TV Aerial Advice Required

AlanHo · **January 30, 2012, 13:39:39**

We have a TV in the bedroom - receiving Freeview TV via an outside aerial. The aerial cable is connected directly to the TV without the need for a booster.

We have a TV in the lounge which is connected to a cable TV box.

After a failure of cable reception for an hour or two last week - "management" has asked me to get the lounge TV connected to the existing aerial so she can pick up Freeview TV as a back-up.

I realise this is basic stuff for you techno guys - but I am not sure what method is best to connect the lounge TV to the existing aerial. I am hoping that I don't need to connect to the aerial itself which will be very difficult to reach by ladder - but the coax cable serving the bedroom can be reached where it dives into the bedroom wall.

Can I just break into the existing cable on the outside wall and connect another one down to the lounge TV.

If so - is a special splitter of some sort required or can I peel back the insulation and twist the 3 centre cores and separately the 3 outer sleeves together - insulate them with tape - and hide the junction in a weatherproof box.

We need to be able to use both TV's at the same time - so I can retreat to the bedroom and watch sport whilst management views her soaps and cooking programmes

eye30 · **Reply #1: January 30, 2012, 15:01:15**

OK here is my suggestion as I have it set up in my house.

Cable from aerial goes into the roof space to a 4 way booster.
Booster is connected to electricity supply.

Separate cable go to the 3 bedrooms from booster to above each room via roof space and passed thro' a hole made in ceiling in a cupboard. i.e. hidden from view, then pluged into TV.

A cable to lounge downstairs goes back out thro' roof and down outside wall and then thro' wall into the room which is then concealed in a junction box on the wall. Short cable from junction box to TV.

I can have all 4 tv's on at the same time and no drop in picture quality.

My suggestion would be to have a booster in bedroom then run a cable back out thro' the wall to the downstairs room.
I would have suggested an outside waterproof box but you will need to put in a power supply to the box.

ps I have tried to run the 3 tv's in the bedroon off one aeriel without a booster and it was OK when only 1 TV was on but as soon as you put a 2nd or 3rd on the picture quality was poor.

pps.
Depending on the age of your aeriel it may be worth getting a good aeriel contractor round to test the signal quality and ask them what they would do. If aeriel OK then you have free advice etc etc.

meehalych · **Reply #2: January 30, 2012, 15:12:55**

This is similar to what I use

eye30 · **Reply #3: January 30, 2012, 15:13:58**

I've used splitters in the past and the picture quality is poor

meehalych · **Reply #4: January 30, 2012, 15:16:58**

Quote from: eye30 on January 30, 2012, 15:13:58

I've used splitters in the past and the picture quality is poor

So, may be the quality of the splitters themselves have been improved or we do have the best ones in Russia

There are 4 TV sets in my apartment

one of them receives a digital signal via a decoder.

eye30 · **Reply #5: January 30, 2012, 15:32:25**

Quote from: meehalych on January 30, 2012, 15:16:58

There are 4 TV sets in my apartment .

What is the picture quality if you have them all on at the same time?

Also, are you on a communal Aeriel?

If so, then they may have been set up with booster

diablo · **Reply #6: January 30, 2012, 15:34:53**

Splitting the signal might be okay if you have a strong signal. If not then personally I'd get an extra aerial fixed on the mast with a separate cable - it won't cost much more than a booster and probably work better.

meehalych · **Reply #7: January 30, 2012, 15:57:16**

Quote from: eye30 on January 30, 2012, 15:32:25

What is the picture quality if you have them all on at the same time?

Also, are you on a communal Aeriel?

If so, then they may have been set up with booster

The picture quality doesn't alter when all of them are on.
Yes, it is a communal Aeriel

Keith · **Reply #8: January 30, 2012, 16:11:08**

My 10p worth.
Aerials become more directional with the more elements, so accurate set up (using a signal meter) is crucial, esp for Digital TV where proper reception over the full spectrum is obviously desireable. With the old Analogue service you got good pics & some less so... this is not the case with Digital. There may also be a requirement to use the correct "group" aerial... usually defined by the colour of the plastic bung in the end of the arm holding the smaller elements. So check that out.
Next... ensure you have the right good quality co-ax... a mismatch in impedence will foil all efforts...
Next... avoid splitters, no matter how good the quality you lose about 3.5dB through a splitter to each leg, this equates to HALF the signal...
Next... an amplifier will amplify everything that goes into it... including noise... so real good connections & connectors are essential. What you are looking to do is have as big a differential (or ratio) between the "noise" factor & the signal level... SNR = Signal to Noise Ratio.

