[terry hunter]

This topic was touched on in another thread but thought it needed one of its own as it can cause a bit of angst with new owners... like me!

Our CW CRDI is about 4 weeks old and running perfectly... with over 2000km on the clock.

Within the first week my wife noticed a puff of blue smoke when started cold. I mentioned this at our first free 1000km service at local dealer in central Vic. (not whom I bought the car from).

They said they couldn't find a problem.... and of course it is not evident once the car is warmed up.

Still a bit concerned, I booked in to see the service manager at a large Melb. dealer to talk about the issue.
He gave me over 1/2 hour of time explaining in detail why this might happen, and how the official input from Hyundai was that this is normal and not to be concerning at all.

He put the vehicle on the computer analyser and showed me all the systems which are checked... including the diesel particulate check, and that everything was normal.

Wow, there are over a hundred different components that are checked via computer just in the engine system... and there are eight different systems in the I30 that get checked!  This was good PR if nothing else.

He explained that on cold start-up, the sensors measure the air temp and engine temp and inject 4 lots of fuel into the cylinders at varying amounts within the 4 strokes of the motor to lubricate and prime.
The smoke on start-up is a result of all this 'extra' fuel/oil and of course disappears after start-up.

He said some times you will get more smoke than others and this is exclusively due to the varying qualities of diesel fuel available.
He said all Australian diesel fuel is cr@p compared to Europe and varies greatly from supplier to supplier.

Though he would not name any ones to avoid, he said I should try four different suppliers and compare both the power and smoke variations that I will no doubt find. He said power differences are very noticeable!

Even though Aust. now has lower sulphur content in diesel, apparently there are many other factors that determine how good and how clean diesel is.

He went on to tell me all sorts of other things ( he has been to Hyundai in Korea) as is thoroughly impressed by the company... particularly this new breed of diesel which is state of the art.... Italian designed, Bosch Electronic injection, and Hyundai manufactured.

Problems with them are rare indeed and they continue to impress all motoring critics and writers with their frugal fuel use and efficiency.

All in all I was impressed with the time given to assure me that all was well... and that the I30CRDI is a brilliant piece of engineering... and that Toyota is definitely looking over its shoulder!

From my readings, there are currently only two car companies that are making money... Hyundai and Audi. (not sure where Ferarri is in this as they never seem to be affected by economic downturns!)

Hope this is helpful to others.

T.H.

[bumpkin]

Excellent input Terry, well written.

Perhaps this could be stickied, since it comes up regularly

[LuciferDarklord]

It shouldnt be blue smoke.  Extra fuel will result in black smoke.  I've never noticed any smoke come from mine, but there is a small black sooty mark on the carport floor where I park.  If its blue smoke its either oil leaking in down the valve stem seals, from the EGR, or low compression / timing issues (normally whiteish smoke more than blue).  Didnt camerooney have blue smoke issues on startup too?  I'll have a search.

Here 'tis.  I guess he never found the resolution to it before selling.

https://i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,1961.msg17247.html#msg17247

[Dazzler]

Very interesting.. consider it stickied 

[Shambles]

I too am not convinced that blue smoke is "normal" - I've had the odd black chuff but never blue.

[eye30]

terry hunter,

Is it so smokey that you can see when you are sat in the drivers seat?

Otherwise I'm as shambles on this and so long as it doesn't smoke like my son's VW diesel, like an old steam engine, I'm happy

[chinpakt]

I too am not convinced that blue smoke is "normal" - I've had the odd black chuff but never blue.

Hi, I too recently got myself a i30CW CRDI and have done about 1500 km on it. No blue smoke thus far...a bit of white smoke early in the mornings when its cold.

[Lakes]

Just read this post, blue smoke = engine oil, black smoke = rich diesel ( or more diesel being injected for cold start ).
there was a wise saying once. if you can't impress them with briliance, baffle them with ..... . it is easy to plug in to a PC and show all the readings from all the sensors. but only way to check or fix a leaking valve stem seal, is to remove the cylinder head.
over head cam need a lot of oil up the top end to lubricate cams and so on. when you turn motor off there will be a lot of oil up there around the valves stems, if a stem is not sealing the oil leaks into the combussion chamber, then when you first start it burns , and makes blue smoke, mostly only see it at start up after car has been standing, if it's bad they do it every time you restart.
we have Caltex Vortex Premium Diesel and BP ultimate premium diesel. i'm in Sydney and buy Caltex Vortex Premium diesel just cost's more, but motor runs noticibly smoother with slightly more responce.

