[marvy]

I am looking to change the oil in my CRDi 1.6 i30. I have been looking around for a suitable Oil. The manual that comes with the car has this under "Recommended Lubricants".

Diesel Engine 1.6L Without CFP: API Service CH-4 or Above, ACEA B4.

Now the problem is that it's fairly hard to find an oil that is CH-4 or above, and if you can find one, it doesn't meet ACEA B4. Many people have recommended Castrol Edge which is CF and someone else recommended a ELF oil which is also CF. It seems impossible to find an oil which can satisfy Hyundai's specification!

I have been looking at Mobile 1 ESP Formula M oil. It is a CF oil also, however it meet the ACEA B5 standard which apparently means it is equivalent to B1+B4 where B1 is an oil that can prove it improves fuel economy by 2.5% or more over regular oil. Sounds good to me. The Hyundai manual recommends "Energy Conserving Oils" in a foot note on the Recommended Lubricants page.

Anybody got any bright ideas?

[Mutley]

Why not use Hyundai oil?

[wardfam]

Castrol Edge website shows for sport 5w-30
Meets:SAE 5W-30, API SM/CF, ACEA A3/B3/B4.

Castrol Edge sport 0w-40 shows Approved for VW: 502 00, 503 01, 505 00 MB: 229.31, 229.51, BMW: LL04, Porsche approved-all Porsche vehicles except cayenne (V6)
Passes M111FE fuel economy test
Meets: SAE 0W-40, API SM/CF, ACEA A3/B3/B4, C2/C3

Cheers Craig

[marvy]

Why not use Hyundai oil?

I am not familiar with Hyundai brand oil. Can you please post the specification of said oil and where it can be purchased from and the price.

Castrol Edge website shows for sport 5w-30
Meets:SAE 5W-30, API SM/CF, ACEA A3/B3/B4.

Thanks Craig for confirming what I said in the original post. Castrol Edge is only CF compliment. My manual specifies CH-4 or above.

[Mutley]

Why not use Hyundai oil?

I am not familiar with Hyundai brand oil. Can you please post the specification of said oil and where it can be purchased from and the price.

I don't know the specs but obviously it's what they use in their engines which means it meets the specs and you buy it at your local Hyundai...ring them for a price.

[Paolo5]

I rang my local Hyundai service department a few weeks ago and asked them what oil they used in the i30 diesel. I was told that it was Hyundai 10W-30 oil and it was $52 for a 5 litre container. I wonder which oil company blends this oil for Hyundai?

Marvy, I decided to use Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 in my baby. A 20 litre drum is around $245. I have used Mobil 1 oils for well over 15 years without incident. All engines that I have used it in remained in excellent condition as far as I could tell. It is a peace-of-mind insurance for me and the cost isn't much different to other oils. eg. Nulon is $240 for 20 litres.

My only dilemma now is the frequency of changing this oil. ie. severe 7,500km or service schedule 15,000km?

[marvy]

Marvy, I decided to use Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 in my baby. A 20 litre drum is around $245. I have used Mobil 1 oils for well over 15 years without incident. All engines that I have used it in remained in excellent condition as far as I could tell. It is a peace-of-mind insurance for me and the cost isn't much different to other oils. eg. Nulon is $240 for 20 litres.

My only dilemma now is the frequency of changing this oil. ie. severe 7,500km or service schedule 15,000km.

I have basically come to the same conclusion. I was reading some testing so guys did that seemed to show that with high quality synthetic oils, it was better to leave the oil in longer rather than change frequently. The optimum was when you topped up the engine as required adding in some new oil. They found by analysing the oil that there was a spike in wear (iron and tin deposits?) shortly after each oil change. Their theory was that the oil change somehow caused a short term acceleration of wear.

I think I will go with the ESP oil. It seems to be the "best" out there at the moment. It complies with 507.00 in the VW standards which most other do not. The "Formula M" one is apparently one specially formulated for Mercedes. My logic is that as VW also make quite a few small fuel economical diesel engines, the oil that is specially brewed for them is likely to be also suitable for the Hyundai diesel.  But, that's only a guess.

