piston back.
Thanks Asterisk. My memory must be playing tricks. :-[
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Well, I went to an independent garage this afternoon and after inspection was told the brakes are fine. The front were only about 25% worn and the rears had at least another 25k still on them. I AM TOTALLY CONFUSED and reluctant to trust anybody now.
I then phoned my Hyundai garage that carried out the service and spoke with the service manager who told me the same thing that it has been caused by brake dust and winter conditions. When I mentioned that the car had been serviced since new by them and nothing untoward was raised at the 2nd service a year ago, and ONLY 7750 miles later, they sat up a bit. Furthermore, I also told them I had been on various Hyundai websites [This in particular] and nobody had experienced the same problem at such a low mileage. The service manager then said the only thing they could/would do was to contact Hyundai Customer Services [Head Office] tomorrow and see if they could/would do anything as a goodwill gesture.
I won't hold my breath but will let you know how I get on tomorrow.
Personally when it comes to things like that, I generally trust the opinion of the bloke who can charge you money but doesn't. :cool:
If your local auto club has inspections, it may be worth getting them to have a look to confirm if there is an issue, and if there is give an expert opinion on how it occurred and if it is a warranty issue.
If they say it is a warranty issue, hit Hyundai up for the cost of the inspection...
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:whsaid:
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If they've been grabbing then the calipers almost certainly need overhauling, else you'll be up for another set of pads/rotors before long.
Also, if you do decide to do them yourself, I'm pretty sure you need a special tool to wind the pistons back into the caliper so the new pads will fit. There has been some discussion on here about this.
No special tool required. I changed the rear pads on mine last year, IIRC I just pressed the piston back.
Thanks Asterisk. My memory must be playing tricks. :-[
Surferdude there is a special tool to do that job,I have one but also as asterix says,you don't really need one if your switched on,that's why I own one :rofl:
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I'm surprised that the Hyundai dealer isn't simply offering to replace the brakes under warranty, what excuse did they give for that eh? Brake pads are consumables, yes, but discs after so few miles, surely not. ??
Plus your independent garage saying they are okay?
Maybe try another Hyundai dealer if possible. I'll be interested to see how this turns out.
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If they've been grabbing then the calipers almost certainly need overhauling, else you'll be up for another set of pads/rotors before long.
Also, if you do decide to do them yourself, I'm pretty sure you need a special tool to wind the pistons back into the caliper so the new pads will fit. There has been some discussion on here about this.
No special tool required. I changed the rear pads on mine last year, IIRC I just pressed the piston back.
Thanks Asterisk. My memory must be playing tricks. :-[
Surferdude there is a special tool to do that job,I have one but also as asterix says,you don't really need one if your switched on,that's why I own one :rofl:
I haven't replaced any rear pads on an i30 yet but I had in my mind that they needed to be wound back in not pushed staight back. I read somewhere about an adapter for the special tool which is used on many cars. I've done them on cars like that but used a large, broad bladed screwdriver.
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...I read somewhere about an adapter for the special tool which is used on many cars...
Yep
https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=8891.msg104594#msg104594 (https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=8891.msg104594#msg104594)
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but the thread doesn't actually state you DO NEED a piston wind back tool it only shows you how too use one. :winker: Asterix has answered our question about needing one,or should i say NOT needing one. :goodjob2: :goodjob:
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"I'm surprised that the Hyundai dealer isn't simply offering to replace the brakes under warranty, what excuse did they give for that eh? Brake pads are consumables, yes, but discs after so few miles, surely not. ??"
This is precisely my arguement. I could maybe have accepted it if it was just pads that were required but I agree the discs should not have gone at such a low mileage. All my dealer would say was "It was caused by brake dust" ??? What brake dust I said - I've only done 7800 miles since last service and they were ok then. Explain that Mr Hyundai. As a side issue, I managed to get over 24k out of my front tyres and am still on the originals on the rear. Now if I had been driving like a boy racer to damage the brakes, surely this would have shown up on the front tyres and I would have had to replace them a long time ago?
When things like this happen, you tend to lose faith in the franchised garage and I'm afraid that's what's happened with me. I'll await Hyundai's response but if I don't get at least 50% off then I'll need to think my next move seriously.
If it can happen once, it can happen again .................
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I've done some brake replacements in the past so I'll tell you what I did.
- Kmart in Oz used to sell a brake caliper tool which act like a reverse vice on the piston in the brake caliper, but they've reduced their auto section to the point of ridiculousness so don't bother trying to find one there.
- It is best to use a tool like this, as it applies pressure evenly on the piston and minimises the chances of air getting into the system. The piston can only be returned into the caliper by slightly opening the bleed valve and you can expect some brake fluid to dribble out as the piston is wound into the caliper. The bleed valve needs to be closed while pressure is applied to the piston otherwise air can enter and that is bad, creates spongy brakes.
