[Surferdude]

As much as I think we have been sold down river by the minority government, I don't see this as something the forum, with its wide variety of members, all over the world, should be getting involved with.

[Phil №❶]

Then I would urge all diesel owners in OZ to voice their concern to the Federal government. 

[Doggie 1]

Then I would urge all diesel owners in OZ to voice their concern to the Federal government. 

I think that is a great idea if we are not going to be compensated for the tax.
We should inundate our respective Federal Members with complaints and petitions.

[Ugly Mongrel]

but then again, JuliaR did say "there will Never be a carbon tax under a government i lead!"  well, as we all know, she doesnt lead this govt,  the Minority fringe greens do. with just 15% total vote.    sad thing is, based on total percentage of the vote, the Liberal Party won.   bloody preferences..

Ultralights, You need to get your facts straight, you've been listening to too much Allan Jones.

The Australian Electoral Commission website gives the following FACTUAL information from the 2010 election. These are the results, not fairy tale rubbish sprouted by shock-jocks.

First preference votes for the House of Representatives
Labor - 4,711,363 (37.99%)
Liberal - 3,777,383 (30.46%)
Nationals - 462,387 (3.73%)
Greens - 1,458,998 (11.76%)

Even combining the Liberal/National vote (4239770 or 34.19%), they DID NOT win the primary vote in 2010, despite what Tony thinks.

Combining the "minority fringe" Greens vote (3 times the Nationals vote) with Labor gives you 6170361 or 49.75%, which is why our country has a perfectly legally elected coalition government with the support of Independents.

The PM is the leader of the government (despite what Allan Jones says) but as in all coalitions, compromise and pragmatism must be part and parcel of running the show. This is the way our system works, whether we like it or not.

The government should be allowed to get on with the business of governing.  If we don't like the way they do it, toss them out in 2013.

As far as diesel prices go, let's wait and see.

[Doggie 1]

Thanks for the post - interesting stats.
It's not what I had heard from the mouth of Tony Abbott himself (not radio announcers). I've heard him say that Labor did not have the majority of primary votes.
However, regardless of that I can't wait until 2013 (hopefully earlier if one of the independents falls over for any reason) so we can get rid of Gillard & Co. She is a danger to this country IMHO.
As far as "governing" - don't get me started. I recognise that this country is made up of varying political views and that is a good thing. It is a democracy after all. And it would be a very boring place if we all had the same views.
But I have seen govts come and govts go, but I have NEVER seen a govt put us into such serious debt so quickly ( & continuing to do so ) by such bad policy and stupid mistakes. And that even includes the Whitlam govt which was sacked by the Governor General in the seventies.
I truly fear for our kids & grandkids because we are going to be paying for this for a long, long time.
We have had Labor (state) govts and have not had these issues, but this current federal govt is, in my opinion (& obviously lots of others), totally inept and untrustworthy.
All said with lots of love & goodwill 

[Surferdude]

First preference votes for the House of Representatives
Labor - 4,711,363 (37.99%)
Liberal - 3,777,383 (30.46%)
Nationals - 462,387 (3.73%)
Greens - 1,458,998 (11.76%)

Even combining the Liberal/National vote (4239770 or 34.19%), they DID NOT win the primary vote in 2010, despite what Tony thinks.

Whilst I don't profess to be a political guru, I think the figures above give a slightly biased view. As usual, figures don't lie. but they can be applied to an argument out of context.
My understanding is that, as a result of variations in the numbers of voters in each electorate, the major parties, Libe/Nats and Labour were basically stalemated at the end of counting. So the independents' "Gang of 3" pretty much shopped around to see which would give them the best bargaining power for the future.
And in the Senate we are being governed by the Greens who can get anything they want.
So at the end of the day, 11.76% of the vote is controlling the country. To the exclusion of the wants/ desires of everyone else.

[Doggie 1]

First preference votes for the House of Representatives
Labor - 4,711,363 (37.99%)
Liberal - 3,777,383 (30.46%)
Nationals - 462,387 (3.73%)
Greens - 1,458,998 (11.76%)

Even combining the Liberal/National vote (4239770 or 34.19%), they DID NOT win the primary vote in 2010, despite what Tony thinks.

