[eye30]

http://worldwide.hyundai.com/WW/Corporate/News/News/DF_WW_GLOBALNEWSVIEW_130603_03.html?testValue=DF_WW_RD_GLOBALNEWS&title=DF_WW_GLOBALNEWSVIEW_130603_03&Row=422&totalRow=&selx2=

 Hyundai Motor Company has today delivered the first of its assembly line-produced ix35 Fuel Cell vehicles to the City of Copenhagen in Denmark.

The ix35 Fuel Cell is equipped with a 100 kW (136 ps) electric motor, and can reach a maximum speed of 160 km/h. Two hydrogen storage tanks, located between the vehicle’s rear axle, with a total capacity of 5,64 kg, enable the vehicle to travel a total of 594 km on a single fuelling

The 15 ix35 Fuel Cell units are the first hydrogen-powered vehicles manufactured on a production line to be introduced in Europe.

[Dazzler]

Thanks Lester...

Would be interesting to drive one to see how they feel. No mention of a refuelling cost comparison...

[bryand]

About a year ago a company on my uni's Science Park delivered several hydrogen fuel cell taxis for the London Olympics.
The technology seems to be the way to go so I thought 'Yeah great but where is my nearest hydrogen station?'.
Turns out I walk past it every day on my way home from work!
The next nearest one is over 100 miles away!

[Dazzler]

About a year ago a company on my uni's Science Park delivered several hydrogen fuel cell taxis for the London Olympics.
The technology seems to be the way to go so I thought 'Yeah great but where is my nearest hydrogen station?'.
Turns out I walk past it every day on my way home from work!
The next nearest one is over 100 miles away!

Any idea of cost per kilogram (I suppose I could google it!) 

Edit: Couldn't find a definitive answer easily but this site is interesting

http://heshydrogen.com/hydrogen-fuel-cost-vs-gasoline/

[Phil №❶]

Great idea, but hydrogen is extremely difficult to store effectively. The trick is to free the gas from nice, safe, water, but there is no effective way to do this in the volumes required for car driving. There are many examples of this on YT, but a lot of hoaxes too.

[The Gonz]

The trick is to free the gas from nice, safe, water ...

And that process is bound to cost as much in energy as will be expended in propelling the car, since combustion will be the recombination of hydrogen with oxygen!

[Phil №❶]

Are you familiar with the late Stanley Meyer's work, Gonz

He had patents approved for his inventions & to get a patent, you have to demonstrate that your invention works, don't you.

[The Gonz]

Are you familiar with the late Stanley Meyer's work, Gonz

Hard to reconcile his apparent violations of a couple of fundamental laws of thermodynamics and conservation of energy, but I'm not suggesting it can't be done, just that there will always be an energy cost with any fuel proposal.

No different from electric vehicles shifting the carbon problem from exhaust pipe to power station chimney. Hydroelectric is better, which is why I do believe in electric as a way to find large scale green solutions eventually.

Hydrogen ... I need more time to understand how this isn't just the next way for the oil companies to continue their control of the market.

[Phil №❶]

 

Even if it were possible, filling up your car with water and driving it without paying taxes and fees to someone would simply not be allowed.

I like to dream though. 

Without companies, including Hyundai and creative inventive technicians working at solving the issues with storage of hydrogen in vehicles, the problems expressed in these posts will remain issues which will cause people to discount the use of hydrogen as a fuel source.

As for the energy used to produce hydrogen, I prefer to keep an open mind. 

Here are some thoughts:
Sustainable electricity can be a reality for countries such as Australia.  Our household has enough solar on our roof to balance out the power we use. The investment was a little over $10 000, where 24 months ago it would have been double that. This sort of approach can make a real difference to sustainable power production. 

I'm not saying that home production of hydrogen is a solution, but use of sustainable electricity and other methods to produce hydrogen can be done, particularly in countries such as Australia.  The development of technology that produces hydrogen at the point of use has other added benefits when it comes to delivery of fuel where it is consumed.  Think of the reduction in the number of fuel tankers on our roads.  Notice I'm saying reduction.

Hey, I might be off my rocker, but we need creative thinking for solutions that will take us into the future.  A bit of Googling will produce a wealth of information about research in the area of hydrogen production. I found this gem "Certain photosynthetic microbes produce hydrogen from water in their metabolic activities using light energy."  Just try a Google search and read to your hearts content.

The world needs to think outside the square and get away from the mode of thinking that to do something different requiring energy use means burning fossil fuel.  The only ones who benefit from this sort of approach are the fossil fuel producers who cry poor the minute someone asks them to reduce carbon emissions.

