How is a space saver spare legal when it's not S rated?

geemeister · **October 04, 2018, 00:25:37**

As we know the SR only comes with a space saver spare.

How is it legal to use when it's rated to 80Kph only when all tyres fitted to Aust vehicles must have a minimum S rating ie up to 180kph? Couldn't an isurance company decline a claim if you crash with a space saver on because the car had compromised tyres on?

What would happen if you fitted 4 space savers on at once?

Surferdude · **Reply #1: October 04, 2018, 01:16:01**

Excellent point.
There was a time, back a few years now, when RACQ service people were refusing to fit space savers for exactly this reason.
I don't know what happened to change their attitude.

Not only is it rated to 80 kph but its OD is considerably less than the proper wheel and tyre assembly which can't do your diff any good. Probably even worse on an AWD.

I remember about 10 years ago a lady came into Goodyear at Kedron with a two weeks old Focus. She was about 70 years old and had a slow leak in a tyre. Somewhere in discussion she spotted her space saver spare and blew her top. At Ford, not us.
Went back to demand a full sized matching alloy spare.
Came in the next week to show us she'd got it.
And she'd used a few 3x2 pine cutoffs to lift the boot floor to accommodate it.

Great lady.

Surferdude · **Reply #2: October 04, 2018, 01:17:19**

Having said all that, I assume because the cars have been ruled to meet the ADRs, insurers have accepted them.

geemeister · **Reply #3: October 04, 2018, 01:26:15**

Still dodgy in my book. I will insist on a regular spare when I buy a new car. I won't mind if it's not a matching alloy to the stock wheels , a steely with a regular tyre with the same rolling resistance will do as who knows where you will be when you get a flat.

Dazzler · **Reply #4: October 04, 2018, 01:29:12**

I'm happy to live with the spacesaver and a can of gunk (for absolute emergencies) for the benefit of being able to lower my boot floor for about 40 litres extra storage. We do regular long road trips. Many brands use spacesavers now and some don't have a spare at all (just a repair kit!)

When was the last time you had a puncture?

geemeister · **Reply #5: October 04, 2018, 01:42:58**

Quote from: Dazzler on October 04, 2018, 01:29:12

I'm happy to live with the spacesaver and a can of gunk (for absolute emergencies) for the benefit of being able to lower my boot floor for about 40 litres extra storage. We do regular long road trips. Many brands use spacesavers now and some don't have a spare at all (just a repair kit!)

When was the last time you had a puncture?

About 4 years ago, nail in tyre, but before that probably 1993, so yeah I have to admit fairly rare. 40 litres wow that sounds like a lot of space lost from the boot if a spare is fitted. Certainly less weight is also a benefit I guess.
Still not sure how it's allowable to use a 80k limited tyre when an S rated is the minimum for Oz.

Dazzler · **Reply #6: October 04, 2018, 01:48:43**

Quote from: geemeister on October 04, 2018, 01:42:58

Quote from: Dazzler on October 04, 2018, 01:29:12
I'm happy to live with the spacesaver and a can of gunk (for absolute emergencies) for the benefit of being able to lower my boot floor for about 40 litres extra storage. We do regular long road trips. Many brands use spacesavers now and some don't have a spare at all (just a repair kit!)

When was the last time you had a puncture?
About 4 years ago, nail in tyre, but before that probably 1993, so yeah I have to admit fairly rare. 40 litres wow that sounds like a lot of space lost from the boot if a spare is fitted. Certainly less weight is also a benefit I guess.
Still not sure how it's allowable to use a 80k limited tyre when an S rated is the minimum for Oz.

They are only temporary and limited to 80 kph. There is obviously an exemption for this in the rules as probably 20+ percent come with spacesaver now.

mickd · **Reply #7: October 04, 2018, 02:43:29**

Quote from: Dazzler on October 04, 2018, 01:29:12

I'm happy to live with the spacesaver and a can of gunk (for absolute emergencies) for the benefit of being able to lower my boot floor for about 40 litres extra storage. We do regular long road trips. Many brands use spacesavers now and some don't have a spare at all (just a repair kit!)

When was the last time you had a puncture?

KANGAROO ISLAND !!

Dazzler · **Reply #8: October 04, 2018, 07:55:38**

Quote from: mickd on October 04, 2018, 02:43:29

Quote from: Dazzler on October 04, 2018, 01:29:12
I'm happy to live with the spacesaver and a can of gunk (for absolute emergencies) for the benefit of being able to lower my boot floor for about 40 litres extra storage. We do regular long road trips. Many brands use spacesavers now and some don't have a spare at all (just a repair kit!)

When was the last time you had a puncture?

KANGAROO ISLAND !!

Yeah, but how many people ever go there!

Barbarulo · **Reply #9: October 04, 2018, 09:24:20**

I just assumed that all new cars have to comply with regulations. There'd be a hue and cry if it was illegal.

