[Dazzler]

Trish had trouble starting her 2.0 Litre Petrol i30 CW on Saturday just gone. It took about 6 goes to get it to start (normally first time every time)

When it did start it was very rattlely (as per the video below)

It was a cold morning (probably got down to 2.0C) but the car is garaged..

I checked the oil (once it had settled it was nearly at the full mark and still looked fairly clean) last service was about 5 months and 4000 kms ago with Castrol Edge Sport 5W-30 oil.

Water Level ok, no smoke from the exhaust or oil under the car..

Trish does one or two  10 to 20 km drives per week although in the last week prior to this she did a 200km return trip and a 100km return trip with no issues...

We have theory .. but what do you folks think??

Did the rattle settle down or was there no sign that it would stop?

[rustynutz]

Sounds like a noisy tappet.....

The 2.0 litre engine uses mechanical valve lash adjusters, not hydraulic lifters, yes? 

[Dazzler]

Did the rattle settle down or was there no sign that it would stop?

It seems ok now Pip.. Initially we were quite worried but I gave it a run a bit later and it seemed fine... (we ended up taking my car to do what Trish was heading out for)

The fuel light was on (but I think it had only just come on), so I put $20 of BP in it and it seems ok now (no more trouble starting and not as noisy when cold) So I suspect dirty fuel or poor fuel maybe . Trish filled up at a Woolworths branded Caltex a day or two before 

Yes Rusty .. certainly sounds like tappets.. 

I wouldn't suspect fuel at all. 

Sounds like hydraulic tappets failed to pressurise which might affect valve opening properly and might account for the starting difficulty. I have no idea what sort of tappets it has.

If something like that it suggests an oil artery blockage or other that affected the flow to the engine top. It's unlikely to be a problem with the oil itself. I use that in our getz and it has never given any indication of not being perfect for the job.

But a blockage in such a young car? Unlikely. So that leaves something related to the tappets themselves or a stuck valve perhaps. A valve partially open could cause a lot of rattle and obviously cause a misfire in that cylinder.

Either way I'd be taking it in with your video but I'm sure you are ahead of me there.

[rustynutz]

 

[Dazzler]

Thanks guys.. Because it has settled down now I was going to monitor it for a while as by the time we go 5 kms to the dealer it would be running as smooth as silk .. I guess the video would help .. Maybe I should just ask the dealer by phone what they recommend at this stage?

[Surferdude]

Geez Dazz, that sounds terrible. I think I'd be talking to the dealer, with the video.

[TrishCW]

Hi guys,
Thanks for your advice, it is booked in for Tuesday.
Till then it won't be going far, I'm just pleased it happened at home and not when I was away the other day.
I did a short trip to the shop today, all was ok no noise.
see what they say Tuesday.

Daz can take it in, more likley to listen to him.

[Shambles]

Wahay! It played for me, here at work


Got to agree with the tappet theory - definitely a hydraulic failing to pressurise. I'd say, if you'd left the engine running for 10 mins, the noise would have ceased.

Daz can take it in, more likley to listen to him.

An Angry Dazz entering a dealership.....

(click to show/hide)

[Doggie 1]

I'd be registering the issue at the dealership for future reference, if needed.
I'm no mechanic but it sounds like a distinct lack of oil flow to the top end.

[komaterpillar]

as said earlier i would be getting the dealer to have a look even if it is to just register the problem for future reference.

hydraulic lash adjusters should not bleed down to the extent where you can hear them in as short a time as overnight. there is definately something going on here, that shouldn't be, i wonder if something to do to with the cvvt has gone astray? although i wouldn't have thought this would have made a lifter noise.

[komaterpillar]

just had another listen and it only sounds like one or maybe two rockers, so this may rule out a top end oil pressure issue because i would think that if there were an oil pressure issue there would be more than one lash adjuster not pumping up. maybe one or two beginning to collapse? or with a bit of crap stuck under the check valve letting them leak down overnight and not pump back up?

[Phil №❶]

Some thoughts.

