[Doggie 1]

We didn't really learn much new, but for what it's worth, this is what I sent to Shell:

I owned a 2009 Hyundai i30 diesel manual for three and a half years and sold it recently with 136,000+ kms. I used exclusively Shell Helix Ultra 5-40 fully synthetic oil in it. I have replaced the car with a GD latest model 2012 i30 diesel with the latest U2 engine and 6 speed gearbox and wish to use only premium oils. I have been told that the Shell Helix Ultra Extra is best suited for cars fitted with a DPF, which the Australian cars are not, and to continue using the Ultra (not Extra). Is this correct? Also, could you please update your website to include the new 2012 & 2013 GD new generation diesels from Hyundai as your recommendations only cover up to 2010 diesels. Thank you. I look forward to your reply. If there is a better oil that I should be using, please advise as I will be keeping this car long-term and I do not believe in skimping on oils.

And this is what I got back:

Yes, you can use Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 in your latest generation 2012 Hyundai i30 diesel.
For models with Catalysed Particulate Filters, we would still recommend Shell Helix Ultra Extra 5W-30.
Also, we are in the process of updating Lube Match on our website.

[rustynutz]

That reminds me.....

A few months back I emailed Castrol re the use of their Edge 0W40 oil in my i30 as it's not an oil that comes up as being recommended in their Lube Reference Guide.

To my surprise I got a personal phonecall explaining that it is indeed suitable but they tend to work on the "kiss" principle so only list the one oil.

He also explained to me that the oil is actually not called Castrol Edge Titanium, it is just Castrol Edge...... 

He also explained to me that the oil is actually not called Castrol Edge Titanium, it is just Castrol Edge...... 

That's odd, it's got Titanium written right on it and the old formulation with that name is presumably different because it has no titanium.

[Doggie 1]

The saga continues.

My car is booked in for service with my mechanic on Friday so today I called in and discussed oils with him.

They use Castrol oils unless a customer wishes to provide their own.

I also rang my Hyundai dealership and was given a different answer again from them.

He said the oil they use is a Shell (badged Hyundai) oil that is bought in bulk but can be bought from Hyundai dealerships in 1 litre bottles only.

It is a fully synthetic 5W 30 low ash - C3 oil. He said he was unable to give me a part number for it.

I questioned the use of that oil when it is designed for use in DPF-equipped diesels (which we don't have) and he said that Hyundai have specified that oil regardless of which Hyundai diesel you drive, whether it be an older Sonata/Grandeur, Santa Fe, old or new i30, etc - the same oil for all.

He also said they are a Nissan dealership as well and they use the same oil in all Nissan diesels too.

I'm not that happy with that actually.

Why use a C3 oil when our cars do not have DPFs?

I want to use a higher quality of oil than normal for the entire life of my car as I do a lot of kms and intend to keep this car long-term.

It is confusing. Some people won't use anything but Penrite, others Nulon, etc and here we have a Hyundai dealership who appear to go against the recommendations of the oil company they source their oil from. 

[Hati]

That would be the same dealership's service department that changed from Shell to Castrol and back in a matter of a few monts. I didn't even bother asking them why when I heard how they talked to the customer in the front of me. Sales department there is A+, the service lot is polar opposite.

[Phil №❶]

They have something Shell at my mob too, the Santa Fe has DPF in Oz, so I guess they can't be bothered stuffing around, bit slack though, so I bring my own. 

It is a fully synthetic 5W 30 low ash - C3 oil. He said he was unable to give me a part number for it.

I'd question whether a 5w30 is a fully synthetic anyway. It's a spec that is easy to make with cheaper base oil.

Why use a C3 oil when our cars do not have DPFs?

You know the answer - it's a one size fits all to save money. Just the same, C3 is used in the same motor elsewhere.

I want to use a higher quality of oil than normal for the entire life of my car as I do a lot of kms and intend to keep this car long-term.