[terry hunter]

G'day eye30,

On cold start you can just see the smoke puff from the drivers seat and it's hard to say if it's white or blueish white.

Will try another diesel supplier after this tank full and keep an eye on it.

Terry H

[tzwientjuh]

We have a volvo wich has over 200.000 km. It has never had smoke behind the car.
My car from work also hasn't have smoke. (both diesel)

I can say that the fuel here in belgium has great quality. Thats why many people here chiptune their car to optimize the car for our fuel.
Some people have 30hp more and have less consumption! All cars have a standard program in their computer so they can drive everywhere on the world.

[Zhangster]

Hi all

a little info from me...  i was learnt that when the smoke from the exhaust is :

black = unused/ unburned fuel  / misture screwed or tampered with.

Blue = it using lots of oil... 

while smoke :  condense water from exhaust or coolant .

i would keep a good eye on ya oil level the next few time u r filling up with diesel..

when that said : its pretty normal that new cars uses oil.... till they r like 15000-25000km

the reason : all the engine parts have to get set in.... short version..

also the reason why u r not allowed to tow heavy loads and such when the car is new... and rev it heavily...

cheers all

[Lakes]

Terry,
there must be a way to analize, the exhast.
Also if our diesel was not up to Euro standards, the big euro manurfacturers would not export there diesel models out here.
a few years back a friend of mine in USA said they could not get the top line euro diesels there as they did not use low sulphir diesel, he also noted that we could get the latest euro diesel models here. since then USA have also moved to low sulphir fuel.
you can have fuel tested yourself & see if it matches up.
but Blue smoke on start up is oil, and if it does not keep blowing blue smoke while runing, it is most likely coming down your valve stem's, meaning the valve stem seals are not sealing, these seals do not need to wear in they should seal, it won't go away with time.
Good Luck.

[terry hunter]

I've booked the car in for another technician opinion to local Hyundai centre.

They kept it overnight and this morning, they told me that the glow-plug is not working. The colder it gets, the harder it will be to start.

Will be interested to see if this is connected to the blue smoke or not. I can't see the connection but at least it's one less problem down the track.

I'll keep you in touch with progress.

Terry H

[Dazzler]

A bit off topic but i like your Avatar dpo 

[eye30]

they told me that the glow-plug is not working.

I'm not a techi but my understanding was that if the glow plug didn't work the car wouldn't start.

Did the glow plug symbol on the dash go out??

How many glow plugs are there on the car??

[2i30s]

i make diesel powered fire pumps [50hp up to 350hp] and on test start up none ever blow blue smoke only black.  steve.

[Zhangster]

A bit off topic but i like your Avatar dpo 

hehehe .. thanks m8.   its pretty funny. 

they told me that the glow-plug is not working.

I'm not a techi but my understanding was that if the glow plug didn't work the car wouldn't start.

Did the glow plug symbol on the dash go out??

How many glow plugs are there on the car??

The car has 1 glow plug per cylinder urs got 4 of em

normally when a glowplug dies... the glowplug symbol either is on all the time or dont light up when u wanna start the car.

[2i30s]

most modern day diesel engines only need 10 to 20 seconds of glow preheat before fireing up,it wasn't that long ago you had to wait 2 or 3 minutes.  steve

[Shambles]

most modern day diesel engines only need 10 to 20 seconds of glow preheat ...

My glow light extinguishes after about 3 seconds...

[Dazzler]

most modern day diesel engines only need 10 to 20 seconds of glow preheat ...

My glow light extinguishes after about 3 seconds...

 

Think you can get Nasal spray for that problem...

[Lakes]

I've booked the car in for another technician opinion to local Hyundai centre.

They kept it overnight and this morning, they told me that the glow-plug is not working. The colder it gets, the harder it will be to start.

Will be interested to see if this is connected to the blue smoke or not. I can't see the connection but at least it's one less problem down the track.

I'll keep you in touch with progress.

Terry H

Terry, the i30 CRDi do not use glow plugs, Lucifer pointed this out to me. i don't think any of the diesels for the past??? say 10 years have used them. they have a heater that heats intake.
the Trucks at work i drive sometimes are much faster to heat up than my i30, they have the heat up light go off almost instanly.
Terry is it very cold in mornings were you are?
as fuel companys change diesel blend summer to winter. i use Chem Tech Diesel Power it's a fuel conditioner helps cold start too. but not realy cold here in Sydney yet.

