[bradleyc123]

Hey all,

Sorry brand new to the forums and require a bit of help.
Have had a google and a looksy on the forum but couldnt find anything/

I have a 2012 GD Premium i30, Australian model. (Petrol) 1.8L. Auto.

I have just clicked over 95,000km's and have had it serviced.
After the service there were no issues, but then a few days later the car developed a slight tap/knock sound, which now has developed into a large tap and rattle sound.
Essentially, its minimal on idle, but increases with the acceleration.

I have taken the car back and they believe it is a sticky hydraulic lifter. They proceeded with a new oil flush i believe, and the additive to unstick the lifter.
But as mentioned the noise continues - it's been like this for i guess a week now with no signs of getting better.

I am taking it back in for them to dig deeper, but not for a few more days.

Can anyone advise what this could be?

Its had regular services, and no issues. No issues were picked up during the service either.

All help is appreciated, thanks.

Brad

[Dazzler]

Welcome Brad,

Don't apologise. That's what we are here for. I can't help with that one. But hopefully someone can.

If the issue started after the service then whoever serviced it is responsible to rectify.

[Dazzler]

If the issue started after the service then whoever serviced it is responsible to rectify.

Sounds like they are trying, but hard to prove it wasn't there before. 

If the issue started after the service then whoever serviced it is responsible to rectify.

Sounds like they are trying, but hard to prove it wasn't there before. 

They would know, every time a vehicle goes for servicing a "condition of vehicle" report is written, surely a audible engine knock would have been recorded if present before servicing.

Disappointing that they don't notice after servicing though

[tw2005]

an audio recording of it may help although honestly hard stretched to diag over the web. Is this the regular garage? What grade of oil?

Maybe they forgot to fill it with oil, started it , did some damage then put the oil in    Joking but you never  know.

Could be coincidence, broken valve spring, faulty lash adjusters? is it running ok and idling smoothly

[nzenigma]

After the service there were no issues, but then a few days later the car developed a slight tap/knock sound, which now has developed into a large tap and rattle sound.
Essentially, its minimal on idle, but increases with the acceleration.

I have taken the car back and they believe it is a sticky hydraulic lifter. They proceeded with a new oil flush i believe, and the additive to unstick the lifter.

If the issue started after the service then whoever serviced it is responsible to rectify.

Sounds like they are trying, but hard to prove it wasn't there before. 

They would know, every time a vehicle goes for servicing a "condition of vehicle" report is written, surely a audible engine knock would have been recorded if present before servicing.

Disappointing that they don't notice after servicing though

On face value, it is coincidental.

"After the service there were no issues, but then a few days later the car developed a slight tap/knock sound, which now has developed into a large tap and rattle sound."


"Essentially, its minimal on idle, but increases with the acceleration.
I have taken the car back and they believe it is a sticky hydraulic lifter. "

Got to check, but from memory the i30 does not have a conventional lifter.

Edit: No hydraulic lifter. Instead its a mechanical lash adjuster (mla)

Irrespective, the sound described better suits increased  load on a component such as those on or around a piston.
But as @tw2005  says, too little info to diagnose on the web.

[bradleyc123]

Thanks everyone, i will re-assess on Monday and let you know of any future news/outcomes.

[Dazzler]

Thanks everyone, i will re-assess on Monday and let you know of any future news/outcomes.

Please do. We really appreciate updates on these situations.

Many similar threads have been left in limbo. 

[tw2005]

After the service there were no issues, but then a few days later the car developed a slight tap/knock sound, which now has developed into a large tap and rattle sound.
Essentially, its minimal on idle, but increases with the acceleration.

I have taken the car back and they believe it is a sticky hydraulic lifter. They proceeded with a new oil flush i believe, and the additive to unstick the lifter.

If the issue started after the service then whoever serviced it is responsible to rectify.

Sounds like they are trying, but hard to prove it wasn't there before. 

They would know, every time a vehicle goes for servicing a "condition of vehicle" report is written, surely a audible engine knock would have been recorded if present before servicing.

Disappointing that they don't notice after servicing though

On face value, it is coincidental.

