[rustynutz]

STEPHEN JOHNSON
AAP
November 06, 2013

SOFTWARE giant Microsoft says the Abbott government should reconsider its national broadband network (NBN) policy.
The former Labor government's fibre-to-the-home plan is superior to the coalition's cheaper policy of running optical fibres to street exchanges, Microsoft Australia managing director Pip Marlow says.

Microsoft argues that a fibre-to-the home NBN would deliver faster speeds than the coalition's hybrid optical fibre and copper cable program.

"Ultimately, if you don't get fibre to the home, the biggest impact really is the upload speeds," she told AAP at a Committee for Economic Development of Australia event.

Microsoft is lobbying communications minister Malcolm Turnbull and other government members, Ms Marlow said.

"We're encouraging the government to be looking at all the options and really understanding how businesses, how schools, how individuals will be using this technology," she said.

"We think that needs to be looked at."

[Keith]

Who would own and provide the fibre termination equipment inside the customer premises Rusty?

[rustynutz]

Can't help you with that, Keith....Maybe Aussie Keith can answer it.... 

[eye30]

Here i understand bt have 2 systems.

they do fibre to house but is limited.

The majority is fibre to cabinet then the current copper wire from the cabinet to the house, i.e. down the current telephone wire.

Now they advertise speeds will increased.
Ok i say yes to the cabinet but then you have the old copper wire to the house.

Why not just do all fibre to the house!

[asathorny]

It's a semantic argument really...   I have BT superfast broadband.  Now I don't do all the 'naughty boy' big downloads I used to many years ago, but the little that I do is often no faster than regular broadband speed since it matters not one iota what your test speed is, when the place you downloading from throttle you back to save bandwidth for there other users.

I have not had my server up n running for years now, cos I am not a naughty boy anymore, but when I did I also throttled back down loaders.

So, if you don't have super-fast broadband don't be too upset, your not missing to much.    I have to say tho, when I started down this route with a 9.6 MODEM, well, things have speeded up a tad since then....    Back then you'd have to leave it connected all night (roxbox, for those in the know) to download a dozen or so Floppy disks.

 

[AlanHo]

I have 60 MB Virgin media cable broadband but the connection to the house is copper wire and not fibre.  Connection from the exchange to the box just up the street is fibre.

They upgraded me recently from 20 MB to 60 MB for free and I usually get more than 55 MB download and 2.5 MB upload.

I just did a test........



I must admit that the only time I am aware that the speed is faster than my old 20 MB connection is when I get a big update download from Microsoft or other software. It is wasted on me because I don't watch web TV or videos and don't use a Skype or similar video stream.

[Aussie Keith]

http://nbnmyths.wordpress.com/fraudband/



That's cable with the old slower modem. I've capped it at 30Mbps since the modem runs out of steam but that's about as good as it gets here at present. The fraudband won't even be able to do that. BT (Big Tony) will soon discover his fraudband won't do what he says and he can't meet the targets he set out either. And the man who invented the internet in Oz knows it too.

[Aussie Keith]

I have 60 MB Virgin media cable broadband but the connection to the house is copper wire and not fibre.  Connection from the exchange to the box just up the street is fibre.

They upgraded me recently from 20 MB to 60 MB for free and I usually get more than 55 MB download and 2.5 MB upload.

I just did a test........



I must admit that the only time I am aware that the speed is faster than my old 20 MB connection is when I get a big update download from Microsoft or other software. It is wasted on me because I don't watch web TV or videos and don't use a Skype or similar video stream.

How far are you from the box? And how many distribution points are there round the neighbourhood?

[AlanHo]

How far are you from the box? And how many distribution points are there round the neighbourhood?

220 metres and don't have a flippin' clue

[Keith]

That sounds much to far from a distribution point on VM Alan?

High frequency losses along a transmission line that length would be prohibitive.

It may be that far to your local optical hub but I'd bet your local connection is less than 150 Mtrs away.

[Phil №❶]

I have 60 MB Virgin media cable broadband but the connection to the house is copper wire and not fibre.  Connection from the exchange to the box just up the street is fibre.

They upgraded me recently from 20 MB to 60 MB for free and I usually get more than 55 MB download and 2.5 MB upload.

I just did a test........



I must admit that the only time I am aware that the speed is faster than my old 20 MB connection is when I get a big update download from Microsoft or other software. It is wasted on me because I don't watch web TV or videos and don't use a Skype or similar video stream.

Did the same test, Alan, running at 25% of your current speeds. 

[Aussie Keith]

How far are you from the box? And how many distribution points are there round the neighbourhood?

220 metres and don't have a flippin' clue

Ergo the performance. Here in Oz the dilemma with FTTN is the copper. We will need many distribution points all of which require power. In subdivisions in the past 20 years, RIM devices (remote integrated multiplexer) were installed to minimise the amount of copper required (cheap bastards). These are a pair gain system which means multiple voice circuits can utilise the same pair of copper wires. To do this effective bandwidth is reduced. Fine for voice, not good for data. This is why ADSL was not available in my area for a long time.

http://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/rim_and_pair_gain_faq

So to install the FTTN, additional copper will need to be installed (2 pairs per connection) plus the distribution points at about 500m intervals to ensure decent speeds. Fibre is needed to connect the backhaul anyway. And the distribution points are not passive like much of the FTTP street infrastructure. So each of these FTTN distribution points is going to require power. And they are going to do this nation wide... unlikely.

Moving on to maintenance costs, here in the north where bikies are afraid, the weather significantly affects copper degrading network performance. Any time we get decent rain, the pits fill up and we need Telstra to come out and re terminate everything so it works properly again. More $$$. Fibre is much more resistant to these sorts of defects.

Any business case needs to look at total cost of ownership over its expected lifetime, not just the cap cost to deploy. FTTP is the only logical answer to this discussion.

[Phil №❶]

I haven't commented at all in this thread because I simply don't understand all of what is written, but I have to say that not proceeding with the NBN IS A MISTAKE, IMO. It's like paying to have your house painted and using cheap paint, to save a few bucks, huge mistake.

[AlanHo]

That sounds much to far from a distribution point on VM Alan?

High frequency losses along a transmission line that length would be prohibitive.

It may be that far to your local optical hub but I'd bet your local connection is less than 150 Mtrs away.

The control paaaanel boxes are definitely 220 metres away along the main road.

However - I just came back from a walk to the shops and there are two large manhole covers marked CA TV set in the pavement at the end of our road only 30 metres from our house. Perhaps the termination is there.

The buried cable that comes from the road and to the side of the house is actually two cables moulded side by side, one bigger in dia than t'other. One is for cable TV and the other for the telephone and broadband. They are quite chunky coax cables - much larger than the BT telephone wire that comes to the house (but which is unused).

[Keith]

I can probably find out Alan if I know the Postcode, in my former life I was working for VM.
The slot-boxes you refer to are similar to the ones AK refers to that flood in Aussie when it rains heavily, simple cross connect junctions for the multi-pair telephony cables and in some the connection point for the HFC network.

[AlanHo]

I can probably find out Alan if I know the Postcode, in my former life I was working for VM.
The slot-boxes you refer to are similar to the ones AK refers to that flood in Aussie when it rains heavily, simple cross connect junctions for the multi-pair telephony cables and in some the connection point for the HFC network.

B91 1DD

[Keith]

OK, there are just 4 active HFC accounts in that Postcode, none of which are longer than 115mtrs

There is just one cable >200 mtrs in that Postcode but it is not currently active.