[LuciferDarklord]

I was kinda guessing they didnt have glow plugs, based on the fact most Direct Injections diesels have a high enough compression ratio and small surface area to lose heat.  They shouldnt really need a glow plug to start at all.  My guess was that the pre-heat is a coil or element in the intake manifold that heats the air, and is purely for emissions and to help reduce the diesel rattle when cold.  When I took my engine cover off a few weeks ago I forgot to look for glowplugs, but when Lakes had a look he couldnt see any.  My wife has forgot to 'glow' a few times when starting, no smoke, no hunting or missing.  Generally with a pre-combustion diesel that needs glow plugs, if one is buggered it blows a very light blue to white smoke (normally white) and run rough and sometimes missfire on the cylinder(s) with broken glowplugs.

[Dazzler]

My wife has forgot to 'glow' a few times when starting, no smoke, no hunting or missing. 

I never wait ...

I just start her like any other car and she starts first pop unless it is really cold ...

[terry hunter]

Sorry to be slow to get back on this smokey issue, but have not yeat had the replacement "glow plug" (heater) replaced as yet. It is still coming.

The service guy told me the technician was very confident this was the smoke problem. We'll see.

Temperatures have not got below 5 deg. here in central Vic yet this Autumn but we can have a run of -3 to -5 mornings during winter...and the vehicle has not been hard to start so far. It takes about 2 seconds for the "glow" light to go off and it starts within 2 secs. of turnover. So I'm not sure why he thinks it's the glow plug issue that's causing anything.

But then again I'm pretty ignorant on these things.

I'll give more feed-back when I know more but thanks for your input all.
It's due to you that I've kept chasing this up even after being told all is well by those who have not actually seen this issue!

Terry H.

[terry hunter]

Well the service chap has replaced a special fuse which controls the glow plug sensor and therefore cold start fuel management.
This was blown from something earthing out and needed a spacer.

He was very confident this was causing the blue smoke on start-up when cold. Anyway we'll see once the weather gets cold as is currently not getting below 7-8deg.C overnight.

I asked him why the smoke was blue rather than black... to which he replied (my summary as I understood him) that black smoke is a burnt fuel particulate issue... whereas the blue smoke was unburnt extra fuel from the poor management at cold start due to the blown fuse causing poor controlling management.
He said diesel fuel can be either black or blue coming from the exhaust and is unlikely to be excess oil in the cylinders.

I'll keep all informed as to the accuracy of this as others may have the same issue.

Terry Hunter

... By the way, he said it does have glow plugs rather than a heater... and no CPF which is expensive and will be on the new 4WD.

[Dazzler]

Thanks for the update... What you were told seems to tally with various inquiries and observations made on this site in the past...

[Doggie 1]

I haven't noticed ny smoke on start up but do definitely get a "fumey" exhaust smell when cold.

[terry hunter]

Well there was no blue smoke this morning... though it wasn't very cold either.

Have to wait till deeper into winter to really test it I suppose but so far so good.

If the issue is solved, then blue smoke can be caused by other factors than oil seeping past the valve stem seals. This must be good news to those who feared this... and certainly to me.

I'll keep in touch.


Terry H

Well there was no blue smoke this morning... though it wasn't very cold either.

Have to wait till deeper into winter to really test it I suppose but so far so good.

If the issue is solved, then blue smoke can be caused by other factors than oil seeping past the valve stem seals. This must be good news to those who feared this... and certainly to me.

I'll keep in touch.


Terry H

Terry, I've watched this thread with interest.  It might depend on one's perception of blue but I've never seen any blue smoke that wasn't burnt oil (not that I'm an expert ).

Lubricating oil can of course get into the combustion chamber via the rings as well and I would expect some to do that even if the consumption is near zero (else how is it lubricating the upper cylinder?).

Maybe the answer is related to the normal combustion (which might burn the small amount of lubricating oil to invisibility) not happening at startup if the glow-plugs are not powered.  My understanding of glow-plugs from RC days is that they remain hot enough to give a hot-spot "starter" for ignition once the engine is started but need pre-heating (with battery current only applied until engine fires) to give a similar effect from cold.

The other thought is that diesel is close to oil on the petroleum scale and maybe given the right temperature will burn blue??   

[terry hunter]

Yeh hi Pip,

I tried really hard to talk myself into thinking the smoke was anything but blue as I didn't want the hassle of chasing up warranties, car out of action, always wondering if we've got a lemon and all that.

But I have persisted with the issue and hopefully this young technician at local Hyundai has put his finger on it as this is my third attempt to have it acknowledged and responded to. Not that the other attempts were ignored but they were not diagnosed as the car had to be left overnight for them to start-up from cold to see.

So I've not seen any smoke at all for the past two mornings (though warm mornings) but I'll keep a close eye till well into winter.

Terry H