[sundiz]

It's a shame that the battery change did not help. The system should reinitialize itself when the car is restarted and the fault is fixed. Some car brands might need a fault reset with manufacturers diagnostic software but I'm not sure if Hyundai is one of those brands. Can anyone confirm that? Cruiserfied?

I got service call from Hyundai some time ago. They wanted to change the brake light switch. Has that been changed in to your car? It was a "warranty" service eventhoug the warranty had run out in my car... There was some sort of manufacturing problem in that part. I believe that has caused some problems with cruise controls and other units. You guys might know more about that topic. Does the brake light switch affect to ABS and ESP?

[Asterix]

Yes I also had the brake light switch replaced by Hyundai outside of warranty. There have been a recall from Hyundai about that.

The switch does affect the ABS, Cruise control & ESP, but i don't see how it can cause a total power loss.

[Fi30cw2009]

Yes I also had the brake light switch replaced by Hyundai outside of warranty. There have been a recall from Hyundai about that.

The switch does affect the ABS, Cruise control & ESP, but i don't see how it can cause a total power loss.

I got that done last year, it was right at the end of the manufacturer's warranty period. I also got some other minor work done under warranty at the same time (right rear door handle snapped off, and rear window water pump stopped working). I didn't have any electrical or battery-related issues at that time.

[Fi30cw2009]

So I took my car in for inspection. I only spoke briefly with the guy a while later, and didn't get the exact fault codes, but basically he said that the steering column needed replaced and they'd need to order the part from overseas (Sweden). He couldn't tell me the cost because he'd have to check into it, but he'll call me back once he knows, tonight or tomorrow.

I can't be entirely sure, but I caught a snippet of conversation between that guy and a mechanic, and I very definitely heard the sum of 3800 euros mentioned. I suspect they were discussing my car. I fear the worst.

[Johnno]

Elm327 = €25  ($35)

Delphi €2400  ($ 3500)

Bit of a price difference. Not really a consumer product, the Delphi.

Dave you can pick up a copy for about £50 - £60 full delphi software and reader.

Lorian as bought one and I've tried one

[tohis]

So I took my car in for inspection. I only spoke briefly with the guy a while later, and didn't get the exact fault codes, but basically he said that the steering column needed replaced and they'd need to order the part from overseas (Sweden). He couldn't tell me the cost because he'd have to check into it, but he'll call me back once he knows, tonight or tomorrow.

I can't be entirely sure, but I caught a snippet of conversation between that guy and a mechanic, and I very definitely heard the sum of 3800 euros mentioned. I suspect they were discussing my car. I fear the worst.

 

Before ordering it, ask the service manager what they will do (or not do) in the case replacing the steering column didn't cure the problem. If they would refuse to put the old parts back and refund the price of steering column, go to an another garage. There are too many garages interested only for maximum ripoff instead of good service. Also, it may be worth of asking for a second-hand steering column from scrap yards.

[sundiz]

Hard to believe that it would cost 3800€. With 3800€ you can buy a whole crashed car with a working steering column. If that is the price for the job, ask how much are the parts and how much is the labour. If the total is 3800€ I'd recommend second hand column or buy it from some other place (you could also ask the cost of the labour from other company). Dealers have ridiculous spare part prices here... If course the actual work is expensive, might be more expensive than the needed parts. I hope you heard some other guys service price.

I paid almost 300€ when I bought fuel filter assembly from the dealer. I could have got the same part from Koraps with 100€ + shipping.

[Fi30cw2009]

Well, I've been reading other threads (such as Hyundai i30 SX 2009 (Australia) power steering failure from six months ago) and on other forums too, and those who have had similar problems have reported the cost as being really high. One guy in the UK was out over £2000 (~2700 EUR) and in the thread I linked, he was talking about AU$3800 (~2500 EUR), both for steering column replacements in similar model and age Hyundais. At those price points, and allowing for the "everything is more expensive in Finland for no apparent reason" tax, something in the mid-3000s sounds about right to get it done here. I'm not holding my breath on this one.

On that note, any tips on where to find secondhand parts would be much appreciated. I've tried avk.fi and eah.fi, and some of the repair garages in Tattarisuo. It seems like I'm after the secondhand car part equivalent of the Holy Grail.

[Fi30cw2009]

So I went and got my car from the service center. I still never heard back from the first guy I spoke to (although he promised to call by lunchtime today, which was two hours ago), so I don't know the cost or availability of the part I need. However, I did get a copy of the service report, such as it is, and a bill for 36 euros for reading the computer. The EPS was functioning for the first minute or so of my drive, so I'm guessing they reset the computer at some point and it was just playing catch-up.

