Gear shift problems

Jarlef · **February 25, 2018, 11:10:06**

I have studied a little more about the gear shift problems. Here are the symptoms.

Reverse
It is very hard to switch to reverse gear.
There is a grinding noise and when I force
to switch reverse there is small movement of the car
I recently found out that if I pump the clutch pedal fast 5 times and make a fast shift,
then the gear shift goes smoother

1.st gear
Gear shift down to 1.st gear is sometimes impossible. I have to shift to 2.nd gear first,
then back to 1.st gear
If lucky gearshift works, but it is unsmooth and I have to force it. There is no grinding sound.

3,4 and 5
Gear shift back and forth between 3.rd, 4.th and 5.th is almost okey

The clutch do not loose its grip, I think. and there is no burned smell

Other I30 cars have a clutch-fluid container back to the left (view from front) , but my car does not, it only have 2 thread-holes where it should be.
But it does have some sort of a slave-cylinder for the clutch and it might be malfunctioning. there should be somewhere to refill hydraulic-oil, but where ?

What else could cause this problem?

My car:
Hyundai i30. 2008-2012 mod. 1.6CDRI (I) Diesel.
Engine: D4FB-FL, 66 kW

Asterix · **Reply #1: February 25, 2018, 17:28:08**

The symptoms you describe are very normal for the early i30 models and it will often improve with new gear oil.

Haven't been out in the garage, but are you sure it doesn't use the brake fluid reservoir for the clutch..

Dazzler · **Reply #2: February 25, 2018, 20:05:09**

Yours does sound particularly bad though. Transmission oil change + maybe an additive as well. Could also get them to look at /adjust gear linkages at the same time.

Paolo5 · **Reply #3: February 25, 2018, 20:34:39**

Can you follow the hydraulic line that you have pictured and see where it originates?

My Getz has a combined master cylinder (clutch and brakes) but my i30 has separate master cylinders.

In your case it has to be one or the other.

tw2005 · **Reply #4: February 25, 2018, 20:53:27**

Sounds like the clutch is not fully releasing, for me that explains why reverse grinds and the car jolts. My current manual is also a bit like that where the clutch pedal has to be buried to the floor to have it released and then it's only just.

nzenigma · **Reply #5: February 25, 2018, 23:20:13**

"Other I30 cars have a clutch-fluid container back to the left (view from front) , but my car does not, it only have 2 thread-holes where it should be.
But it does have some sort of a slave-cylinder for the clutch and it might be malfunctioning. there should be somewhere to refill hydraulic-oil, but where ?"

Sort this before worrying about gear oil. You may need to bleed the slave, but first trace the fluid line back to the master. You need something to bleed. no use if it is empty

UPDATED
On a RHD CRDi it has a separate clutch reservoir. Im assuming you have LHD ( wherever you live????

) probably same set up.

kamikazeeugen · **Reply #6: February 26, 2018, 05:59:36**

look at the free play in the pedal assembly where the clutch master cylinder push rod attaches.
The rod is plastic and wears out on the pin creating higher free play so the clutch dosin't disengage fully.
i have installed an needle bearing and changed the pin with an 10mm screw.
Still, clutch engagement is pretty low but no more shifting issues.
All the best!
Eugen

jesam · **Reply #7: February 26, 2018, 20:19:23**

I have the same problem so i have decided to replace the clutch slave cylinder and see what happens think its just a case of elimination .off to get mine in the morning and if that dont make any difference then gearbox oil is next 😉😉

Dazzler · **Reply #8: February 26, 2018, 20:30:27**

Quote from: jesam on February 26, 2018, 20:19:23

I have the same problem so i have decided to replace the clutch slave cylinder and see what happens think its just a case of elimination .off to get mine in the morning and if that dont make any difference then gearbox oil is next 😉😉

I would have done the gearbox oil first!

jesam · **Reply #9: February 26, 2018, 21:17:39**

I do agree with you but i done a rebuild kit on the clutch slave cylinder 7 mouths ago and i think its time to replace. . New is new

nzenigma · **Reply #10: February 26, 2018, 21:52:07**

kamikazeeugen is the only one who has bothered to observe the travel distance of the pedal vs clutch fork travel.