Whilst I don't profess to be a political guru, I think the figures above give a slightly biased view. As usual, figures don't lie. but they can be applied to an argument out of context.
My understanding is that, as a result of variations in the numbers of voters in each electorate, the major parties, Libe/Nats and Labour were basically stalemated at the end of counting. So the independents' "Gang of 3" pretty much shopped around to see which would give them the best bargaining power for the future.
And in the Senate we are being governed by the Greens who can get anything they want.
So at the end of the day, 11.76% of the vote is controlling the country. To the exclusion of the wants/ desires of everyone else.

So true Surferdude 

[beerman]

So by the first preference result nearly 70%% of the country voted for parties who actively campaigned for no carbon tax.

Hows that for a mandate?

Carbon tax, mandatory precommitment , all bad policy on the run.

I dare say the attraction to the carbon tax by the Government is to attempt to backfill some budget black holes made by building tin sheds in schools, burning down houses with insulation and a fibre optic cable network which from reports from those who have it already is living up to the legend of the previous two projects.

There really isn't any point in writing to your local member and voicing your concerns, all you will get back is a letter written by a public servant and a glossy pamphlet about how ace the carbon tax is. They know they are dead ducks at the next election, but they want to stay in Government until the next election, and that means Julia 'raising her skirts' to the independents and greens, at least until they knife her and install Rudd just before the next election.

[Doggie 1]

Very true.
Not to mention almost $100 million to counter domestic violence in Asia (what about Australia????), our latest (huge) commitment to the Eurozone (Greece) following her recent visit to the G20 in France ($68 billion I hear?), her latest commitment to financially support the Afghanistan govt even after we withdraw our troops (???), a huge ex-gratia payment to the new govt of South Somalia (!!!), & on & on it goes.
But we can't even afford to keep open for seven days a week our own RSL war memorial in Canberra for our diggers because it costs too much
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/gillard-pays-for-pollies-perks-but-wont-help-war-memorial/story-e6frfhqf-1226006024570
Or fund a $135,000 three-year program for domestic violence in Victoria because it costs too much.
And today I heard Wayne Goose, sorry Swan (federal treasurer), saying we all have to tighten our belts because they're going to struggle to bring us back into surplus by 2012/2013!!!!!!
Please, give us a break.
Yes, I'm passionate about it. Yes, I loathe our current govt. 

[Dazzler]

Here, here as they say in Parliament.. Charity begins at home.. Calling them "useless" would be flattering them.. at least I can't be blamed I didn't vote them in...

[Ugly Mongrel]

But we can't even afford to keep open for seven days a week our own RSL war memorial in Canberra for our diggers because it costs too much
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/gillard-pays-for-pollies-perks-but-wont-help-war-memorial/story-e6frfhqf-1226006024570

Something to get the facts straight.

http://www.awm.gov.au/sites/default/files/2011%2003%2003%20Funding_announcement_%20media%20release_%20%282%29.pdf

[Doggie 1]

But we can't even afford to keep open for seven days a week our own RSL war memorial in Canberra for our diggers because it costs too much
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/gillard-pays-for-pollies-perks-but-wont-help-war-memorial/story-e6frfhqf-1226006024570

Something to get the facts straight.

http://www.awm.gov.au/sites/default/files/2011%2003%2003%20Funding_announcement_%20media%20release_%20%282%29.pdf

If you're keen to get the facts straight, you'd probably be aware of the huge media campaign that evolved around Australia after the Gillard Govt wouldn't provide the funds, that shamed them into doing what it should have done in the first place.
And even now, the ongoing funds are not guaranteed as they have a habit of saying one thing in the media (for positive PR) and then doing another in reality. There have been many examples of this since they came to government.
The RSL (Returned Servicemans Leaugue) petitioned very strongly before Gillard had to back down and I'm sure you must have been aware that all of this was going on.
The facts are out there........