1. I had a brand new fire pump in my previous house. It was used initially for testing and not for fires. The following year, I had a stuck valve. Oil was as new & the motor had done 1hrs work. Stuck valves can happen any time.

2. Trish's car does not do long hauls or hard work, this can cause build up on a valve stem possibly. I would use a upper cylinder lube Redex etc. added to the fuel to protect the valves.

3. Put 500mls of metho in your fuel every month to emulsify any water in your fuel, as a precaution. Note, don't EVER do this with diesel

I use E10 ethanol for this reason & my 3.8lt Commodore loves it.

 

[Dazzler]

Thanks for all the feedback guys ... (like that picture Steve) 

You've convinced me to get it in for an inspection (can't fit us in until next week - Tuesday was better for Trish than Monday)

The Service reception girl said you haven't had your 15,000 service then.. I said Oh yes we did but not here ..

She said have they had a look at this problem (obviously I said no!  )

Got it done at Hi Tune motors Devonport where my mate works (I supplied the filter and Castol Edge Sport Oil...) at the 12 month anniversay in January at about 8000kms

The engine hasn't missed a beat up to now 

[rustynutz]

Hey guys, pretty sure there's no hydraulic lifters in the 2.0 litre engine.....

Solid lifters, me thinks....

[eye30]

Now here is my thought:

After reading all the posts so far I'd not rule out the timing belt tensioner.

(Is there one in this engine?)

Now here is my thought:

After reading all the posts so far I'd not rule out the timing belt tensioner.

(Is there one in this engine?)

Yes, there are other things mechanical that can make a noise but what will also make it hard to start and then magically come good? That's the question.

[Dazzler]

Now here is my thought:

After reading all the posts so far I'd not rule out the timing belt tensioner.

(Is there one in this engine?)

Yes, there are other things mechanical that can make a noise but what will also make it hard to start and then magically come good? That's the question.

I'm not expecting miracles .. I doubt they will find anything 

[Phil №❶]

Is it still ticking like the video 

Rusty, How would the tensioner cause a ticking sound. 

[Dazzler]

Trish isn't too keen to use it at the moment but the couple of times she has it started fine and sounds ok (thought I could hear a bit of a tick but could be just my imagination) Certainly nothing like on the video ..

Was actually a bit louder than the video when Trish first called me...

[Phil №❶]

I would actually recommend driving it. the more info you can give the workshop, the better. Any damage done will be repaired by the warranty. To me, it's probably a lube thing. Does your engine have pushrods at all. Even OHC can have short ones, I'm not familiar with this engines layout. We had a red Holden 179 bend a pushrod on it's 1st holiday from Adelaide to Brisbane in 1964 EH Hydramatic 1st engine with hydraulic valves. Didn't fill us with confidence, yet they were a fantastically reliable engine, in hindsight. 

[rustynutz]

Is it still ticking like the video 

Rusty, How would the tensioner cause a ticking sound. 

You're asking the wrong person, Phil.....Try Lester...

[Phil №❶]

I knew that, just seeing if you're awake 

Don't know how I arrived at that conclusion, sorry.

I'll re-direct to eye30 

[rustynutz]

No worries, Phil....

I'm gonna stick with it being a sticky valve.....

[Doggie 1]

I'll stick with an oil flow restriction.

[2i30s]

your oil filter could even be faulty Dazz/Trish.    when you started the car did the oil light go out as soon as the engine fired up? 

[Dazzler]

your oil filter could even be faulty Dazz/Trish.    when you started the car did the oil light go out as soon as the engine fired up? 

Hope not (think I used a Ryco  ) I don't think Trish would have noticed..(too late to check now)

When I test drove it shortly afterwards there was no indication of the problem with lights or performance. When she started it to show me after she first heard the noise and it was still a bit noisy the first thing I did was look at the Dash for warning lights but none showing. 

[2i30s]

that's weird,the mechanic you get to suss it out hopefully finds the cause. 

[Dazzler]

that's weird,the mechanic you get to suss it out hopefully finds the cause. 

Thanks Steve .. just glad we have another 3 and a half years warranty