[Greyhound]

Regarding cluster part number. Have you tried entering you car VIN on http://partsouq.com/ and see which part that throws up for cluster that matches your specific car?

This thread may tell you more about recording of old odometer reading in owners book if new cluster is fitted by dealer.
2010 i30 1.6 CRDi CW Instrument Dash Panel LCD Screen Illumination Problem

One more thing comes to mind. You will see from the circuit schematic "INDICATORS & GUAGES (2)", that the LCD LED connects direct to "CLUSTER GROUND". Can you check if connection to that "CLUSTER GROUND" is good. I would think that to be vital reference for cluster logic circuits to work properly.

[eLod]

Regarding cluster part number. Have you tried entering you car VIN on http://partsouq.com/ and see which part that throws up for cluster that matches your specific car?

i didn't know that site, thanks. entered my vin (it's TMADB51CABJ152727) and it lists the part number (the same i can read from the part itself obviously). it does not list anything else or i'm not sure how i should be searching. it specifically says:

Engine Capacity: (D1) 1400 CC - GAMMA; Fuel Type: (1) GASOLINE - UNLEADED; TRANSAXLE: (5) MANUAL T/M - 5 SPEED 2WD; opt: 5891A2, 5894A1, 9401C1, 94M0A1, 94X4A1, 94X6A1

not sure what those opts are, i guess the same ones i've found on the other site (i think this is my config: ABS (ANTI LOCK BRK SYS), ESC (ELECTRONIC STABILITY CONTROL), CLUSTER TYPE - CONVENTIONAL, SPEEDOMETER TYPE - KMPH, AUTO STOP (ISG), M/T SHIFT INDICATOR)

This thread may tell you more about recording of old odometer reading in owners book if new cluster is fitted by dealer.
2010 i30 1.6 CRDi CW Instrument Dash Panel LCD Screen Illumination Problem

yeah i actually found that thread and a couple others. they indicate that the cluster never gets recoded officially and the mileages (real vs displayed) simply differ. that said i found some other sites saying the eeprom (the one on my cluster, i am guessing it is s93c56) can be changed, but i haven't found a reliable guide/howto/description.

One more thing comes to mind. You will see from the circuit schematic "INDICATORS & GUAGES (2)", that the LCD LED connects direct to "CLUSTER GROUND". Can you check if connection to that "CLUSTER GROUND" is good. I would think that to be vital reference for cluster logic circuits to work properly.

yeah i found that on the schematic but i am not sure how to identify that on the board actually or how to perform test on it actually, can you help me with that?

[Greyhound]

just to be explicit: so my part number for the instrument cluster is 94033-2R500. i found a site which lists components. if you check my part number is for multiple configurations and for those multiple configurations there are multiple other part numbers listed as well, so i would think that my part number is compatible with all the listed configuration for it and further all part numbers that list one of those configurations (that is listed for my part number) is also compatible, but obviously i am not sure.

You mentioned multiple configurations of the cluster from that site, that is why I suggested entering you VIN on partsouq to confirm the part for your vehicle.

yeah i found that on the schematic but i am not sure how to identify that on the board actually or how to perform test on it actually, can you help me with that?

From Photos and Schematics at test point for "Cluster Ground" is unseen. I could guess that it is the large areas of copper on the copper side of the cluster board, but is just a guess. (I am not an automotive Electrician).

The only thing that says Ground or "G" is centre pin of the voltage regulator you posted earlier. I see you have done that already:

What are the voltage readings on each of its pins I,G and O? If IGO is In-Ground-Out, you should have 12-14V on I, 0V on G and something in-between, maybe 5V, on O.

measured the IOG as you instructed, I is 11.85V, G is 0V, O is 5.02V so i guess this is alright.

Personally, with the limitations of available information regarding the circuits and workings of the cluster, I would give up on measurements and go for part substitution to try and solve the problem, even though that means spending some money with no guarantee of a fix.

I assume your ISG problem (Reply #8) was corrected by the new battery. I assume that new battery you puchased was one compatible with ISG?

[eLod]

You mentioned multiple configurations of the cluster from that site, that is why I suggested entering you VIN on partsouq to confirm the part for your vehicle.

sorry, my english is not that good. what i've meant is, i know the exact part number in my car. however that exact number has multiple configurations listed, (i'm guessing) meaning that it is good/compatible with other configurations not just mine. furthermore (still theorising), if my part number is compatible with for example configurations A, B and C, i would expect that other part numbers that list A or B or C is also compatible with my part number (for my own configuration).

