Starter motor not always engaging on first turn of key?

jbh500 · **October 26, 2012, 13:25:51**

Hi everyone, my 2010 i30 CW 1.6 CRDi has been behaving itself fine until recently! It has now done around 8,000 miles and has never given any cause for concern when starting the engine. Recently though, on two occasions, when I turn the key to start the engine there is just a soft click and the starter motor does not turn - just like when you had a flat battery on an older car. If the key is turned back off and starting is attempted again the starter turns fine and fast and the engine fires into life as normal! This is a bit worrying as I don't want it to develop into a non-start situation! Not sure if this is an immobiliser issue or a starter motor / solenoid / wiring issue! Anybody heard of this problem before? Thanks in advance for any replies!

Doggie 1 · **Reply #1: October 26, 2012, 13:38:20**

I am no mechanic, but my six year old Accent does this and I put it down to a starter motor issue.
I keep thinking that one day it will let me down, but as you say, on the second attampt it usually fires up ok.

Shambles · **Reply #2: October 26, 2012, 14:26:31**

I've read of similar problems recently, almost all to do with the battery condition.

Here's a thread on the HOCGB forum, wherein a replacement battery (under warranty) resolved the issue.

http://www.hyundaiownersclub.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?id=5208

jbh500 · **Reply #3: October 26, 2012, 20:22:18**

Hi, thanks for the replies! I think the HOCGB website must be down because the link doesn't bring anything up and going direct just gets an error! I will try the link again later.

The problem happened again today just as I was about to pop out to the post office. Started fine second time as usual! If I thought it wouldn't get any worse than this I wouldn't really be too worried! Just don't want a "no start" at 6 in the morning during winter!

Shambles · **Reply #4: October 26, 2012, 21:45:27**

Sorry, it might be off-limits to guests.

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Have just purchased this Hyundai i30 2011 1.6 crdi just two weeks ago. car started ok that morning but a short time later it would not start. All the dash lights flashing with a ticking sound coming from relay under bonnet
Push started ok but when started ESP off light on when car running. Brought it to the car dealer who refereed me to my local Hyundai dealer. Booked in next Thursday but told as this is intermittent it might not show up.Told mechanic which relay was chattering and he said it was glow plug relay. car was not faulty when dealer mechanic checked this. It did the same thing again this morning started first time and when I started it about 10 minutes later same fault (battery flat) push started ok but with EPS off light on when running. Thinking of getting my money back if this cannot be sorted. Could anyone help me out with this please. No doors or lights left on.

Quote from: HOCGB Technician

The ESP light will come on when the battery voltage has got low. Give them a chance to fix it..

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Did this again this morning except no dash lights flashing and no relay click. went to collect grandchild for school. Car started fine, no lights on. Went to Granddaughters house collected child and when I went to start car car would not start. Push started car . ESP off light on in dash. Paid 10k for this should I return car?

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YES as quickly as you can, These sort of intermittant electrical problems can be a nightmare to find and repair. Get rid of A S A P.

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Have you checked to make sure the battery terminals are tight?

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Also, did they check the charge in the battery and whether the battery was holding the charge?

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Car sorted. Left my car with Local Hyundai dealer on the 27th Sept. Would not start for them. battery was found to be faulty.New battery fitted and car left overnight to check if there was any battery drain. While they had the car in for inspection they adjusted all the brakes as handbrake had a lot of travel in it. This car was not bought from this garage but bought for a non Hyundai dealer. Also got a phone call from Hyundai checking on car.No problems to-date. thanks Hyundai

Asterix · **Reply #5: October 27, 2012, 21:02:36**

Hi

Some possible reasons for this could be:

1. Battery.

2. Terminals on battery not tightend ok, or just bad connection on terminals. (verdigrised/corroded)

3. Bad connection on the starter motor. There's a little thick cable between the relay and the motor on the starter. If not ok, what you described can happen.

4. Ground/earth/chassis cable (whatever you guys call it) from battery have bad connection to chassis and/or engine block.