- Note, the fluid level in the brake master cylinder naturally drops as the brake linings wear, always check this regularly.
Regarding this particular car, I wonder why there hasn't been some evidence of trouble. I would expect the rotors to be heat affected, burnt steel colour (blue). After a decent drive, place a hand on each wheel and feel for excessive heat, should never be anything more than slightly warm.
I can't understand why there is doubt about the remaining life of the pads. They have a new measurement of thickness and an old or replacement thickness, so your pads are either new or old, which is it.
One of our cars is at 60k kms and no mention of any pad replacements yet, so yours are definitely abnormal, if the dealer is correct.
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Hi Phil,
"Regarding this particular car, I wonder why there hasn't been some evidence of trouble." Exactly my thoughts. I have asked the dealer why there has been no mention or advice at each of the 2 previous services and they can offer me nothing in return. If there had been a problem in the past, I'm sure if they had done their job properly it would have been picked up. I SIMPLY DON'T UNDERSTAND IT.
Sadly, I am not mechanically minded like some of the posts from others on here so I'm afraid I am having to rely on the garage to resolve the issue.
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The disc pads when new are like the soles of your shoes, nice and thick and even, the pads should have probably about 8mm (guess) of brake material bonded to a steel backing plate, I'd be asking them to slip a wheel off and actually measure the remaining thickness.
Here is a pic of typical brake pads, note the steel backing plate and the thick smaller braking material, this is what wears away and at a set thickness, needs to be replaced.
(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m572/847563/I30%20Pics/GoogleImageResultforhttpbrickpartsalleycomelements2brake-pads_zps693e2509.jpg)
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A few points in response to the above excellent posts.
Brake dust CANNOT contribute to wear on the disc rotors. It also can't add to the wear on pads. Simply, because the brakes are out in the air stream, any brake dust immediately blows away. Old Drum brakes had this problem because the dust collected inside the drum and needed to be cleared out occasionally by removing the drum.
The best (IMHO) gauge for whether or not pads need replacing in once the pad thickness is less than that of the backing plate. Below this level, heat dissipation can be seriously affected, resulting in overheating brakes. which will get progressively worse as the pad material gets thinner.
All rotors carry a stamp which should show their minimum allowable thickness and this is measured using a micrometer or a good set of vernier calipers. Again, operating below this thickness contributes to unwanted heat buildup and probable brake fade, not to mention heat spots on the rotors which will cause a pulsating pedal.
Also, I shouold reiterate, if there has been excessive wear, it is most likely due to calipers binding (not releasing properly after you take your foot off the brake). However, this is something which would be much more prevalent in the front brakes rather than the rears which don't do a lot of hard work.
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...I read somewhere about an adapter for the special tool which is used on many cars...
Yep
https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=8891.msg104594#msg104594 (https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=8891.msg104594#msg104594)
Yep that would be the tool
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A few points in response to the above excellent posts.
Brake dust CANNOT contribute to wear on the disc rotors. It also can't add to the wear on pads. Simply, because the brakes are out in the air stream, any brake dust immediately blows away. Old Drum brakes had this problem because the dust collected inside the drum and needed to be cleared out occasionally by removing the drum.
The best (IMHO) gauge for whether or not pads need replacing in once the pad thickness is less than that of the backing plate. Below this level, heat dissipation can be seriously affected, resulting in overheating brakes. which will get progressively worse as the pad material gets thinner.
All rotors carry a stamp which should show their minimum allowable thickness and this is measured using a micrometer or a good set of vernier calipers. Again, operating below this thickness contributes to unwanted heat buildup and probable brake fade, not to mention heat spots on the rotors which will cause a pulsating pedal.
Also, I shouold reiterate, if there has been excessive wear, it is most likely due to calipers binding (not releasing properly after you take your foot off the brake). However, this is something which would be much more prevalent in the front brakes rather than the rears which don't do a lot of hard work.
Trev, I agree with your post, except the last part.
As the rear brakes are used very little, that will actually cause especially the rear callipers, to get stock. It could be a symptom as Trev012 stated somewhere that he allways drives very gentle.
Allways braking gentle is very bad for rear brakes, when they are disc brakes.
When I worked at the dealer, we sometimes had to replace rear discs and pads because the owner allways used the brakes very gentle. The discs would rust and the callipers got stock which caused one or more pads to wear out very fast.
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I've done some brake replacements in the past so I'll tell you what I did.
- Kmart in Oz used to sell a brake caliper tool which act like a reverse vice on the piston in the brake caliper, but they've reduced their auto section to the point of ridiculousness so don't bother trying to find one there.
