[EymaTeapot]

Interesting article Don,
it does beg some questions, the obvious one being, why didnt Hyundai include a particle filter on the i30. Allthough it has been debated on this site, it would ssem that the car does not have a particle filter. The Hyundai Sants fe has one, so why not the i30? You would'nt imagine it would of added very much to production costs, but surely would have contributed greatly to sales as more and more consumers become more concerned for the enviroment, and healthier choices.
Now I am going in blind here, but is a particle filter something that can be added after-market. Maybe if the government offered some rebates, consumeres might be inclined to have them fitted to existing diesel vehicles. Or is the particle filter only something that can be factoy fitted?

[kinesiologykid]

That's what I like to see on this site ... a completely unbiased opinion...

LOL - I guess I should leave this one alone... rather heavily outweighed by diesel owners here of late!!!

But it would be nice to see a true unbiased comparison .. trouble is, a lot of the factors have more or lesser importance to different people... and a lot of the factors are of themselves subject to wide variations.

I'm happy with our ULP i30 - more than enough power... very economical... very cheap to buy... looks nice... easy to get fuel anywhere... and doesn't throw anywhere near as many little chunks of carbon out the exhaust to add to the general gray haze and ill health of people over so much of this poor old earth

(The truth about diesel = http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Artic ... 56&IsPgd=0 )

and now the car has settled into an average 5.8 L/100k... I'm using less fuel than the average for an automatic CRDi - despite the diesel being a smaller engine (1.6) !!!

OK - So I didn't really want to put the cat amongst the pigeons... just putting forward another perspective!

Hi Donc,
Thanks for the link - cleared up some confusion - I didn't understand why the i30 only had 3.5 stars on the green guide, yet got green car of the year.

If it had been available in Australia, I may have taken the 1.6 petrol wagon (estate in the UK).
I guess I can justify the diesel fumes as I do mostly country kms, no people!
Mine goes in for the 1,000 kms check next week, I will talk to the head service guy if I can about adding a filter.

[kinesiologykid]

I agree with the reasoning re the diesel choice.  I would add that had we only been driving 20-30 thousand km (or even less) per year, the petrol would have made more sense.  

However, since picking up the i30 CRDi just over 6 months ago, it has already done 30 thousand km.  So, you see, ouri30 is set to do 50 thousand km (minimum) in its first 12 months.  A petrol would make no sense at all to us.  In addition, as explained by our dealer service centre, we have no need to have interim services, hence reducing our service costs.

I have done my maths and like kinesiologykid it makes sence for us to choose the diesel.  And what's more, my wife loves driving the diesel i30.

Bob

Hi Bob,
So you just get a service every 15,000 kms?
Reading the manual if you drive on dirt roads, or do short runs, or drive fast, etc, you need 7,500 km mini services. Seems to cover 90% of people!

Hi Bob,
So you just get a service every 15,000 kms?
Reading the manual if you drive on dirt roads, or do short runs, or drive fast, etc, you need 7,500 km mini services. Seems to cover 90% of people!

kinesiologykid,

It is very simple really.  We don't drive fast - usually between 70-100km on most trips with an average of about 72kph.  We don't do short trips (we have our Getz for that).  We avoid driving on dirt unless abosolutely necessary.  Also, we do about 1000km per week minimum with the average trip being around 70km.

It was the service manager's suggestion that we have 15000 km service intervals.  This was after the first interim service followed soon after  by the 15000km service.

Bob

[EymaTeapot]

I intend to only service mine every 15000k too.
That said, I recently changed the engine oil myself at 7500, though not the oil filter. I will continue to do this at 7500 intervals. Its a 20 minute job, and although the synthetic oil costs a bit, its a good precaution. I only do about 15-20k a year so only have to carry out the exercice every 6 months or so.