Me too and until I hear better, I'm sticking to the best B4 I can find.

It is confusing. Some people won't use anything but Penrite, others Nulon, etc and here we have a Hyundai dealership who appear to go against the recommendations of the oil company they source their oil from. 

And against their own recommendation for B4 in Oz.

[Doggie 1]

I know I am being a pain on this topic    but I am considering all options and am currently investigating Penrite oils.

When you go to the Penrite website and punch in 2012 Hyundai i30 diesel, these are the two oils that are recommended.

One is a semi-synthetic and the other a fully synthetic oil.

Both comply with the B4 requirement.

Any thoughts from anyone that might help me decide? I need to make a decision before Friday if I am going to buy my own oil.

This is not an area I know a lot about (which is probably obvious).

Otherwise, either my previously used Shell Helix Ultra will be relied upon or the Castrol (BP) as recommended by my mechanic, but I didn't feel as though I got a warm & fuzzy response from my mechanic when I mentioned Shell. 

Thanks again. I just want to get it right at the beginning of my car's life and I wish it was clear cut, i.e. pay 1.5 or 2 X as much for "this" oil and you are giving your i30 engine the best possible protection.

But it seems that is not the case. 

HPR DIESEL 5
Pack Sizes: 1 Litre, 5 Litre, 10 Litre, 20 Litre, 60 Litre, 205 Litre, 1000 Litre
Semi-synthetic high performance engine oil for use in the modern generation of high performance diesel engines including turbocharged. Ideal where this viscosity or SAE 5W-30 or 10W-30 is recommended. Primary recommendation for Land Rover Td5, Ford, Mazda, Mercedes and Holden Jackaroo 3.0L diesel engines and those fitted with hydraulically controlled fuel injectors. Vehicles fitted with DPFs may need to use Enviro+ or Diesel HD as appropriate. Also suitable for petrol and LPG engines and motorcycles.
Key Specifications: API CI-4 PLUS/SL, ACEA A3/B4/E7, MB 229.3, Global DLD-2/3 , JASO MA

or HPR 5
Pack Sizes: 1 Litre, 5 Litre, 6 Litre, 10 Litre, 20 Litre, 60 Litre, 205 Litre
Full synthetic engine oil for use in the latest generation of high performance engines. Ideal where this viscosity or SAE 5W-30 or 10W-30 oils are recommended. Particularly suited for engines with variable valve timing as well as where ILSAC GF-3/GF-4/GF-5 and ACEA A1/B1, A5/B5 fuel economy oils are called for. Suitable for use in many light duty diesel engines, especially those from Europe, as well as LPG engines. Suitable for use in four stroke motorcycles. HPR 5 now replaces Everyday Full Synthetic 5W-40.
Key Specifications: API SN/CF, ACEA A3/B4, Ford M2C-912A/913A/B/153G/H, MB-Approval 229.5, BMW LL-01 Approved, JASO MA1

[Phil №❶]

I used the HPR 5 Full synthetic 5-40 grade. I prefer a 40 grade oil in summer and the freeway and hill climbing that the car frequently does. No complaints so far.

[Doggie 1]

A bit of education courtesy of Penrite:

Diesel oils may also have a European rating called ACEA. If the oil has an ACEA rating of B# or E#(# = number), this designates it suitable for use in a diesel powered engine. The “B” is for light duty and “E” is for heavy diesel (“E” >3.5 tonne GMV). Generally the higher the number, the more recent specification e.g. ACEA B1, B3, B4, B5 etc. 

ACEA diesel engine oils can also have a “C” classification. The C stands for Catalyst Compatible. Modern Diesel engines may be fitted with exhaust catalysts or a Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF).

Generally the higher the number, the more recent specification e.g. ACEA B1, B3, B4, B5 etc. 

Just to add: more recent should not be taken as "better" but just more recent. Stick to B4. B5 is an "enviro" spec. that offers longer change intervals and better economy. Better economy might be at the expense of lubrication as they are often at the thinner end of the viscosity band.