[Paolo5]

Hi Marvy,
You are not wrong when you say that VW "make quite a few small fuel economical diesel engines"....I was in Austria several months ago and it seemed like over half of the vehicles there were VW diesels.

I have not heard the theory

it was better to leave the oil in longer rather than change frequently. The optimum was when you topped up the engine as required adding in some new oil. They found by analysing the oil that there was a spike in wear (iron and tin deposits?) shortly after each oil change. Their theory was that the oil change somehow caused a short term acceleration of wear.

I rang an oil analysis company yesterday trying to find out if they could assess whether oil sampled from my car's engine when it gets to 7,500 km has enough protection (viscosity, additives etc.) to comfortably go the extra 7,500km and be in line with 15,000 Hyundai servicing. The short answer was no, they couldn't.

I am going to possibly over-service my car and do the "severe" change myself in between Hyundai servicing.

[marvy]

I am going to possibly over-service my car and do the "severe" change myself in between Hyundai servicing.

Sounds like we are thinking along the same lines. The only problem I have is that if you put in a really good quality oil like the mobile. It will get dumped and replaced by the "Hyundai" oil of questionable quality. I would also think it would be generally better to stick with one brand of oil and stay with it rather then alternate each change. I guess I could try and get them to do all of the service except change the oil but I don't know how they would go with that.

[Paolo5]

I am going to try what several other members here have said that they do....supply the oil for the change.

If that isn't acceptable to Hyundai I will have all servicing done through an independent workshop that agrees to use the oil that I supply to them....and only visit the Hyundai workshop should any warranty work eventuate.

[agentr31]

if your going to change the oil yourself, then use the hyundai stuff... that way they cant turn around and go "the engine blew up because you used the wrong oil in it" same with brake fluid, coolant, belts, filters ect ect...

[Paolo5]

Hi agent31,
If Hyundai demanded that only genuine Hyundai oil be used for their diesel engine  to keep the generous warranty intact, there is no way that I would stray from it.

I have read from other clubmembers that different dealers use different brands of oil. Indeed, I was surprised to hear that Hyundai have their own branded oil. Not all Hyundai dealers seem to carry their own oil.

On reading from the i30 handbook, the recommended oil for the diesel is API Service CH-4 or above, ACEA B4 it is plain that there is some latitude on the dealers' part and on the consumer's.

We have a choice. My choice is Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30. It fits into the "or above" category.

Cheers,
Paolo5

[marvy]

On reading from the i30 handbook, the recommended oil for the diesel is API Service CH-4 or above, ACEA B4 it is plain that there is some latitude on the dealers' part and on the consumer's.

We have a choice. My choice is Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30. It fits into the "or above" category.

Paolo5,

As far as I am aware, Mobil 1 ESP is an API CF oil, which from my understanding is not "above" a CH-4. Hence my original question,

Tony

[Paolo5]

Hi Tony,
I re-read your initial posting and see what you are saying.
Oil classifications are a bit confusing. It depends which system you are using and Hyundai's recommendations are a bit ambiguous to me. Comparing the 2 systems is like the apples and oranges comparo.

The API (American Petroleum Institute), and the European counterpart, the ACEA (Association des Constructeurs Europeens d'Automobiles.

Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 is an API CF oil. It is also an ACEA B5 oil.

The full ACEA specs are:
•A1 Fuel Economy Petrol
•A2 Standard performance level
•A3 High performance and / or extended drain
•A5 Fuel economy petrol with extended drain capability
•B1 Fuel Economy diesel †
•B2 Standard performance level (now obsolete)
•B3 High performance and / or extended drain
•B4 For direct injection passenger car diesel engines
•B5 Fuel economy diesel with extended drain capability

My take on it is that B5 oils are an improvement on the B4 oils. As you have suggested before, the land of light diesels is indeed Europe. i30 clubmember Sven Erik (SRT Metro) told me that Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 is the oil that is recommended in Sweden for the i30 diesel and also for VW diesels. That was good enough for me.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it....

