[Dazzler]

My Neighbour just came down to tell me they got their first ever water bill today since living in this area (23 years) She and her husband are furious as , like us they live solely on tank water and are not connected to the council mains...

I had a look on the Water Company site and they have apparently "invented" a new connection charge for those in their area who are not connected  to the mains... Annual fee for water "connection" of 100% of the standard annual connection fee that is charged to people who are connected..and 60% of the sewerage connection fee for those that are connected.. In their case about $700

Both of us have our own sewerage systems too...

I'm assuming we will get a bill for the same amount. 

Considering we spent about A$11,000 to put in 2 tanks plus about $800 for a pump and another A$8600 or something for our severage treatment system I think this stinks (pardon the pun)

Next they will be changing us for an estimate of the rainwater we are using 

There is a private water line on the other side of our road  but the council or water authority have definitely not put a water main past our house since we have been here... ( not that we want to be connected anyway..)

Signed Furious (and I haven't even got a bill yet) 

[Shambles]

When you get it, send them a bill in return. Entitle it "personal services provided by my wife".


When they query it, you can say "well, she was there if you wanted her"



That whole thing stinks of opportunism. Don't pay a cent to them.

[Phil №❶]

Absolutely disgusting what they're doing.

You say there is a private water line in the street. Did the water authorities have anything to do with that installation. Does the authority even have a mains pipe in your street. These charges are a mechanism for them to recoup their installation costs for installing mains pipes.

I take it you are not living in a metropolitan suburb, nor did you request connection to their service.

Basically, you can't beat them, so if the send you a bill I'd say to them to come and connect the water and sewerage just to make them do the work. It looks like you'll have to pay, so make them do the work.

Sorry about that. 

[Dazzler]

If I don't pay what can they do..? (cut ff my water) 

I'm thinking of banding together with others on the coast in the same situation (there would be many I suspect)

Phil, We live 3 kms up up a rural road on a 2 acre  block .. the Council/ water authority mains stop a few houses down the road .

Here's a thread you might find interesting

https://i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=1833.msg68468#msg68468

[Phil №❶]

If I don't pay what can they do..? (cut ff my water) 

No, they just add interest to the bill and eventually, they own your home. 

BTW You say the mains stops further down the street. Does it pass you neighbours who go the bill. If it doesn't pass you house I don't think they can charge you as they are unable to supply the service their charging for. That would'nt stand up in court IMO.

[asathorny]

Oh good, so it's not just the British who are subjected to this legallised robbery...   There was a similar case here not too long ago and they had someone on TV attempting to justify it, I can't recall the reasoning right now, but, there were a lot of weasel words as you might imagine.

This guy was collecting rain water from his roof, and I THINK that their logic was that he was using water which, had he not interviened, would rightly be theirs.

Don't quote me on that my memory is total rubbish these days.

 

[Dazzler]

Hi Asa.. yeah there was talk of taxing your catchment a while back but if they try that one they will have a real fight on their hands..

If we get a bill I'm going to try and get one of the TV shows that investigates these things to get involved...

[Dazzler]

BTW You say the mains stops further down the street. Does it pass you neighbours who go the bill. If it doesn't pass you house I don't think they can charge you as they are unable to supply the service their charging for. That would'nt stand up in court IMO.

It doesn't pass our house or theirs.. 

Basically, you can't beat them, so if the send you a bill I'd say to them to come and connect the water and sewerage just to make them do the work. It looks like you'll have to pay, so make them do the work.

I wish! I think they charge something like A$2000 extra to connect you up (if the line was there in the first place) 

[FatBoy]

That really blows goats!

Talk to you local council member, then if they can't or won't help, go up to state and then federal level. They are supposed to work for their constituents, so make them. Make sure you write down when and who you spoke to. Finally, if that doesn't work, go with all the details to ACA or Today Tonight. Bad publicity for the company or the politicians would be bad for their business or re-election prospects.

[asathorny]

Hi Asa.. yeah there was talk of taxing your catchment a while back but if they try that one they will have a real fight on their hands..

If we get a bill I'm going to try and get one of the TV shows that investigates these things to get involved...

Good luck Dazz, will follow this thread with interest 

[eye30]

You need to ask for a copy of the order introducing this charge.

You then need to check that it is worded correctly and does in fact cover a property without mains connection/ sewerage removal and it has gone thro' the correct processes.

If not you need to mount a challenge.

Normally you can do it yourself but if there are a few of you then it may be worth doing a joint action so you are saying the same thing.

Contact your local councillor or government member of parliament and make it known.

Do you have consumer programmes which fight these sort of issues?

I'm sure here they will charge (a) you receive mains water and connected to sewerage system (b) you don't get mains water but are connected to sewerage system.

Neither of above = no change --- but I may be wrong...

[Keith]

Scandalous... no added value from the Water Company should incur no cost as you Daz have created your own water management system.

Ask them what you get from them that they provide...

Unless of course they are working on the principle that there is a finite & consistent amount of water in the world, no more is arriving here from space or whatever, an all existing water goes through some Water Companies filtration / cleaning system at some time...

But if I were in the same position, even here in litigate England I could see the Water Companies having a torrid time in Court making that stick... 

