Yeah, I know... some of you know I'm close to qualifying but it depends on what is "older" and the closer I get to your measure of older, the older older becomes...

My point today for you to ponder is if you think older drivers and automatics are a bad combo?

Again a few will know that I detest autos as a pox on drivers but I'm serious here. If there are only two pedals is it not possible that pushing each pedal with the same foot can lead to confusion? Yes I know manual drivers generally use the same foot to push the same two pedals... but read on.

How often lately do you see a news item where some old guy has driven through a shop window, driven through a school crossing or similar because he pushed the wrong pedal?

I actually know of such a case.

My contention is that when the intention is to push the brake and the foot lands on the accelerator the instinct is not to reason why the car is not stopping but to simply push harder.

My theory is that if the 3rd pedal (the clutch of course) is involved that somehow it adds a degree of additional thought to the process (perhaps better controlling each foot by giving them both a job) and if nothing else gives an extra option to the driver to push the clutch in as it's also an instinctive way to remove the drive when panic hits.

Whatcha reckon?

[Keith]

I considered an Auto... just for a change really... soon got THAT idea outa my head once I drove one (not a Hy) In my humble opinion, Autos make sense on long winding freeways with a 5.0 or more V8 / V10 / V12 under the bonnet / hood whatever... they sound right, drive right and... well... are right!

[Surferdude]

An interesting theory Pip and one which makes some sense, esp. this bit

My contention is that when the intention is to push the brake and the foot lands on the accelerator the instinct is not to reason why the car is not stopping but to simply push harder.

My theory is that if the 3rd pedal (the clutch of course) is involved that somehow it adds a degree of additional thought to the process (perhaps better controlling each foot by giving them both a job) and if nothing else gives an extra option to the driver to push the clutch in as it's also an instinctive way to remove the drive when panic hits.


The second sentence above raises the suggestion that perhaps "older" people shouldn't be driving if they can't handle a manual shift.

Also agree about how the "older" keeps moving upward the older I get.

[Dazzler]

Present company accepted but some older drivers should definitely not be on the road whatever they are driving..

I'm thinkin' some 80+ drivers (My Dad is 88 and still seems to be a capable driver)

There are quite a few here in Tassie that seem to struggle to drive any quicker than about 40-50KPH and have to slow down to about 10KPH or less to negotiate a corner or a roundabout 

[Surferdude]

Present company accepted Or "excepted"?  :-\but some older drivers should definitely not be on the road whatever they are driving..

I'm thinkin' some 80+ drivers (My Dad is 88 and still seems to be a capable driver)

There are quite a few here in Tassie that seem to struggle to drive any quicker than about 40-50KPH and have to slow down to about 10KPH or less to negotiate a corner or a roundabout 

[Ozbrum]

I probably would be getting towards the catergory of 'Older' driver at least QBE insurance group seem to think so because they give me a 'Seniors' discount on my annual car insurance premium !

Some older drivers shouldn't be allowed on the roads I agree but by the same token nor should a lot of young cashed up bogan hoons that like to keep their local tyre dealer in business, and at the end of the day most of us like to think we're 'good drivers'.

 That's my two cents worth anyway from an 'Older' auto driver ...  

Cheers    

[Bel680]

I think "older" drivers need to prove they're ok to drive and by older i mean those in their late 70's and upwards. My Pop now has to take a test every year to prove he can still drive..

On the Auto coment, I drive one, mostly because I have a knee issue and pushing the clutch in and out in bad traffic makes it hard for me to walk...

[snowcherry]

My point today for you to ponder is if you think older drivers and automatics are a bad combo?

no

if a driver is easily confused he should just not be driving.

[Myowni30]

How often lately do you see a news item where some old guy has driven through a shop window, driven through a school crossing or similar because he pushed the wrong pedal?

I actually know of such a case.

My contention is that when the intention is to push the brake and the foot lands on the accelerator the instinct is not to reason why the car is not stopping but to simply push harder.

I've been in a car with a driver that did that. We did stop in time fortunately before we hit anything.