- It is best to use a tool like this, as it applies pressure evenly on the piston and minimises the chances of air getting into the system. The piston can only be returned into the caliper by slightly opening the bleed valve and you can expect some brake fluid to dribble out as the piston is wound into the caliper. The bleed valve needs to be closed while pressure is applied to the piston otherwise air can enter and that is bad, creates spongy brakes.
- Note, the fluid level in the brake master cylinder naturally drops as the brake linings wear, always check this regularly.
Regarding this particular car, I wonder why there hasn't been some evidence of trouble. I would expect the rotors to be heat affected, burnt steel colour (blue). After a decent drive, place a hand on each wheel and feel for excessive heat, should never be anything more than slightly warm.
I can't understand why there is doubt about the remaining life of the pads. They have a new measurement of thickness and an old or replacement thickness, so your pads are either new or old, which is it.
One of our cars is at 60k kms and no mention of any pad replacements yet, so yours are definitely abnormal, if the dealer is correct.
Phil, I agree with most of your post.
But, you don't need to open the airbleed screw to push/turn back the piston. I've never done that.
But I will admit that it will propably make the job easier, but not opening it, saves you the mess with the brake fluid. :mrgreen:
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but the thread doesn't actually state you DO NEED a piston wind back tool it only shows you how too use one. :winker: Asterix has answered our question about needing one,or should i say NOT needing one. :goodjob2: :goodjob:
As there's no handbrake mechanism build into the rear callipers like in many other cars, i think this is the reason for not needing to turn/wind the piston back on the i30.
You never need to wind it back in a front brake calliper.
I allways use a polygrip to press back the pistons.
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Phil, I agree with most of your post.
But, you don't need to open the airbleed screw to push/turn back the piston. I've never done that.
But I will admit that it will propably make the job easier, but not opening it, saves you the mess with the brake fluid. :mrgreen:
Asterix is quite correct, you don't need to open the bleed valve, however, if you don't the fluid level in the master cylinder will rise as the pistons are retracted, so check frequently to avoid an overflow. This can happen if the fluid has been topped up as the brakes have worn down. The fluid will rise for each piston that is retracted on each wheel. Brake fluid is extremely corrosive to paint, so avoid an overflow at all costs. I prefer to dribble some out on a rag at the caliper, it's not very much and not have to worry about overflows in the engine bay at all.
I have pushed pistons pack with many types of devices, so a special tool is certainly not required, but makes the job a lot easier if you have access to one.
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but the thread doesn't actually state you DO NEED a piston wind back tool it only shows you how too use one. :winker: Asterix has answered our question about needing one,or should i say NOT needing one. :goodjob2: :goodjob:
As there's no handbrake mechanism build into the rear callipers like in many other cars, i think this is the reason for not needing to turn/wind the piston back on the i30.
You never need to wind it back in a front brake calliper.
I allways use a polygrip to press back the pistons.
What is a polygrip? - over here it is a fixative to hold false teeth in position :Dunno:
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I used a G clamp when I did the brakes on my bike and old Barina...
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Trev....Hang in there and stand firm.... :goodjob2: something isn't right.... I think you will find that Hy will comne to some arrngement... if you persist....
Will follow with interest...
We have 84 K on ours and never has there been any mention of brakes or wear etc in any service ( all by independent garages, not dealers)
Cheers
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Asterisk, you could be right about the rear calipers sticking under those (light braking) circumstances. But less of an issue over here where they don't need to put anything on the roads to dissolve the snow. And your point could well be relevant as I seem to have forgotten that Trev (not me) is in Scotland.
Phil, you beat me to it regarding the overflow from the master cylinder. Good point.
At the end of the day though, the brakes should be bled after replacing pads and opening the bleed screw when pushing back the caliper is just the first part of getting rid of the fluid which has been nearest the heat of the brakes for the last couple of years.
You should flush the system as per the owners' handbook guidelines. And if you think the sytem is sealed so shouldn't be contaminated, poke your finger into a the reservoir and wipe it along the bottom of the bowl. In almost all cars with a few tens of thousands of klms on them and no fluid flush, you'll come up with a scarily dirty finger. So the reservoir needs to be cleaned BEFORE you flush the system or you'll end up with gunk lodged in the seals of the calipers.
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Hi Everyone,
Friday came and went and I never received any phone call from my Hy dealer :disapp:. I guess they were either too busy or thought I might just forget all about it :D Well, not a chance. I'll be on the phone to them 1st thing on Monday morning.
I appreciate all the posts and comments from everyone on here and I am going to persue it with Hy [UK] even if my dealer is unable to as I firmly believe there must be something wrong. I'm pushing for the fix under warranty.
I don't wish to be ungrateful here but am totally at a loss when all you DIY experts talk about pistons and what tools to use. I find it very interesting and wish I had both your confidence and expertise to carry out the job myself but sadly it's a dealer job for me.
