[EymaTeapot]

Hi guys,  

I was just playing around on the net ealier and found a Sydney based Forum dedicated to boideisel uses. It included information on how to make it. It also made reference to a Service station in Sydney that now sells a mixed biodeisel/petrodeisel.
The site indicated that any Deisel vehcile can run on biodeisel.
I am not what Hyundai's stance is on biodeisel.
What do our more techno members think? Is it advisable to run the car on bio? Is likely to do any harm to the engine or effect the warranty?
My feeling is that I wouldnt run a sophisticated CRDi engine on pure Biodeisel, but would consider a mix if it was cheaper, similar to the ethonol E10 some oil companys offer.

[Dazzler]

Good question Eyma.. I would be interested in any feedback also (thought I read on H-F early in the peace that biodiesel would void our warranty)

Gee I've done 900 posts.... 1000 will be an interesting milestone (Think i'll call myself a veteran then   )

[CRM114]

Hi Eyma,
in South Australia you can buy biodeisel at the bowser at several (many would be an ovestatement, but it's more than a few

Just re-reading my post so far, I'd like to add that I don't work for SAFF, it's just its the only example in SA for commercially available bio.

the sophisticated CRDi engine you refer to is designed for low sulfur diesel. Apparently adding bio (even as little as 2%) improves lubricity, something the sulfur used to do

[Dazzler]

Hi CRM..

How much would that "someone" who uses 100% bio be saving per litre over standard diesel....

[CRM114]

hi Dazzla,

not much at all, the bowser price is around $1.82 as opposed to $1.85 or sixish for dino diesel.

The real advantage 'someone' may have is that the source is renewable and the emissions slightly less toxic (ther's no 'angel' emoticon  

[Dazzler]

Is the 3 or 4 cents saved and the feel good factor enough to risk the warranty for "someone", I guess so .. I would consider say 10% Bio diesel but not brave enough to go with the 100% I'm afraid...

[echocae]

here the answer.

-----------
To whom it may concern

 i just wondering will the hyundai i30  CRDi (turbo
diesel) will work with a Bio-Diesel? or it have to be only Normal Diesel?

thank you
Brian
-----------

Hyundai Customer Service Response Reference # G215609

Dear Brian,

Thank you for your email.
Bio diesel fuel is not recommended in the i30. Use of this fuel may effect
your new car warranty.

Kind Regards

Nick Christopoulos
Customer Service Consultant
Hyundai Motor Company Australia

[eye30]

I sure I read in my handbook that using over a certain % of bio will invalidate the warranty.  Will check later.

In UK some petrol stations advertise both fuel with and without Bio.

I know of 1 supermarket petrol retailer who is actively adding bio to the fuel and all their fuel included a small %.  I think 5%.

I wouldn't be surprised if this % increases as fuel price increase.

Just another way to fleece the motorist!!!!

At this rate I'll be able to cook the tea on the way home from work.

[Lakes]

Hi Eyma,
in South Australia you can buy biodeisel at the bowser at several (many would be an ovestatement, but it's more than a few

Just re-reading my post so far, I'd like to add that I don't work for SAFF, it's just its the only example in SA for commercially available bio.

the sophisticated CRDi engine you refer to is designed for low sulfur diesel. Apparently adding bio (even as little as 2%) improves lubricity, something the sulfur used to do

Can you tell us what part of the motor the sulfur used to lubricate?
also i was thinking it might be the injectors they are worried about when you use Bio, or effect at different temps, as normal diesel fuel they change it summer to winter so it is always easy to start.
i'm thinking they might add something like BP do with there unlead 98 to keep the injectors clean, and maybe with bio this does not happen, and after a time the injectors get clogged up. or might be the burnt gas's. i'm just guessing here, there always has to be a reason.
John

[Lakes]

also it is true what i said about a guy i know that uses filtered cooking oil in his MB but as i also said he does not keep them long.

[bikejockey]

There's a couple of guys I work with who have successfully used old cooking oil from their local chippy to power their diesel Hiluxes - I kid you not!

I seem to remember an episode of Top Gear where Clarkson used cooking oil in a VW Golf diesel and it ran OK.

Not going to do that to my car when it turns up...

[CRM114]

Hello,

With regards to winter conditions the SAFF bio100 bowsers have a sign that states 'this product may contain up to 50% conventional diesel' or words to that effect (I don't remember exactly as I haven't seen one recently). I guess this is how they overcome the cold start problems.

As for the increased lubricity of bio, I understand that ultra low sulphur diesel is very hard on the injectors and pump as it is 'dryer' than the old fashioned high sulphur diesel. In fact Euro directives for ULS diesel are that a minimum (3% I think) bio is mandatory to overcome this shortcoming.