Cheers,
Paolo5

   

[marvy]

My take on it is that B5 oils are an improvement on the B4 oils. As you have suggested before, the land of light diesels is indeed Europe. i30 clubmember Sven Erik (SRT Metro) told me that Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 is the oil that is recommended in Sweden for the i30 diesel and also for VW diesels. That was good enough for me.

My thoughts exactly. By the way, the ESP oil is actually a B4 oil, only the ESP Formula M is a B5 oil. As I said, the ESP Formula M is a 5W-40 oil and it's designed for Mercedes.

[Paolo5]

Hi marvy,
I am going from this source:-

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_ESP_Formula_5W-30.asp

It was dated 6 2007

Cheers,
Paolo5

[marvy]

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_ESP_Formula_5W-30.asp

OK Sorry I must have misread that one.

I have been doing some more research on the CF CH-4 API ratings. It seems that the higher rated CH, CI, CJ oils are designed for Ultra low sulphur diesel. In theory this is what we have in Australia. The CF can be used in ULSD and in non-ULSD apparently. It also appears that the CH, CI, CJ are more applicable for truck diesels.

In the end, I think it would be a very very hard push for Hyundai to blame an engine failure on Mobil 1 ESP. I think Mobil would have something to say about the matter if they ever tried. It's specifications seem to exceed that of Castrol Edge and that coupled with it's recommendations from VW and from Hyundai in Europe give me some confidence it will work well. It will be interesting to see if it can produce any better fuel economy in the long run.

[Paolo5]

Mine has done just over 2000km and is presently running on 4.6L/100km. I am stoked!!

(I put the Mobil 1 in at 800km).

All the best, Tony

Paolo5

I am looking to change the oil in my CRDi 1.6 i30. I have been looking around for a suitable Oil. The manual that comes with the car has this under "Recommended Lubricants".

Diesel Engine 1.6L Without CFP: API Service CH-4 or Above, ACEA B4.

Now the problem is that it's fairly hard to find an oil that is CH-4 or above, and if you can find one, it doesn't meet ACEA B4. Many people have recommended Castrol Edge which is CF and someone else recommended a ELF oil which is also CF. It seems impossible to find an oil which can satisfy Hyundai's specification!

I have been looking at Mobile 1 ESP Formula M oil. It is a CF oil also, however it meet the ACEA B5 standard which apparently means it is equivalent to B1+B4 where B1 is an oil that can prove it improves fuel economy by 2.5% or more over regular oil. Sounds good to me. The Hyundai manual recommends "Energy Conserving Oils" in a foot note on the Recommended Lubricants page.

Anybody got any bright ideas?

I believe that if you meet either the API spec or the ACEA you are ok. If you were required to meet both I would expect an "and" instead of the comma between!

As our cars have a strong association with Europe I'm more than happy to choose an ACEA B4 oil of my choice and ignore the API spec, and so is my dealer.

I'm using the so-called German Castrol 0w30 which replaced my second fill, Castrol Edge 5w30. After replacing the Edge I immediately noticed less mechanical noise from the engine but the fuel economy is slightly worse. I might add that the original fill was also quiet but economy with it was not nearly as good as either of the two Castrol oils I've used since.

The GC 0w30 costs about twice what I paid for the Edge 5w30 but it's about what you will pay for any of the better oils.

A few here are using the Edge and I still use it in my wife's Getz but I was spooked by the extra mechanical noise so I dumped it after about 6,000km. 

[Paolo5]

Hi Pip,
Thanks for your input here.
Like you I was 'spooked' to hear that some users were 'spooked' to hear extra mechanical noise when using Castrol Edge oil. That is primarily what sent me on my quest to find a better oil.

Pip, I was wondering....
*Do you have any explanation why this could have occurred in your diesel?
(I am assuming that your Getz suffered no such side effect, as you are still using it.)

*Do you do your own changes or do you have an arrangement with a mechanic (to keep your warranty intact) to use the good stuff?

When you say:-

As our cars have a strong association with Europe I'm more than happy to choose an ACEA B4 oil of my choice and ignore the API spec, and so is my dealer.