Keep up the good work and I'll post back when I hear from Hy.
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Hi Everyone,
Friday came and went and I never received any phone call from my Hy dealer :disapp:. I guess they were either too busy or thought I might just forget all about it :D Well, not a chance. I'll be on the phone to them 1st thing on Monday morning.
I appreciate all the posts and comments from everyone on here and I am going to persue it with Hy [UK] even if my dealer is unable to as I firmly believe there must be something wrong. I'm pushing for the fix under warranty.
I don't wish to be ungrateful here but am totally at a loss when all you DIY experts talk about pistons and what tools to use. I find it very interesting and wish I had both your confidence and expertise to carry out the job myself but sadly it's a dealer job for me.
Keep up the good work and I'll post back when I hear from Hy.
I relate totally.
I'm a non-DIY type person too. :goodjob:
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Hi Everyone,
Friday came and went and I never received any phone call from my Hy dealer :disapp:. I guess they were either too busy or thought I might just forget all about it :D Well, not a chance. I'll be on the phone to them 1st thing on Monday morning.
I appreciate all the posts and comments from everyone on here and I am going to persue it with Hy [UK] even if my dealer is unable to as I firmly believe there must be something wrong. I'm pushing for the fix under warranty.
I don't wish to be ungrateful here but am totally at a loss when all you DIY experts talk about pistons and what tools to use. I find it very interesting and wish I had both your confidence and expertise to carry out the job myself but sadly it's a dealer job for me.
Keep up the good work and I'll post back when I hear from Hy.
Always remember we are here to help if possible. Don't worry about not being mechanically minded. I'll bet you have talents that I don't posses.
Do you have a friend with mechanical knowledge who could assist you, as I find that talking with the service department and discussing problems at an equal level of understanding stops them from telling "trash" and hoping you will accept it. The people I deal with know better than to do that with me, as I've asked questions that even they can't answer. Glad to hear you're not going to give in easily, good luck. :goodjob2:
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Hi Everyone,
Friday came and went and I never received any phone call from my Hy dealer :disapp:. I guess they were either too busy or thought I might just forget all about it :D Well, not a chance. I'll be on the phone to them 1st thing on Monday morning.
I appreciate all the posts and comments from everyone on here and I am going to persue it with Hy [UK] even if my dealer is unable to as I firmly believe there must be something wrong. I'm pushing for the fix under warranty.
I don't wish to be ungrateful here but am totally at a loss when all you DIY experts talk about pistons and what tools to use. I find it very interesting and wish I had both your confidence and expertise to carry out the job myself but sadly it's a dealer job for me.
Keep up the good work and I'll post back when I hear from Hy.
I relate totally.
I'm a non-DIY type person too. :goodjob:
Dave you have to be pulling our legs surely,all those cars and not DYI.
Trev don't sweat it not being DYI,as others have said we are here to try and assist in any way we can,there many things I can't do either where I need a lot of help from others,computers for a start.
If you don't get statisfaction by going to either the dealer or HY UK,do you have a consumer onsbudsman,or consumer affairs over that way,informing non co-operative suppliers with these PPL over here tends to work a treat when all else fails
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No, actually, I'm really not.
If something needs doing above cleaning & detailing or something really simple, it gets out-sourced by me. :)
Having said that, I'm quite good at diagnosing problems and knowing what is wrong with a car, just not at fixing it.
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...all those cars and not DYI.
If that means "Do Yourself In" then yes, he does that :P
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No, actually, I'm really not.
If something needs doing above cleaning & detailing or something really simple, it gets out-sourced by me. :)
Having said that, I'm quite good at diagnosing problems and knowing what is wrong with a car, just not at fixing it.
Dave Your 60% the way there diagnosing the problem is the hard part,I have come across many many PPL who tend to guess,the rest is knowing how to swing the spanner,being methodical,logical and thourough,mind you I hate doing transmission work,still haven't fixed the ol wagon yet.
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No, actually, I'm really not.
If something needs doing above cleaning & detailing or something really simple, it gets out-sourced by me. :)
Having said that, I'm quite good at diagnosing problems and knowing what is wrong with a car, just not at fixing it.
Dave Your 60% the way there diagnosing the problem is the hard part,I have come across many many PPL who tend to guess,the rest is knowing how to swing the spanner,being methodical,logical and thourough,mind you I hate doing transmission work,still haven't fixed the ol wagon yet.
Some people are hands on, some people aren't.
I'm not.
But having driven cars of all types, including high performance cars, for as many years as I care to remember, I do generally have a pretty good idea what noises are and what is wrong with a car.
But that doesn't mean I'm competent to fix it. I know my limitations. :)
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Some people are hands on, some people aren't.
I always work on the idea that if I don't understand something I learn it by reading up on it but if it has bolts or screws on it I just pull it apart.
