Smoke

camerooney · **December 31, 2008, 02:30:46**

Mine has just started to smoke quite badly upon idle. I'm not talking a quick puff either, it seems to kind of bellow out blueish coloured smoke.
Its done it 3 times when I've started it the last few days. The weather has been pretty warm aswell (25c +)

Letting it glow as per normal and have been driving the car pretty easily. Had a 200km trip last week and it was fine.

I've read the other threads where some have encountered smoke upon idle (and the kia ceed thread on another forum) but nothing really like mine.
I've filled up at the same servo since I got the car and I've still got plenty of fuel (just under half a tank).

I'll be booking it in again to have this looked at, and also the shudder in reverse.
Which has progressively gotten worse over the last few weeks. Feels and sounds like my 92 ford laser reversing up the driveway (and that had 300,000kms on it lol)
Its clacks, shudders and knocks.

I'll let everyone know how it goes.
Strange that not many other diesel owners have encountered this.

Thumper · **Reply #1: December 31, 2008, 05:02:10**

Could just be an oily batch of diesel.

If it keeps doing it near the end of the next tank, let your dealer know.

Mine blows a small puff of black soot when first started, then nothing during it's operation.

Dazzler · **Reply #2: December 31, 2008, 08:19:50**

Quote from: camerooney on December 31, 2008, 02:30:46

Mine has just started to smoke quite badly upon idle. I'm not talking a quick puff either, it seems to kind of bellow out blueish coloured smoke.
Its done it 3 times when I've started it the last few days. The weather has been pretty warm aswell (25c +)

I'll be booking it in again to have this looked at, and also the shudder in reverse.
Which has progressively gotten worse over the last few weeks. Feels and sounds like my 92 ford laser reversing up the driveway (and that had 300,000kms on it lol)
Its clacks, shudders and knocks.

Strange that not many other diesel owners have encountered this.

Poor old cam... sorry to hear your probs m8... (like you said neither of them are common - thankfully)

Thumper · **Reply #3: December 31, 2008, 09:20:40**

Just had a thought about this, on the way home (Whilst watching all the idiots for the Summer Nats drag each other off at every light, and speed out on the highway)

Check your engine oil level. Is it lower, normal or fuller than normal?

camerooney · **Reply #4: December 31, 2008, 09:39:18**

Quote from: Thumper on December 31, 2008, 05:02:10

Could just be an oily batch of diesel.

If it keeps doing it near the end of the next tank, let your dealer know.

Mine blows a small puff of black soot when first started, then nothing during it's operation.

It might be the fuel.
I've got a 1/4 of a tank at the moment so I'll be due to fill up soon. Maybe with a new batch of fuel it might go away..

I wish it was just a small puff, but its not unfortunately.
I wouldnt be worried if it was only a small amount (and I can understand why a small amount will come out), but when its prolonged for maybe 10 seconds just pouring out blue smoke its got me concerned...lol

I spoke to the dealer this afternoon and there isnt anything they can do. Until the area rep for my area takes a visit.
Which wont be I'm told until february at the earliest. This will be to check out the shuddering and also now the smoke.

Thanks Dazz.
Yeah I'm starting to feel like I've got a lemon..

0-1300 - shuddering like feck in reverse uphill.
1300kms - clutch replaced
1300-3700kms - small boot leak (which is fixed now thankfully, I believe it was a seal somewhere)
1300-3700kms - still shuddering (even worse now) with a distinctive rough vibrating noise when putting it into reverse, and what feels like the clutch is slipping up steep hills
3700kms - present - smoking like a chimney when started (not all the time,

Bit disappointed really, its a new car and shouldnt have these problems. And to be told that the earliest will be sometime in February to have it looked at.
The dealer said it was possibly a valve stem seal leaking (as far as the smoke was concerned)
But the car only has 3700kms on it!

And just doing a bit of reading about blue smoke from engines:
"Blue smoke is caused by engine lubricating oil burning. The oil can enter the combustion chamber from several sources including ..