[kinesiologykid]

Hi Bob,
So you just get a service every 15,000 kms?
Reading the manual if you drive on dirt roads, or do short runs, or drive fast, etc, you need 7,500 km mini services. Seems to cover 90% of people!

kinesiologykid,

It is very simple really.  We don't drive fast - usually between 70-100km on most trips with an average of about 72kph.  We don't do short trips (we have our Getz for that).  We avoid driving on dirt unless abosolutely necessary.  Also, we do about 1000km per week minimum with the average trip being around 70km.

It was the service manager's suggestion that we have 15000 km service intervals.  This was after the first interim service followed soon after  by the 15000km service.

Bob

Hi Bob,
Thanks, makes a big difference if you only need 15,000 service.
I bet you get amazing economy!
There are now 8 reviews on this site
http://www.carsurvey.org/reviews/hyundai/
Pity we dont have anyone who has done 30,000kms, many have only done much less.

[EymaTeapot]

Hehehe,

That was me, gave it a good wrap too.
More of us should get on there and rate the car if its going to encourage more would be buyers.

There are now 8 reviews on this site
http://www.carsurvey.org/reviews/hyundai/
Pity we dont have anyone who has done 30,000kms, many have only done much less.

Sounds like a hint to me.  I'd better get to it then.  Maybe on the weekend when I have a bit of spare time.

Bob

[donc]

I intend to only service mine every 15000k too.

I have all my cars serviced at 7,500 intervals (sometimes slipping up to 10K), mostly because like Bob we average 1,000 km per week on rough country roads, but also for reasons of safety.

The engine isn't touched in a minor service, but IMO the engine isn't the most important component of a motor vehicle (an engine can easily be replaced, but if the brakes or steering fail chances are I could loose a loved one). Minor services mostly involve getting the car up on a hoist and checking brake lines, steering linkages, shocks, exhaust, chasis and engine mounts for minor fractures, tyres and other major components for small problems before they become big problems. For me these services never cost more than $100 (probably because I do get them regularly done), so I don't have a problem with the cost... and if they do end up costing more it's because they found something wrong, in which case I'm extra glad I had it done!

[kinesiologykid]

I intend to only service mine every 15000k too.

I have all my cars serviced at 7,500 intervals (sometimes slipping up to 10K), mostly because like Bob we average 1,000 km per week on rough country roads, but also for reasons of safety.

The engine isn't touched in a minor service, but IMO the engine isn't the most important component of a motor vehicle (an engine can easily be replaced, but if the brakes or steering fail chances are I could loose a loved one). Minor services mostly involve getting the car up on a hoist and checking brake lines, steering linkages, shocks, exhaust, chasis and engine mounts for minor fractures, tyres and other major components for small problems before they become big problems. For me these services never cost more than $100 (probably because I do get them regularly done), so I don't have a problem with the cost... and if they do end up costing more it's because they found something wrong, in which case I'm extra glad I had it done!

Hi Eyma,
I was told the 7,500 service, if necessary would be $260, and includes oil change. It was mainly for cars not driven many kms, as there are things like oil that deteriorate with time, so need changing yearly. Or for cars doing mainly stop/start city driving, or dusty roads, I guess you have more chance of a stone causing damage underneath.


Now that Toyota $125 service is looking good!

[donc]

I was told the 7,500 service, if necessary would be $260, and includes oil change. It was mainly for cars not driven many kms, as there are things like oil that deteriorate with time, so need changing yearly. Or for cars doing mainly stop/start city driving, or dusty roads, I guess you have more chance of a stone causing damage underneath.

Hi Kid,

Maybe it comes back to the dealer doing your service knowing the car and the conditions it operates in... I know my dealer and the mechanics who work on our cars quite well - As a general rule we are more interested in real-world service requirements than the generic guides provided by the manufacturers service books. The books provide a guide based on predetermined averages of all drivers in all driving conditions, however of more importance should be the specific factors that impact on your car.

E.g. The manufacturers might only recommend suspension checks every 20,000 km, but on the roads out here you would be crazy to wait that long between checks. A lot of people go through shock absorbers every 30-40,000 km. At this point the shocks in the i30's are an unknown factor (who knows how long they will last on Aussie country roads?) so it's worth having them regularly checked for seepage at the seals - and that's just one component of the thousands that could need attention!