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"Always remember we are here to help if possible. Don't worry about not being mechanically minded. I'll bet you have talents that I don't posses."
Well, I'm pretty good at putting the cat out at 1 in the morning when it's snowing and going back to bed with a clear conscience :lol: :lol:
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"I always work on the idea that if I don't understand something I learn it by reading up on it but if it has bolts or screws on it I just pull it apart."
Maybe Pip........... But it's brakes we're talking about here. Not too sure if the wife's life insurance is up to date :whistler:
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What is a polygrip? - over here it is a fixative to hold false teeth in position :Dunno:
(http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t370/Rasnik-1/Polygriptang_zps0fa497ab.gif)
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Hi Everyone,
Friday came and went and I never received any phone call from my Hy dealer :disapp:. I guess they were either too busy or thought I might just forget all about it :D Well, not a chance. I'll be on the phone to them 1st thing on Monday morning.
I appreciate all the posts and comments from everyone on here and I am going to persue it with Hy [UK] even if my dealer is unable to as I firmly believe there must be something wrong. I'm pushing for the fix under warranty.
I don't wish to be ungrateful here but am totally at a loss when all you DIY experts talk about pistons and what tools to use. I find it very interesting and wish I had both your confidence and expertise to carry out the job myself but sadly it's a dealer job for me.
Keep up the good work and I'll post back when I hear from Hy.
Hi Trev
Correct me if wrong, but isn't this the dealer who told you that "dust from the discbrakes caused the excess wear"
If so, I would never trust them again. As Trev (Surferdude) said, that's a load of bullsh1t.
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Hi Asterix,
"Correct me if wrong, but isn't this the dealer who told you that "dust from the discbrakes caused the excess wear"
Yep - Thats my main franchised Hyundai dealer that I bought the car from and had serviced by them for the past 3 years. Doesn't really inspire confidence, does it ????
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Hi Asterix,
"Correct me if wrong, but isn't this the dealer who told you that "dust from the discbrakes caused the excess wear"
Yep - Thats my main franchised Hyundai dealer that I bought the car from and had serviced by them for the past 3 years. Doesn't really inspire confidence, does it ????
Trev012
Tip:
Rather than type/copy/past then highlight in red use the quote button just to the top right of the post you wish o quote.
You can also edit it if you wish
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What is a polygrip? - over here it is a fixative to hold false teeth in position :Dunno:
(http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t370/Rasnik-1/Polygriptang_zps0fa497ab.gif)
They're "multigrips".
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I've always called them plumber's pliers. I have a pair in my toolbox and I mainly use them for plumbing. :)
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What is a polygrip? - over here it is a fixative to hold false teeth in position :Dunno:
(http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t370/Rasnik-1/Polygriptang_zps0fa497ab.gif)
They're "multigrips".
Multi/poly... isn't it the same.. :question:
From http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/poly- (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/poly-)
poly-
comb. form meaning "many, much," from Gk
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I've always called them plumber's pliers. I have a pair in my toolbox and I mainly use them for plumbing. :)
This is what we call a plumbers plier:
(http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t370/Rasnik-1/Roertang_zps1320a4e9.jpg)
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What is a polygrip? - over here it is a fixative to hold false teeth in position :Dunno:
(http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t370/Rasnik-1/Polygriptang_zps0fa497ab.gif)
They're "multigrips".
Multi/poly... isn't it the same.. :question:
From http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/poly- (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/poly-)
poly-
comb. form meaning "many, much," from Gk
Agreed. It's just that in Oz, they seem to have always been called "multigrips" At least by people I've known over the years.
To me "poly" relates to a type of plastic. Just another example of useage in different parts of the world. :goodjob2:
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"Poly", over here, is a common name for a parrot :P
(or someone who puts kettles on)
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"Poly", over here, is a common name for a parrot :P
(or someone who puts kettles on)
So, you have plastic birds? :disapp:
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Just as well we're not all working in the same garage, imagine, "Can someone hand me the poly, multigrips, plumbers pliers, please." :rofl:
BTW they're multigrips to me. :mrgreen:
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BTW they're multigrips to me. :mrgreen:
And me.... :D
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Then you have "Vise" grips.
And "shifting spanners"
With one of each there's no need for a range of different sized spanners. :whistler:
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And "shifting spanners"
Commonly called "Shifters" :)
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Some people are hands on, some people aren't.
I always work on the idea that if I don't understand something I learn it by reading up on it but if it has bolts or screws on it I just pull it apart.
Have to say I have to understand how something works,tearing it down is a good start LOL
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Well All,
I phoned my franchised HY dealer this afternoon and spoke with the service manager. She had spoken with Customer Care at Hy [UK] and they won't budge - It's down to wear & tear.
