[MRH130]

haha the old "they all do that" defence.

Definitely the oil. My Beta engine in Crystal was beautifully smooth and quiet even when started in -6 degrees, even after 40000 hard kms. I've heard the noise you're talking about and I definitely believe it's the oil. Some Alpha engines in Getzes do it too, but mine is smooth as a baby's behind. Can't be a coincidence!

[marvy]

haha the old "they all do that" defence.

Well they do, so it's a valid comment.

The manuals for the car specifically say that it's normal. For further information, read the wiki entry here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_tappet.

There are a number of potential problems with hydraulic lifters. Frequently, the valvetrain will rattle loudly on startup due to oil draining from the lifters when the vehicle is parked. This is not considered significant provided the noise disappears within a couple of minutes, typically it usually only lasts a second or two. A rattle that does not go away can indicate a blocked oil feed or that one or more of the lifters has collapsed due to wear and is no longer opening its valve fully. The affected lifter should be replaced in the latter situation.

[2i30s]

he did give me the,oh, and you should hear an older getz or an excell on cold start.   mabee so on an engine of 200.000kms but not on an engine of only 16.000kms.   talk about pi$$ing in someones pocket.  

[2i30s]

i believe you 100% marvy on the tappet or lash adjuster noise,but,and ill say it again m8,not on an engine of only 16.000kms old,it must be my oil and also the in laws and wife's oil as its the same oil and the same type of engines.my wife and her father drive like each other,slow as a snail,where I'm a bit of a boy racer and we all spend 5Min's to warm up the engine before motoring off so its not our missuse or anthing like that.a couple of members have said they have a cold start rattles but none i know of are needing an oil top up between each service.it cant surely be 3 bad or faulty engines.that's why I'm blaming these problems on the oil. IMO.   

[marvy]

I agree with you that the HLA noise is a good indicator of your oil quality, oil pressure and oil level. In my old car I had basically exactly the same problem that you describe. The oil would deteriorate after a few thousand km's and it would start to have rattle at start up. It's normal for oil to change it's viscosity with time and use. I would say that the oil is probably just losing some of it's winter thinness. So your 5W-40 is probably turning into a 15W-50 as it ages. It's probably not all that significant as it's probably lubricating fine still. My old car that did this all the time for has now done 300,000km and is still going. I might also add that I was as worried as you about it at the time and I changed from the dealers castol oil to mobil 1. I can't remember if it made a significant difference but I can tell you that I don't worry about the noise much these days and looking at the top of the engine, the cams look fine with minimal wear.

I would recommend changing types of oil to see if that helps and to top up the oil level frequently to keep the level full. My old car now has enough oil leaks around the engine bearings that top ups are just about replacing oil changes  I have also switched to GTX3 on my old car as it's a little thicker and a hell of a lot cheaper and I don't really care if the engine doesn't last another 300 megameters.

[2i30s]

the oil use seems to be worse in summer, not winter. thanks marvy. 

[MRH130]

haha the old "they all do that" defence.

Well they do, so it's a valid comment.

Well, yes and no - if you take that to its logical extreme you could say that if it throws a rod and you take it to the dealer they can say "they all do that - characteristic of the vehicle". Given the right circumstances, that's true - doesn't mean it's acceptable. We have a 1.5 Getz in the family that's done 230000km (well maintained but it does work for its living) and it still doesn't rattle or use oil. The only time I've ever heard it rattle was when it sat unused for 2 weeks and then the lifters tapped for about 10 seconds and it was quiet again. Given quality fluids and proper maintenance there's no reason why a sound engine should rattle or bang until it's VERY old. Clearly 2i30s' cars are not in that category. In the workshop, I heard a multitude of different cars rattle after oil changes on the standard issue workshop oil. Yes, they'll keep going for a long time despite that but I know I'd rather have my car running spot-on.

If the motor rattles worse in the heat, it sounds like the oil has lost its viscosity - sort-of gels with my experiences with Magnatec, where if you put the motor under stress the oil breaks down and causes failures (even apart from the rattles).

[marvy]

The problem is that there is nothing to "fix". You have 3 options as I see it -

1. You either find a better performing oil - if there is one which hopefully will solve the problem

2. You change your oil very frequently - or a combination of 1 & 2

3. You just put up with it, save the money and ignore the rattle on start up.

If you can find a better oil then that's great. If you change your oil more often it's going to cost more money for probably very little benefit. If it makes you feel better then that's great to.

All I am saying is that from the experience of my previous car over 20 years, I went through all the same worries and tried all the same things are you are now. In the end, I just changed the oil to a good quality oil, changed it at the service intervals and if it rattled a bit on start up I didn't get so worried.

You could go and change out all your HLA's but it's probably just going to do the same thing. As the wiki says, it's just a disadvantage you have to put up with when you have an engine with HLA's. I think you may have difficulty persuading the service centre to do it under warranty as well.

I agree with you that it's not ideal that the HLA's rattle but my point is that assuming your oil is OK, there is very little you can do about it in reality. We don't live in an ideal world.

It should be noted however that if the rattle persists after the engine is warm you are probably running lower then optimum oil pressure and you should get it checked.

On another topic - it's normal for the diesel to sound a little more "tractor" diesel when it's cold. It should become more quiet as it warms up.

[MRH130]

You're right Marvy, it's not really something to panic about, but my point is that if you have a good engine with good lifters that aren't leaking and you run it on good oil, there's no reason to expect that you'll get a rattle. I started my 30000km-old Getz this morning in -4 for the first time in a week and it was quiet as a mouse.

If you have a car that is rattling you can just take the course you've indicated (and that's what I'd do too if I got something that was already rattling) but to me it's a bit different with a new car and what is supposed to be "quality" oil.

Anyway, sounds like we're on the same page overall.