Now this is going to upset you. I use to race karts years ago, so nearly always left brake. Still do it even in my manual and only swap to right foot braking when coming to a halt. But you can also balance the car when cornering quickly doing it as well, which I tend to do. But I don't even give it thought these days, just drive like that because I always have done.

Oh, please don't try it. You will come to serious harm    I really am serious.

[Lakes]

Well, i am too busy trying to work out what the car in front, & the car each side of me is going to do. to worry about older drivers. but my Dad is 90 and drives as good as anyone, both in manuel or auto & rides a bike. digs holes climbs ladders walks over two story roofs. never had an accident drives every day. and complains like everyone about other drivers.
i have been driving a truck this week, so i have to watch what i'm doing and watch everyone else, plus we have a lot of people from all over the world useing our roads, and some do unpedictable things. had one guy go from the right lane ( three lane road ) across the three lanes and into a driveway without useing indicator, somehow he made it, but things like this happen all the time in Syd. i just stay calm get on with the job let the police & politicians work it all out.
how is it were you are?
PS Dazz i noticed you all Drive slow in Taz, like slower than posted speed limit, but was a few years back. I notice different area's in Syd they drive different

[Dazzler]

Hi John.. A lot do drive slowly here in Tassie but just as many drive faster than the speed limit.. I use the GPS so I can sit on the actual speed limit and I still get passed on our HIghways quite regularly...

In Sydney, Melbourne and Perth they seem to drive a bit crazy in the CIty (not like that here thankfully) 

Yeah, I know... some of you know I'm close to qualifying but it depends on what is "older" and the closer I get to your measure of older, the older older becomes...

My point today for you to ponder is if you think older drivers and automatics are a bad combo?

Again a few will know that I detest autos as a pox on drivers but I'm serious here. If there are only two pedals is it not possible that pushing each pedal with the same foot can lead to confusion? Yes I know manual drivers generally use the same foot to push the same two pedals... but read on.

How often lately do you see a news item where some old guy has driven through a shop window, driven through a school crossing or similar because he pushed the wrong pedal?

I actually know of such a case.

My contention is that when the intention is to push the brake and the foot lands on the accelerator the instinct is not to reason why the car is not stopping but to simply push harder.

My theory is that if the 3rd pedal (the clutch of course) is involved that somehow it adds a degree of additional thought to the process (perhaps better controlling each foot by giving them both a job) and if nothing else gives an extra option to the driver to push the clutch in as it's also an instinctive way to remove the drive when panic hits.

Whatcha reckon?

One hears the occassional news story about older drivers going through shop windows or other relatively minor accidents, but here is SA it is literally a daily occurrence to hear of the deaths, serious injury or causing deaths of others by young drivers often on P plates. I prefer the slower old driver to a young hoon on P plates in riced up Nissan Sylvia or Toyota supra or soarer whose ability to drive does not match their testosterone driven egos. The insurance companies know this and slug the young driver under 30 driver a lot more than a 70 year old. The type of transmission is irrelevant in what is a commercial business decision based upon acturial data. 

[eye30]

my Dad is 90 and drives as good as anyone, both in manuel or auto & rides a bike. digs holes climbs ladders walks over two story roofs. never had an accident drives every day. and complains like everyone about other drivers.

May be we should start a "Younger Driver" thread just for your dad   

[JeremyOfPerth]

This is a mjor whinge.

In Western Australia, and probably in all Australia, it is a criminal offense to drive a car if you have any long term medical condition and don't declare it.

Now these conditions include arthritis, high blood pressure, HIV/AIDS, anything that you have been taking medication for for an extended period ( e.g. 6 months or more )

In my case I am taking medicine for arthritis and eczema. Stupidly I went to the WA website (totally insecure, so all my medical details were visible to anyone). I entered my details expecting no further action and instead got a letter requiring me to pay for an extended examination by a doctor certifying I was safe to drive!

I did that, but because of paperwork delays at the doctor's The day after the response was due, some guy knocked on my door and demanded my license!