I hope that helps a little guys... in summary.

Spot on directional alignment, correct materials, solid mounting to avoid "flutter", no splitters, no co-axial joints, no amplifiers... ideally 1 lead & 1 aerial per TV...

asathorny · **Reply #9: January 30, 2012, 16:28:21**

Quote from: Ffoxy on January 30, 2012, 16:11:08

My 10p worth.
Aerials become more directional with the more elements, so accurate set up (using a signal meter) is crucial, esp for Digital TV where proper reception over the full spectrum is obviously desireable. With the old Analogue service you got good pics & some less so... this is not the case with Digital.
Next... avoid splitters, no matter how good the quality you lose about 3.3dB through a splitter, this equates to HALF the signal...
Next... an amplifier will amplify everything that goes into it... including noise... so real good connections & connectors are essential. What you are looking to do is have as big a differential (or ratio) between the "noise" factor & the signal level... SNR = Signal to Noise Ratio.

I hope that helps a little guys... in summary.

Spot on directional alignment, solid mounting to avoid "flutter", no splitters, no co-axial joins, no amplifiers... ideally 1 lead & 1 aerial per TV...

OR, inform the household that bedrooms are for sleeping and not TV viewing and voila, problem solved

baroudeur · **Reply #10: January 30, 2012, 16:59:00**

Quote from: AlanHo on January 30, 2012, 13:39:39

We have a TV in the bedroom - receiving Freeview TV via an outside aerial. The aerial cable is connected directly to the TV without the need for a booster.

We have a TV in the lounge which is connected to a cable TV box.

After a failure of cable reception for an hour or two last week - "management" has asked me to get the lounge TV connected to the existing aerial so she can pick up Freeview TV as a back-up.

Can I just break into the existing cable on the outside wall and connect another one down to the lounge TV.

If so - is a special splitter of some sort required or can I peel back the insulation and twist the 3 centre cores and separately the 3 outer sleeves together - insulate them with tape - and hide the junction in a weatherproof box.

We need to be able to use both TV's at the same time - so I can retreat to the bedroom and watch sport whilst management views her soaps and cooking programmes

Staying on topic I will try to answer your questions.

You should not split the cable using twisted and taped connections which will result in signal loss..

You could cut the cable outside the bedroom and connect to a two way splitter which can be bought with a waterproof box for external use. Then re-connect the existing bedroom cable to the splitter and add a new cable to the lounge TV. This may be acceptable if the signal is strong enough and of high quality as quality counts more than strength.
If the signal is poor then you need to use an amplifier instead of a splitter but this requires a power supply via the TV cable from a the power supply in the bedroom feeding through the cable. Usually these amplifiers are mounted below the aerial (masthead amplifier)
An alternative is to use a powered set back amplifier near the bedroom TV set and run a second cable to the lounge TV.

Try Hardy at Stetchford http://www.jwhardy.co.uk/shop/pages/pl_contents.html who sells all you need.

Edit: You could try a portable indoor aerial in the bedroom and extend the bedroom cable to the lounge. Use F type satellite connectors and a barrel sleeve to join the two cables and wrap in self amalgamating tape

AlanHo · **Reply #11: January 30, 2012, 18:42:20**

Thanks for all contributions - although I am tempted to do a codge job in the hope it might work - I suppose I must listen to all the good advice and do it properly.

The location of the aerial would make it difficult for me to get up to it - my middle name is not Spiderman - hence any mods to the mast head are out. Hence I must do everything no higher than about 3 metres.

The aerial cable enters the bedroom through the wall and into the back of a cupboard upon which the TV is mounted. There is a paower point alongside the cupboard so it would be easy to mount a booster inside it to feed both TV's. I assume that I need a dual booster as shown on the Hardy website - useful - because Stechford is only 15 minutes from my home.

I could then drill a second hole through the cavity wall to run an Aerial cable from the booster and back down the outside wall and into the lounge to feed the lounge TV

So will this work OK?

meehalych · **Reply #12: January 30, 2012, 18:51:27**

Why not to drill a hole in a floor instead?
I thought it's only the Russian way to make troubles for ourselves in order to overcome them heroically afterwards.

