[johnee]

Thought I'd get some thoughts on the diesel v petrol decision. I currently drive around 20,000 km per year which is about half on the freeway and other main roads with speed limits of around 70 km/h or so. Other than the daily commute to work and a small amount of running around on the weekends i don't take my current runabout on extended highway trips etc.
Have test driven a diesel auto and it was nice, i am weighing up the extra expense in purchase price and servicing against the lower fuel economy and more refined drive.

From the low point in weekly fuel prices ie petrol and diesel prices per litre it would take 4-5 years for me to be in front with the diesel purchase. In Melbourne currently petrol prices are around the same or a couple of cents higher at the low point in the discounting  cycle. Diesel doesn't have the weekly up and down price changes that petrol has. Any thoughts appreciated.  

[Dazzler]

Welcome johnee. if you do some searching on here you will find there are some interesting debates on here from time to time about that very subject...

Here is my unbiased opinion...I would go the Diesel for the following reasons (preferably a manual as it is cheaper and much more fuel efficient than the CRDi Auto)

(a) The difference with the manual would not take 4-5 years to recoup with the mileage you are doing I estimate more like 3 years plus...

(b) According to the various dealer guides (eg Redbook) you would recoup at least half the extra cost of the diesel in resale/ trade-in allowance ..

(c) The Petrol i30 is an excellent drive (by all accounts) the diesel is sensational (particularly in the manual) feels like a small 6 cyl with the economy of a 3 Cyl..

(d) The service costs between the two versions is not that pronounced remembering amongst other things that you never have to buy spark plugs for the diesel..

I'm sure there are other reasons which escape me at the moment...

[2i30s]

and coming from a twin petrol owner,[meaning myself] well put dazz. 

[Brew69]

My suggestion would have been that if you can't afford the diesel don't test drive one but i see you already have. My mistake was to drive the diesel and then i had to have one. The petrol is a sensational car and great value for money. The diesel is, in my opinion worth the extra $ for the reasons mentioned by Dazzler.Either way you will end up with a great car.

Here's my take. The diesel engine has some character to it and makes for a more adventurous drive.

Forget the economics of it, it's the drive that's important, and anyway, you really get the diesel for free when you consider the price compared to the alternative cars that were on your short list (whatever they were ).

[2i30s]

i wanted to test drive a diesel when i first looked at the i30s but they didnt have one to test drive.i more than likely would have bought a crdi if the car was available to test drive,but its to late now. 

[accim]

I have a diesel also, it was bought partly because of the fuel economy, but mostly because it goes quite well as Dazz mentioned and without a struggle.. I guess it comes down to what you prefer.. The petrol engines go also quite well, but if you want more "dynamical" ride (or fully loaded, towing..) you'll have to drive them in higher rev's - of course, you can't compare 2.0 petrol with 1.6 diesel with 90-ps, nor 2.0 diesel with 1.4 petrol   But if you compare 2.0 petrol with 2.0 diesel, you will see, or have a feeling, the diesel goes better, even though they have almost the same "results" (0-100 acceleration and top speed) - just because of the torque. It's similar with 1.6 petrol/diesel.

I like petrol engines, don't get me wrong, especially turbo-charged petrol engines, but for me, at this moment, the diesel is the right choice. But it's not the right choice for everyone.. Some people just don't like diesels.. Also, it's not always the cheapest choice, even on long term.. The diesel engines, if not handled properly, could cause you more problems (cost) than petrol ones (non turbo).. Broken turbo or similar things at 150,000 kms isn't the best news for your wallet. That shouldn't happen if you drive normally, but if you drive like my friends brother, it probably will (he lives only 1 km away from the highway, and he doesn't accelerate gradually, but goes 160-180 km/h in few seconds after entering the highway, and drives like that for 20 min's - he's usually late for work, but even if he's not, it's the same )

[asathorny]

I have only ever driven the petrol and can confirm what the others say in this forum.... it's a dream to drive, sensational...!!!!!!!!!!!!

I cannot offer an opinion on the diesel but the guys around this neighbourhood are very knowledgeable and give good help and advice.

Having read this thread, I am kinda glad I didn't test drive the diesel 

A 

[johnee]

Thanks for your reply guys, most responses were what i expected. The extra outlay for the diesel will be no problem when the time comes. I have been trying to investigate the replaceable parts side of things for servicing the diesel. IE fuel filter and oil filter are the mains parts which seem to only be available at Hyundai. Hopefully Ryco etc. will bring their own filters onto the market. For the moment it looks like we have to pay full price for these items.

[Dazzler]

Hi again Johnee,

I'm just going with services every 15,000 (about 6 monthly in my case) The genuine Oil filter is about A$20 the fuel filter seems to vary a bit dealer to dealer (My first change is due shortly at the 60,000 service) If my local dealer still wants around A$130 I will see if I can get it from the big Melbourne dealer cheaper .. I'm sure someone got theirs for under A$100 ..

[Lorian]

My suggestion would have been that if you can't afford the diesel don't test drive one

You should send that to the readers digest.

