[constipated]

Some advice please:

My car had a flat tyre on the L front tyre. Completely flat but I didn't initially notice. Drove it up from the street kerb outside my house, up my driveway about 20m. Could tell something was very wrong. Went out to look and tyre was completely flat. Tyre was scrubbing all the way up the driveway. Dreaded screw in it.

Replaced with spare.

I decided to use a repair kit from Supercheapauto with rubber plugs and rubber cement on it. It worked well. Tyre maintained 40 psi for most of the week.

The spare appeared to drive well for the week I had it on.

I then put the original tyre back on the L front. The tyre has maintained pressure with no issue.

However now I am noticing that the car is pulling to the left. I did not notice this before the puncture or with the spare ( I think). I did have a 4 wheel alignment done maybe 10 months ago. There is no vibration through the steering wheel to suggest misalignment.

My question is could the short drive on the tyre whilst flat knock out the wheel alignment causing the drifting to the left, or could it be a tyre issue. Don't want to pay for a wheel alignment if it's only a tyre issue?

[Phil №❶]

I would NEVER put a repaired tyre on a vehicle, especially as a steer tyre. It should be relegated to a spare. 

[constipated]

I would NEVER put a repaired tyre on a vehicle, especially as a steer tyre. It should be relegated to a spare. 

Well if I adopted that strategy I'd have too many spares.

Someone is littering our streets with screws and nails.

In 2 cars, we've had 3 tyre punctures in the last 12 months. I've probably had 6 or 7 in the last 8 years. All repaired with no issues.

[Just Rick]

Like Phil.I for one would not have used that tyre again on my car,especially a steer wheel,I may have kept it for an emergency spare only,as for plugs,they are illegal on road going cars,OK for offroad vehicles,who ever sold them to you and advised they were OK for your car needs a swift kick in the goolies.

Even running a tyre completely flat like that for even the shortest distance,would have destroyed the strength and integrity of the sidewalls,if you would have taken that tyre to a decent tyre shop they would have never repaired it.

I would certainly be finding the nail and screw culprit and when found he/she would be getting fed those same items(you wouldn't have a builder/tradie living in your street with a dodgy looking equipment trailer or traytop

[Surferdude]

As the others have said, it's not good policy to put a repaired tyre back on the front, however, if it has been repaired properly (and only once), it's warranty would not be compromised so it's probably not a big deal.

As Rick says, those plugs are illegal on a road tyre. They certainly won't maintain your warranty and if one of them fails (as they do with longer  term use at highway speeds), you may have a serious issue with insurance should you have an accident because of it.

Most packages thye come in have a statement on them explaining their intended use.

Unfortunately there are still some tyre dealers who use them.

Apart from the possibility of failure, the other major issue is that whenever a tyre deflates it should be removed from the rim and inspected inside for damage. If it has only travelled from the roadway up your driveway, almost certainly no damage. However, a screw in a tyre causes a very slow leak and it may have been losing air for days, which causes a whole other set of problems.

"Vibration" is not an indicator of alignment problems. Vibration indicates a balance problem.
Pulling left or right suggests an alignment problem.

I would take the tyre to a specialist and ask them to replace the plug with a proper repair and inspect the tyre internally for damage.
Then get your alighnment checked.

[constipated]

As Rick says, those plugs are illegal on a road tyre. They certainly won't maintain your warranty and if one of them fails (as they do with longer  term use at highway speeds), you may have a serious issue with insurance should you have an accident because of it.

There are plenty warnings about using plugs.

Surferdude, you are qualified as you have run a tyre shop. I was just wondering have you come across any cases of blowouts related to plug repair. Or is it one of the many things on the internet of I've heard of this but never seen it happen.

It's just that before patch repairs became common place I think I've had at least 3 or 4 plug repairs that lasted the entire life of the tyre.

If it has only travelled from the roadway up your driveway, almost certainly no damage. However, a screw in a tyre causes a very slow leak and it may have been losing air for days, which causes a whole other set of problems.

Good to hear you think little risk of damage. The reason I think the puncture was recent as in only a few hours is because I drove 50km in the morning and the car felt fine but as soon as I tried to drive it from the road to my driveway later that day, I could feel a dragging sensation and thought something definitely wrong. As soon as I got out, I noticed the flat.

"Vibration" is not an indicator of alignment problems. Vibration indicates a balance problem.
Pulling left or right suggests an alignment problem.

Could a short drive like that knock out the alignment in your opinion. Would a plug repair, upset the balancing of a wheel or is the change in weight distribution too small (as I suspect).

I would take the tyre to a specialist and ask them to replace the plug with a proper repair and inspect the tyre internally for damage.
Then get your alighnment checked.

Thanks for the advice.

[Surferdude]

As Rick says, those plugs are illegal on a road tyre. They certainly won't maintain your warranty and if one of them fails (as they do with longer  term use at highway speeds), you may have a serious issue with insurance should you have an accident because of it.

There are plenty warnings about using plugs. True. And they're there because of the way the plug repair is designed to be applied.