I don't remember the last time I got a flat and most of my driving is in the city, so I'd get it repaired ASAP anyway.

mickd · **Reply #10: October 05, 2018, 02:16:38**

Space savers - aren't they speed limited to 80 km/h ? ?
If yes , would assume they meet regs to travel at that pace .
Have seen 80 limits on 17" steel rims with higher profile tyres when car has 19" with low profile.
That Could be arse covering in relation to supposed handling diffs between tyre profiles.

beerman · **Reply #11: October 05, 2018, 02:22:29**

Quote from: mickd on October 05, 2018, 02:16:38

Space savers - aren't they speed limited to 80 km/h ? ?
If yes , would assume they meet regs to travel at that pace .
Have seen 80 limits on 17" steel rims with higher profile tyres when car has 19" with low profile.
That Could be arse covering in relation to supposed handling diffs between tyre profiles.

And how many times do you see a car with a speed limited space saver doing highway speeds? Answer all the time.

Most also have the space saver fitted to the front because they can't be arsed doing the right thing and fitting it to the rear wheels because they would have to change 2 tyres.

Surferdude · **Reply #12: October 05, 2018, 02:26:13**

Quote from: mickd on October 05, 2018, 02:16:38

Space savers - aren't they speed limited to 80 km/h ? ?
If yes , would assume they meet regs to travel at that pace .

They are and they do.
However, even S rated tyres can handle legal highway speeds.
Unfortunately I seriously doubt drivers stick to the 80 kph limit when one is fitted.
There was a very clear pic a few years ago of a Subaru involved in a fatal high speed crash with a clear shot of the space saver wheel fitted.

Edit. beerman is on the money.

nzenigma · **Reply #13: October 05, 2018, 03:37:52**

Quote from: Dazzler on October 04, 2018, 07:55:38

When was the last time you had a puncture?

KANGAROO ISLAND !!
[/quote]
Yeah, but how many people ever go there!

[/quote]

And Yeah, how many people can change to the spare after Bob Jane's 'Bubba the Moron' has welded the wheel nuts on at 200 ft lb. ?

Dazzler · **Reply #14: October 05, 2018, 03:44:37**

Quote from: nzenigma on October 05, 2018, 03:37:52

And Yeah, how many people can change to the spare after Bob Jane's 'Bubba the Moron' has welded the wheel nuts on at 200 ft lb. ?

I've lost a lot of my upper body strength with PD (not the i30 PD) so not confident I could get a wheel off with standard spare wheel tools.

nzenigma · **Reply #15: October 05, 2018, 04:03:48**

Quote from: Dazzler on October 05, 2018, 03:44:37

Quote from: nzenigma on October 05, 2018, 03:37:52

And Yeah, how many people can change to the spare after Bob Jane's 'Bubba the Moron' has welded the wheel nuts on at 200 ft lb. ?

I've lost a lot of my upper body strength with PD (not the i30 PD) so not confident I could get a wheel off with standard spare wheel tools.

Dont feel bad Dazz. The tools will bend or break before the nut will come loose.
I carry an old ( not made in bloody China

) 4 way wheel brace in each vehicle.
This over tightening happens regularly. I suppose I shouldn't stir the folk who call RACQ to change their flat tyres.
I took 4 wheels off a ute yesterday , had to use a sidchrome breaker bar lengthened with a lump of pipe. I expected to snap a few of the wheel studs.

Surferdude · **Reply #16: October 05, 2018, 04:18:09**

Quote from: nzenigma on October 05, 2018, 03:37:52

Quote from: Dazzler on October 04, 2018, 07:55:38

When was the last time you had a puncture?

KANGAROO ISLAND !!

Yeah, but how many people ever go there!

[/quote]

And Yeah, how many people can change to the spare after Bob Jane's 'Bubba the Moron' has welded the wheel nuts on at 200 ft lb. ?

[/quote]
Well now. Never seen a tyre shop compressor set for more than 100 psi. Maybe 120 in a truck centre.
And I've never found one I couldn't get off with just a 4 way wheel brace, unless rust is present.
But as Dazzling says, standard, come with the new car tools are not only inadequate but dangerous.
IMHO. 😀

Dazzler · **Reply #17: October 05, 2018, 06:10:38**

I have got a 4 way brace somewhere. I had it in the Calais, must track it down!

mickd · **Reply #18: October 05, 2018, 06:32:34**

Carry 4 way brace , ages old , and an extendable bar from Auto Pro $25.
Use my legs to push down on ex bar, then 4 way. Reverse process to tighten.

heap of

💩 scissor jack killed me. Trolley jack comes for a ride now.

CraigB · **Reply #19: October 05, 2018, 06:36:08**

Quote from: Dazzler on October 05, 2018, 06:10:38

I have got a 4 way brace somewhere. I had it in the Calais, must track it down!

I twisted and snapped my last 4 way brace trying to undo the rear nuts on my Clubby, after the huge burnouts and several runs down Motorolex the heat had locked em on

I now use a 450mm 1/2” ratcheting Gearwrench brace I picked up from toolmart at half price, much easier on my back too