If there are any problems with bio it is that it is the natural enemy of rubber, and that all pipes and seals should be made of Vitton instead. The Vitton requirement is the same for ULS diesel as it is equally nasty to rubber. This is a goose and gander argument.

On a closing point, and I'm going to say no more on this as I see the usual FUD and self righteous commentary beginning to appear , No manufacturer will guarantee their car against fuel related failures. This goes for standard diesel as well as for anything else.

[TheBunyip]

Hi All,

Guess who has had a lot of fun looking into Bio-Fuels??

Did you guess?

 Oui, C'est moi!  

[EymaTeapot]

Waffle or not, That was a great summary,

Well done bunyip

[CRM114]

Thanks buniyp, great stuff.
(where IS that angel emoticon).

The 1.6 engine in the Mazda, is it the same as the Pug 307/Cit C4 1.6 HDI?

I noticed the turbo in both my cars has the same part number (Garrett variable).

world cars indeed

[bikejockey]

Thanks Bunyip - very good post.

[eye30]

Hi All,
I will try to refrain from lots of waffle this time. (Probably the only time.)

I have done it again. Seems I can not keep a promise to myself. I still waffle.

May be waffle but full of good points .

Thanks

[i30Dave]

As a manager for SAFF my opinions are biased. I've been selling biodiesel for 18 month
now and not had one complaint from a customer yet. We sell two types of diesel.
Biodiesel which is 100% bio unless the weather is really cold and then we mix regular diesel
with it. And Premium Diesel which is about 80% regular diesel with biodiesel added to it.

[EymaTeapot]

So Dave,

you own a petrol model but if you did own a deisel, Would you run it on biodeisel?

[i30Dave]

I would definately run it on Premium Diesel. And would seriously think
of running it on Biodiesel. Modern diesel vehicles should have no trouble running on it.
It's just some of the older vehicles that would trouble with seals etc.

[Lakes]

Bio Diesel, would have to be a good thing! just until Hyundai give the nod, i will stick to what i'm useing now.
but good information.
does it atract the same taxs?

[Lakes]

Dave, do customers say if they get better economy on bio diesel or the same or less economy? like you found runing on 98 octain or 91 octaine with your petrol model. thanks in advance.

[i30Dave]

I had a customer today tell me that he's getting better mileage
out of premium diesel then regular diesel

[Lakes]

Dave please excuse my ignorance m8  i did not know there was a premium diesel and a regular diesel. i've only bought from BP & Mobile, how do i know what is premium/ also do you know what is different about the two?
thanks M8

[Dazzler]

Hi Dave...

Nice to see you (so to speak)... )

Rgds,

Dazz

P.S. (Bunyip you're a legend ... more handy research .. If I was younger i'd probably say "go you good thing..." )

[i30Dave]

Only SAFF sells Premium diesel which is a 80/20 mix. It sells for
the same price as diesel.

[foxey]

Hmmm.. I filled up today with diesel from a discount station, and immediately noticed a marked degradation in fuel economy. I passed up one station that advertised Bio Diesel,  and pulled into the one that was selling a product called "Super Diesel" .. it was priced at $1.81/lr when all other stations ie.. Shell, Caltex etc were sellig for $1.88/lr. so it was about 0.7c/lr saving, and I thought it was the same stuff.. obviously not.. my fuel economy has gone from about 5.5l/100 to 6.5l/100+.. so is this actually "bio diesel" and they haven't said so, or is it just crappy diesel, what the hell is "Super Diesel" ..one thing is, I won't be getting it anymore..
In my Petrol engine I notice huge differences between fuel stations and especially when the discounts are on, my economy seems to get worse, but when I pay full price I seem to get good quality fuel, and if I use Shell V-Power then I can get upto 150kms extra per tank.. it seems that certain diesel stations are following this pattern, what are they doing to the fuel that we don't know about.. something is afoot ....

[Lakes]

Not Sure Foxy, but all the long distance Truckies i know say Don't buy cheap Diesel as it always costs more in the long run, i payed $1.83 at a Mobile servo run by Aussies, it's off the hwy so they try harder. How many Aussies do you see runing Servo's in Sydney now?I sometimes fill up at a big BP that is a truck stop and have a high turnover in Diesel, i have only ever used those two, as if i have trouble i have fuel receipts from only the two.
Also must be ok as i have never got less than about 5.2 /100k from new and got a best of 4.4 / 100k. i think different burn rate's effect economy, but i have never owned a diesel b4 so still learning diesel, just going from experience with petrol.
like Dave found he got better economy with 98 octain than 91 octain, as the 98 burns slower so if the compression ratio of the motor is high enough makes more power & Torque. but if compression was low would get better results from 91 octain. we also need to remember here in Australia and in Europe the octain is measured at the refinery in USA they measure the octain at the Pump, each time you pump fuel it looses some octain. thats why in USA they show 93 octain as premium but it's about same as our 98. when they dyno race motors all they want to know is MON ( Motor Octain Number )

[TheBunyip]

Hi All,

So not all Diesel fuels are equal, but what do we do about it. If money is no object and you have the time to shop around buy the best Premium grade from a major producer like Shell or BP being careful to source it from a filling station with a high turnover to ensure we are getting fresh fuel. By premium I mean something like BP Ultimate http://www.bp.com/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9024404&contentId=7045297 or Shell V-Power Diesel http://www.shell.co.uk/home/content/gbr/products_services/on_the_road/fuels/v_power_diesel_pkg/when and where it is available.