* Worn valve guides, or seals
* Cylinder &/or piston ring wear
* Cylinder glaze
* Piston ring sticking
* Incorrect grade of oil .. too thin and getting past rings, or valves guides
* Fuel dilution of the oil, making it too thin.

Blue smoke is often evident at cold start, which can reflect reduced oil control due to carbon fouling deposits around the piston rings and/or cylinder glaze. Blue smoke should not be evident at any stage. "
http://www.neptuneproducts.co.nz/shop/Smoke+treatments.html

Thats the sort of thing you would expect with around 300,000kms on the clock.

So I'm just going to keep driving it, and if it breaks down I shall get it towed to the hyundai yard.

I'm glad that no-one else is having these issues.

Cam

camerooney · **Reply #5: December 31, 2008, 09:43:22**

Quote from: Thumper on December 31, 2008, 09:20:40

Just had a thought about this, on the way home (Whilst watching all the idiots for the Summer Nats drag each other off at every light, and speed out on the highway)

Check your engine oil level. Is it lower, normal or fuller than normal?

Thanks for the reply thumper.
The oil is much lower that what it was. I checked it about a week ago and it was full.
Its now just above half on the dipstick.

Dazzler · **Reply #6: December 31, 2008, 10:24:09**

Hey Cam, sounds like you need to top it up with some fully synthetic oil asap (definitely burning some)...

If it were me I'd also write to Hyundai Australia outlining events so far as just listed and telling them what the dealer said.. That delay doesn't sound right to me (is their service manager useless or something...

)

Thumper · **Reply #7: December 31, 2008, 10:43:46**

Another thought.....

Cam, do you know what a PCV pipe is? And where it is located?

Just thinking, if you've received a vehicle that has a crank thats slightly out of whack/alignment it will leak engine oil through the main seal onto the clutch, causing shuddering and slipping. It will also increase your oil pressure (Through the main bearings) thus spit oil up through the PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) pipe from the rocker cover to the inlet of the turbo.

Being sucked inside the engine and burnt, producing blue smoke.

I would be pulling this pipe off to see if it's oily inside, if it is excessively, it would be in your best interests to demand a new vehicle.

Please do not get me wrong, this is a very isolated case, and far from normal.

Make some noise about it, be civil (Hyundai Australia have treated me fairly in the past, once they found out I have business rego on my Hyundai's) take your vehicle back to the dealer, get THEM to top the oil up. Do NOT do it yourself (Do not give them ANY ammunition to come back at you)

Do it by the book. Express your concerns to the dealer, and then to Hyundai Australia.

Good luck, and remember, there are always a few bad apples in a batch. They are not all like this.

camerooney · **Reply #8: December 31, 2008, 11:20:41**

Thanks for taking the time to get back to me thumper

Quote from: Thumper on December 31, 2008, 10:43:46

Another thought.....

Cam, do you know what a PCV pipe is? And where it is located?

I'm vaguely familiar with it.
I've told dad though and he knows what it is. We'll check it in the morning when we have some more light.

I think you might be onto something though, I certainly believe now that theres a good chance that the smoke and shuddering in reverse is related.

I'll get back to you soon.

camerooney · **Reply #9: December 31, 2008, 11:23:40**

Quote from: dazzling_darryl on December 31, 2008, 10:24:09

Hey Cam, sounds like you need to top it up with some fully synthetic oil asap (definitely burning some)...

If it were me I'd also write to Hyundai Australia outlining events so far as just listed and telling them what the dealer said.. That delay doesn't sound right to me (is their service manager useless or something... )

I'm going to limit driving it.
I think a phone call will be in order on friday to hyundai australia aswell. See what they say about it.

Dazzler · **Reply #10: December 31, 2008, 11:32:55**

I hope it gets sorted soon

camerooney · **Reply #11: January 01, 2009, 01:31:45**

Correction...I think I need my eyes tested again.
Checked the oil this morning and its not down. I probably shouldnt check oil in the dark..

And the PCV pipe seems to be ok aswell.
Back to square one.

