[Dazzler]

We don't get pestered either (but I think it is because we have a choice of Aurora or Aurora) 

[rustynutz]

Ever since deregulation, which happened before we moved back from Sydney we've been pestered by door to door salesmen, offering great deals if we'd switch to origin Energy. They really are very pushy and annoying <.

So you could actually understand these ones? 

[Surferdude]

Ever since deregulation, which happened before we moved back from Sydney we've been pestered by door to door salesmen, offering great deals if we'd switch to origin Energy. They really are very pushy and annoying <.

So you could actually understand these ones? 

Not a word .... which was a giveaway in itself.
But they held up their ID cards which had "Origin Energy" on them, right in front of their shirts with the same logo on them.

[rustynutz]

Ever since deregulation, which happened before we moved back from Sydney we've been pestered by door to door salesmen, offering great deals if we'd switch to origin Energy. They really are very pushy and annoying <.

So you could actually understand these ones? 

Not a word .... which was a giveaway in itself.
But they held up their ID cards which had "Origin Energy" on them, right in front of their shirts with the same logo on them.

  

[Surferdude]

We got our electricity bill yesterday.
$18.03   
This time last year it was $440
So we're happy. Although I had calculated we'd get a little bit back so I analysed the account in detail. The explanation for the difference is in two parts.
Number One.............. There's a Supply Charge...........$23.81 plus GST.
And Number Two...........They don't pay GST to you for what you put back into the grid.

Of course I'll be querying that but I'm guessing that's just the way it is. And we are getting way above the State Gov't mandated credit.
Based on all that we are getting 16.1% ROI which is better than any other safe investment I can think of for $10,500. When I did my original sums I projected 17.5% as a likely scenario.
We used the aircon a bit more this year because we could  but it won't get used now till probably December so whilst the power production will drop a bit in Winter, it'll hopefully be more than offset by the lack of aircon use..

Oh. And sometime tomorrow, we'll pass the One Gigawatt mark in generation ( in a few days over 3 months.)

[Doggie 1]

Top result.
Our power bills in WA are going through the roof and I nearly fell off my thongs when I got the last one.
Still haven't got over it and I start therapy next week.

[Dazzler]

That's great Trev  If ours is halved I will be happy (ours is smaller system than yours and normal hot water) 

[Surferdude]

Here's a pic of the readout from our inverter today as it crossed the One Gigawatt point as mentioned above.



This was taken at about 11.30 am and as you can see it's already generated 6.387 kwh for the day and is currently producing 1.9 kwh in very light cloud.

[Dazzler]

Just found this Trev.. Can tell your inverter is fancier than ours (we only have a small readout that scrolls but prefer our grey coloured casing ) Trish would have had a fit if ours was that colour .. 

[Surferdude]

Just found this Trev.. Can tell your inverter is fancier than ours (we only have a small readout that scrolls but prefer our grey coloured casing ) Trish would have had a fit if ours was that colour .. 

It's not actually pink but a ddepish red colour.

[Dazzler]

No offence met but Trish has a thing about colour .. She was disappointed ours wasn't cream like our Meter box and trim.. But the Grey colour blends in ok.. I thought the SMA ones (which are supposed to be top quality, were generally brighly coloured)

[Surferdude]

No offence met but Trish has a thing about colour .. She was disappointed ours wasn't cream like our Meter box and trim.. But the Grey colour blends in ok.. I thought the SMA ones (which are supposed to be top quality, were generally brighly coloured)

Yeah they are - I've only ever seen them in the red colour ours is.
I've always rated performance over looks but I'm guessing someone in SMA decided to use this colour so anyone visiting a house with one fitted would notice it.
Some people put there's outside but ours is in the garage on the wall inside the meter box. I prefer it there - out of sight from the street. The people next door have a smaller system and their inverter is outside where I can read it from over our side fence - and compare output.

And smile.

[Dazzler]

Ours is on the wall next to our Meter Box not far from our front door (which is on the side of the house) 



So an Orange or Red One wouldn't have been a good thing.. (seemed to behave itself while we were away...) Our next bill in May will be interesting (hopefully) 

[Phil №❶]

@Dazz
@surferdude

Are you chaps keeping records of your solar output. I record mine weekly using my phone to remind me. I measure Total Kw generated and our weekly consumption of Std power, Off peak and Net grid return. I intend to slightly modify my system in about 12 months. The data I collect now, will form the baseline data (a bit small though, I admit) I think I can get 5%+ improvement. If you had 12 months of data & were interested, you could possibly gain as well

[Dazzler]

Hi Phil,

Since the weather has packed up I haven't been checking as often.. I missed a couple of weeks when we went away..