Surferdude, you are qualified as you have run a tyre shop. I was just wondering have you come across any cases of blowouts related to plug repair. Or is it one of the many things on the internet of I've heard of this but never seen it happen. Not blowouts, But slow to medium loss of pressure which then results in a blowout due to excessive heat build up. Fairly common. People come in with a tyre with sidewall damage and when you inspect it you find a greasy plug repair somewhere which has dried out and clear evidence of overheating to the point of failure. That can happen with a screw or nail, too. The beneifit of tubeless tyres is that anything which penetrates tends to stay in the tyre and reduce air loss to a slowish rate. The down side is that if you don't notice it, the tyre will over heat and blow out. The old "I was just driving along and the tyre blew out without warning" story. Of course, if you have a tube in the tyre it goes flat straight away - like pricking a balloon.

It's just that before patch repairs became common place I think I've had at least 3 or 4 plug repairs that lasted the entire life of the tyre. Not sure what you mean by Patch repairs" Proper tubeless repairs were around long before the plugs came on the market. I'll try to post a link to what they look like at the bottom of this post

If it has only travelled from the roadway up your driveway, almost certainly no damage. However, a screw in a tyre causes a very slow leak and it may have been losing air for days, which causes a whole other set of problems.

Good to hear you think little risk of damage. The reason I think the puncture was recent as in only a few hours is because I drove 50km in the morning and the car felt fine but as soon as I tried to drive it from the road to my driveway later that day, I could feel a dragging sensation and thought something definitely wrong. As soon as I got out, I noticed the flat. As I said above, the screw could have been in there for quite some time and you wouldn't necessarily notice it. And blowouts don't always happen before total deflation but internal damage to the cord structure could well have. Which is why an internal inspection should be carried out. If as you say, there are plenty of nails and screws in your street, I'd suggest you picked it up as you left home.

"Vibration" is not an indicator of alignment problems. Vibration indicates a balance problem.
Pulling left or right suggests an alignment problem.

Could a short drive like that knock out the alignment in your opinion. Would a plug repair, upset the balancing of a wheel or is the change in weight distribution too small (as I suspect). No the repair won't affect it. If the tyre was fully inflated as you left the road and went flat in your driveway, no that wouldn't affect the alignment. BTW, I assume the screw was in the tread area, not the shoulder or sidewall

I would take the tyre to a specialist and ask them to replace the plug with a proper repair and inspect the tyre internally for damage.
Then get your alignment checked.

Thanks for the advice.

This from the RACQ website.
Tyre repairs

Punctures in tubeless tyres must only be repaired by fitting a vulcanized plug or patch from the inside of the tyre. In all cases the tyre must be removed from the rim to check for internal damage. Plugs that are fitted from the outside do not provide a permanent repair. Tyre repairs are only allowed in the tread area and are best performed by a reputable tyre dealer.

I am astounded at the number of pictures on the web all showing the external plug type repairs.
Can't immediately grab a pic of a proper repair but imagine a normal tube type patch with a tapered rubber tail coming out of the middle of it. The tyre is inspected internally, the area around the hole is buffed, rubber cement is applied and the rubber extension (I call them "donkey dicks"  ) pulled through till the patch is firmly stuck to the inside. The rubber extension is then cut off flush with the tread on the outside. This bit seals the steel belts from moisture and grit which can cause rust. The extenal plugs do this bit also but dry out after a while allowing air to escape and moisture to enter.

[Surferdude]

Minicombi Repair

[John B]

You mentioned you put the spare on for a short while and it drove ok would this not eliminate the tracking and put the drifting problem on the original tyre ?

[Surferdude]

Good point JB.

[constipated]

You mentioned you put the spare on for a short while and it drove ok would this not eliminate the tracking and put the drifting problem on the original tyre ?

Yes but you know how sometimes you can't quite be sure. Was it not there or did I just not notice it? I'm not sure I can be bothered having to jack the car up and change back to the spare just to find out.

The repaired tyre is all pumped up and maintaining pressure. Yes it is drifting to the left, but by Surferdude's explanation, if there was any issue with it it would cause vibration rather than drifting to the left, would it not?

I think I'll just have to fork out for another alignment. Proving to be a very costly little screw in my tyre. Grr

I've mentioned this before, I have a conspiracy theory about why so many tyre punctures are from screws on the road. Surferdude you wouldn't want to hear it.

[Asterix]

I think the sidewalls in the tyre have been damaged.

Try to swap left & right front tyres. If I'm right, your car would now steer to the right. If so, the punctured tyre is damaged and must be replaced.

[Surferdude]

I think the sidewalls in the tyre have been damaged.

Try to swap left & right front tyres. I I'm right, your car would now steer to the right. If so, the punctured tyre is damaged and must be replaced.

That's almost certainly the case asterix
It's why I want him to take it to a specialist.

[constipated]

Well out of curiosity I put back the spare tyre onto the front left to check what happened. It turns out the car is still drifting to the left. So I guess a wheel alignment is next on the cards. I don't really understand how as it was only done 10 months ago.

What's the going rate for a front wheel alignment. I don't think I'll get the rears done as should have been adjusted last time round.