The pedal needs to push into the master cylinder sufficiently to fully act upon the slave cylinder.
If there is play and wear in the pedal mech. ( which will happen over time) then logically the slave will have a similar lack of response.
The clutch fork acts upon the clutch thrust bearing inside the gear box. If the slave cylinder has air in it or is worn, or has not been sufficiently pressured by the master cylinder, it will not push the fork forward enough and the clutch remains engaged. (the 'fork' is the lever sticking out of the gearbox).

You need to observe these actions. You need someone to help.

kamikazeeugen · **Reply #11: February 27, 2018, 08:02:37**

From my experience, if the slave cylinder fails, will loose fluid. Is only one gasket there. In your pictures, the cylinder is bone dry so, i think is not the problem there.
Another problem can be bleeding. In my car, after the master clutch cylinder, there is a damper (a round thing) from searching around, this thing is there to allow the fluid to be pushed fast but when pedal is released, should act like an restrictor.
Maibe is a restriction there or, again, in my car, the fluid reservoir is the same for brakes and clutch and the clutch master cylinder feed hose is coming from the upper portion of the reservoir. So, be careful when bleeding to have always full level as during bleeding, the master cylinder can suck air through that hose instead of liquid.
Goodluck!

Jarlef · **Reply #12: March 07, 2018, 12:16:45**

Quote from: Asterix on February 25, 2018, 17:28:08

The symptoms you describe are very normal for the early i30 models and it will often improve with new gear oil.

Haven't been out in the garage, but are you sure it doesn't use the brake fluid reservoir for the clutch..

Not sure, but it is quite possible and I don't see any other option for where else the clutch cylinder gets its oil

Jarlef · **Reply #13: March 07, 2018, 12:30:29**

I believe the clutch doesn't disengage properly. This because if i hard and fast pump the clutch-pedal, then I can put it in reverse without any grinding sound (if lucky). If I doesn't do this, there will be grinding sound. So I will start with what is cheap and easy. Bleed the clutch-system and take some new picture for later studies. I keep you updated. Thanks all

kamikazeeugen · **Reply #14: March 07, 2018, 13:41:36**

Goodluck! Take care to fill the reservoir full!
Iff bleeding is not successful, the master cylinder is the one to blame.

Jarlef · **Reply #15: March 07, 2018, 14:16:28**

I found out some things while bleeding the system. The engine was off, because I had to take off a coolant hose in order to get access

1. The clutch is fully hydraulic. When I had loosen the bleed nipple and then pushed the clutch-pedal down, it went all way down to the floor and stayed down
2. I saw air-bubbles in the bleeding-hose. I proceed bleeding until there was no more air bubbles
3. Brakefluid container was drained while bleeding. I refilled, but it stayed allmost full the whole time
4. This did not solve the problem
5. I discover, if the engine is off, it is easy to switch to reverse.

So how do I know if I need a new mastercylinder, a slavecylinder or a new clutch-set ?

Jarlef · **Reply #16: March 07, 2018, 14:18:50**

Quote from: kamikazeeugen on March 07, 2018, 13:41:36

Goodluck! Take care to fill the reservoir full!
Iff bleeding is not successful, the master cylinder is the one to blame.

I guess you are right, but how sure are you ?

kamikazeeugen · **Reply #17: March 07, 2018, 15:07:31**

Pumping fast few times is working!
Same with brakes, Iff no air and no leaks...the master is gone.

kamikazeeugen · **Reply #18: March 07, 2018, 15:11:17**

Is loosing pressure internaly, between main gasket and external one. Is actualy pushing the fluid back to the reservoir. Iff you press few times fast and is working, 99.9 percent is the master cylinder.
Again, iff there are no leaks!
Your slave looks dry, iff the master is the same, then, change master.
Goodluck!

