[Lakes]

It is quoting the engine capacity as 2373cc (Hello!!!)

Hi Jason, that was always how it was done under most control bodys in motorsport. but at le mans they alow the Turbo Diesel to compeat at the displacement it is not multiply it, thats one reason why the Audi Turbo Diesel have been going so well.
i think Taraga tasmania is run under different rules its not like a normal race. but maybe dazz can post the rules up so we can see.
Dazz, to accomodate a wide variety of engine types in motorsport, a formula was devised to make competing against a turbo/supercharged car more equitable for the normally aspirated (n/a) cars. So for a turbo diesel car to compete against a n/a car the diesel's engine capacity of 1582cc is multiplied by 1.5 to give a new adjusted capacity of of 2373cc. A Turbo petrol car's multiplication is factor is 1.7 and a Turbo Rotary is 1.8.
Hope this helps....
Jase

[Dazzler]

i think Taraga tasmania is run under different rules its not like a normal race. but maybe dazz can post the rules up so we can see.

Can't see the exact link to the rules but for anyone who is interested there is plenty of other stuff to browse on here ..


http://www.targa.org.au/index.html

Some of these competitor articles make great reading...

http://www.targa.org.au/Competitors/Articles.html

[LuciferDarklord]

UPDATE - the full article on caradvice http://www.caradvice.com.au/66139/hyundai-i30-at-targa-tasmania-with-caradvice-co-driving/  It says no engine mods? Razy must have gone back to a standard ECU?

[Lakes]

UPDATE - the full article on caradvice http://www.caradvice.com.au/66139/hyundai-i30-at-targa-tasmania-with-caradvice-co-driving/  It says no engine mods? Razy must have gone back to a standard ECU?

i thought he already uses a Hyundai ECU? or Bosc like stock, if he had MoTeC or Autronic ECU would be illegal in stock factory class, but what comes with the car stock ok. like i think his is a SX so no traction control if you use MoTeC its possible to program in things like traction control that can help in excellerating out of slippery corners and so on also they can program in fuel cut out to allow wide open throtle clutchless shifts. might not seem like much but things like that programed right can help a front wheel drive car specially on cold mix cold temp wet roads and especialy when they have good TQ at low revs. but i'd say scrutineers look to check the ECU is stock i30 not aftermarket and that would be ok.

[Dazzler]

Hope this link works...

http://www.rallyresults.com.au/targa/TT2010/showStaget.asp?rVal=164&paramVal1=3&paramVal2=8&paramVal3=1

Terrible weather today and several accidents ...

Unofficially Razy is 12th in his class behind the Mazda 3 Diesel but ahead of a couple of Lancer Evo's and other more powerful cars...

3 cheers for RAZY ... (Did a good job just to stay on the road)

If you are reading this Razy I will try and catch up with you at the Devonport Lunch Stop on Friday ...

Good luck for the next two days...

[2i30s]

that's very impressive. 

[whitbomb07]

I don't get how Evo's are allowed to be in the same group as i30s.

Sure it's called showroom, but Evos are dedicated race cars just sold from a showroom.

This category should be the Mazda 3, Ford Focus, Holden Cruze, Toyota Corolla, Suzuki Swift sort of line up.

Evos should be in a 'racing showroom' category with stuff like Subaru Impreza's, Mazda RX8 etc etc.

I can't believe they put the i30 at a disadvantage due to it being a Turbo diesel, the torque may match a 2.4lt NA petrol but the Power output sure doesn't! I don't think it should be given and advantage or disadvantage.

GRRRRRRRRRRR  

Time for a Bex and a lie down?

Regards

Daniel

[Dazzler]

I can see where you are coming from Daniel... Just makes Razy look all that much better that he is in front of 3 x evos.. and an MX5

[Lakes]

I don't get how Evo's are allowed to be in the same group as i30s.

Sure it's called showroom, but Evos are dedicated race cars just sold from a showroom.

This category should be the Mazda 3, Ford Focus, Holden Cruze, Toyota Corolla, Suzuki Swift sort of line up.

Evos should be in a 'racing showroom' category with stuff like Subaru Impreza's, Mazda RX8 etc etc.

I can't believe they put the i30 at a disadvantage due to it being a Turbo diesel, the torque may match a 2.4lt NA petrol but the Power output sure doesn't! I don't think it should be given and advantage or disadvantage.