[Dazzler]

Well out of curiosity I put back the spare tyre onto the front left to check what happened. It turns out the car is still drifting to the left. So I guess a wheel alignment is next on the cards. I don't really understand how as it was only done 10 months ago.

What's the going rate for a front wheel alignment. I don't think I'll get the rears done as should have been adjusted last time round.

Last time I had one done it was only $40 for two wheels (probably more now) 

[Surferdude]

Well out of curiosity I put back the spare tyre onto the front left to check what happened. It turns out the car is still drifting to the left. So I guess a wheel alignment is next on the cards. I don't really understand how as it was only done 10 months ago.

What's the going rate for a front wheel alignment. I don't think I'll get the rears done as should have been adjusted last time round.

You can't do a proper front alignment unless the rear is done first.
And 10 months or 10 days, unfortunately alignment is easily put out on the road. You may or may not notice whatever causes it at the time.
Please don't forget to ask someone to check that repaired tyre, for safety's sake.

[constipated]

You can't do a proper front alignment unless the rear is done first.
And 10 months or 10 days, unfortunately alignment is easily put out on the road. You may or may not notice whatever causes it at the time.
Please don't forget to ask someone to check that repaired tyre, for safety's sake.

Thanks Surferdude, I am due for a rotation of tyres so I'll ask them to check it and do a 4 wheel alignment (it seems you are suggesting).

Alas, call me cynical but I can guess what they will say regardless of whether the tyre is fine. It will range from either "we still need to patch that tyre ($35)", through to sorry you need a new tyre, here's what we have on offer ($150-200), and by the way you should get 2 to avoid different tread patterns. Yep, and the 4 wheel alignment ($70).

Oops, where did the week's pay go again???

It's so hard to judge the advice of someone when they have a financial interest in the advice they give you? (no disrespect intended at all to the advice you've given Surferdude).

[Surferdude]

I don't disagree with anything you say.
And a proper repair will cost you about that.

It's why I strongly suggest people find someone they're happy with and stick with them. Recommendations from friends can help, but if you've had good advice and service from somewhere before, go back there.
Just like a doctor, it helps if they know your history.

[constipated]

Damned screw. Grrrr

[constipated]

A very big thank you to Surferdude for recommending Chalmers tyres and brakes in Alexandria (now also branded Tyrepower). Took my car there and they gave the all clear and did a wheel alignment, 4 wheel balance  and rotation for only $50, way below what other tyre places were charging. Can you believe that a nearby tyre place that I shall not name wanted to charge me $112 just for the alignment.

Anyway the alignment showed the car was significantly out of range for the toe adjustment and it was all due to the left front wheel. The car now drives straight. Considering that I only got an adjustment done about 10 months ago, it shows that driving on a flat for only a short distance can knock the alignment out.

Thanks again Surferdude.

[Surferdude]

A very big thank you to Surferdude for recommending Chalmers tyres and brakes in Alexandria (now also branded Tyrepower). Took my car there and they gave the all clear and did a wheel alignment, 4 wheel balance  and rotation for only $50, way below what other tyre places were charging. Can you believe that a nearby tyre place that I shall not name wanted to charge me $112 just for the alignment.

Anyway the alignment showed the car was significantly out of range for the toe adjustment and it was all due to the left front wheel. The car now drives straight. Considering that I only got an adjustment done about 10 months ago, it shows that driving on a flat for only a short distance can knock the alignment out.

Thanks again Surferdude.

Many thanks for the feedback.
I must admit I'm always a bit cautious about recommending somewhere for people to go with their car. But it's nice to know when things work out for the best.

I did a bit of research on this one as it's a while since I've been living and working in Sydney.
John (Lakes) may be interested to know that Brooks have sold out of all their stores as he has a history with them going back even further than I do.

Anyway, it's great to know that Chalmers has maintained its quality of service.

[Surferdude]

BTW, constipated. Is Chalmers identified as "Tyrepower" or "Tyreright".
They don't show up on the Tyrepower website.

[constipated]

BTW, constipated. Is Chalmers identified as "Tyrepower" or "Tyreright".
They don't show up on the Tyrepower website.

My mistake. Tyreright!

[Phil №❶]

  and 

[rustynutz]

A 4 wheel alignment for $50...bargain!
I paid $100 at a backyard mechanic who specialises in front ends, he was supposedly the cheapest place in town. 

[constipated]

A 4 wheel alignment for $50...bargain!

Not just alignment but also 4 wheel balance and rotation. I can see they've added extra balance weights to the wheels. Plus they were fine to rotate my tyres front to back. They do have this as an offer on the front of the Brooks tyres website. I'm a bit confused whether they still are or are not a part of that group anymore. Either way they decided to honour the offer. Fantastic value.

[Dazzler]

Thanks for reporting back Con .. Great to hear! 

[Surferdude]

It's interesting that, when I discovered Brooks had sold their three loactions (north Parramatta, Richmond and Chalmers, Alexandria) to Tyreright, I googled Tyreright to upgrade my knowledge of them. Now I have a little Tyreright ad alongside my Facebook page. 

[Phil №❶]

You should be running, Ghostery