I have nothing to say about Penrite other than not a lot of real information is available. Mind you that covers all oil companies. I probably would pick the non-diesel (E7) spec though.

[Asterix]

I must say I don't understand your hunt for the best oil.

I also want to apply the best oil for my engine, but at the end of the day, you have no idea of wether the xx or yy brand is the better.

As long as you don't buy the cheap stuff in the supermarket, I don't think you or your car will notice the difference from XX or YY as long as you buy the best of one of the known brands.

[beerman]

I must say I don't understand your hunt for the best oil.

I also want to apply the best oil for my engine, but at the end of the day, you have no idea of wether the xx or yy brand is the better.

As long as you don't buy the cheap stuff in the supermarket, I don't think you or your car will notice the difference from XX or YY as long as you buy the best of one of the known brands.

My car knows its getting Mobil 1 and thanks me every chance it gets.....

I must say I don't understand your hunt for the best oil.

I also want to apply the best oil for my engine, but at the end of the day, you have no idea of wether the xx or yy brand is the better.

As long as you don't buy the cheap stuff in the supermarket, I don't think you or your car will notice the difference from XX or YY as long as you buy the best of one of the known brands.

My car knows its getting Mobil 1 and thanks me every chance it gets.....

I assume you mean the 0w40. It's going to be my next fill, first time try. I'm sure I won't notice the difference from German Castrol 0w30 let alone the car.

[beerman]

Yep 0w40. The oil thing just got too hard, so I went for Mobil 1. Getting it off Ebay it is around what you would pay for the others anyway. Since I couldn't find the German Castrol, I went for that.

[Doggie 1]

I must say I don't understand your hunt for the best oil.

I also want to apply the best oil for my engine, but at the end of the day, you have no idea of wether the xx or yy brand is the better.

As long as you don't buy the cheap stuff in the supermarket, I don't think you or your car will notice the difference from XX or YY as long as you buy the best of one of the known brands.

My car knows its getting Mobil 1 and thanks me every chance it gets.....

That's what we like to see, a grateful car. 

[Doggie 1]

OK, I've been doing a bit of research into oils this week and have spoken quite in depth to my own mechanic who was telling me that C3 oils do cover B4 spec.

This also seemed to back up what Morley Hyundai are doing so I did some digging and ended up talking to one of the technical people at Castrol, who has been in the oil industry for donkey's years.

His name was Bruce (if anyone else wants to chat with him) and he was most helpful.

So it turns out that it is a change in the regulations governing how they are allowed to advertise their products.

He explained about how the C3 and B4, etc are European specifications and that their C3 oil also meets B4 criteria and both designations used to be displayed on the packaging, but since the rules were changed they are no longer allowed to do that and it says only that it conforms with either C3 or B4, etc.

However, the oil has not changed in its formulation; it is exactly the same oil as before and it still meets B4 specification, but it's just that they aren't now allowed to put the B4 on the packaging.

So in short, a C3 can be used for both DPF and non-DPF cars because it meets both criteria, whereas if an oil only meets B4 (and not C3) then it can only be used in a non-DPF car. And as we already knew, it's about the cleaning of deposits that can clog the DPF which is very expensive to replace.

We then discussed different brands of oils and it turns out that he worked at Shell for twenty years before he moved over to Castrol and he said he could say nothing bad at all about the B4 Shell oil that I used in my previous FD i30 and also used at this latest service in my new GD i30.

He said that as long as I stay away from the "backyarders" (I didn't ask him which companies he considered fell into that category) then either Shell or Castrol were both very good oils.

He said the Shell Helix Ultra is perfect for my car because it doesn't have a DPF and that if I chose the appropriate Castrol oil, it too would be a perfect choice of oil for my car. And by using a C3 oil they guarantee that it covers B4 specification and are constantly in talks with many vehicle manufacturers about this to ensure they are fully covered.