From Photos and Schematics at test point for "Cluster Ground" is unseen. I could guess that it is the large areas of copper on the copper side of the cluster board, but is just a guess. (I am not an automotive Electrician).

The only thing that says Ground or "G" is centre pin of the voltage regulator you posted earlier. I see you have done that already:

What are the voltage readings on each of its pins I,G and O? If IGO is In-Ground-Out, you should have 12-14V on I, 0V on G and something in-between, maybe 5V, on O.

measured the IOG as you instructed, I is 11.85V, G is 0V, O is 5.02V so i guess this is alright.

Personally, with the limitations of available information regarding the circuits and workings of the cluster, I would give up on measurements and go for part substitution to try and solve the problem, even though that means spending some money with no guarantee of a fix.

yeah i will try to inspect it if i can, i am not an electrician either so i am not sure if i will find it. i tried to see how/where the lcd is connected but i was afraid to try to disassemble it bc potentially ruining something.

i will speak with an electrician just to be on a safe side, i'll see if i can get an appointment soon

I assume your ISG problem (Reply #8) was corrected by the new battery. I assume that new battery you puchased was one compatible with ISG?

no, nor my previous, neither my new battery is a start stop one, so i don't expect the isg to work, and most of the time it simply never did (the isg off button's light is always on, can't switch isg on). however since these draws began and changed the battery there was at least 2 times where i went for a ride on friday (the car was used previous sat or sun, so almost 1 week standby) and suddenly isg started to work (the car shuts off at red light, the indicator shows up on the cluster and the button's light is off, i can push it and it turns isg off and then pushing again turns it back on, and it seems the isg is fully functional). i am not sure, but then on the weekend i usually disassemble the car, disconnect the battery so it resets back and isg is permanently off again. not sure what is causing it, very strange. i do have a larger battery then the original, the same one as before (same model number, it used to be an austrian one, now its varta blue dynamic E43, 572 409 068 (this number was on the austrian one as well), 72ah, 680A).

[The Gonz]

There should be some large easily visible areas of copper that measure 0V when operating, as a common ground for the board. Other large areas would likely show 12V when powered. The G pin on the regulator should show a short (0 Ohms) to the correct ground rail.

But ... I agree substitution is now the smarter option.

[eLod]

There should be some large easily visible areas of copper that measure 0V when operating, as a common ground for the board. Other large areas would likely show 12V when powered. The G pin on the regulator should show a short (0 Ohms) to the correct ground rail.

But ... I agree substitution is now the smarter option.

here are the good photos i have about the board, but i can investigate further.

i can order the cluster for the 100 EUR no problem, i am just not sure what part the BCM play in this (the BCM is easier to find and way cheaper, even for 10-20 EUR for the exact same part number, though i know i have to have it coded for my setup so there is additional cost and etc., but just testing it out).

edit: just to be sure, these are large photos, you can click on "load full resolution" in the imgbb site in the middle of the photo to have the original (better quality for zooming in)

[The Gonz]

In general, all circuit designs have the majority of their components referenced to ground. You can work from a ground pin at a connector (or the regulator G pin) and then from that reference, look for short-circuit contact across the board (with the power off) or probe to find the 0V points with power on. I'm not convinced you will gain very much from exploring in this way without a good schematic.

I've reverse engineered complete circuits just probing and track tracing, then drawing up a schematic, but not to this complexity.
I tried finding a datasheet for the MB90F025F, a Fujitsu embedded microcontroller, but no luck.

[eLod]

In general, all circuit designs have the majority of their components referenced to ground. You can work from a ground pin at a connector (or the regulator G pin) and then from that reference, look for short-circuit contact across the board (with the power off) or probe to find the 0V points with power on. I'm not convinced you will gain very much from exploring in this way without a good schematic.