[penak]

Thanks for your reply guys, most responses were what i expected. The extra outlay for the diesel will be no problem when the time comes. I have been trying to investigate the replaceable parts side of things for servicing the diesel. IE fuel filter and oil filter are the mains parts which seem to only be available at Hyundai. Hopefully Ryco etc. will bring their own filters onto the market. For the moment it looks like we have to pay full price for these items.

Both oil and fuel filter are bog standard general parts, and need replacement only once in 20K kilometers, the fuel filter actually not even that often.
Of course diesel culture may be somewhat lagging Europe, whre these parts are VERY common.

But even if you use "genuine" Hyundai parts (which they are not, just oem'd from somewhere...) the cost of those parts is insignificant in comparison to other costs of owning a car.

You should also remember that the diesel does not need timing belt replacement as it has chain timing drive (this may be true for petrol too nowadays).

But just test drive the diesel, and there is no return, whatever the financial reasoning may be

[bumpkin]

Hi there

I have only ever driven the petrol, but have to admit that I would seriously consider the diesel in the future.

[Dazzler]

As my final instalment in this discussion... I had not had much experience with Diesel (except in trucks) until I got my i30... From now on I won't buy anything else unless Hybrid or some other option gets a lot better and a lot cheaper...and several others on here have said much the same thing (haven't you Shambles.. )

[eye30]

I'm sure there are other reasons which escape me at the moment...

Yes. You have one

Better ride
Smoother take off
Less noise
No need to press gas pedal in heavy traffic as it will take off and increase speed
Has a sticker inside the fuel flap to say Diesel Only
Cheaper on service cost
No cam belt to change

Goes like $%^$%^$ off a shoval, so to say

[Duckman]

I have a 2.0L petrol, and it goes like a dream. It isn't a flat ride, has plenty of go, and is an amazing car.

I don't know how the diesel can simply be a "better drive" as they are the same car, minus the motor. The petrol is whisper quiet, given if you don't rev to 5000rpm. The car is amazing in traffic which I drive in a few hours a day, much easier than any other car (even automatics) I have driven.

Don't be swayed by these diesel fan-boys, the petrol model is amazing 

[Lorian]

The 2.0 petrol version is not available in the UK. I presume it was at some time.

Part of the joy of the CRDi is that most of the torque is available from 1500rpm. It's possible to drive quite quickly whilst changing up at only say 2200rpm through each gear. In top gear the speed limit here is reached at about 2200rpm.

[bumpkin]

The gearing in the 1.6 petrol requires that you "work" the engine, despite being VVT, you really feel the second cam coming in at about 3,500rpm which whisks her along better, below that and you can sometimes feel that acceleration is taking a bit too long.  The engine therefore falls a little short on the power/consumption battle, given that you need to be pushing it in order to get going sometimes, whilst watching your "econogauge" falling dramatically.  The flip side is that it is perfectly happy tootling about town at 30mph in 5th gear

From the comments on here and indeed reviews in the motoring press, the 1.6CRDi allows you to get frugal consumption with a much more "usable" rev range.

The first time I was on a 30 deg. mountain climb I was surprised when I put it into second gear and it started loosing speed, I had to ensure that revs were about 4500 in 1st before going into 2nd, again I believe from the comments on here that the CRDi just does it better.

Don't take this as a negative of the petrol, I still love the car to bits, it would just appear that the diesel is possibly a more lazy drive than the petrol in that you the driver don't have to do so much.

[Dazzler]

The flip side is that it is perfectly happy tootling about town at 30mph in 5th gear

 

The Diesel is not perfect (close) for example you can't do what Brian can do in his petrol.. anything much under 1500rpm in 4th or 5th in the diesel and there can be a disconcerting shudder.. Just have to be aware of this and change down earlier than that..(it does improve with age)

[Lorian]

Also if you let the revs drop too low (less than about 900rpm) the anti-stall programming will cause the car to slightly accelerate on it's own. This can be somewhat disconcerting in a high gear when you are going slow-ish in traffic until you get used to it.

[Nick Riffed]

Er..... Diesel. No need to torque any futher.

[steffanko]

Hi
My friend is driving Opel Astra 1.7cdti with 100bhp. Comparing to my petrol 1.4dohc with 109bhp...totally different stuff.
First of all, almost every modern diesel engine has turbo. With nothing to say more, turbo is very important when it comes to performances.

But somehow my heart beats some oder melody when I see left needle showing like 5000 or 6000 rpm... :-)

[Blue]

Here's my take...

If you can afford the extra outlay up front... DIESEL, DIESEL, DIESEL. 
Don't do any maths, don't think about it, just go buy one. 
The numbers will look after themselves both in economy and at resale. 

If you can't afford it up front... "settle" for a petrol.

Our diesel is nearly a year old now and I STILL smirk when I feel the big push in the back at every gear change.

[xlink_nz]

I'm on the brink of buying an i30, the preference was the CRDi until I discovered a few days ago something that Hyundai don't like to tell at least here in NZ and I also beleive in Australia

The CRDi does not have a diesel particulate filter in NZ and Aust. [I see quite a few threads on this] I was gobsmacked when I heard that Hyundai NZ and Aust choose not to order it with it. I beleive the record given in Oz was because they didn't need to meet any emission standards requiring it.