Jarlef · **Reply #19: March 07, 2018, 18:12:00**

How do I replace the master clutch cylinder?
I know where it suppose to be and how it looks. I can see from my picture how to disengage the rod from the pedal, but how do I accses the master cylinder in the engine?

nzenigma · **Reply #20: March 07, 2018, 21:27:02**

Unfortunately, we have been jumping between two threads on this clutch problem .

Clutch engaging too low.
The most obvious hint that you have air in the hydraulic system is that rapid pumping temporarily aids gear change.
Raising the old , unresolved, Gearbox oil debate is irrelevant here because reverse gear does not have synchromesh.

Quote from: Jarlef on March 07, 2018, 14:16:28

1. The clutch is fully hydraulic. When I had loosen the bleed nipple and then pushed the clutch-pedal down, it went all way down to the floor and stayed down
2. I saw air-bubbles in the bleeding-hose. I proceed bleeding until there was no more air bubbles
3. Brakefluid container was drained while bleeding. I refilled, but it stayed allmost full the whole time
4. This did not solve the problem
5. I discover, if the engine is off, it is easy to switch to reverse.

So how do I know if I need a new mastercylinder, a slavecylinder or a new clutch-set ?

On the British RH drive CRDi there is a separate clutch fluid reservoir. Because your car is LH drive, it does not have enough space so you are probably taking fluid from the brake reservoir. The fact that you say it was drained confirms this.
Did it completely drain? If so you will have let air get back into the clutch system. When bleeding you need to maintain the reservoir level and keep the end of the bleed tube in fluid so that air cannot be drawn back up.
Its possible that some air is still trapped in the damper. On some Euro cars, mechanics reverse bleed to over come
this inherent problem. This way, they pump fluid in from the bleed nipple.

Ok so if you are sure there is no air in the lines, no wetness on slave or master cylinders , no mechanical wear on push rods, and ( using a helper) the movement of the pedal is equal to reaction of slave on the clutch fork- your clutch pressure and friction plates are bad.

nzenigma · **Reply #21: March 07, 2018, 21:30:41**

Quote from: kamikazeeugen on March 07, 2018, 13:41:36

Goodluck! Take care to fill the reservoir full!
Iff bleeding is not successful, the master cylinder is the one to blame.

As with the slave, if the master is allowing a lot of air to get in, it has to let fluid out. On both, there will be wet areas.

kamikazeeugen · **Reply #22: March 08, 2018, 15:00:02**

Ahh! Sorry for this! i didint explain corectly. :neutral:By filling the reservoir full, i ment that the clutch fluid is taken from the brakes reservoir. If this is the case, you need to have full level during clutch bleeding procedure as the (clutch filling level inside the reservoir is higher then the brakes). Hope this makes sense. The other thing regarding the master and slave loosing fluid is that the slave has only one gasket, so, iff that leaks, you will see. The master, has 2 seals, fist is keeping the fluid allways in and second is the pressure one. The pressure seal can fail allowing the fluid to go back to the reservoir but can show no leaks as the first one is there to prevent exactly this. So, iff no leaks, bleeded right and still you have to press fast few times to raise the pressure a little, is the master cylinder.

tw2005 · **Reply #23: December 01, 2018, 19:38:08**

Similar issues with mine resolved with clutch damper or clutch control valve bypass.

Good thread by @stkman

Low clutch bite point resolution

Hyundai i30 2007 clutch problems. Fault finding and repair. - YouTube

WxmJax · **Reply #24: July 04, 2019, 16:12:56**

Same as tw2005, my wife's 62 plate i30 diesel was grinding going into reverse and couldn't find other gears sometimes. Took the clutch diaphragm off and put a sump plug in it's place. Just back from the garage and it seems to have cured it. Cost under £30 rather than £300 for a new clutch. Sounds stupid but it appears to accelerate quicker as well. I'll see what she thinks without telling her.