I've reverse engineered complete circuits just probing and track tracing, then drawing up a schematic, but not to this complexity.
I tried finding a datasheet for the MB90F025F, a Fujitsu embedded microcontroller, but no luck.

i very much appreciate your time and energy spent. i didn't understand this is a lengthy process, i thought it's something clearly visible to the naked eye (that's why i uploaded those photos).

so do you think i should order the cluster from ebay? should i try a bcm first?

i was thinking maybe performing one another test.

as far as i understand currently the problem is related to the cluster and bcm, specifically the door switch pins and some other pin from the same bcm connector. also as i said, if i just ground those other pins from the same bcm connector the problem is also present.

in a factory service manual i've found that the door switch controls are voltage based (sorry for the wording, but my understanding is limited), eg it says under "Terminal voltage" for the BCM, row says function: logic input, pin name: driver door sw, state: open/on, voltage level low level: below 1V, voltage level high level: over 6V.

obviously if i ground any of the door pins themselves the lcd actually comes fully on (showing the indicator as well) and draws more power than my parasitic drain. now if those door pins are connected and one of the other problematic pins also connected the light is also half on, and if i ground any of those problematic pins the same happens.

so i want to measure voltage with voltmeter on these pins (on bcm and on cluster as well) when any of those problematic pins are connected or grounded, maybe something there causes a problem?

on the other forum a guy suggested buying some cheap diodes (1N4001) and try to block current from flowing from bcm to cluster, though i said i couldn't measure current going through those door pins.

do you think any of those tests (or any other) is worth trying out, or i should just skip to order replacement parts?

[eLod]

i just bumped into this thread Intrument panel display backlight stays on after closing car

it's the exact same problem, but he says the instrument cluster got replaced but the problem remained. i have messaged him for further info, maybe has some pointers.

[Greyhound]

I have just done a search and found this thread on hyundai-forums: Parasitic Battery drain B+3 | Hyundai Forums

Whilst I do not think that link will help you with your cluster problem, it may help others searching "parasitic current draw" on here in the future. Of interest is a door/tailgate switch fault affecting the logic, preventing the car entering into "sleep mode".

[eLod]

I have just done a search and found this thread on hyundai-forums: Parasitic Battery drain B+3 | Hyundai Forums

Whilst I do not think that link will help you with your cluster problem, it may help others searching "parasitic current draws" on here in the future. Of interest is a door/tailgate switch fault affecting the logic, preventing the car entering into "sleep mode".

thanks i've found that thread myself before. at one point we disconnected everything (including the tail gate lock/latch) on the tail door, even the window deicer and the draw was present, so we excluded those.

[The Gonz]

I may be going over old ground (pun unintended) but this can get confusing. Is parasitic draw present with all the door switch pins disconnected? If so, the problem will be elsewhere. Another way to check is to ensure every door switch is transitioning cleanly between 0V and 12V. Also, is the cabin light on while it happens? Disconnecting cabin light or removing its globe might eliminate one more doubt.

[eLod]

I may be going over old ground (pun unintended) but this can get confusing. Is parasitic draw present with all the door switch pins disconnected? If so, the problem will be elsewhere. Another way to check is to ensure every door switch is transitioning cleanly between 0V and 12V. Also, is the cabin light on while it happens? Disconnecting cabin light or removing its globe might eliminate one more doubt.

so the draw was present when i connected only

1, power and ground pins on instrument cluster connector A (pins 13 and 23 if i recall correctly)
2, 4 door pins on instrument cluster connector B (pins 10-13 if i recall correctly)
3, 4 door pins on bcm connector B (pins 12-15)
4, washer motor pin on bcm connector B (pin 5)

nothing else is connected on instrument cluster or on bcm (and everything else is connected in the car) and the drain is present. furthermore the drain is present if i connect the 4 door pins directly from instrument cluster to bcm, leaving out the door switch paths totally. also the drain is present if i connect washer motor pin to ground and not to it's actual connector.

most of the time while i am investigating i keep the dome/rooftop light on off so it does not interfere. i can confirm when the car is totally assembled and door closed or locked with alarm the dome light goes out while the lcd backlight comes on (if i recall correctly when open and close a door, this coincides, eg when the dome light fades out the lcd backlight comes on, i think around half minute, but when you lock with alarm the dome light fades out immediately and the lcd still only comes on after around half a minute).

[The Gonz]

the drain is present if i connect the 4 door pins directly from instrument cluster to bcm, leaving out the door switch paths totally

This sounds like you can assume the door switches are not the problem unless there is a path from the BCM to the switches elsewhere.