TheBunyip · **Reply #12: January 01, 2009, 21:05:42**

Hi Cam,

Sorry I cannot help with a diagnosis. If it stumps Thumper I cannot begin to think why you are burning oil. However I would like to make a suggestion for getting the attention of the Dealers staff. I have found myself treated as an Idiot by so called service staff in various situations far to often to go unprepared when I want to get through to someone "Technical". Once "through" to the right people success often follows. Being properly prepared helps me stay "Firm and Polite". Other wise I might loose my rag in the face of ... You know what I mean.

So I would take a list of the circumstances in which the Smoke Appears and does not appear if any. Hand over copies to anyone at the dealership that talks to you about the problem. If you finish up having to write to Hyundai HQ it will help to be able to have documented the symptoms not just relied on an explanation which can be misunderstood or worse denied.

During Idling.. When started after standing overnight.
During idling.. When restarted after reaching normal operating temperature. After one minute and five minutes switched off.
During Idling after driving a short distance and before reaching normal operating temperature.
During idling when stationary after reaching operating temperature.
Any smoke during your slow reversing might also be added to the list.

Others might be able to add to the list of documented symptoms you might compile.

Oh yes make sure your Name, Registrarion No., VIN no. and date are on your list too. It would help if things are disputed.

I would also add the date you first noticed the symptoms and any deterioration since then.

The list might not prove anything other than how serious you are about getting the problem fixed.

I hope to read what the problem is and how satisfied you are with everything put right very soon.

camerooney · **Reply #13: January 02, 2009, 04:36:50**

Thanks Bunyip.
Excellent post. I'll keep the above saved somewhere as a reference.

It smoked a little this morning, but not too much.
I've filled the car (it was a little bit below 1/4 this morning) so it will be interesting to see if it smokes again tomorrow when I start it.

Dazzler · **Reply #14: January 02, 2009, 11:12:10**

I knew Thumper and Bunyip would be good help... cheers guys...

ras · **Reply #15: January 05, 2009, 21:34:08**

Mine has been doing this pretty well since i got it in mid november.. When i had the 1000KM (well it was 2000KM in the first 2 weeks) checkup they checked it out but as it only does this first thing in the morning they did not notice anything wrong.

Not sure if this is comforting to know that you are not the only one with this "problem".
Another guy at my office has last years model that he picked up second hand and he has never seen any smoke from his in the morning.

I have over 4000KM on the clock now and it seems to do it fairly consistantly in the morning usually it is ok on a full tank but from memory last time i filled up it still did it.

I have not been filling up from the same servo all the time so i dont think it could be the diesel.

I am pretty sure my engine is more noisy than the test car i drove aswell... or it could just be me not being used to it...

I may need to talk to my service centre again an see what they think.

I will post anything i find out.

Lakes · **Reply #16: January 06, 2009, 01:18:02**

ras, how long do you alow your car to idle before you turn it off?

i've never had smoke or notice any, and never had to top up oil between services. 23,000+

LuciferDarklord · **Reply #17: January 09, 2009, 09:26:09**

No probs here - never seen a single wisp of smoke ever. I've seen diesels blow a blueish to whiteish smoke if the compression is low (low combustion temp) or the timing is way out. Possible a faulty sensor could be giving the wrong temp signal etc - a long shot but possible. I agree somewhat with thumper - oil on the clutch could be a possible link here. Maybe the PCV isnt working and the pressure inside the crankcase is building up, causing oil to blow past the main seal and the valve stem seals.

ras · **Reply #18: March 09, 2009, 21:52:51**

Lakes,

Yeah not sure most days i most likely shut it off sraight away, but I dont think this matches up with the mornings it does and doesn't puff the smoke out. I am getting the 7500KM service done this week so i will mention it again and see if they have any more ideas.

I will see if turning it off directly has a connection to the smoke in the morning.

thanks

Lakes · **Reply #19: March 11, 2009, 06:40:54**

Well good luck ras.
just thought i would say i have followed another i30 CRDi a few times while driving company Toyota, and this guy drives his i30 very brisk and uses the horses! and i have never once noticed a puff of smoke at all from his i30 CRDi and i was following and watching close.