GRRRRRRRRRRR  

Time for a Bex and a lie down?

Regards

Daniel

 Daniel, a lot of these cars are just private entry's, but some are factory backed like the i30, the fact Razy has said he knows his car well, means a lot, the driver is just as important as the car. i think the showroom class has speed limits they need to stay under. but thats just what i think it's not a free for all, because i know these type events have insurance cover or they could not possibly run, the insurance co's force some limitations , but just what i would expect.

[diablo]

Anyone got a good news site for the event? I've looked and can't find one which tells how everyone, especially 'our' car, is doing.

 

[Dazzler]

Anyone got a good news site for the event? I've looked and can't find one which tells how everyone, especially 'our' car, is doing.

 

See reply #34 and this  link...

http://www.rallyresults.com.au/targa/TT2010/showStaget.asp?rVal=164&paramVal1=3&paramVal2=8&paramVal3=1

[diablo]

Thanks. 

Missed that one.   

[Dazzler]

Thanks. 

Missed that one.   

No probs 

It is only end of day one of five if Razy can keep it together he will climb higher in his class...

[jason117]

 Daniel, a lot of these cars are just private entry's, but some are factory backed like the i30, the fact Razy has said he knows his car well, means a lot, the driver is just as important as the car. i think the showroom class has speed limits they need to stay under. but thats just what i think it's not a free for all, because i know these type events have insurance cover or they could not possibly run, the insurance co's force some limitations , but just what i would expect.

[/quote]

Lakes, the events Raz competed in over in Perth had a maximum speed limit applied, but Targa Tasmania does not. Fastest wins!
And although Raz has factory support, it seems to be limited to financial aid and trackside assistance. Hyundai are certainly getting their advertising money's worth from their support of this team. Well done to everyone involved.

Heres a little light reading from the Targa rule book...


SHOWROOM - SR
SR1. Eligibility
Only modifications to the vehicle specified within these regulations are permitted, all other modifications are forbidden. Factory options and homologated
components are not permitted except where these regulations provide specific tolerance. Consumable service parts may only be replaced with genuine parts,
or non-genuine parts that are identical. If a suitable part is not available, application maybe made to the organisers for substitution of that part. Upon request the
entrant must produce the organisers with a workshop manual in hardcopy or electronic form within a specified amount of time.
SR2. Classes
Petrol
A Up to 2500cc
B 2501cc to 3500cc
C 3501cc to 4500cc
D Over 4500cc
Diesel
E Up to 2500cc
F 2501cc to 3500cc
G 3501cc to 4500cc
H Over 4500cc
Alternative / Hybrid Engine
All capacities
SR3. Air Conditioning
The air conditioning core and all parts of the air conditioner on the engine side of the firewall may be removed. No other part of the unit may be removed.
SR4. Diff / Clutch and Fly Wheel
The fly wheel is free providing that the original dimensions are retained and the replacement is of ferrous material. Clutch disc is free, but must retain the
original number of friction plates. The differential action is free providing that no external control of the action is possible. The manufacturer original ratio and
housing must be retained.
SR.5. Suspension
Springs may be replaced by others of the same type. e.g. one coil spring may replace another. The spring rate and height is free. Dampers are free, but must
retain and standard style spring seat that is not adjustable. Remote canisters are not permitted unless fitted as standard.
22
SR6. Interior
A substitute steering wheel is permitted. The standard front seat belts may be removed. Trim maybe modified to comply with the fitment of safety equipment
and the addition of navigation instruments. Any interior trim modification resulting exposed interior metal must be covered with material/carpet of like colour to
the remaining trim. The rear seat may be modified or removed. If removed the rear seat space must be fitted with material/carpet of like colour to the remaining
trim. The luggage compartment cover in hatchback design vehicles may be removed.
SR7. Brakes
The make and compound of brake pad is free. It is permitted to groove standard brake rotors. Rotor dust shields may be removed or adjusted. Cooling ducts
may be added, but these must be visually acceptable to the organisers and not require modification to the exterior bodywork, except for removal of fog or
secondary driving lights. The pipe used for ducted brake cooling is free but must be visually acceptable to the organisers. Hydraulic handbrake systems may be
fitted with localised trim modifications permitted. Hydraulic brakes hoses maybe replaced with braided hydraulic brakes hoses. Alternate brake hose couplings
are free.
SR8. Weight
The minimum weight must be in accordance with the manufacturers original specifications, provided either by details obtained from the manufacturer
confirmation, or sales specifications supplied by the entrant. This weight will be deemed to include all liquid tanks to be at the normal operating levels as
foreseen by the vehicle manufacturer. Minimum competition weight will be established by taking the minimum weight as established above.