[baroudeur]

Charge for water extraction? 

[eye30]

Just had another thought


Sell any unused freshwater back to them and charge them for getting rid of rainwater which falls on your land

[Dazzler]

Thanks for all your opinions ... If we get a bill I will fight it every way i can.. (I am very mild mannered and easy going until my back is against the wall and money is concerned) I usually win (touch wood) 

[eye30]

my back is against the wall and money is concerned

 

[Dazzler]

my back is against the wall and money is concerned

 

Would you be more comfortable with "pushed into a corner" Lester 

[Surferdude]

Pretty sure it's normal practice Dazz. And surprised you haven't got a bill before.
I've seen stuff on TV about it in the past.
But like you, I'd go down fighting.

[Ugly Mongrel]

Dazzler, does your neighbour's bill have a GST component? I'm sure that under Australian tax law, it is illegal to charge a GST component for a "service" that is not supplied. I'll tell you what happened to me in relation to this GST issue but a bit of an explanation first.

I had a situation quite a few years ago when I refused to sign a renewal of a lease on rental property as the unit complex manager was asking me to pay a $6.50/week yard maintenance component.  (For the previous four years it had been $5.00). The manager told me that he would evict me if I didn't sign.

The manager said that regardless of whether or not I chose to use the service, it was there anyway. I told him he was a tosser as I had no choice about using the service as it had never been provided in the previous four years. That got my bush lawyer hackles up as I had not breached any Body Corporate bylaws and I wasn't going to let him push me around.

I had been in the unit for about four years at that stage and had paid it since day one, but jacked  up for two reasons..1. the Tenancy Agreement stated that the tenant (me) was responsible for the yard maintenance and ..2. the unit management had not done a thing in the previous four years on maintaining my yard.

I ended up taking the wan*er to the Small Claims Tribunal and won my case.  I was awarded a refund of all previously paid maintenance fees and the tribunal ruled that I be given the lease without the service fee and that it was never to be included in future leases.

Now the GST issue. The gentleman who sat on the bench the day my hearing took place was a retired magistrate. He advised the manager that he had quite a lot of experience in taxation law from his days as a magistrate and that by the manager charging me for a service (with a GST component included) and then claiming that GST component back was ILLEGAL if the service was not supplied. The gentleman advised the manager to cease and desist from this practice.

The manager turned white  when he heard this but turned a lot whiter  when I told all the other tenants (52) in the unit complex to challenge the tosser the next time their leases came up for renewal

S0 Dazzler, my advice is go the bastar#s!!!!!

[Dazzler]

Thanks UM I will keep checking my letter box.. The ideal scenario is I don't get a bill, but that is unlikely as I am closer to where the pipe ends than my neighbour who is past our house and behind it..

Some reckon I am tight but I probably shout people at work more than anyone else does and I am happy to pay a fair price for services rendered but not paying for a service that is NOT provided (I will check about the GST)

Edit (no GST Component)

[Phil №❶]

Very well done UM, that's the spirit. 

Dazz, This is a matter of principle, no of being "tight".

BTW, Don't forget to tell them that the I30 club has been informed too. 

[Ugly Mongrel]

Very well done UM, that's the spirit. 

Dazz, This is a matter of principle, no of being "tight".

BTW, Don't forget to tell them that the I30 club has been informed too. 

Perhaps we could organise a " Don't Mess With Dazzler" I30 convoy

[Phil №❶]

Wouldn't be very intimidating would it, (works better with semi's), but it would be the biggest get together in the history of the club. 

[Dazzler]

Wouldn't be very intimidating would it, (works better with semi's), but it would be the biggest get together in the history of the club. 

I've got a semi.. just thinking about it 

[rustynutz]

Down boy, down.....lol

[Dazzler]

False Alarm.. Our neighbour just came over to say the water Authority reckons the bill was a mistake  (I could have told them that) ...

I wonder what would have happened if they paid it.. (I still don't like the wording of their website as regards new connections..) 

[Ugly Mongrel]

False Alarm.. Our neighbour just came over to say the water Authority reckons the bill was a mistake  (I could have told them that) ...

A mistake Rubbish

This is what really happened....

The Water Authority has got wind of the uprising in the i30ownwersclub forum with the threatened i30 convoy in support of Dazzler's neighbour, the downtrodden little man 

The Water Authority have held an emergency high level meeting of their Board of Directors and decided that they would be on a hiding to nothing if the threatened  convoy of i30s arrived at their corporate headquarters.

The fear of the international media spotlight the convoy would throw on their organisation and it's unjust treatment of the downtrodden little man was enough for the Directors to call off the hounds and withdraw their preposterous, inequitable and unjust water bill send to Dazzler's neighbour.

Now all we need to do is find the mole in our midst who gave the Water Authority a heads up on our plans for the convoy

[Dazzler]

Now all we need to do is find the mole in our midst who gave the Water Authority a heads up on our plans for the convoy

...and thank them profusely for bringing this matter to a happy conclusion 

[eye30]

The Water Authority have held an emergency high level meeting of their Board of Directors

Quote:

It was just all water under the bridge