I am more than happy to go with the ACEA standards for exactly the same reason.

Paolo5

[2i30s]

my two i30 petrol's have a mechanical noise [as described by pip] when the engine is cold, and we use castrol magnatech 5w/30.I've posted this in another thread and i also was sure it was the oil causing this noise and not the engines themselves.  

[marvy]

*Do you have any explanation why this could have occurred in your diesel?

I would hazard a guess you are hearing the hydraulic lash adjusters. These are basically little metal spacers that fit between the cam and the valves. They fill with oil and expand so that there is zero clearance between the valves and the cams. The idea is that as things wear and change due to temperature the clearance between valve and cam is kept at zero. They are very common on DOHC engines.

As they are powered by oil pressure, they often don't work so well when the engine is cold and the oil is thick. They also don't work well when the oil pressure drops. In my previous car ( non diesel ) it was a very good indicator of when the oil was getting low. Also, when I changed the oil (full drain) and added new oil, on the first start there was a loud tappety sound before the new oil filled the oil filter and refilled the HLA's ( about 4 seconds ).

The manual of my old car mentioned that this tappety noise was normal at start up and when the engine was cold. Over 20 years it have had no ill effects however is I mentioned, it was a reasonable indication of oil conditions.

[agentr31]

i know its a bit anal, but when i do an oil change i try and disconect something so that the engine will wind over and not start so the filter can fill with oil first and it can get a little preassure up...

not sure on how i would do this to the i30...

[marvy]

Winding the engine over without starting will not help in the slightest. The engine is still wearing just as much. It's not a significant amount of wear anyway. The oil doesn't go into any of the combustion chambers. You can if you are really worried "pre prime" your oil filter. In other words, fill it with oil before you put in on the engine. In the long run, I thought this was more trouble then it's worth.

[marvy]

I just opened car to check the oil level. There is a big sticker on the oil filler saying that oil must be B4 compliant or warranty my be affected. No mention of CH-4 on the filler. Sounds like any B4 oil with the suitable weight for your local temperature range will be sufficient.

Pip, I was wondering....
*Do you have any explanation why this could have occurred in your diesel?
(I am assuming that your Getz suffered no such side effect, as you are still using it.)

*Do you do your own changes or do you have an arrangement with a mechanic (to keep your warranty intact) to use the good stuff?

Of course my observation was purely subjective and hardly scientific. I was not alarmed as the engine was not "rattling" rather the difference was more like throwing a blanket over it. The reason? I'm assuming the oil flow is better with one, particularly when cold. I'm infuenced by the 0w rating compared to the 5w of the other... but it is all guessing.

Yes, still have the Getz and the engine (1.4) runs sweetly. It's a beautiful engine.

I just take my oil when I have the car(s) serviced at local Hy dealer. With the i30 I do an intermediate change myself.

[MRH130]

As a former Hyundai Service Manager I would strongly recommend Mobil 1 ESP. I have used Mobil 1 since (full disclosure) I worked for them in the 1990s and I have found it absolutely brilliant in everything I've used it in - never had a wear problem in an engine running on it and I'm not what you'd call a sedate driver.

Hyundai (in Australia at least) have an arrangement with Shell, so any Hyundai branded fluids are Shell products. There's nothing at all wrong with that, and it always looks good on your service history to have used as many genuine products as possible!

Magnatec NOOOOOOO! 

[2i30s]

its not a good oil imo,im going to change to another brand,real sooon. 

[MRH130]

No, I recounted my experiences with it in an old thread on here somewhere. I wouldn't put it in my lawnmower. 

[2i30s]

Ive mentioned to my dealers service dept manager that my two cars and my father in laws elantra [same engine and same oil ]all give a tappet or gudgeon rattle for about a minute on start up and he said its normal for a new engine  [multi valve]these days.its the oil and I'm sure of it.5.500kms into a 7.500kms oil change and all three cars are needing 1ltr of oil.nobody else I'm aware of is having to do this.cr4p oil is my opinion.