He said that this is why Hyundai would authorise their dealerships to use a C3 oil even though their own handbook specifies C3 in DPF-equipped cars and B4 in non-DPF-equipped cars. It is the same oil if C3.

I hope this clears it up a bit, but as I said, I found him very helpful and he would be happy to talk to anyone who contacted their technical enquiries section.

[Phil №❶]

I have a vague recollection of Pip saying C3 is ok in non DPF too, but due to the slightly different formula it's not quite as good as B4, I'd look it up but I'm going  Had a big day digging a tunnel under the concrete driveway.

He said that this is why Hyundai would authorise their dealerships to use a C3 oil even though their own handbook specifies C3 in DPF-equipped cars and B4 in non-DPF-equipped cars. It is the same oil if C3.

I hope this clears it up a bit, but as I said, I found him very helpful and he would be happy to talk to anyone who contacted their technical enquiries section.

Sorry, but I remain unconvinced even given that Bruce will know more about it than I.

If C3 = B4 then why isn't B4 superceded by C3? C3 has to be a compromise because some of the stuff they put in to aid lubrication (and meet B4) is the same stuff that has to be reduced to prevent soot.

I'm not suggesting that every C3 oil is necessarily inferior to every B4, just that it's harder to achieve (or exceed) B4 while claiming C3 also.

And a P.S., I mentioned arse covering (by others) in another thread but I'll add here that the differences in one (good) oil to another might be academic anyway. And I did ask here somewhere whether C3 might prevent EGR and inlet manifold clogging and might therefore be a good thing for reasons other than DPF clogging.

Who knows?

[Phil №❶]

He said that this is why Hyundai would authorise their dealerships to use a C3 oil even though their own handbook specifies C3 in DPF-equipped cars and B4 in non-DPF-equipped cars. It is the same oil if C3.

I hope this clears it up a bit, but as I said, I found him very helpful and he would be happy to talk to anyone who contacted their technical enquiries section.

Sorry, but I remain unconvinced even given that Bruce will know more about it than I.

If C3 = B4 then why isn't B4 superceded by C3? C3 has to be a compromise because some of the stuff they put in to aid lubrication (and meet B4) is the same stuff that has to be reduced to prevent soot.

I'm not suggesting that every C3 oil is necessarily inferior to every B4, just that it's harder to achieve (or exceed) B4 while claiming C3 also.

Yeah,

That's the bit I remember from a long time ago,  Pip.

You have a good memory Phil.

It's worth acknowledging that if the engines are the same except one is sans DPF then it stands to reason that if C3 is good for one it will be equally good for the other.

The only question is whether a B4 might be even better if the DPF is not considered. Is this not from where we come?

[Doggie 1]

Pip, because of your understanding of this subject I'd love you to talk to Bruce.
I think that what he was saying is that for quite some time they had an oil that met C3 & B4 and they were then no longer able to advertise that fact, so then it became a C3 oil.
But it was the same oil.
The formula of that oil was not changed, which is why they are saying that it is perfectly OK to use C3 in a non-DPF car.
The engines in DPF & non-DPF equipped cars are the same. It is just the soot build up in the DPF that differentiates them.
So if the oil company and the manufacturer both recommend a C3 oil because it incorporates B4, then I guess the question posed is, was the earlier B4 only oil (i.e. before C3 was even thought of), "better" than the one it was superseded by, which was C3/B4.
Am I thinking logically here?

[Phil №❶]

If there is such an oil that meets C3 & b4 then that in itself represents a new ball game for oils doesn't it. Other manufacturers can't do it and therefore categorise their oils accordingly.

This oil should be called D5 oil, which would immediately clarify this discussion ie meets or exceeds C3 & B4 spec.

However, if Hy use C3 in their B4 engines it can't be bad for them. Remember, what they're trying to alter, the ash, is caused by the final act of combustion, not all the many other cycles of lubrication, where the oil isn't burned.