[Dazzler]

Thanks Jason.. That was a bit special...

The one bit I didn't get is what would be the point of removing the back seat and the Air Con etc if the car has to weigh the same as a showroom model...

Then I though about it and I guess? You can do this to offset the extra weight of a roll cage etc..

[Lakes]

Thanks Jason, I did not know rules i was just speculating, but could not see an i30 CRDi being able to compeat with AWD cars like the EVO's with no speed limits & good driver.
but also you need to talk to the driver himself as it's impossible being able to sit at a computer and look at results and say or make up your mind how a car is going you need first hand info. so i would rather talk to Razy but don't even know him.
hope he goes well. but if say that Mazda 3 TD has a local boy driving it could be hard to beat as Tas climate and roads totally different, road temps would be lower and mostly that slipery cold mix but Daz would know more about that than a tourist
cheers

[Dazzler]

I hope to catch up with Razy today. I have the day off and the drivers are stopping for a lunch break in my home town of Devonport (I also hope to get some photos)

Razy is currently in 13th place in his class. The Mazda 3 driver is from NSW but has been in the Targa something like 7 times before so has big advantage over Razy as would be far more familiar with roads and conditions...

The Mazda 3 is a 2.0 Diesel with more KW and Torque as well (I could be wrong but got a feeling Mazda is probably giving him more support than Hyundai is giving Razy.. I will find out more today if I catch up with him)

I met Razy when I went to WA in October last year so it won't be a "cold call" 

[Shambles]

Thanks Dazz - pics would be great for the forum

[Dazzler]

   Bad news I'm afraid..

They said in the newspaper the lunch period would be from about 10.45 to 2.00pm with the better cars arriving about 1pm. I got there about 11.30am and there was only about 50 of the 250+ cars there (no Razy - or his car to be seen) and the last of the cars turned up about 12 noon but still no Razy 

According to the website he was still in the race and hanging on to unoffical 13th Position in the Showroom class at the end of the day (the way I read it)

I took a few random photos which I will post shortly from my Desktop PC..

[2i30s]

hes still in the race tho dazz. 

[Dazzler]

Here are some photos and other bits and pieces...

Firstly an article from Todays local rag about the Lancer Evo (see picture below) Costing the guy over A$2000 to fix the Telegraph Pole he broke and the insurance excess is A$5000 (ouch) also says about the times for lunch today (all wrong!) RECKON HE SHOULD COUNTER SUE THEM FOR DAMAGE POLE DID TO HIS CAR 





Lots of Mazda Motorsport guys fixing something minor on Glenney's RX8 at lunchtime .. later today he ran into another car which had stopped for an accident (and is now out of the race unfortunately)



Don't reckon Razy would have 4 burly guys to work on his car in the lunchbreak (not that he would need it either  ) touch wood

Few random shots of cars in the car park..















The GTR was too quick for me to capture but when I looked at photo at home I couldn't believe what was on side of car parked on road (as I hadn't seen it at the time)  



Unofficial Results after Stage 24 - last stage of day 3 (of 5 days)  This is just for the showroom class Razy is in...

[Razy]

Hi Guys,

Just a quick one, need to get a good night sleep before a very long day tomorrow. We are still in the race, did not have a single problem so far with the car but unfortunately the Mazda diesel has a much bigger motor and more power than the i30 and we can not keep up on the uphill sections (of which there are plenty in Tassie). There is no speed limit in this event and all showroom cars are in one category, so we are up against Evos and V8s. If it was part of the Australian Rally Championship the i30 would be in a different class than the Mazda 3, but this is not so we're all together.

We managed to beat all the trophy times until now, so if we can keep up the same pace we'll get a trophy at the end - check the regs to see what it is, but basically each stage has a "trophy time" and if we beat it on every stage (no exceptions) we get the trophy.