This system has been invented basically to exempt the WA Department of Transport from any liability for medical induced accidents. As it is a National Standard, it probably applies in all states.

My doctor got a form telling him that he was liable for any failure to report details, and liable for any subsequent accidents that may arise. The form also told him that his professional indemnity insurance premiums would already have been increased because of  the legislation.

In my view this totally sucks. Instead of relying on individuals to determine if they are safe to drive, they move the whole onus onto doctors,and ultimately onto us who pay any insurance premiums.

If I have a cold I decide whether or not to drive. Why on earth does the fact I have arthritis make me any more or less capable of deciding whether or not to drive?

This legislation makes probably 50% of over-50's in Western Australia criminals, as less than 10,000 people have registered so far.

It's not a public health issue. It's a 'move the blame' issue to allow Bureaucrats to carry-on knowing their ass is covered!

[JeremyOfPerth]

Further to my just last post. Herewith a hypothetical conversation in Western Australia.

Q. Allo allo allo. You seem to be driving a little out of the ordinary tonight sir.

A. Well officer, I was driving at 55km/h in a 60km/h zone!

Q. Precisely!

Q. May I see your license sir?

A. Sure - here it is.

Q. All in order sir. But may I ask if you are taking any medications?

A. Yes, I have a gammy leg and I take some arthritis medicine to help me walk better.

Q. Have you reported this to the Department of Transport?

A. Well, no, how does this affect my driving?

Q. Step out of the car NOW!

A. Eh?

Q. TASER! TASER!

Q. ZZZP ZZZP

A. Eurrgh!

Q. Central command, please arrange a pickup for a criminal driver Location ...

[asathorny]

This is a mjor whinge.

In Western Australia, and probably in all Australia, it is a criminal offense to drive a car if you have any long term medical condition and don't declare it.

Now these conditions include arthritis, high blood pressure, HIV/AIDS, anything that you have been taking medication for for an extended period ( e.g. 6 months or more )

In my case I am taking medicine for arthritis and eczema. Stupidly I went to the WA website (totally insecure, so all my medical details were visible to anyone). I entered my details expecting no further action and instead got a letter requiring me to pay for an extended examination by a doctor certifying I was safe to drive!

I did that, but because of paperwork delays at the doctor's The day after the response was due, some guy knocked on my door and demanded my license!

This system has been invented basically to exempt the WA Department of Transport from any liability for medical induced accidents. As it is a National Standard, it probably applies in all states.

My doctor got a form telling him that he was liable for any failure to report details, and liable for any subsequent accidents that may arise. The form also told him that his professional indemnity insurance premiums would already have been increased because of  the legislation.

In my view this totally sucks. Instead of relying on individuals to determine if they are safe to drive, they move the whole onus onto doctors,and ultimately onto us who pay any insurance premiums.

If I have a cold I decide whether or not to drive. Why on earth does the fact I have arthritis make me any more or less capable of deciding whether or not to drive?

This legislation makes probably 50% of over-50's in Western Australia criminals, as less than 10,000 people have registered so far.

It's not a public health issue. It's a 'move the blame' issue to allow Bureaucrats to carry-on knowing their ass is covered!

Hi Jeremy.

Does this include Viagra??????

asathorny

[JeremyOfPerth]

Hello asathorny

Viagra is reportable.

I've only included a short list. Other conditions like pregnancy, asthma, diabetes, gastric reflux are also reportable.

It's got nothing to do with the ailment. It's all about moving liability from the Licensing Authority onto doctors, and then essentially onto the insurance payer.

[eye30]

What a load of $%^^%$$£$%^&^*&(*((&^^%TGFRFRTYGHBNB

If this applied in the Uk the roads would be empty by 99.9%

[Dazzler]

Jeepers..I'm not going on that site  (thanks for the heads up)

As Lester says that is crazy ... 

[2i30s]

its to try and stop people driving around off their head on prescribed medication, like pain killers and antidepressants. the type that aren't detectable on a road side test. IMHO.