AlanHo · **Reply #13: January 30, 2012, 19:01:18**

Quote from: meehalych on January 30, 2012, 18:51:27

Why not to drill a hole in a floor instead?
I thought it's only the Russian way to make troubles for ourselves in order to overcome them heroically afterwards.

Are you serious - I would be in a load of trouble if I drilled through the floor to drop a cable down inside the lounge which would be highly visible. No-one can see the outside wall, not even the neighbours, which makes it the best route. In any case - drilling a 15 mm dia hole through the wall is no problem - I have a percussion drill that can do that in no time.

diablo · **Reply #14: January 30, 2012, 19:15:16**

It will no doubt work if you do it that way.

Though round here there is a good firm who I trust who will install a new 2nd aerial and route the cable for £59. Guess what I'd do ?

eye30 · **Reply #15: January 30, 2012, 19:23:32**

Quote from: AlanHo on January 30, 2012, 18:42:20

So will this work OK?

Yes.

I'd go for say a 4 way just in case you decide to go for a TV in another room sometime in the future.

It is the same set up as mine but yours will be in the bedroom rather than roof space.

I take it you will have cavity wall insulation?
So rather than make a 2nd hole and a mess etc you could get a bigger drill bit and make the current hole larger.
That way you you are sure the hole will be in the correct place.

Dazzler · **Reply #16: January 30, 2012, 20:14:54**

A wealth of info there guys .. What you have drawn should work fine Alan. Mast head aplifiers are best but if you don't need one at the moment just a plug in booster/splitter as drawn should do the job..

What a great forum..

Phil №❶ · **Reply #17: January 30, 2012, 21:54:33**

Your ideas will work Alan, I would recommend a masthead amp fitted in your bedroom with 4 way splitter for future expansion. Use Cat 4 cable or better for digital reception & pre fitted connections if possible, as this is where interference can get in.

**Reply #18: January 31, 2012, 04:38:47**

Some good advice there Alan.

Intalling TV antennas (and other radio frequency work) was something I did in a former life.

Your last diagram would probably work quite well although the amplifier might not be required at all. There is zero advantage in having an amplifier if signal strength is already sufficient. If you have a TV/PVR/STB with a signal strength indicator you could use that as a rough guide of the signal strength you have to work with. Another indicator will be the antenna itself. One with only a few elements will not pickup as much as one with many more. Check it out and compare to others around. I have my own house wired passively split to 4 outlets but of course this is not in any way relevant to your situation.

In any case unless you are in a fairly poor area I'd guess that you will have enough to split in half because whomever did the original installation would have erred on the safe side assuming they had a clue.

The ideal place to site a splitter is in the roof space where it is both protected and out of the way but failing that under the eaves in a water proof location or box. Even if you can't get it right up high I'd still put it outside as high as possible. If you do see a way to fit the splitter higher up you then have an opportunity to replace the existing coax (from the splitter down) to the bedroom while adding the extra run to the lounge. I'm assuming here that the current cable is RG59 and probably of relatively poor quality at that. Replacing as much as possible of the original cable with RG6 will almost certainly improve the signal quality at the TV (unless of course you can only replace a few feet). Use a splitter exactly as shown in an earlier post - use no other sort!

If it's too hard and you decide to split within your bedroom it will not be ideal but will probably be fine

but unless it is out of the way in a cupboard for instance having this sort of infrastructure on show would annoy me.

More practically, you will need to identify what sort of coax you already have because you will need to buy f-connector(s) to suit - this is not a one size fits all option. Irrespective of what you already have I'd buy (only) RG6 coax for all the extra cable runs you do because it will have significantly lower loss than RG59. So it's likely then that you will need two different types of f-connectors.

The f-connectors I use require a crimping tool but you should not buy this sort and hope to squeeze them

but instead source the type that "screws" onto the cable. It is imperative that the connector match the cable diameter for these to make the necessary perfect connection. Fitting the connectors can be tricky the first time you do it - make sure you fit each properly and re-do if not 100% happy. These connectors are all no solder or screws etc required. A good design.

At the wall socket end you also have a choice to use f-connectors or not but I'd just match whatever you already have.

AlanHo · **Reply #19: January 31, 2012, 05:07:15**

To get at my Aerial would require a variation of this ladder access - and I am no longer active enough or brave enough to try it

Therefore - after all the good advice above (for which I thank you all) I have decided to first try a splitter in the bedroom cupboard as in my second diagram and use the better quality cable and fittings recommended above. If this results in poor performance - I will replace it with a powered dual booster which are nowhere near as expensive as I was expecting. Note that normally the lounge TV will be receiving cable transmission - so it will be rare for both to be sharing the aerial at the same time.