Any non-standard aftermarket add-ons or signs of DIY modifications? GPS, dashcam, reverse cam?
Has the latest power cut-out safety modification (at the battery and engine fusebox) been done correctly?

[eLod]

the drain is present if i connect the 4 door pins directly from instrument cluster to bcm, leaving out the door switch paths totally

This sounds like you can assume the door switches are not the problem unless there is a path from the BCM to the switches elsewhere.

well as i said nothing else was connected on the bcm, so i doubt it.

Any non-standard aftermarket add-ons or signs of DIY modifications? GPS, dashcam, reverse cam?

no, i don't know of any and i haven't found anything while disassembling the front pad (for the inside fuse box), the cluster or the center console (for the bcm).

Has the latest power cut-out safety modification (at the battery and engine fusebox) been done correctly?

sorry, i am not sure if i understand what you are asking

[The Gonz]

Quote from: The Gonz on 3 hours  ago
Has the latest power cut-out safety modification (at the battery and engine fusebox) been done correctly?

sorry, i am not sure if i understand what you are asking

About a year ago Hyundai sent me a letter to have a power cutout circuit installed as a change to the fusebox near the battery, and it included an extra connection to the battery as well. It is designed to cut power to some system components that would otherwise keep being fed 12V, considered a fire risk if moisture got in.

Dear Hyundai Customer,

Hyundai is recalling certain Hyundai vehicles produced between Aug. 17, 2005 and May 14, 2011.

Our records indicate that your Hyundai is affected by a vehicle safety recall that requires the installation of a relay kit in the anti-lock brake (ABS) circuit.

When in contact with moisture an electrical short within the ABS module may cause an engine compartment fire, even when the vehicle is turned off, as the circuit is constantly powered. This could increase the risk of serious injury to occupants, bystanders and property. We therefore recommend the vehicle is parked away from flammable structures e.g. not in a garage.

To correct this potential concern we request that you contact an authorised Hyundai dealer to arrange a time to have this procedure performed. This work will be carried out free of charge. A list of Hyundai dealer locations and service department contact details can be found atwww.hyundai.com.au/dealer.

Please present this notice to your Hyundai dealer when attending your appointment. We understand that due to Coronavirus, you may have reservations about attending your local dealership, or the dealer may be operating reduced hours for the short term. We recommend you to contact your dealer to confirm the process relating to Good Hygiene for coronavirus (COVID-19) and their operating hours. The health and safety of you and Hyundai dealer personnel are the priority.

[Greyhound]

@The Gonz Is this the fuse box recall you mentioned: Recall HYUNDAI R/2020/059 - Vehicle Recall UK

[eLod]

Quote from: The Gonz on 3 hours  ago
Has the latest power cut-out safety modification (at the battery and engine fusebox) been done correctly?

sorry, i am not sure if i understand what you are asking

About a year ago Hyundai sent me a letter to have a power cutout circuit installed as a change to the fusebox near the battery, and it included an extra connection to the battery as well. It is designed to cut power to some system components that would otherwise keep being fed 12V, considered a fire risk if moisture got in.

i'm not registered to anywhere, i bought the car like 2 years ago used, was imported from austria before that. the history is somewhat documented, but for example i already took it to a shop that is a general shop and not a hyundai dealer.

can you describe what i need to check/look out for?

edit: i already shared my vin above TMADB51CABJ152727, not sure if that helps you check anything

[The Gonz]

@The Gonz Is this the fuse box recall you mentioned: Recall HYUNDAI R/2020/059 - Vehicle Recall UK

Yes, the wording matches. When I was installing LED switchback DRLs like mine to a neighbour's car, I noticed his model had different work done on the fuse cover, introducing a piggyback fuse wired externally to the battery positive, and a different shape cover as a result. This threw me because the ignition-on voltage in his box was then a different location than on mine. A couple of months later, I got my recall and by then I knew the difference.

[eLod]

so today's findings:

everything connected, but the cluster and the bcm. on the cluster on connector A pins 13 and 23 (power and ground), on connector B only the 4 door pins. on bcm only connector B, door pins. now if i connect for example pin 5 on bcm connector B (wash motor) to its own connection (eg between bcm and the connector) the drain is present. even if i connect the pin 5 on bcm connector B (on the board) to ground the drain is present. furthermore many other pins behave the same way, if i connect them to ground the drain is present.