[snowcherry]

i would say your excema had mysteriously cleared and you no longer take medication for your athritis.  i would have never bothered reporting it to be honest.  :-\
i understand you thought you were doing the right thing, but i have always interpreted that as only reporting very extreme conditions where the condition or the medication truly does affect your ability to drive, such as say  epilepsy. low to no risk long term conditions where you know yourself that you can control it and you understand your limitations, such as arthritis, i don't believe should ever be reported.

[Myowni30]

See the goody goodies have been out then making policy. Sounds like common sense gone mad

[Surferdude]

I found this......

http://www.thoracicandsleep.com.au/sleep/sleep-and-other-disorders/sleep-and-driving#duties

Maybe not so bad.

It seems the onus is on the license holder and/or doctor to report

Excerpt
our duties as a driver license holder

As a Queensland driver holder, you are required to promptly tell the Department of Transport and Main Roads of any long-term or permanent medical condition that is likely to adversely affect your ability to drive safely.

You must tell the department as soon as a condition developed or if there will be a long-term increase to an existing condition. You cannot wait until you renew your license.

When applying for a Queensland driver license, you must tell the department of any medical condition that may adversely affect your ability to drive safely.

Pretty grey area but I reckon I could be making a good argument for not reporting, unless I was involved in an accident as a result of whatever unreported condition I might have.

[snowcherry]

I found this......

http://www.thoracicandsleep.com.au/sleep/sleep-and-other-disorders/sleep-and-driving#duties

Maybe not so bad.

It seems the onus is on the license holder and/or doctor to report

Excerpt
our duties as a driver license holder

As a Queensland driver holder, you are required to promptly tell the Department of Transport and Main Roads of any long-term or permanent medical condition that is likely to adversely affect your ability to drive safely.

You must tell the department as soon as a condition developed or if there will be a long-term increase to an existing condition. You cannot wait until you renew your license.

When applying for a Queensland driver license, you must tell the department of any medical condition that may adversely affect your ability to drive safely.

Pretty grey area but I reckon I could be making a good argument for not reporting, unless I was involved in an accident as a result of whatever unreported condition I might have.

yep exactly! as i mentioned in my previous post i've always interpreted reporting a medical condition as a condition that truly affects your ability to drive. its too much red tape otherwise., and i never bother.

[JeremyOfPerth]

I totally agree I was stupid to report.

I've done a bit of research and found that the National Standard has such gems to be reported as

Arthritis
High/low blood Pressure
Diabetes
Kidney disease
Hearing loss
Drinking alcohol ( not related to driving )
Pregnancy
Chronic mild depression
HIV/AIDS
Renal failure
Asthma
Sleep apnoea (snoring in your sleep)

I don't include the obvious ones such as elipesy and blindness, but you get the picture.

[Dazzler]

As Lester says ...that is 99.9% of the population off the road then..

[Shambles]

Wouldn't do me any good being over there with you guys as I have this addictive compulsion to breathing. And blinking. Occasionally. .

[2i30s]

 

[Surferdude]

I totally agree I was stupid to report.

I've done a bit of research and found that the National Standard has such gems to be reported as

Arthritis
High/low blood Pressure
Diabetes
Kidney disease
Hearing loss
Drinking alcohol ( not related to driving )
Pregnancy
Chronic mild depression
HIV/AIDS
Renal failure
Asthma
Sleep apnoea (snoring in your sleep)

I don't include the obvious ones such as elipesy and blindness, but you get the picture.

But only if they're likely to affect your driving. 

[2i30s]

I probably would be getting towards the catergory of 'Older' driver at least QBE insurance group seem to think so because they give me a 'Seniors' discount on my annual car insurance premium !

Some older drivers shouldn't be allowed on the roads I agree but by the same token nor should a lot of young cashed up bogan hoons that like to keep their local tyre dealer in business, and at the end of the day most of us like to think we're 'good drivers'.

 That's my two cents worth anyway from an 'Older' auto driver ...  

Cheers    

every one of us on this site will end being in the older driver category one day. most of us will end up being told eventually that its time to hand in the car keys.