The report unfortunately doesn't contain notes of any error codes (I asked the greasemonkey who gave it to me, but he just shrugged noncommittally and said "That's all there is") but it has a note that the car needs a replacement steering column power steering motor (in Finnish, ohjaustehostimen moottori uusittava). If that's the right translation, and more especially if parts can be switched between various models and engine sizes, then it should possibly be easy enough to source (I believe it's this: 2009 Hyundai i30 1.4 petrol Power Steering Motor Ecu steering Shaft | eBay). Unfortunately that's something I don't know too much about, though.

[Fi30cw2009]

Small update: I contacted another Hyundai service center (Laakkonen) with the info I'd gotten so far, and they said the part was available to order - but there was something about it being linked to the axle assembly, and I'd need to buy the thing as a unit. They quoted 2340 euros for the part, plus labour, so I'd probably be looking close to 3000 euros anyway.

[Wingerdave]

And that, gentlemen, is why i want a workshop manual. Not to potter around myself so much, but just to be able to coroborate what i'm thinking and know how the car is put together.

I've always had a factory workshop manual for evry car and motor bike i've ever owned...... until now 

[Phil №❶]

It is possible to purchase "copied"  manuals on line but they are 15 GB compressed and wouldn't cover your latest model vehicle. It seems Hy's policy is to supply every model, year and variant they've ever made, which is why the files are so large. 80% of the content is redundant.  It can be handy for all the torque bolt settings and specifications for limits, e.g. brake pads, oils, etc.

[Wingerdave]

I see, very helpfull.

The size isn't a problem (said the barmaid to the vicar) coz i have flat rate internet 180 Mb/s, but if it isn't available for my modern jalopy, that's moot.

Thanks anyway.

[sundiz]

Did they give you the part number? Or is there a place/software where you can find i30 part numbers? It is so much easier to find parts online when you have the right number.

You could also check if they have it at koraps.com. May take few weeks to deliver but price should be way smaller than here in Finland. There were quite a few wrecked i30s at avk.fi couple of days ago and some of the cars are being sold as parts. You could call there and ask if they could sell you that part.

At koraps.com there seemed to be some steering columns for sale, but hard to tell if they are right ones. The seem to cost approx 1200$. If you can find one there at least it's a bit cheaper.


Is this the right part? Only 450€... Ohjaustehostimen Pumppu Sähköinen - Hyundai i30 -08 - V44487

[Fi30cw2009]

Is this the right part? Only 450€... Ohjaustehostimen Pumppu Sähköinen - Hyundai i30 -08 - V44487

Unfortunately not, and the guy at Laakkonen double-checked the same thing - it's not the pump I need, it's the actual motor (at least, according to the people at Teboil). The pump is available quite widely and seems to be more common, so having to replace the whole assembly is (hooray for me) apparently very unusual.

I have a friend who has a much better class of OBD reader, so I'll be borrowing that tomorrow evening, and I'll try and dig out the error codes for myself. I'll also try and get the part number of the power steering motor (yes, ohjaustehostimen moottori) from the Laakkonen people, as well as a quote on labour and projected total costs.

Thanks for the tip about koraps.com, I'll take a look there.

[Fi30cw2009]

I still don't fully understand the whole reason for replacing the axle assembly though. I've been trying to read up on this, and as far as I can tell, the motor itself is simply a part of the steering column. Or are they compelled to replace the whole assembly for safety reasons, if the motor has been acting up? Here are some images that helped me to visualise it. In the larger image (MDPS.jpg), the blue thing just south of the steering wheel is the motor itself (these are for an i10 but should be broadly applicable to an i30). Anybody care to chime in on this aspect of it?

[sundiz]

I cannot see the reason why there has to be so much electronics in the steering system: Hyundai Power Steering (MDPS) - YouTube

Older non electric power steering used to be "bullet proof".

[sundiz]

Hard to tell how the motor has been assebled there. Usually those "non-fixable" parts can be fixed.The motor has been assebled to the steering system at the factory, so I should come also off. It's more likely that the manufacturer does not want to sell one cheap part. It's better for them If they make these "bigger parts" which include huge amount of small cheap parts.

Here's a good example of modern car dealers.

Toyota Hybrid cheap fix - the dealer wanted 00... - Album on Imgur

No dealer want to actually fix something. They just want to put new parts instead of fixing the broken one. And that happens in all consumer products from TV's to cars. And the consumer pays the price...

[sundiz]

I looked the pictures and those parts that are for sale. There is that round cylinder "part" in this assembly. Ohjaustehostimen Pumppu Sähköinen - Hyundai i30 -08 - V44487

Isn't that the actual motor?

[Dazzler]

Great to see one Finish member helping another (great work sundiz) 

[Phil №❶]

The electric steering system is very complex. There are no "pumps" in the system at all.