5. Connections at keyslot.

jbh500 · **Reply #6: October 28, 2012, 10:51:52**

Hi, thanks for taking the time to reply! I was out in the car late last night and parked up after a short run. When I came to start the car I got the soft click, normally it would start second time but I got a second soft click (now getting worried)! It fired up as normal on the third turn of the key thankfully! This fault seems to be developing so I am going to check the items listed in the earlier post, i.e. battery & connections! I'll post back when I have had chance to have a look!

jbh500 · **Reply #7: October 28, 2012, 12:35:57**

Right, I went out to the car today and checked all of the important connections - battery, starter and earths. All seemed fine - the car is only two years old and everything looks brand new. All connections were tight and I checked continuity back to the battery with my Fluke. All 0.1 ohms on the power cabling. I checked the battery voltage and it was 12.51 volts. Cranking, it was around 10 volts. I cranked the engine over maybe 20 to 30 times during the time I was testing and it always turned over fine (if the starter engaged of course). I thought that was a good indication that the battery was healthy. I next clipped the positive lead of my Fluke on the braided cable that connects the switched side of the solenoid to the starter motor itself. I wanted to see if the power was being switched through the solenoid. After quite a few tries where the engine started ok, the fault manifested itself, just a soft click and there was no voltage being shown on the Fluke. This means that no power was being switched through the solenoid at this time. I think that proves the solenoid part of the starter motor is causing this intermittent fault by sometimes not switching the 12V power through to the starter motor itself! Does anyone else have any opinion on this diagnosis? Is there anyting I could have missed? Thanks in advance!

eye30 · **Reply #8: October 28, 2012, 13:40:39**

I'd be back to the dealers to ask them to check it out.

You can let them know what you have done etc and see what they come back with.

Make use of the 5 year warranty.

Asterix · **Reply #9: October 28, 2012, 19:53:30**

Maybe the problem is that you only have 10 Volt when cranking it.

From my time at VW, I'm pretty sure the engine wouldn't start at voltage below 10,5 Volt, the different electronics can't function below that voltage, and thus there's no power send to the starter motor.

If you have a battery charger, you could try to charge the battery over night and see if it still won't turn when fully charged in the morning.

Just a thought...

Otherwise, I agree with eye30, back to the dealer.

eye30 · **Reply #10: October 28, 2012, 21:07:02**

Quote from: jbh500 on October 28, 2012, 12:35:57

All seemed fine - the car is only two years old and everything looks brand new.

Cranking, it was around 10 volts.

May be see if you can get a drop test done on the battery when fully charged and that will indicate whether the battery is at fault.

Phil №❶ · **Reply #11: October 28, 2012, 21:35:45**

Pretty sure it's the solenoid to me. Good testing IMO.

If the battery was at fault, it would always try to turn the engine.

The only other thing I would try would be,

When the soft click is heard AND assuming the engine is cold AND that the starter hasn't recently been engaged.

Keep the key in the start position for about 10 seconds. There should be no response.
Release the key, switch off. TAKE OUT THE KEY
Quickly go to the starter motor and feel with your hand. Is should be stone cold. If it's warm it means that there is juice going through the windings but the starter can't turn.

Either way, off to the dealer, it's their problem really.

jbh500 · **Reply #12: October 29, 2012, 09:19:34**

Hi everyone, thanks for all the great advice! The fault seems to occur every day now at some point, I am going to make sure of my diagnosis and then talk to the dealer armed with a bit more knowledge! I'll let you know the outcome .....

Dazzler · **Reply #13: October 29, 2012, 11:16:52**

Quote from: eye30 on October 28, 2012, 21:07:02

May be see if you can get a drop test done on the battery when fully charged and that will indicate whether the battery is at fault.

But make sure you get your toes out of the way first.. Batteries are heavy (they have lead in them you know)

eye30 · **Reply #14: October 29, 2012, 11:53:45**

Quote from: Roo Dazz on October 29, 2012, 11:16:52

Quote from: eye30 on October 28, 2012, 21:07:02
May be see if you can get a drop test done on the battery when fully charged and that will indicate whether the battery is at fault.