However, "As a gesture of goodwill" [God how I hate that expression] HY [UK] would give £50 towards the bill and my local dealer would give another £50 as I've been such a good customer. Great, I'm so grateful to them both.......... NOT :disapp: This still means I have a bill of £160 to find and who says it won't happen again in the future.
So now I find myself between a rock and a hard place and am giving it serious consideration to get shot of the car once and for all. I really dont think my dealer and Hy [UK] have played ball fairly.
I am phoning HY [UK] myself tomorrow to see if they will improve their offer. I don't want to appear greedy but just feel their offer is an absolute insult.
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Surely, you have a consumer advocate service over there. It's time to get them involved I think. :fum:
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Hi Trev - you are not alone. I took my i30 1.6 petrol with 25000 miles on the clock into my H dealer here in Scotland last week with similar result - replace discs and pads for £286 because discs are heavily lipped. Followed up with a scary text. I'm waiting for the snow to go before carrying out an inspection myself and then off to a different Hyundai dealer. I have noticed the discs readily rust in wet weather and wonder if there's a duff batch of discs been fitted.... My previous car, a big C5 had the lip removed on its discs at about 60000 miles with the discs replaced 20000 miles later. I've not changed my driving style so feel there is something sub-standard that a warranty should address. Good Luck. John
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I'm with Phil,time to get a consumer advocate invovled,Trev from what you have diiscribed and the low milage for back brakes especially,the wear sounds excessive to me,maybe front brakes and if your a bad driver this type of wear could be possible,hope you get it sorted
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I have noticed the discs readily rust in wet weather
Had that with my 57 plate.
Not as noticable with the 12 plate
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Hi All,
Please find below my response from Hy [UK] to the brake problem. Sadly, not much satisfaction ......
Dear Mr Clements
Thank you for your email addressed to Mr Tony Whitehorn, President and Chief Executive of Hyundai Motor UK Ltd. As the Manager of Hyundai Customer Services Department for the UK, Mr Whitehorn has requested that I respond on his behalf.
I am truly sorry for the issues you have experienced with your brakes and I have therefore contacted John Fyfe, Service Manager, at Phoenix Hyundai.
I have been advised that when the brakes on your vehicle were examined the brake pads and discs were found to be worn due to the callipers sticking.
All technicians working in our network of dealerships are highly trained and experienced, repairing and servicing Hyundai vehicles on a daily basis. In light of this, I am confident in his dealer’s decision that the brake’s condition on your vehicle was not due to a manufacturing defect.
I can only assure you that had the dealership felt the brakes were defective in any way then this matter would have been addressed by the terms of your Hyundai warranty. The Hyundai warranty is very extensive and is one of the best in the UK. However, as with all manufacturers, we do not cover wear and tear items under the terms of this warranty. This is outlined in your Aftersales Warranty and Service booklet. I appreciate your frustration however we are not able to cover items such as the brakes as they wear differently based on the drivers use, driving style, location and conditions, which are outside of our control. It is also worth noting that a manufacturing fault on wearable items, such as clutch and brakes, normally occurs sooner than two years.
I understand your comments regarding the wear on your brakes occurring from service to failure and hence I was happy to note that both Phoenix Hyundai and Nicola had both offered a gesture of goodwill of £100 total discount towards the repair required.
John also advised that you are booked into have the worked carried out on 19/4/2013, you may choose to keep the parts that are replaced on your car with a view to have them inspected by an independent body such as RAC or AA at your own expense. If such an inspection proves that the part is defective in any way we will be happy to re-investigate this matter further subject to receiving a report.
I do appreciate that you may be disappointed with this response, but trust I have clarified our position with regard to this matter and as to why the clutch repair was not covered under the terms of your Hyundai warranty.
Thank you for taking the time to contact Hyundai Customer Services and giving me an opportunity to investigate and respond.
Yours sincerely
Carole Campbell
Customer Service Manager
Hyundai Motors UK
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Hmm.
At least they have offered you the parts for an independent inspection I guess.
What are your thoughts on it?
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Did the brake repair turn in to a clutch repair, or is that your typo error, trev012.
"I do appreciate that you may be disappointed with this response, but trust I have clarified our position with regard to this matter and as to why the clutch repair was not covered under the terms of your Hyundai warranty."
IMO, they state that the excessive wear is caused by the calipers sticking. Can calipers sticking be caused by driving technique?
I think an independent assessment is in order if you know that your driving technique is not the cause.
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:wts:
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sticking calipers to me is a manufacturers fault in my book,if the car was twenty years old and never had any regular maintainance,I can understand them sticking,my service records say full brake inspection then OK to me that says that the pads are still servicable and all moving parts are free and moving,sounds like passing the buck to me,personally I would be having an independant inspection done before they get their hands on it,because they will free up the sticking calipers and just hand you the worn pads and disc's, an in dependant will not to be able to prove or disprove anything other Than Hy findings,going on what they can see,I would take their hundred quid and put it towards getting it fixed elsewhere
Sorry but I think you are being given the bums rush.