I am off to buy the materials today - so please don't come up with an even better idea - it's too late.

Dazzler · **Reply #20: January 31, 2012, 08:39:17**

Good luck Allan, your plan is the way to go in my opinion..

Surferdude · **Reply #21: January 31, 2012, 10:15:09**

Good luck Alan. Stay off the ladders.

I have a 3 way splitter from a single aerial in my ceiling.
The signal at the two TV's we have hooked up seems fine and we have added HDTV STB's to both sets with the signal being fine.
The third outlet is in the master bedroom but we've never needed a TV in there.

eye30 · **Reply #22: January 31, 2012, 14:59:53**

Quote from: AlanHo on January 31, 2012, 05:07:15

I have decided to first try a splitter in the bedroom cupboard

#

I'd split outside as then you won't need to drill another hole in the bedroon wall for the cable to downstairs.

AlanHo · **Reply #23: January 31, 2012, 15:13:55**

I inherited the hole in the bedroom when we moved house in 2010. It is big enough for two cables already. I am not good on ladders and didn't want to be fiddling with splitter boxes etc at high level. I bought the bits and pieces this morning and have almost finished the job - just popped in to share a coffee with my wife before going back out in the cold. It's freezing here today and we have had fluries of light snow blowing in the breeze. Fortunately it hasn't stuck.

The only hole I needed to drill was into the lounge - dead easy at floor level. I have just got to clip the cover on the cable trunking running down the wall and fit the end connectors on the cables and and we will be ready for the big test.

It had better work after spending £11 on the materials......

bumpkin · **Reply #24: January 31, 2012, 16:17:10**

The only slight caveat I would have has been referred to already and is connected to signal strength. If you already have a weakish signal then without a power boost the signal gets weaker as you go along the line.

If you connect the upstairs as first in line then the lounge will get a lesser signal than upstairs and the most common error people make with that is to stick a boost in to the socket beside the TV and then feel a bit disppointed that this hasn't helped.

Lester has the right setup, having the boost/splitter combo at the mast with separate cables to each room, if you boost a weak signal at its output you are mainly amplifying the problem.

eye30 · **Reply #25: January 31, 2012, 17:55:18**

Quote from: bumpkin on January 31, 2012, 16:17:10

Lester has the right setup, having the boost/splitter combo at the mast with separate cables to each room, if you boost a weak signal at its output you are mainly amplifying the problem.

Yes with my configeration I have 1 cable into the booster, from aeriel, with 4 individual cables out, to TV's.

I have no secondary split off an individual line as each individual line is dedicated to 1 TV only.

AlanHo · **Reply #26: January 31, 2012, 19:24:29**

All done and dusted OK.

After a hiccup with the lounge TV - found to be a less than perfect fitting of the connector on the end of the cable - both sets are working fine on Freeview with no loss of signal, no pixellation and good audio. We are 13 miles as the crow flies from the transmission mast mainly over rural landscape with no hills or high buildings on the direct line and appear to enjoy a strong signal.

The programmes are still crap though...............

eye30 · **Reply #27: January 31, 2012, 19:47:05**

RESULT

bumpkin · **Reply #28: January 31, 2012, 20:11:20**

Dazzler · **Reply #29: January 31, 2012, 20:41:44**

Good effort Alan.. Glad you got a successful result

Wish ours was that simple.. We have a substantial hill with lots of trees between us and the closest transmitter which is ironically probably only 2kms at the most away

With our set up we pull a similar strength of signal from the Launceston Transmitter which is also behind the hill and probably 100kms away..

Our setup is:

91 element High Gain UHF antenna AND a quality Phased array antenna connected "backwards" via a Diplexer with the combined signal fed through a good quality Masthead amplifier all mounted on a 10 foot tethered pole.

The good quality coax follows a steel cable into the roof cavity (about 10 metre run?) to a 4 way splitter/booster..

Unfortunately because our house is large the runs from that booster to the various sets vary between say 15 and 30 metres..

(fortunately the 30 metre run is to my office and combined with the weak USB tuner I use in there I only get a couple of the more popular channels on the computer) our two main TVS are pretty stable on all channels now (mostly)