I know that is good advice . It is also pretty impractical too for most of us. So what do you do if you have to use a Discount supplier or have no choice where you can fill up.

In the UK we can obtain a fuel additive that gives a performance and economy boost that seems to compensate for the shortcomings of Discount or Supermarket Diesel as the locals tend to call it. The product in question is Millers Diesel Power Sport 4 http://www.millersoils.net/M3_cgi/millers2.cgi?product_id=176&exact_match=on&type=automotive&cart_id=which is obtainable all over the place  including Halfords. It is also available on ebay.co.uk and from several Internet retailers including this one. http://www.netparts.co.uk/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=19&products_id=82 I have included this one because they have a couple of customer reviews that you might find of interest.

Honest John a Dealer and a major Motoring Journalist who writes for one of the major UK Newspapers is a fan of the product. I have copied a letter and reply from one of his letter columns below. You can scroll down for the original here. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/main.jhtml?xml=/motoring/2007/02/24/mrjon24.xml

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/main.jhtml?xml=/motoring/2007/02/24/mrjon24.xml

Millers tale
    I suffered hesitation problems with my Ford Mondeo TDCi 130 diesel at about 1,800 to 2,200rpm. Rather than spend £85 to have my local Ford dealer plug it into his system and find no faults, I did as you suggested by paying £10 for some Millers diesel power additive and switching from a supermarket brand to Shell. The improvements in performance were immediate and the car is now smooth through its full rev range.
    F.J., Locks Heath

# Thanks for letting me know - more proof that extra pennies spent on better fuel save pounds in the long run. Readers using additives should be careful to use Millers DieselPower Plus for EU3 engines and Millers DieselPower Sport 4 for EU4 engines.

So what do I use in the UK. Well for me the price difference between Supermarket regular and Premium diesel was a turn off. So I needed convincing that the extra money was worth paying for the BP product. (I could not buy Shell's  V-Power Diesel with its preferred blend of GTL diesel in my locality)

A couple of full tanks of BPs Ultimate showed it to deliver a smoother ride at a slightly better consumption. I could not say more as the use was untypical for quite a large part of the use. Then I went back to the Supermarket stuff but added the Miller Sport 4 additive . For me that lift in Cetane numbers was enough. Ride at least as smooth as with the expensive BP offering and fuel consumption a slight improvement on the original additive free use. So I decided to stay with the Supermarket offering and add the Miller Sport additive.

Is there a similar product available in Ausrtralia?

OFF TOPIC
By the way did you know that Le Mans 24h was yet another Diesel fest this year. Audi 1st (again) using a Shell blend of Bio and GTL Diesel. Strategy beat the new boys from Peugeot with their new Diesel who still took 2nd and 3rd. Roll on Le Mans 2009 for yet more Diesel triumphs.

[Lakes]

Hey Bunyip, good info m8!
Here in Australia we are not that lucky to have a choice, like BP here have only one diesel, the ultimate is there 98 petrol, but they just have plain diesel written on there diesel pump. the bio diesel here in Sydney is mostly only sold at other than the major brands outlets. I think South Australia must have more choices as Dave said his outlet sell two types of diesel with different levels of bio content. no servo here in sydney that i have noticed label what % bio or what standard it meets, but it's a large city and must admit i do not check every servo we have.
I have been told about additives for diesel that can help economy but don't know much about them, i think the nature of the diesel design ( full air, and speed regulated by the amount of fuel injected ) i think this design would cause slight throttle lag, compare to petrol where the amount of air controls engine speed. but i rarely notice any lag when i drive my i30. but i took my V8 ute to work yesturday and it was instant GO every time i touched the throttle. but i still enjoy driving the i30 too.
Yes i knew diesel won Le Mans a few times, but have you ever read the class rules? they favor diesel, if it was equal the petrol would win. i have not seen any diesel dragsters try to take on a top fuel Nitro burning dragster to prove they make more all out HP or excellerate harder.
I used to race go karts when i was young, then raced super karts. i love all forms of motor sport, just saying  there is different ways of proving what can make the best power but if you allow a larger displacement for one but restrict the displacement for another is that fair?
cheers mate.