Shame on Hyundai for not having it in NZ and Aust. Clearly they don't really care about the environment [I'm no tree hugger] or more importantly peoples health. Diesel Particulates are know carcinogens.

The two other cars we are considering both have diesel particulate filters and in one case already meets the Euro5 emission standard

[accim]

I understand what you are saying, but you must know, many people (cars) have problems with those filters, the proper oil cost more (you MUST use C3 oil) and so on. I've been reading some other forums, where people are actually looking for cars that don't have that filter. Not just Hyundai cars. They do that because they tend to be "sensitive" and might cause quite some failures. I've also read, that short trips and low speeds aren't good for those filters. You should drive quite often above 140 kph so the filter would clean itself better than it usually does etc. Don't get me wrong, I think that filter is a great thing, but as every thing, it has some downsides.

I'm on the brink of buying an i30, the preference was the CRDi until I discovered a few days ago something that Hyundai don't like to tell at least here in NZ and I also beleive in Australia

The CRDi does not have a diesel particulate filter in NZ and Aust.

I'm sure it won't influence you nor is any real indicator of pollution at the level you are concerned with but the diesels without this final filter do not blow any visible smoke that would suggest truck-like pollution.

I'd be interested to see any data you might have that supports your concern WRT having or not having a DPF. I don't mean this to sound like a challenge... it's just that I've wondered about this point myself.

[Lorian]

A few points here. I'm not an expert on this, but read a lot about it becuase I was concerned to find I had ordered a car without a DPF (which is what I wanted at the time) and found I was getting one with a DPF.

The existing U engine used in europe already had a relatively clean motor, and meets Euro4 emission standards, and has a Diesel CAT (Hyundai call this a CPF).

Austrailian models do not yet have a DPF its true. I'm not sure if anyone proved if they have a diesel CAT. There are several old threads that discuss the issue, with, as I recall, some conflicting reports from owners. Of course if it does have a CAT then ACEA-C4 oil should be used too.

The U2 which has the CPF and the DPF has only been available in Europe since August. One presumes it will come to the other markets sometime, as the drivetrain on this model is cheaper and quicker to manufacture.

The DPF that Hyundai picked for the i30 (the same model also now being used in recent Ford Focus I think) uses a new generation aluminium titanate substrate, which does not need regeneration cycles and should not clog up like some previous DPF implementations, and has high ash loading capability At least thats what the manufacturers of the unit say. I posted the details in a thread soemwhere a few months ago. Hyundai just pipped Ford to be the early adopter of this technology I think.

The i30 DPF does not need any special fuel added for the DPF (like some peugeots) and it doesn't have a regeneration light to tell there is some special fuel-hungry regeneration going on, as presumably this never happens when driving. I believe however there is a menu option in the HY diagnostics for some kind of regeneration to be started, if needed at service. I'm not sure about this as I've not seen it with my own eyes.

HY uk site did allow you to compare particulate emissions of the versions with and without the DPF (compare 5spd/6spd) they may have removed the former's set of data now though, I haven't looked recently.

[xlink_nz]

Pip, Lorian and accim

Thank you for your replies, it is most helpful to hear others views

I have asked Hyundai NZ a] if they can source an i30 with DPF, b] whether there is a CAT /CDF, see Lorians reply] c] whether they intend to bring in the i30 CRDi soon similar to the UK spec

I'd be interested to see any data you might have that supports your concern WRT having or not having a DPF. I don't mean this to sound like a challenge... it's just that I've wondered about this point myself.

Yesterday I stuck my finger up the exhaust of two new CRDi's and removed my finger covered in black soot. It is this carcinoginic material which the DPF prevents. I wouldn't stick it in my mouth as it is known to cause numerous dieases including cancer so why should I be happy to drive with whilsting blowing out ?

As it stands the i30 in NZ and Oz will not meet Euro5 which I beleive does measure diesel particulate matter. It will be interesting to see what Hyundai say when they get back to me

Of note the i30 CRDi can only take 5% biodiesel [B5] in warranty unlike some other European vehicles which can take 20%, that said it was also good to hear the petrol i30 can take 10% bioethanol [E10] under warrenty so in some respects is greener than the CRDi

[Lorian]

Biodesel is not something of great interest to many UK motorists due to availability. The nearest place I could purchase it appears to be a 1 hour round trip from my home. There is a cleaner diesel available readily though (shell V.power) that is manufactured from gas rather than oil and that is supposed to produce lower levels of particulates. It has a 10% or so price premium however.

When you stuck your finger up the exhaust of those cars, keep in mind while they are shunted around at the docks and dealers the CAT (if fitted) won't have had time to heat up so you would expect to find deposits until they are run properly.

[Brew69]

It's hardly not a green car.
http://www.autoweb.com.au/cms/A_109550/title_Hyundai-i30-CRDi-Driving-Aussies-Into-A-Greener-Future/newsarticle.html