"After the service there were no issues, but then a few days later the car developed a slight tap/knock sound, which now has developed into a large tap and rattle sound."


"Essentially, its minimal on idle, but increases with the acceleration.
I have taken the car back and they believe it is a sticky hydraulic lifter. "

Got to check, but from memory the i30 does not have a conventional lifter.

Edit: No hydraulic lifter. Instead its a mechanical lash adjuster (mla)

Irrespective, the sound described better suits increased  load on a component such as those on or around a piston.
But as @tw2005  says, too little info to diagnose on the web.

I'm confused. Where did you get the data for the Lifter? They're Hydraulic HLA from what I read. If they are mechanical does that mean there's a servicing schedule to adjust these periodically?





This is the 1.8L NU motor?

[nzenigma]

There appears to be no hydraulic function or adjustment.
The mechanical lash adjuster (mla) is arranged between a cam and one end of the stem of a valve urged by a valve spring. The lash adjuster comprises an unrotatable housing having a thread, a plunger subjected to the force of the cam and formed with a thread in engagement with the thread of the housing, and a plunger spring urging the plunger against the action of the valve spring.

You will note that the above part is called a lash.
The mla was designed to replace hydraulic lifters.
For the sake of convenience, I have taken my info from  FD 2.0 L  data. I assume that they haven't reverted to hydraulic for the GD.

[nzenigma]

Mate, this more fully explains the mla .
 https://www.ntnglobal.com/en/products/review/pdf/NTN_TR75_en_P078.pdf

on page 3 is an explanation why they are self adjusting.

Back to OP's tapping, even though his mechanic has used incorrect nomenclature , a failed mla would presumably create a tapping noise... along with a host of other possible causes.

[tw2005]

There appears to be no hydraulic function or adjustment.
The mechanical lash adjuster (mla) is arranged between a cam and one end of the stem of a valve urged by a valve spring. The lash adjuster comprises an unrotatable housing having a thread, a plunger subjected to the force of the cam and formed with a thread in engagement with the thread of the housing, and a plunger spring urging the plunger against the action of the valve spring.

You will note that the above part is called a lash.
The mla was designed to replace hydraulic lifters.
For the sake of convenience, I have taken my info from  FD 2.0 L  data. I assume that they haven't reverted to hydraulic for the GD.

FD state MLA for the 2.0.

but GD 1.8 states HLA and I can see the hydraulic port hole on the left side, very much the same design like Mits.

FD are solid tappets



Chalk and cheese but it's interesting seeing that design in the link.  I'm sticking with Hydraulic 

[nzenigma]

There appears to be no hydraulic function or adjustment.
The mechanical lash adjuster (mla) is arranged between a cam and one end of the stem of a valve urged by a valve spring. The lash adjuster comprises an unrotatable housing having a thread, a plunger subjected to the force of the cam and formed with a thread in engagement with the thread of the housing, and a plunger spring urging the plunger against the action of the valve spring.

You will note that the above part is called a lash.
The mla was designed to replace hydraulic lifters.
For the sake of convenience, I have taken my info from  FD 2.0 L  data. I assume that they haven't reverted to hydraulic for the GD.

FD state MLA for the 2.0.

but GD 1.8 states HLA and I can see the hydraulic port hole on the left side, very much the same design like Mits.

FD are solid tappets



Chalk and cheese but it's interesting seeing that design in the link.  I'm sticking with Hydraulic 

Just took time out to look at the GD, yes it does say Hydraulic lash, interesting that they changed given the supposed virtues of mechanical.

[bradleyc123]

Thanks everyone, the efforts and communication is very well appreciated.

I will have it assessed Monday and hopefully get a result and let you all know.

[nzenigma]

Thanks everyone, the efforts and communication is very well appreciated.

I will have it assessed Monday and hopefully get a result and let you all know.

All good mate,  hopefully you will have no real problems. 

Some of the above is just 'techies' talking and self teaching ( a new phenomenon here)  so thanks for bringing on a subject to excite us.

[tw2005]

Thanks everyone, the efforts and communication is very well appreciated.

I will have it assessed Monday and hopefully get a result and let you all know.

All good mate,  hopefully you will have no real problems. 