But make sure you get your toes out of the way first.. Batteries are heavy (they have lead in them you know)

jbh500 · **Reply #15: November 16, 2012, 18:32:57**

Hi everyone, thought it was time for an update on my i30's starting issue. I wanted to make sure that I knew exactly what was going on when the starter didn't engage so I hooked up some wires from the starter motor to a couple of lamps in the car. One wire was connected to the low current side of the solenoid and the other wire was connected to the high current switched side of the solenoid relay. Under normal starting both lights come on, the first one showing 12V at the low current side of the starter solenoid and the second light showing that the solenoid has engaged and the high current has been switched through to actually turn the starter motor over. On the occasions where the starter does not engage I only get 1 light on, the low current side of the solenoid gets a 12V feed but the solenoid does not pull in the high current contacts to spin the starter over - the second light does not come on. This proves that the ignition switch and starter relay in the fuse box are operating correctly, leaving just the starter motor and battery condition as suspects. I am pretty sure it is a starter motor issue after this testing, because the battery seems to be fine - if the starter motor doesn't engage 1st turn it will engage 2nd turn and spin over lovely and fast. If the battery was no good I don't think this would be the case. My diagnosis is a starter motor that does not fully engage mechanically or bad contacts on the electrical side. I will be speaking to my local Hyundai dealer about the problem soon, now that I have as much info as I can have. I assume they will check the battery condition first but hopefully I can persuade them to change the starter motor before I have a complete no start! I will post back with any updates .....

**Reply #16: November 16, 2012, 22:38:29**

The solenoid attached to the starter motor does double duty. First it pushes the pinion into the ring gear to actually engage the starter motor and secondly it acts as a heavy duty relay to switch current to the motor itself.

You have effectively diagnosed the problem to be the electrical relay component and most probably contact failure. Nicely done!

jbh500 · **Reply #17: November 26, 2012, 15:46:51**

The problem doesn't seem to be getting any worse, the car has always started but I rang the Hyundai dealer and got it booked in for the 6th of December. The service manager was very helpful and said they would check it all out. I will leave a note with my findings for the technician and hopefully they will just swap out the starter!

Dazzler · **Reply #18: November 27, 2012, 09:56:56**

Thanks for the update .. hope it gets sorted quickly

jbh500 · **Reply #19: December 06, 2012, 16:38:15**

Just picked the car up from the local Hyundai dealer, once again very impressed with the courteous staff and the service I received. They did some checks and agreed that the starter motor needs replacing. They have ordered one up and they say it should be here next week. Once the part is in stock they are going to ring and arrange for it to be fitted. The dealer has asked for the car for two hours to fit the new starter motor but once again have offered a courtesy car without me even having to ask! I'll post back once the new starter is fitted!

asathorny · **Reply #20: December 06, 2012, 18:41:34**

Quote from: jbh500 on December 06, 2012, 16:38:15

Just picked the car up from the local Hyundai dealer, once again very impressed with the courteous staff and the service I received. They did some checks and agreed that the starter motor needs replacing. They have ordered one up and they say it should be here next week. Once the part is in stock they are going to ring and arrange for it to be fitted. The dealer has asked for the car for two hours to fit the new starter motor but once again have offered a courtesy car without me even having to ask! I'll post back once the new starter is fitted!

Excellent service....

Dazzler · **Reply #21: December 06, 2012, 19:50:42**

(there should be more of it)

jbh500 · **Reply #22: December 21, 2012, 19:00:20**

Hi everyone, the new starter motor was fitted today (21st December 2012). The part came in last week but I waited until today to get it fitted as it suited me (and I could have a little i10 courtesy car to play with)! There was a chance the world would end while the car was at the dealers but luckily that didn't happen! When I picked the car up I noticed straight away that the new starter motor turned the engine over much faster than the old one, starting the engine almost instantly. Hopefully that's the end of that little issue!

While I was at the Hyundai dealer I had a little look around the new car showroom, especially at the new i30 estate / wagon. This is the new version of my model and I must say I was very impressed with the style and quality. The price was pretty impressive too, at around £19,500 GBP!

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all!

Dazzler · **Reply #23: December 21, 2012, 19:50:00**

Quote from: jbh500 on December 21, 2012, 19:00:20

Hi everyone, the new starter motor was fitted today (21st December 2012). The part came in last week but I waited until today to get it fitted as it suited me (and I could have a little i10 courtesy car to play with)! There was a chance the world would end while the car was at the dealers but luckily that didn't happen! When I picked the car up I noticed straight away that the new starter motor turned the engine over much faster than the old one, starting the engine almost instantly. Hopefully that's the end of that little issue!

While I was at the Hyundai dealer I had a little look around the new car showroom, especially at the new i30 estate / wagon. This is the new version of my model and I must say I was very impressed with the style and quality. The price was pretty impressive too, at around £19,500 GBP!

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all!

Thanks for the update and the greetings - Best wishes to you and yours as well