To move the wheels, the system needs to know the new angle required, AND ALSO THE RATE AT WHICH THE DEFLECTION IS REQUIRED. This means that the sensor needs to determine the amount of deflection from straight ahead and also how much force is being applied to the steering column by the driver, then translate that, electrically, to the steering rack. The sensor is a combined position and rate of change sensor. Add to this, 3 rates of steering effect and pretty soon you require a lot of electronics to achieve it. There is also electronics to detect faults as well.

I can't see any reason not to replace the unit with a 2nd hand one from a known vehicle which hasn't been in a severe accident, preferably rear ended. As long as the model and mechanical specs are identical, it should work.

Whether electric is better than hydraulic, who knows. 

[sundiz]

Great to see one Finish member helping another (great work sundiz) 

I think we all would have some better use for 3000€ than byuing a new powersteering pump. And we have this nice forum where people actually help each other, so I'll try to do my best. I've gotten some good tips and help here so I'll try to give something back.
In my opinion the pricing of the new parts is not from this planet. I would like to know how much it would cost if you would buy the whole car as parts... If you byu new i30 it costs something between 22000-30000€ depending on equipment etc. And that's a whole car. And they get even profit from that. How can a single "part" cost over 2000€. A full engine with that price tag would be ok, but a steering column assembly. Not OK.

[Dazzler]

Great to see one Finish member helping another (great work sundiz) 

I think we all would have some better use for 3000€ than byuing a new powersteering pump. And we have this nice forum where people actually help each other, so I'll try to do my best. I've gotten some good tips and help here so I'll try to give something back.
In my opinion the pricing of the new parts is not from this planet. I would like to know how much it would cost if you would buy the whole car as parts... If you byu new i30 it costs something between 22000-30000€ depending on equipment etc. And that's a whole car. And they get even profit from that. How can a single "part" cost over 2000€. A full engine with that price tag would be ok, but a steering column assembly. Not OK.

Totally agree. This expensive (but fortunately rare) steering failure issue was one of the reasons I opted to update the wife's CW to a new Tourer after 4 years (before the warranty ran out)

I believe there may be cheaper ways to repair it (or use 2nd hand parts) but they don't make it easy for us to find that path!   

[Phil №❶]

For those interested, here's a small sample of what we're dealing with, This is just the sensor.

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[Fi30cw2009]

I think we all would have some better use for 3000€ than byuing a new powersteering pump. How can a single "part" cost over 2000€. A full engine with that price tag would be ok, but a steering column assembly. Not OK.

Totally agree. This expensive (but fortunately rare) steering failure issue was one of the reasons I opted to update the wife's CW to a new Tourer after 4 years (before the warranty ran out)

Unfortunately, given the relative value of the car (two years ago I paid 16k for it, I can buy one now with similar mileage for around 10-12k), there don't seem to be many sensible options other than to just pay the 3k and hope to use the car for many more years. If I'd sell it, with the defect, I'd get maybe 6-7k at most. And then I'd still have to buy a new car! I haven't quite paid this one off yet - would have been fully paid by the end of this year.

[Dazzler]

If you can hang in there for a few more days hopefully someone will come up with a cheaper solution. That's the worst thing about this site.. Almost too much information at times! 

[Fi30cw2009]

Well, my friend just showed up with a slightly better OBD reader than mine (a Quicklynks T40), so I'll give that a go tonight and see if I can pull any useful codes from the onboard computer. However, given the nature of the problem and based on other threads I've looked at, I would put money on them being C1259 (EPS failure/steering angle sensor) and C1290 (torque sensor).

[Fi30cw2009]

I looked the pictures and those parts that are for sale. There is that round cylinder "part" in this assembly. Ohjaustehostimen Pumppu Sähköinen - Hyundai i30 -08 - V44487

Isn't that the actual motor?

Now I have no idea. I emailed one guy who asked if I meant the pump, and I told him that the mechanic specificially wrote 'motor'. He responded by saying that the pump and the motor are the same thing - it's a motor, sure, but it's named as a pump. (His original response in Finnish: Tuo on pumpun nimikkeellä, mutta sähkömoottorihan tuo meidän osa on... Kysy tarkennus mekaanikoltasi mitä osaa hän tarkoittaa.)

Can anyone else shed light on this?

[sundiz]

It would make sense that it is just a naming issue.

I would believe that the part is still named as "power steering pump" eventhoug it is a motor.  Especially in finnish. There has been powersteering pumps for decades and now then the pump is replaced by the motor in electric systems, people still continue to call them pumps.

[Wingerdave]

It's a electric motor and as such not a pump (coz it doesn't pump any liquids round).

They probably call it a pump because in the olden days it was a hydraulic pump driven by the engine. But basically they do the same thing but electric power steering is IMHO more prone to failure because of the electronics and sensors.