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I can only assure you that had the dealership felt the brakes were defective in any way then this matter would have been addressed by the terms of your Hyundai warranty.
I do appreciate that you may be disappointed with this response, but trust I have clarified our position with regard to this matter and as to why the clutch repair was not covered under the terms of your Hyundai warranty.
Did you have 2 issues?
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Hi,
As far as I am aware my clutch is fine. What you see was a straight quote from HY[UK] so I'm afraid it was their typo. (I did notice it though)
It saddens me that I have gone to all this time consumning work only to receive their feeble reply. I agree with you all that the calipers should NOT stick on something so new but really, I'm powerless to do anything against such a huge organisation. I am not prepared to spend any more money for independent enquiries only for Hyundai to tell me the same story. It's David & Goliath but sadly Goliath won on this occasion.
It means I still have to find £160+ to have the repair done. Think it's time I found a replacement for my driveway :fum:
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Really sorry to read your last comment.
Although this is a bad experience for you, changing vehicles is also an expensive stressful exercise too. I guess I would avail myself of the 100 pound offer and have the brakes fixed. It may be the only thing major to ever go wrong with the vehicle.
No vehicle or manufacturer is perfect and in mass produced numbers, sometimes faults do occur unfortunately. Most people on this forum are quite happy with their brake performance and wear, so your problem is very unusual.
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Sticking calipers are hardly a manufacturer's problem. They are generally caused by external factors such as a build up of grit from the road surfaces. Sometimes this gets cleaned away in normal use or by cleaning the car. At other times it doesn't.
So I see their point.
However, sticking calipers WILL cause a definite discolouration of the pads and, probably the discs, with hot spots evident.
(I seem to think I may have said all this above but will retype it as it's important).
An inspection of the pads and rotors by someone experienced in these matters will establish if this is the case. A very simple visual inspection.
However, if this IS the cause, they should be replacing or skimming the rotors at the same time as the pad replacement AND overhauling the calipers. Not doing either of these things will cause a continuation of the problem. And bleed the brakes thoroughly to get rid if the fluid which has been subject to overheating in the caliper.
On the "typo" in Hyundai's response, I would be replying to them pointing it out and with a comment like "If this is an example of your company's attention to detail, explain to me why I should have any faith in either your diagnosis or the repair you propose?"
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Thanks Phil & Surferdude,
Your comments are most welcome. As for writing back to HY to advise them it was not my clutch that was faulty, I'm not really into scoring points. I admit they made a mistake with their typing but I guess if they are sending out loads of emails/letters each day they're bound to get one wrong. Alas it was me - I don't think the world is against me .....YET :faint:
Anyway, the earliest I can make an appointment at the garage is 29th April as the service manager does not come back until next week and I am too busy just now. Lets hope the brakes last till then.
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As for writing back to HY to advise them it was not my clutch that was faulty, I'm not really into scoring points. I admit they made a mistake with their typing but I guess if they are sending out loads of emails/letters each day they're bound to get one wrong.
A valid point BUT it would appear the author may have taken a previously sent email/letter and changed it for your brake issue.
So does this show that they get a number of similar type issues/complaints and send out the same reply to each without actually checking whether the content relates to the issue/complaint.
Personally I would drop them a reply asking for details of the reported clutch issue as you were not aware of such and what action do you need to take.
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A valid point BUT it would appear the author may have taken a previously sent email/letter and changed it for your brake issue.
Personally, I'll give her the benefit of the doubt. She may well be sitting in a hot stuffy office in London [HY UK Headquarters] dreaming out the window as to what she's going to get up to at the weekend with her new boyfriend :whistler: :whistler:
....... Or she could just be totally incompetent :P
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That's very nice of you Trev.
I wasn't suggesting you should score points, just explain to them that they aren't doing their reputation any good. They are a multi million pound/dollar company world wide and should not be making mistakes like this.
I agree they've used some sort of "form letter" for your reply and honestly, that's not good enough.
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A valid point BUT it would appear the author may have taken a previously sent email/letter and changed it for your brake issue.
dreaming out the window as to what she's going to get up to at the weekend with her new boyfriend :whistler: :whistler:
....... Or she could just be totally incompetent :P
Answer on a postcard please
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Me thinks you're all reading way too much into this obvious slip up.... :undecided:
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Hi All,
Thought I'd give you a [Final] update on my brake problem as it has today been resolved to my satisfaction.
