[wynpd]

I have been noticing different diesel blends around, including up to 20% bio diesel. On the inside of the flap it says not to use more than 5% biodiesel. Why?

There's an informative web site at http://www.biodiesel.org.au/ which talks about the enviro-benefits of bio fuel, but doesn't explain why some cars might not like this %.

Can anyone enlighten me?

BTW, fuel efficiency improving and the dealer reckons around 10,000kms before optimum efficiency is realised, but at least we've got past 600kms/tank now!

[CRM114]

Wynpd

there is a long thread in the general discussion section. It's a little old, so go back a few pages, heading is BIODIESEL

Mods, how do you link a thread here?

[EymaTeapot]

CRM114, Do you think that Monkey with the white flag may be going through an identity crisis?
Maybe it was a mouse in a previous life?

[Dazzler]

Hi Wynpd & CRM114,

Here is the link to bio diesel thread

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=499

(You just open the other thread then copy the link into this thread)

Rgds,

Dazz

[wynpd]

Thanks for that link - it makes interesting reading. I am not considering 100% bio diesel, but a few local garages have 20%. One in particular is a well known brand - BP - being sold at an independent garage. I wonder why a major org. would bother making and distributing this if it was no good for our cars.  

It looks like I will have to avoid this for the next 5 or 6 years and who knows what they will be selling us then!

The cost is much the same as straight diesel.

I am getting to know my new car but have lots more questions........

[CRM114]

CRM114, Do you think that Monkey with the white flag may be going through an identity crisis?
Maybe it was a mouse in a previous life?

Eyma, the clue is in the white flag and the Citroen........

Something about the coalition of the willing, a few years back

[EymaTeapot]

Ok CRM114,

I am on the case now.
It is a cheese eating surrender monkey.
Dont you love Google

[r5e]

I'm a little in the know here, but I won't bang on in here about it, that first link for biofuel.org.au - that site is about to die (I know as I run it). A better link about biodiesel (one word not 2) is www.biofuelsforum.com (I run this site too). You'll not necessarily find a completely impartial view there, as most of it is pro biodiesel, but you'll hopefully be able to find some stuff out from a community of users, some of whom have i30s.

The short answer may be this:

1. There is a difference between commercially produced and home grown (though some home-brewers would dispute). The main reason for the low limit in Oz is the fear from manufacturers of lack of availability of "on spec" commercial bio.
2. There is a lot of mis-information, even among the manufacturers. They err on the side of caution without actually properly testing.
3. No manufacturer ever warrants the fuel, just the components against defects. If you use anything at all that is out of their spec, in fact even if you don't, they will try to find a way to wriggle out of responsibility on a warranty claim. You can get a dodgy tank of dino-diesel that does not comply with the fuel standards that Hyundai subscribe to just as easily as with bio.
4. If you do chose bio, there are standards, make sure your supplier complies and make sure you educate yourself. It is possible to use "on-spec" bio and keep your car happy, but you may need to be aware that it is a natural solvent and it will clean out any residual sludge left behind from dino-diesel and wash it into your fuel filter. Many of the first attempts at bio end here when an uneducated user (or mechanic) find a clogged filter and blame "bad fuel".

I won't go on too much about this in here, as it is not the forum for it, if you really want to know about this, there are other forums to ask in.

Good luck and be careful

[whitbomb07]

Well last night I was faced with having to use 2% biodiesel at A Highway Caltex at Warnervale, all diesel pumps had 'this may contain up to 2% biodiesel'

I asked the attendant about it and he said 'it's company policy now for it to have up to 2%'

Is this true? Or is he telling furphies?

I had been liking the caltex diesel, seems to give better performance and economy, but if all they have now are blends, I think I might start to shy away from them, BP seems to be selling diesel cheaper (but I'm unsure if it is a blend or not).

At first I was rather annoyed with this fact. However the economy and performance of this blend actually seem to be = or greater than normal diesel. I'll let you know how the tank goes.

Regards

Daniel

[EymaTeapot]

Hi Dan,
A bio diesel blend doesn't have to be bad thing. If the car runs just as well, and if it can bring down the price per litre, than it may very well turn out to be a Good thing.

[davet]

A small amount of biodiesel may be a good thing in low sulphur diesel fuel.

http://www.biofuelsforum.com/using_biodiesel/217-ultra_low_sulphur_diesel_biodiesel_warranties.html

[r5e]

A 2% blend is hardly worth worrying about. You'll find that most ULSD (Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel) ends up getting this 2% of biodiesel added to it to restore the lubricity. I wrote a thread on this in another forum a couple of years ago if anyone wants to research it further here.)

When ULSD was introduced the process of refining the distillate so that it contained less parts per million of sulphur also diminished the lubricity of the fuel ( the ability of the fuel to lubricate the injector pump). Many people were spending a lot of money at diesel pump rebuild specialists as a result.

Many methods were attempted to restore the lubricity of ULSD. There are also many chemical additives available. It turned out that biodiesel (which when properly made to spec will fulfil or exceed all the critical properties of petroleum distillate) would completely restore the lubricity when added as little as 2%. This turned out to be a pretty cheap and easy way compared to other chemical additives etc.

You'll find that there are significant benefits of slightly stronger blends (B10 or B20 - 10% or 20%) as it is an oxygenated fuel and the combustion process is smoother and more complete (resulting in less smoke from unburned particulates, less "knock" for a quieter engine and more low-end torque and perhaps slightly better economy depending on how you drive). As you get up into higher blends, the economy can drop slightly depending on driving habits to about 5% worse economy for B100.

At a B2 blend, you'll not notice any real difference, perhaps a very slight improvement, but you can at least be sure that the pistons and moving parts inside your injector pump are getting proper lubrication and thus prolonging their life. Caltex seem to be the best at using low bio blends and they've been doing blends up to 5% in NSW for quite some time now.

Hyundai will warrant the car up to B5, as most of the OEMs are doing. This is a figure that they seem to have picked as it is very safe and over-conservative (IMHO). You'll find that it is a common theme that no manufacture provides warranty based on the fuel used, but on manufacturing defects. There are often cases of people getting dodgy fuel (be it dino or bio) and having to take their case for warranty repairs to the fuel retailer instead of their car manufacturer. The more reputable bigger names should stand behind their fuel so always beware of the discounts and always keep your receipts.

Still on the Hyundai fuel specification, it is curious to note that they actually have their numbers a little wrong. They specify a cetane rating of 52 to 54, which you will find a hard time obtaining in Oz. On higher bio blends, you will also get a higher cetane (depending on the feedstock), but at B5, or B2, you'll find that it won't make much difference. (See a link to another forum discussion on this here). This may seem off-topic for me to mention this, but I do so to point out that the numbers that Hyundai have used are not handed down on high from men in white coats who know all about this stuff. They do make mistakes and it is more about legal backside covering and conservativeness than about making sure you use the right fuel. This is just another way of highlighting my point - don't worry about a reputable fuel supplier using B2 or even B5.

(ha, I've just noticed that davet posted the same links I did while I was typing this  )

[EymaTeapot]

Very informative,
Thanks Davet and r5e.