[donc]

Interesting article Don,
it does beg some questions, the obvious one being, why didnt Hyundai include a particle filter on the i30. Allthough it has been debated on this site, it would ssem that the car does not have a particle filter. (snip)

Mate it’s only conjecture on my part but I suspect the reasons are three-fold –

Firstly, cost. A particulate filter could raise the cost of an i30 CRDi by as much as A$2,000. I suspect Hyundai marketers felt this might make the diesel uncompetitive against rival makes.

Secondly, particulate filters are ‘finite’ and have a service life of around 100,000 km before they need to be replaced or have the built-up ash physically removed. At around $2K a pop that makes for expensive services for those of us doing an average 50,000 km a year (footnote – modern particulate filters are self rejuvenating up to a point, however the process generates ash which clogs the filters and must be removed/replaced to prevent engine damage – usually at 100,000 km intervals) .    

Thirdly, it’s generally recognized nowadays that Nitrogen Oxides are the real killers from diesel exhaust and particulate filters don’t do anything to reduce the emission of this noxious gas. This is generally regarded as the reason diesel cars are more widely accepted in Europe than the US – European standards for diesel NOX emissions are notably lax compared with ULP standards, whereas in the US, (and from next year Japan), emission standards tend to be equal for all types of fuel (at least in New York, Michigan, California etc.) meaning diesel cars mostly fail to comply with current US emission standards.

Unfortunately a fundamental of the refining process is that diesel fuel is processed less, and therefore is dirtier than other fuels meaning diesel cars need to have more inbuilt exhaust cleansing processes to meet modern emission standards – and these type of cleansing controls are all expensive.

[kinesiologykid]

Interesting article Don,
it does beg some questions, the obvious one being, why didnt Hyundai include a particle filter on the i30. Allthough it has been debated on this site, it would ssem that the car does not have a particle filter. (snip)

Mate it’s only conjecture on my part but I suspect the reasons are three-fold –

Firstly, cost. A particulate filter could raise the cost of an i30 CRDi by as much as A$2,000. I suspect Hyundai marketers felt this might make the diesel uncompetitive against rival makes.

Secondly, particulate filters are ‘finite’ and have a service life of around 100,000 km before they need to be replaced or have the built-up ash physically removed. At around $2K a pop that makes for expensive services for those of us doing an average 50,000 km a year (footnote – modern particulate filters are self rejuvenating up to a point, however the process generates ash which clogs the filters and must be removed/replaced to prevent engine damage – usually at 100,000 km intervals) .    

Thirdly, it’s generally recognized nowadays that Nitrogen Oxides are the real killers from diesel exhaust and particulate filters don’t do anything to reduce the emission of this noxious gas. This is generally regarded as the reason diesel cars are more widely accepted in Europe than the US – European standards for diesel NOX emissions are notably lax compared with ULP standards, whereas in the US, (and from next year Japan), emission standards tend to be equal for all types of fuel (at least in New York, Michigan, California etc.) meaning diesel cars mostly fail to comply with current US emission standards.

Unfortunately a fundamental of the refining process is that diesel fuel is processed less, and therefore is dirtier than other fuels meaning diesel cars need to have more inbuilt exhaust cleansing processes to meet modern emission standards – and these type of cleansing controls are all expensive.

At last a plausible reason, I had no idea a filter could be so expensive. I googled Particulate filters and some ones for buses can be over $5,000.
There was one expert estimated $800 + for a car, but still very expensive.

I asked today about them when I took my car in for its 1,000km service.
Here is the reply:
"The manuals don't need it because you are going through the revs changing gears so it burns up all the stuff. Only the automatics have it fitted!!!!!!!"

[ozsnowman]

Well, I had my 15,000km service done today - all up cost me $193.15

$83 Service cost
$12 Environment Levy
$1.95 Gasket
$49.03 5.3 litres of Castrol magnatec diesel oil
$1.77 washer solution
$27.85 Oil Filter

+ $17.56 GST

Seems like a pretty reasonable price for the first proper service.  