1, i measured the voltage for the 4 door pins at the bcm and at the cluster. if there is no drain, the voltage is around 12.1V for all the pins at the cluster and the bcm. if i connect pin 5 (bcm B) to ground the voltage drops to 11.12-11.13V for all pins both at bcm and cluster. not sure if this drop is enough to turn the lcd half on or it indicates something different.

2, what is strange to me, that with this setup the draw is 80mA (fuel sender not connected), however this is what i see: if i have the setup described as above and i connect - disconnect the pin 5 - ground i see the lcd backlight turning on and off, however the amp meter is not changing a bit, dead steady at 80mA, not sure if it's some capacitor or how i don't see change in current.

3, what is double strange i did a test with only 2 door pins connected at bcm and pin 5 grounded. then i inserted the diodes for the 2 door pins and checked all 4 possible scenarios (the diodes parallel same direction both ways and diodes inverse direction both ways) and only in 1 (parallel) was the draw present. i tried to reason about it, but i am not sure how this is possible.

4, first i double checked, tried to measure with the ammeter, tried to measure with a 2A clamp, i don't see any current on those door pins, not at cluster not at bcm (when diodes not present, drain present). i really don't understand what is going on.

5, however now there seemed a solution, first i tried adding the 4 diodes to all 4 pins (all connected) and verified the draw is not present (the backlight actually does not come on). then i just checked, if i insert only a single diode but between pin 5 and ground i could also make the drain not present. then i tried moving the diodes to the cluster door pins, but that did not work (all the same direction, in one way the drain was present, the other way simply the lcd did not come on on door open).

6, as a final test i did reconnect all connector on cluster, both A and C connector on bcm, and every pin from connector B with small wires, but having the 4 diodes in the door pin connections. as far as i can tell everything works and the drain is not present. the diodes were connected like: female pin in connector (so the wire that comes to the board) - cathode (smaller grey part) - anode (larger black part) - male pin on the bcm board.

7, i also checked out the bcm if i see anything on it, photos attached, there are some wear marks, but i think that is likely some coating melting and not burn marks.

8, meanwhile a couple days ago i ordered a used bcm (same model number), it was 12 eur with free shipping (from lithuania), so i figured it's worth it to check out even if i throw it out right after (i know replacing bcm has ramifications for key programming)

9, now the bcm is in a place that is very hard to get to, so i think maybe it would be easier to fit the diodes at other place like those MF12 and MF22 connectors, do you maybe have PHOTO 54 and 91?

[eLod]

+1, i think i might have offset my engine coolant temperature gauge, eg when the vehicle is stopped it falls way below zero, and when driving even after 10-20km it never goes above the first mark (i guess 70), i think it used to be in the center (90). i noticed those gauges can turn way much around and has some room before 0. the speed and rpm gauges do settle at 0 and work ok, the fuel tank gauge also seem to work ok. i tried to set all the 0 before putting it back, but once i got the key in to ignition and switched off the temp gauge fall way below 0. how do i reset it?

[The Gonz]

Good progress but without a board in my hands increasingly difficult to follow. The spare board should be a big help. I'm not fully understanding the effect of the diodes but don't forget they typically contribute .7V each as a voltage drop when forward biased.

[eLod]

Good progress but without a board in my hands increasingly difficult to follow. The spare board should be a big help. I'm not fully understanding the effect of the diodes but don't forget they typically contribute .7V each as a voltage drop when forward biased.

that voltage drop is without diodes. eg the grounding of the pin 5 in bcm connector B makes the door pin circuits go from 12.1V to 11.1V (and turns the lcd backlight half on)

[eLod]

well i took a day off, the other bcm arrived on monday. i just tried the replacement bcm but the problem is still present (the lcd backlight is half on, drain is present), so i would guess it's not the bcm. most likely it's the cluster, but i am not sure if it's worth it to try to replace that, and the easier solution is to place the diodes in (either myself or get some shop to do it).

one thing i noticed is that if i hit the central lock (or all door lock/unlock, whatever it is called) on the driver door the backlight is turned off for half a second, eg doors are not locked, i push the unlock all side of button (i see 5-6A on ammeter at battery) and the backlight turns off, after a second or two the backlight comes back on. (on my driver door i have the mirrors controller thing, the lock/unlock all doors button, and 2 window up/down switches, my rear windows are manual)