[Ugly Mongrel]

But we can't even afford to keep open for seven days a week our own RSL war memorial in Canberra for our diggers because it costs too much
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/gillard-pays-for-pollies-perks-but-wont-help-war-memorial/story-e6frfhqf-1226006024570

Something to get the facts straight.

http://www.awm.gov.au/sites/default/files/2011%2003%2003%20Funding_announcement_%20media%20release_%20%282%29.pdf

If you're keen to get the facts straight, you'd probably be aware of the huge media campaign that evolved around Australia after the Gillard Govt wouldn't provide the funds, that shamed them into doing what it should have done in the first place.
And even now, the ongoing funds are not guaranteed as they have a habit of saying one thing in the media (for positive PR) and then doing another in reality. There have been many examples of this since they came to government.
The RSL (Returned Servicemans Leaugue) petitioned very strongly before Gillard had to back down and I'm sure you must have been aware that all of this was going on.
The facts are out there........

db80, My point was that $8M funding has been granted to the AWM and the link in your earlier post is in fact outdated and misleading.

[Doggie 1]

No, it wasn't.
It was one in a series of (bad) decisions made by our federal govt.
According to them, we couldn't afford to keep it open and that is what they said. That was their decision.
It was only overturned after considerable public pressure, but it doesn't change one iota what their original intention & decision was.
Anyway, as I said, it's a free country (thank goodness) and we're apparently on opposite sides of the political fence, but that's all good.
Better still, we can say it.
And I can still buy you a beer if we meet 
It's time for bed in W.A. for us older people so I'll call it a day.
Goodnight.
Dave

[rustynutz]

Three cheers for Julia!!!! 

[Doggie 1]

Three cheers for Julia!!!! 

You're a funny man, Rustynutz 

[Phil №❶]

Quote from beerman

"and that means Julia 'raising her skirts' to the independents and greens, at least until they knife her and install Rudd just before the next election."

They won't wait, they'll put Rudd back straight away, if she does that. 

[Phil №❶]

And here's another great idea,

Create the Malaysia refugee solution without even checking whether it's legal to enforce.

Promise to take 4k of their refugees. Malaysia takes ,,, none of ours, we still take their 4k,,,, and the boats still keep coming.

You could get a kindergarten solution better than this. 

[Dazzler]

At the risk of opening another can of worms... I really get crapped off that this government is taking all the kudos for weathering the GFC relatively well, when it was only due to the previous Governments prudent money management... 

We would be in the same position as Greece if this crowd had been in for the last 10 years 

P.S. I was in two minds about posting this as political debate can get very heated (But I do feel better now) 

[Phil №❶]

It would appear from the amount of feedback that politics is an issue that many have opinions on, as long as we remember that opinions are like armpits, we all have them and sometimes they stink. 

I have enjoyed the discussion and the people here have shown respect for each other, and under those circumstances a little political discussion doesn't hurt. IMO or should that be IMA (Armppit) 

[Lakes]

well, i don't know if this is true or not but i read in the paper yesturday they only plan to tax large 4wd and not small cars. but thats all it had . so just have to wait.
Dazz is ugly Bob a Tasmanian m8?

[Dazzler]

Dazz is ugly Bob a Tasmanian m8?

Apparently    But not a m8 of mine...

[Ugly Mongrel]

No, it wasn't.
It was one in a series of (bad) decisions made by our federal govt.
According to them, we couldn't afford to keep it open and that is what they said. That was their decision.
It was only overturned after considerable public pressure, but it doesn't change one iota what their original intention & decision was.
Anyway, as I said, it's a free country (thank goodness) and we're apparently on opposite sides of the political fence, but that's all good. Better still, we can say it.And I can still buy you a beer if we meet  It's time for bed in W.A. for us older people so I'll call it a day.
Goodnight. Dave

Thanks Dave, I'll look forward to that beer. I bet we're not on opposite sides of the beer fence

My politics are not all that different to yours, Dave. The thing that really irks me is that people are so quick to point the finger and complain when we all know that ALL political parties do the same thing.