I am really happy with the way the i30 handles, it is back to showroom specs (factory sway bars, non-adjustable camber, factory suspension bushes) but the tyre wear is consistent and we hit top speed quite a few times.

We are running the factory ECU, we are allowed to chip it but no extra hardware can be added. My guess is that we have about 20-30% less power than the Mazda, which is just due to the engine being smaller.

A lot of cars went off the road in the first three days, the roads are very tricky and I am glad that we took our time and did a lot of work on the pacenotes.

Thanks for your support and I will post some more updates on Sunday.

Raz

[Shambles]

Good luck Raz - we're all behind you



Unlike the Mazda

[Lakes]

Dazz we are putting our electric cables underground mostly these days one day poles will be a thing of the past the kill people like trees do.

[2i30s]

the guy that hit that pole is one very lucky boy,$5000,thats a small price to pay. 

[whitbomb07]

Razy

I just watched the 5 min video clip on Car Advice and was left a little confused.

Most of the time you were in 3rd with 3-4,000rpm on the tacho, occasionally revving even higher before changing. Considering the max torque band is between 1900 and 2750 wouldn't you have been better in a higher gear?

I don't know much about racing, but what I do know of diesels (and the amount of driving I've done in my CRDi) is that pushing them up to that high a rev range doesn't seem to do much, I understand that max power is developed at 4,000, but by that point your torque has dropped off, leaving you at a disadvantage going up hills and coming out of corners.

I'm not questioning your abilities, I just don't understand and would like to know your thoughts. Watching that video I know it's definitely not something that I'd be capable of doing at anything more than half the speed your doing it at!

Another question is what fuel and any additives are you using?

Great work, keep doing us proud.

Regards

Daniel

Most of the time you were in 3rd with 3-4,000rpm on the tacho, occasionally revving even higher before changing. Considering the max torque band is between 1900 and 2750 wouldn't you have been better in a higher gear?

Razy might be busy... let me attempt an answer.
Esentially, torque can be ignored because it's the power (band) you need to consider. As a generalisation, the power band is approximately between the RPM of max torque and RPM of max power. By your supplied figures this is somewhere about 2,500-4,000rpm which fits your observation of where Razy spent his time!

We love to say that the torque pushes us up hills and while this is not exactly wrong to say that, it is really the strong low-down torque that in turn is providing strong low-down power.

Power is derived from torque * rpm.  Power moves the car.

Another thing to consider when trying to go fast is that the lower gears provide more torque/power than the higher gears. So long as a lower gear is consistent with the road speed wanted (and can be kept reasonably near the power band) it can provide more power to the wheels than choosing a higher gear.  This would suggest that the engine is more likely to be reving higher than lower most of the time when in a hurry.

I have never raced, so I'm more than happy to have somone more credentialed offer a better explanation.

[Dazzler]

Hi Razy

Sorry I missed you at the lunch stop 

You are doing a great job  (keep it up.. no pressure or anything  )

[Razy]

Hi!

It's been a long week but we go to the end of the rally - the car does not have a scratch on it and we finished 11th in the showroom category (out of 21 starters).

It was a good day today, I managed to make up two positions on the long stage (overtook two of the Evos in front of me) and also matched all the trophy times.

I will put some more in-car footage and some photos on the internet when we get home, but for now it's 5 days of holidays in Tassie :-)

The explanation about the power band is correct, what matters is the power being sent to the wheels - this depends on the torque developed by the engine, the RPM and the gearbox/final drive ratios. When choosing the shift point you need to consider all these parameters and for the standard i30 gearbox the ideal point is around 4300-4500RPM. The fact that the diesel has a lot more torque at lower RPMs means that in normal driving you can shift earlier and save fuel - you don't do that when you need to get the maximum power from the engine, but 99% of the time this is not needed.

Raz

[Dazzler]

Hi Razy..

Thanks for the update..

Terrific effort M8... A lot of people would not realise what an achievement it was just to finish without marking the car (let alone beating 4 x Lancer EVO's in the process  )

I will PM you (the least I can do is shout you and your wife a latte or cappuccino) 

P.S. I assume you will just use the i30 to cruise around for the next 5 days? or will you revert to a renta....