I must admit, the service at my car yard is impeccable, so if anyone in Northen Vic wants a good Hyundai dealer, try Rich River Hyundai in Echuca! I have no hesitation giving them my money again!

[donc]

At last a plausible reason, I had no idea a filter could be so expensive. I googled Particulate filters and some ones for buses can be over $5,000. There was one expert estimated $800 + for a car, but still very expensive. I asked today about them when I took my car in for its 1,000km service.
Here is the reply: "The manuals don't need it because you are going through the revs changing gears so it burns up all the stuff. Only the automatics have it fitted!!!!!!!"

Hi Kid - If your dealer said that they need to be drawn and quartered... I'm trusting it didn't come from a  qualified diesel mechanic!! The reason particulate filters are so expensive is because the filter isn't the only cost involved... modern regenerating filters also need engine modifications to raise exhaust gases to a temperature suitable to burn trapped carbon into ash... but this doesn't just happen in an unmodified engine during manual gear changes, and it certainly doesn't happen unless a particulate filter is first fitted!!! - This is a patently false claim so I would certainly take it up with them.

[kinesiologykid]

At last a plausible reason, I had no idea a filter could be so expensive. I googled Particulate filters and some ones for buses can be over $5,000. There was one expert estimated $800 + for a car, but still very expensive. I asked today about them when I took my car in for its 1,000km service.
Here is the reply: "The manuals don't need it because you are going through the revs changing gears so it burns up all the stuff. Only the automatics have it fitted!!!!!!!"

Hi Kid - If your dealer said that they need to be drawn and quartered... I'm trusting it didn't come from a  qualified diesel mechanic!! The reason particulate filters are so expensive is because the filter isn't the only cost involved... modern regenerating filters also need engine modifications to raise exhaust gases to a temperature suitable to burn trapped carbon into ash... but this doesn't just happen in an unmodified engine during manual gear changes, and it certainly doesn't happen unless a particulate filter is first fitted!!! - This is a patently false claim so I would certainly take it up with them.

Hi Donc,
The problem is its a really big dealership, they do Hyundai, Holden, Chrysler, Nissan etc.
I only seem to be able to talk to the monkey, not the organ-grinder.
As you can imagine, information gets corrupted when it goes through too many channels!
The mechanic could have been asked the wrong question by the lady on the desk.
I have been given the phone number for someone who should know, will call in the next few days.

[teamgeorge]

Im getting a diesel. i got it cos of the mileage and my gf wouldn't let me get a turbo but this was our compromise vehicle that i'm totally happy with (i still chose it) when it arrives.  

[whitbomb07]

Diesel.

For the economy and the torque!

Currently I drive a little nissan Pulsar Hatch and wanted something a bit gutsier, but wouldn't draw attention, that at the same time wouldn't cost a fortune to fill.

Regards

[garry]

Looking at those stats its no wonder diesel is still more expensive.

[tk421]

Looking at those stats its no wonder diesel is still more expensive.

Indeed. Now $2900 more expensive in the SLX model.

I bought the SR so there is no comparison... the cost of the mods to bring an SLX CRDi up to SR spec would have pushed the break even point beyond the life of the vehicle.

Tim  

[MyChemR]

I own a 2,5l Diesel.

[ivana]

In Australia the i30 Diesel is $2,500 dearer than the Petrol, whether its SX or SLX.
My dealer told me over the life of the car there is hardly any difference in servicing cost.
Also diesel cars get closer to claimed figures than petrol (and much closer than hybrids).

At todays prices for diesel and petrol (in Tasmania):
After 85,000 kms total fuel cost:
Petrol $9,608
Diesel $7,151

$2,500 is recouped, although if you allow for interest on the extra $2,500 then it may be 100,000 kms before its recouped.

The Petrol has filled up about 170 times, the Diesel only 100!

