[nzenigma]

If you have ever tried to sell anything online you will probably be aware of the scammers who text or email you purporting to be interested in the sale.
They will avoid having a normal voice conversation, often claiming to be overseas... commonly, on an oil rig.
 I heard of one potential scammer who couldn't come to the phone because he was in hospital and he was deaf.
 Invariably, their end game is to get your bank details and then empty your account.

NEW TWIST : My friend, aka. Bob, sold his 2009 BMW on Ebay
 The purchaser used his PayPal account to make full payment into Bob's PayPal account.
 Bob then delivered the car to an address in NSW.

Two weeks later, (during the Xmas break)  PayPal notified Bob that the purchaser now claimed his credit card had been misused.

PayPal gave Bob two days to respond, however, given the holiday period, it was about seven days before Bob saw their message.
 By then, PayPal had returned Bob's money to the purchaser and closed both accounts advising that "No further discussion will be entered in to".

The car has also disappeared, possibly overseas. 

[Shambles]

One has to be a complete idiot to fall for something like that, given PayPal's propensity for reversing transactions on a whim

[nzenigma]

I will inform Bob that he is a complete idiot.
Please leave your name and address so that he can respond in person. 

[nzenigma]

  Shambles, to respond seriously, how many people know about "PayPal's propensity for reversing transactions on a whim".
Gumtree,  Ebay  etc promote PayPal as THE safe option.
Many high volume traders will only accept Paypal.
Consequently, I think it is generally accepted as safe.

In this country, the safest option is cash in hand; while unlikely, even a 'Bank Cheque' can be stopped.

Obviously, not every sale is completed with buyer and purchaser face to face, especially in this globalised world.

Personally, I will accept money into an empty bank account that is separate from my usual banking institution.

But, Im interested in other suggestions.
Cheers G.

[beerman]

I had a dispute with Paypal that they closed because they could (shipper provided a shipping number, and I say a shipping number, because on the most basic investigation with Aust Post the number had nothing to do with us).

Turns out that when you stamp your feet enough, they can reopen things, and do all sorts of things and I got my money back.

Personally I wouldn't do anything that expensive over Paypal (or if forced I wouldn't release the goods until the cash was in my bank account). Unfortunately this does not help your friend.

I hope he got a copy of the buyers licence and justice is swift, though I suspect he has lost his coin.

[mickd]

Thanks for the headsup, never heard of that one before,  💩
Will spread the scenario to friends ect. Maybe "bob" needs to scream his story to A Current Affair, 7:30 Report, the ACCC and a solicitor!
Only had 2 hassles with eBay / PayPal, a dodgy Microsoft program that Microsoft replaced for free once I gave them all details, and a seller had a $599 item listed as $59-I bought it but seller said his system had been hacked & refused to refund. They sorted it out in a couple of days.

Hope "bob" gets a favourable outcome

[Doggie 1]

I recently sold some car club calendars on eBay and I learned two things.
eBay's fees and PayPal's fees are exorbitant.
And when someone pays you, PayPal hangs on to your money for twenty one days before they release it.
Dangerous.

[Dazzler]

Hi Gary,

Thanks for sharing that story. I have only done one transaction through paypal over $1000 (slightly) I think.

I wouldn't have thought of selling a car through it. But, as you say I would have considered it one of the safer options. I didn't know of their propensity to reverse transactions!  (I do now) 

I feel really sorry for your friend and I think he needs to push the issue. He is now without his car and his money, it is very well for Paypal to say no correspondence will be entered into. They aren't the one's out of pocket! 

I doubt this is the first time the buyer has done something like this. If I was Bob I would push the line that the buyer's story needs more investigation... 

I agree with Dave about the charges they certainly add up (Selling through Ebay/paypal isn't very lucrative)

[Phil №❶]

I wouldn't sell anything using paypal as a payment method. You get 180 days to complain that there is something wrong and get your money back. with a bike that could be any fault at all. 

No way would I have delivered the car until the money was cleared in my account on top of that there is no way in the world I'd ever sell a vehicle on Ebay and then deliver the vehicle to an address when the purchaser isn't even there

If they wanted the vehicle delivered then it should also have been arranged to swap cash for car at the designation

[tw2005]

I'm guessing it happens to just about every person who lists a car for sale. Just before christmas we had the same deal. Wife got excited thought we had a buyer, so she responded to it but then once I got a look at it I knew straight away it was irrregular.