I could go on but I won't. I know it's Sunday, but I don't want to make this a sermon.  I wish I was younger, as the world in the next 50 years is going to see some exciting developments.

[Phil №❶]

I agree, there are some great developments and opportunities taking place.

I am a huge advocate of hydrogen as a fuel source, but the difficulties of liberating it efficiently and storing it safely are enormously challenging.

The prospect of living on a planet where the means to manufacture product and travel with little or no pollution is exciting. Imagine the measurements of pollutants in the air reported as going down, instead of steadily increasing, sounds too good to be true.

Pity about the filthy nuclear pollution which won't go away.

[The Gonz]

I don't see the sermon, just a sharing of an exciting vision for our future.

[Phil №❶]

  Again. 

[Dazzler]

  an interesting thread..

My Hybrid isn't plug in so most of the 3 litres per 100 km's my car saves over a conventional Camry is self generated (so not using fossil fuels even indirectly)

It is great to live in Tassie where a great majority of our power is generated by Hydro, Wind and now solar...  

[Surferdude]

Meh.
Sir Joh Bjelke-Petersen, former Premier of the great State of Queensland had this all solved over 30 years ago with the Horvath Hydrogen powered car. 

By 1979, Stephen had developed the prototype for a car powered through fusion-enhanced hydrogen burn as part of his ongoing research into alternative fuel sources. When the then Queensland Premier, Sir Joh Bjelke-Petersen learned of the project, he invited Stephen to display his work publicly. Unfortunately, Sir Joh's foresight to bring about a pollution free hydrogen economy has not eventuated as yet.

As a result, an announcement was made which put Stephen in an awkward position, since he knew his work was incomplete and he had never wanted to promote the "hydrogen car" project as a finished product.

Read the full story here.

http://www.stephenhorvath.com.au/

[Dazzler]

Thanks Trev, very interesting (hope he gets a result before he leaves the planet) 

[beerman]

If we switch to water where is all this water going to come from?

It wasn't that long ago that Queensland was dangerously close to running out of water for drinking.

Sure you can use recycled water, but what do you do when the dams run dry, if your recycled water is driving your car fleet?

[Dazzler]

If we switch to water where is all this water going to come from?

It wasn't that long ago that Queensland was dangerously close to running out of water for drinking.

Sure you can use recycled water, but what do you do when the dams run dry, if your recycled water is driving your car fleet?

  ...and have you seen the price of bottled water lately 

[beerman]

Yes, stupid isn't it.

There is an article in this month's Danish Motorist's Magazine, describing the project.

The cost of each car is 950.000 DKr + Vat and taxes. (127000 Euro's, 181000 Aussie $)

The car will run aprox. 600 km on 5,6 kg's of hydrogen. This will cost 560 DKr. (75 Euro, 107 Aussie $).

/Jakob

[Phil №❶]

If we switch to water where is all this water going to come from?

The ocean, perhaps.

[Dazzler]

There is an article in this month's Danish Motorist's Magazine, describing the project.

The cost of each car is 950.000 DKr + Vat and taxes. (127000 Euro's, 181000 Aussie $)

The car will run aprox. 600 km on 5,6 kg's of hydrogen. This will cost 560 DKr. (75 Euro, 107 Aussie $).

/Jakob

At that cost it is an expensive exercise! How can they justify it.. maybe 3 times the cost with limited if any savings in running costs?

an interesting thread..

My Hybrid isn't plug in so most of the 3 litres per 100 km's my car saves over a conventional Camry is self generated (so not using fossil fuels even indirectly)

It is great to live in Tassie where a great majority of our power is generated by Hydro, Wind and now solar...

Interestingly, my electricity supplier (Momentum) is a Tasmanian based company that uses hydro electricity.  Now that I have my own solar on the roof, I'm adding to this non-carbon electricity this company delivers to customers.

So, Dazz, I'm a Crow Eater with Tas connections.

[Dazzler]

[Surferdude]

If we switch to water where is all this water going to come from?

It wasn't that long ago that Queensland was dangerously close to running out of water for drinking.

Sure you can use recycled water, but what do you do when the dams run dry, if your recycled water is driving your car fleet?

Look. Up in the sky. It's a bird. It's a plane. No it's rain, rain and more rain.

http://www.previous.seqwater.com.au/public/dam-levels

[beerman]

If we switch to water where is all this water going to come from?

The ocean, perhaps.

Have you seen the cost of desalination

[rustynutz]

We have a desal plant down here we're not using....

[Phil №❶]

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