As an example, no one seems to remember that in nearly 12 years the Howard government did not raise the aged pension rate apart from CPI increases. This was despite lengthy and repeated representations from senior groups throughout the country. The Rudd government did something about this when they were elected.

My point with the issue of the AMW, was that at least the current government DID something about the funding issues once they realised their original decision was so unpopular.

However, we cannot expect governments (of either political colour) to simply reverse every unpopular decision or we wouldn't get anywhere.  Women would still not have the vote, we would still have a White Australia policy etc, etc.

As far as the Carbon Tax goes, I remember quite clearly the Labor scare campaign before it's introduction, much like the Coalition's campaign now. But the sky didn't fall when GST was introduced and we have now lived with GST for over a decade.

I really believe that when the Carbon Tax starts to take effect and people realise the scare campaign was just that..a scare campaign we will see the same thing that happened with the GST.

AND...that's all I have to say about that

[Doggie 1]

[

Thanks Dave, I'll look forward to that beer. I bet we're not on opposite sides of the beer fence

I look forward to it too 

[Phil №❶]

ugly mongrel

I agree with you and a lot earlier, I made reference to J Howard stating that there will never be a GST.

They're all tarred with the same brush I'm afraid. 

[Doggie 1]

ugly mongrel

I agree with you and a lot earlier, I made reference to J Howard stating that there will never be a GST.

They're all tarred with the same brush I'm afraid. 

John Howard did say that, you are correct. But to keep the facts straight, at least he then took it to the people & went to an election and allowed the people to vote yes or no for the GST before introducing it.
That is the difference. And it is a massive difference. Julia Gillard said there would never be a carbon tax under a govt she leads, knowing it would be unpopular and then changed her mind after she got into power. And she did not take it to an election.
Huge difference.
I wasn't going to comment any more in this thread but I weakened  Couldn't let that go unsaid because that is the fundamental point. One is a democracy in action, the other is not IMHO. 

[Dazzler]

It says a lot for this forum that this political debate hasn't turned into a flaming session..

My last word on the matter is....

I think it would be very hard for anyone to argue that the current government manages OUR money as well as the previous Howard Government did...

Oh, and I don't really have a problem with the carbon tax as such .. Just with all the money wasted on the Insulation debacle and the School upgrades shemozzle and the other similar money pits the Rudd/Gillard Government (I use the term loosely) managed to come up with...

[Doggie 1]

Hey, if we had our own i30 G20 it would be an interesting meet. 

Did you see the other day where the microphone was on at the G20 when Obama & Sarkozy were having a "private" chat....... 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/08/obama-netanyahu-comment-sarkozy?newsfeed=true

[Dazzler]

Will they never learn..  (although it would be so hard to watch everything you say .. it's bad enough on here  )

[Ugly Mongrel]

ugly mongrel

I agree with you and a lot earlier, I made reference to J Howard stating that there will never be a GST.

They're all tarred with the same brush I'm afraid. 

John Howard did say that, you are correct. But to keep the facts straight, at least he then took it to the people & went to an election and allowed the people to vote yes or no for the GST before introducing it.
That is the difference. And it is a massive difference. Julia Gillard said there would never be a carbon tax under a govt she leads, knowing it would be unpopular and then changed her mind after she got into power. And she did not take it to an election.
Huge difference.
I wasn't going to comment any more in this thread but I weakened  Couldn't let that go unsaid because that is the fundamental point. One is a democracy in action, the other is not IMHO. 

Like you Dave, I couldn't resist another post.

Yes, the Coalition did campaign on the GST before the 1998 election and went from a 40 seat majority to a 12 seat majority despite getting reelected with 49.02% of the two-party-preferred vote, compared to 50.98% for the Labor Party. This represented a swing to Labor of just under 5%. Do I see a mandate there??? I don't think so!!!

The Democrats (Keep The Bastards Honest) increased their Senate numbers by two and held the balance of power. The GST legislation only passed the Senate with Democrat support after Meg Lee's (the Democrat leader) had said before the election that they would not support the GST.

Bit of deja vu me thinks.

Hey Dave, where's that beer