I followed up my original email/letter to the CEO of Hyundai [UK] with a 2nd email/letter to him as I wasn't at all happy with their original explanation nor their paltry offer. This resulted in an apologetic email from his secretary/manager advising they had reviewed the situation and they would pay for parts if I was prepared to pay the labour costs. I didn't need to be asked twice :happydance:. Furthermore, my dealer was also offering me discount on the labour so this morning I had new rear brake pads & discs replaced for £81.12
I am now a happy chappy, my faith in Hyundai has been restored and will continue to drive my pride and joy. The only downside is that I had to play Mr Grumpy for a few weeks complaining and feel HY[UK] should have resolved the situation sooner.
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Let's hope that's the end of the matter for you. :goodjob2:
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Good result. :goodjob:
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:wts: :goodjob2: :goodjob:
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Satisfactory result in the end. :goodjob2: Such a shame that you had all the bother before getting there.
Maybe the MD of Hyundai UK reads this forum and decided they'd had enough bad publicity.
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Having posted earlier in this thread of similar issues to Trev I thought I would add my experience. Also in Scotland, I needed to replace rear discs and pads at 29000 miles. Initially the garage said that it was not covered by the warranty and that they couldn't help me. I e-mailed customer service and got a reply stating "Brake pads and brake discs are consumable or serviceable items that would have their own limited warranty period. As a result I am unable to cover the costs of the repair." Unhappy with this I followed this up with an e-mail to Tony Whitehorn as follows:-
"Dear Mr Whitehorn
I am writing to you in the hope that you can quickly resolve my grievance with Hyundai.
I am unhappy with the response I have received because
1) The rear discs needed replacing at only 25,000 miles but the front discs are fine.
2) The original tyres are still fitted to the rear wheels and still have plenty of tread left at 30,000 miles.
The above indicates that the car has not been driven hard.
3) No mention of wear was made at the service at 21568 miles but the discs needed replacing at 25328 miles when I first became aware of the brakes overheating.
It beggars belief that the rear discs needed replacement at such a low mileage as a result of fair wear and tear. My previous cars, not Hyundais, didn't require replacement discs until the cars had covered much higher mileages, 80000 miles plus. At 25328 miles the dealer report states "suspect pads sticking in carriers. brake discs heavily lipped recommend replacing rear discs and pads" although sticking calipers might also have been the cause. Either way, I don't know how this could be caused by drivers use, driving style, location and conditions and would suggest that I have not experienced an expensive repair caused by fair wear and tear.
I am aware of a very similar situation (Trev's reference given) where your involvement brought about a swift and amicable resolution and would ask that something similar be done in my case.
Yours sincerely,"
This resulted in an investigation by a Senior Case Manager with the following response:-
" I am sorry that due to your not having visited this Hyundai dealer before we do not have enough history to be able to answer the questions you raise comprehensively. All technicians working in our network of dealerships are highly trained and experienced, repairing and servicing Hyundai vehicles on a daily basis. In light of this, I am confident in this dealer’s decision that the brakes were scored and showed clear signs of wear and tear and not a failure due to a manufacturing defect. Your rear brakes can wear for a number of reasons while not showing wear on your tyres or front brakes.
However, as you are a loyal customer I am happy to cover 50% of the costs you have incurred in replacing your rear brakes. The costs you paid were as follows:
Brake pad set £42.37
Brake disc £106.20
Plus 20% vat
Total £178.28
I have requested a cheque for £90 be made payable to you"
So basically no admission that the brake repair was necessitated by anything other than wear and tear but a decent offer that I have gladly accepted.
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Sounds like a good result in the circumstances.
Thanks for letting us know. :goodjob:
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I am sorry that due to your not having visited this Hyundai dealer before we do not have enough history to be able to answer the questions you raise comprehensively.
Why did they not contact previous dealer(s) for details of service reports etc?
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I just have to add to this thread, recently my brakes started to make a little noise i suspected that the rear pads were a little low so asked my local dealer to have a look and guess what all my pads and disc's needed replacing :scared: My mls was 44K and yes like others pads are expected but not disc, cut a long story short, picked up car bought pads from the dealers and mate fitted them, yes pads were shot but disc were a little lipped but nothing that needed replacing. Again i think the dealers are trying to have one over us :head_butt:
i30Sean
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If the rear brakes were overheating, that would be due to the calipers not operating correctly. In other words they are sticking and holding pressur eon th epads even when you are not using the brakes.
There is no way that is NOT a warranty issue.
The pads and shoes wore out due to faulty caliper operation.
Nothing the driver could do would cause the rear calipers only to sieze up.
But I can understand them suggesting a "pro rata" adjustment to your cost.
basically, you paid for waht you would have used normally.
However, the main thing is, were the calipers overhauled?
If not, the same problem will occur again and more quickly.
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Has to be a safety issue too. I would argue against pro-rata as the cost has already been borne in increased fuel consumption.