1. WHo purchases a car unsighted or driven?

2. Being a seasoned PayPal user I know that in most cases disputes end up being resolved in the purchases favour , so There's no way I was taking that risk and I had heard of similar scams.

3. A quick google of car sales scams paypal immediately brought up enough warnings and similarly formatted messages , I knew it was bogus.

4. The name seemed unusual too.

5. The sentences seemed awkward.

here it is , for our Magna Wagon. Most of what They asked, the information was contained in the advert along with more than enough photos. That too was an alarm bell that it was auto - generated and not someone interested or reading the actual advert.

From: Su-Tanya McQueen <ittsuao.mcqueen@gmail.com>
Sent: 26 November 2016 6:01 PM
To: xxxxx  xxxxx
Subject: Re: 2005 Mitsubishi Magna
 
I do really appreciate your response, the price of what am buying as advertised is okay by me by offering $350 to hold it and make sure it sold to me alone.. I will strongly like to make an outright purchase of this immediately due to your Integrity as stated in your ad which shown that your a real seller and straight forward,I really love the condition of what am buying but please for further assurance that this real and legit just email me some pictures with final price along for it ASAP so that i can add up with the offer above.. I may sound rude,but please understand that i have to be caution of what am buying as many untruthful seller are full online buy/sell nowadays.. Do bear with me and understand that face to face deal is the most but due to the nature of my work i couldn't which is i made a use of shipping company below,so get back to me with the following:

(1) How long have you had it?

(2) I will like to know the reason why you are selling it..

(3) Hope i'll enjoy it?

(4) What are the major problem of it?

My Mode of payment is PayPal since I'm requesting this transaction to be done via PayPal, I will be responsible for all the PayPal fees/charges on this transaction, if you don't have an account with PayPal, it's pretty easy, safe and secure to open one or better yet your BSB account name and numbers if you dont have an account with PayPal as i can make the transfer via my PayPal account to your nominated bank account since i have it linked up with my ANZ bank account. I hope we can make this transaction as fast as possible. Less I forgot, I have a Mover that will come for it once payment is cleared in your PayPal or nominated bank account and they will be handling it for me, as I look forward to hearing from you with your information as requested below.

Your Full name:
BSB:
Account name:
Full address:
Firm Price:
Mobile #:

Many thank...

[tw2005]

I wouldn't sell anything using paypal as a payment method. You get 180 days to complain that there is something wrong and get your money back. with a bike that could be any fault at all. 

100% correct

[Lakes]

Thank's, i don't like PayPal only used it once or twice but no longer in it.
some people or businesses in USA say they will only take paypal when selling to oversea's, i think it might be to do with exchange rate. but knowing PayPal they would make a double  killing off exchange rate too.
i feel for your friend!!

[Doggie 1]

I hope he has a win and Bob's yer uncle.

[nzenigma]

It seems like I hit the right button with this post. 
Regarding Bob, he not only lost his money, he lost his car too.
He said he felt uneasy about the deal but went along with it....Dammit.

Craig,  said "No way would I have delivered the car until the money was cleared in my account .... then deliver the vehicle to an address when the purchaser isn't even there "
The money was in Bob's account apparently 'cleared' except for the dispute period. Bob even paid a transport company to deliver the car to the purchaser's address.
The purchaser took possession of it and signed for it.  I suggest that the next day, he moved out of the house that he rented for cash under a false name.

Hi tw2005,
That is an unusually long winded letter from a scammer.
But it has all the usual ingredients: Request for further photos, information about its history, being stuck overseas etc.
Usually they just use a Western Christian name.
And include crucial questions like, does it have electric or wind up windows?

This was a quite practiced scammer.
'She' used a Western surname to give you comfort, but a 'possibly' Chinese first name to cover the imprecise grammar.
Apparently, the bad grammar is deliberate as it will fool your email provider's spam detection.

Here is the crunch line: "Less I forgot, I have a Mover that will come for it once payment is cleared".

Dear little Su-Tanya will suddenly need to get her mover paid asap. She has added $200 to the amount she has sent to you. But to expedite the sale you need to urgently send the extra $200 on to the mover via Western Union.
The mover's office is Shanghai.

Sounds Kosher to me!