Some of the above is just 'techies' talking and self teaching ( a new phenomenon here)  so thanks for bringing on a subject to excite us.

[bradleyc123]

Hi guys,

So the guys at the mechanics listened with a stethoscope, and proceeded to say the noise is coming from bottom end. They are only a servicing place so they don’t really open up engines.
They replaced the oils again, and have given me a few days for it to clear, and if not (expecting it not to clear) I will have to take it to another mechanic who replaces or rebuilds engines.
That’s the advice I have been given.

Not sure how this happened
Cars been serviced every 10,000kms, its ahead of schedule, its only done 97,000kms.
Its only 7 years old.

[nzenigma]

This does not sound nice.
Yes you need to find an independent garage with (a or) some mechanics with real world experience.
That GD motor is still a baby, so wear and tear will not be a factor.
But bottom end tapping could be a crank bearing. A shot big end bearing has a lighter tap than a crook main bearing.

Im guessing that it will be strip, look, quote.

After saying it was probably just coincidence that it happened after the oil change, we still have no evidence of part fault so cannot  blame them.
 However, from what you now say, I would now be looking for some foreign matter that could have been in the oil and has blocked an oil galley (feed route). It most likely is bulk oil that they have used so who knows what could be in the bottom of a 40 gal drum.

Good luck and stay in touch. G

[Dazzler]

If it is something serious. Am I right in assuming it might be cheaper to source a good 2nd hand engine rather than fix this one? @tw2005 @nzenigma

[nzenigma]

If it is something serious. Am I right in assuming it might be cheaper to source a good 2nd hand engine rather than fix this one? @tw2005 @nzenigma

Yes Dazz, generally thats the way to go if you are not a hands on DIY mechanic.

 Workshop labour cost will shove the price up. So Bradley should have this option up his sleeve when talking to his mechanic.

HYUNDAI I30 ENGINE PETROL, 1.8, G4NB, GD, 05/12-02/17 | eBay

This is an example, (40,000 Km) some wreckers ask more but I wouldn't pay any more than $900.

But hey, the knock may be a minor glitch.

[Dazzler]

Cheers mate.  Don't know what we'd do without you. Stay safe.. 

[bradleyc123]

Thanks guys, you guys are very helpful.

What is the cost and time usually to replace an engine?

I am getting a 2nd opinion tomorrow from another mechanic that I think can do more than just listen like this mechanic did.

Hopefully it is a glitch or oil or something not serious, its just odd with the amount of KM's and service history for there to be an issue.

Brad

[nzenigma]

An efficient workshop would would take a day to swap it.
Say about 8-10 hours at about $120 / hr.

[bradleyc123]

New mechanic still have trouble diagnosing the noise.
They are proceeding with another oil flush, claiming possibly the wrong oils were used.
If it persists ill then take it back to them for further analysis.

[Dazzler]

 

[nzenigma]

Well said Dazz.

I think  

[bradleyc123]

Update -
New mechanic has located the fault, believed to be (sorry my technical knowledge is pathetic) - timing chain/camshaft related.
So they are replacing the timing chain along with the variable timing gear and inlet...

A nice 4k down the drain.

Pretty disappointed, apparently they spoke to Hyundai who said they have never had any issues with this engine and its just bad luck.

2 years out of warranty.

[tw2005]

Update -
New mechanic has located the fault, believed to be (sorry my technical knowledge is pathetic) - timing chain/camshaft related.
So they are replacing the timing chain along with the variable timing gear and inlet...

A nice 4k down the drain.

Pretty disappointed, apparently they spoke to Hyundai who said they have never had any issues with this engine and its just bad luck.

2 years out of warranty.

they quoting 4 grand! Must be kidding themselves. What the breakdown  and are the parts genuine no doubt? If they habe the part numbers listed I'd do a bit of research first. You could get a whole low k motor fitted for less I would think. 

If you have the part numbers please post

[bradleyc123]

A car with a replaced motor isnt worth squat to re-sell thats the problem.
Hyundai parts apparently.
They are apart of VACC so I rate them.

I dont have the time or patience to take it from one mechanic to the next to shop around and uber every fkn day to work.