After 200,000 kms total fuel cost:
Petrol $22,608
Diesel $16,816

By now the i30 Petrol i30 is on its way to car heaven (or a new engine).
The i30 Diesel is nicely run in, gets even better economy and is still worth $2,500 more than the Petrol when you trade it in for the new LPG Elantra Hybrid.  

this. and it has a turbo. and its more fun to drive. the petrol felt like a granny go slow mobile to me...

[donc]

Good to see an old thread revive...

Lots of fleet/novated vehicles where I work so I've had opportunity to drive petrol and diesel powered i30's quite a bit over the past year - For me the petrol is still the better package. There's no doubt the diesel (especially with the automatic gearbox) is a lazier drive... the low down torque means fewer gear changes and it's definitely a smoother run-around-town than the petrol...

But I like to DRIVE a car (same for my wife). We drive lots of km's on country roads and like to get up in and play with the power band. Nothing better than kicking back a cog at 3500, maybe a little body flick as you get out to pass a truck heading up Mount Vic or elsewhere. Plus there's the nice sound of the engine, cleaner burning fuel (and commensurately higher enviro rating) and other aspects you just don't get with a diesel.

Bottom line for us - the i30 SLX is a nice little car with either engine - well balanced and nicely spec'd with creature comforts. We prefer the petrol, but I can understand why some people prefer a diesel.

[Blue]

Why are people obsessed with the "recouping" the cost issue.
I, for one, didn't buy the CRDi cause it was cheaper to run....
I bought it because of the mountain of T O R Q U E it has.

Some one calculate how long that would take to recoup that difference in a petrol...  oh wait... NEVER !

[Dazzler]

Some petrol owners will always try and say the petrol is better (that is only natural) but I can't think of one review of the i30 that says that!

 but... have read many that sing the praises of the diesel variant...

Even the Wheels magazine that rated the i30 as 10th out of eleven similar cars (bas***ds) had to add a little box that said "the 1.6 diesel was very good and added considerably to the appeal and driveabilty of the car.." or something like that 

[donc]

Some petrol owners will always try and say the petrol is better (that is only natural) but I can't think of one review of the i30 that says that!

I suspect you probably need to take yourself out of the i30/Hyundai box to get proper technical reviews on the various merits of petrol and diesel power plants - The i30 diesel was relatively new to to the Au market (and heavily marketed by Hyundai) so there were lots of early, and mostly positive reviews... but clearly this 'review gloss' is starting to fade...

I'm a member of the Au Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers (previous district training director) and have access to a range of technical reviews - drop me a note if you would like some pointers to non-marketing tech data sheets on this. 

[Dazzler]

I'm a member of the Au Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers (previous district training director) and have access to a range of technical reviews - drop me a note if you would like some pointers to non-marketing tech data sheets on this. 

 

Point taken donc.. (quite an appropriate user name for someone who likes discussing the merits of one donc compared to another  )

but.. I think i'd rather continue to bathe in my sea of ignorance...

Don't get me wrong it's the feeling you get behind the wheel on the highway combined with the much less frequent stops to petrol bowser that has hooked me...

I know they are not perfect if we go sunday driving around the suburbs looking at houses at 40kph we take the wifes Tiida (the Crdi doesn't feel so flash in that scenario)

[donc]

Don't get me wrong it's the feeling you get behind the wheel on the highway combined with the much less frequent stops to petrol bowser that has hooked me...

... and if that's what's most important to you... then why the heck not buy a diesel? :-)

[Slowyak]

1.6 litre petrol - simply because the diesel option is not available in Malaysia. Opted for the 1.6 because it is cheaper, and also because it is a more modern engine than the 2 litre petrol version.I like the idea of a timing chain rather than a belt in the 1.6L petrol, too.

Incidentally, the car belongs to my wife (I spend 99% of my on-road time on  mountain bikes), and it is one of the very, very few I30s to be sold in Malaysia. We would have picked the diesel if it was available.

Cheers,
Slowyak 

[Doggie 1]

Diesel every time. (Who said I'm biased?)