It has been a wet and windy Autumn after a long, dry sunny summer.

Some days lately we have only got 2.5 Kwh and yet another we got 7.5 kwh compared to 10Kwh-11.5 Kwh per day a couple of months ago.

We are due for our first "solar" power bill any day. I hope I am not disappointed 

[Surferdude]

@Dazz
@surferdude

Are you chaps keeping records of your solar output. I record mine weekly using my phone to remind me. I measure Total Kw generated and our weekly consumption of Std power, Off peak and Net grid return. I intend to slightly modify my system in about 12 months. The data I collect now, will form the baseline data (a bit small though, I admit) I think I can get 5%+ improvement. If you had 12 months of data & were interested, you could possibly gain as well

Check and record details weekly about Noon on Tuesdays ( which is the time it first went live).
I forget sometimes but it's easy enough to catch up the next week, or even do a fair adjustment if I do it at the end of the day. Ours records a progressive daily generation figure and a progressive output since installation.

Date                K/W/hrs
21/12/2011   0
27/12/2011   79.5
3/01/2012   162.5
10/01/2012   251.5
17/01/2012   311.1
24/01/2012   368.8
31/01/2002   412.9
7/02/2012   489
14/02/2012   573.7
21/02/2012   660.2
28/02/2012   709.5
6/03/2012   776
13/03/2012   854.7
20/03/2012   902.9
27/03/2012   957
3/04/2012   1039.7
10/04/2012   1114.4
17/04/2012   1181.5
24/04/2012   1245.9
1/05/2012   
8/05/2012   1349.2
15/05/2012   1429.1
22/05/2012   1484

There's a whole host of calculations hanging off the side of these readings in a spreadsheet.

Then there's this off my meter.

Date              Feed Back      Useage

14/02/2012   -175         234
21/02/2012   -243         277
28/02/2012   -270         337
6/03/2012   -320         394
13/03/2012   -379         438
20/03/2012   -403         501
27/03/2012   
5/04/2012   -514          618
10/04/2012   -557          651
17/04/2012   
24/04/2012   -654          743
1/05/2012   -722          827
8/05/2012   -783          867
15/05/2012   
22/05/2012   -825          917

And again, a raft of columns convert that imto $ generated and $ used.
ATM it means we're about $250 up.
ie. That means no paying out to AGL - would be about $600 - $700 by now, plus $250 rebate.
But that's offset by the Off Peak charge for the same period of $95.

 

By the way. What do you mean by changes to your system?

[Phil №❶]

Well, heat is a great killer of panel efficiency. It is possible to have heatsinks fitted to the rear of the panels & apparently they work, I'm not out to spend any more on my system though, so not going to do that. In summer I had a good look at most panel installations and IMO, all of them are fitted to a price. Due to roof space limitations, I only have about 40mm between the panels. They are mounted on 2 aluminium tracks approx 100mm from my tiled roof. Naturally, the surface of the panels is black, bad news in Summer and prone to solar heating. The mid section of the panel has little to no ventilation due to tracks bottom & top.

I propose to insert aluminium spacers onto the tracks & lift the panels. The heating of the panels should create a convective flow of air from bottom to top, unimpeded by the rails. Cost would be the spacers & longer bolts. I figure they will run cooler & make more juice. 

[Surferdude]

Well, heat is a great killer of panel efficiency. It is possible to have heatsinks fitted to the rear of the panels & apparently they work, I'm not out to spend any more on my system though, so not going to do that. In summer I had a good look at most panel installations and IMO, all of them are fitted to a price. Due to roof space limitations, I only have about 40mm between the panels. They are mounted on 2 aluminium tracks approx 100mm from my tiled roof. Naturally, the surface of the panels is black, bad news in Summer and prone to solar heating. The mid section of the panel has little to no ventilation due to tracks bottom & top.

I propose to insert aluminium spacers onto the tracks & lift the panels. The heating of the panels should create a convective flow of air from bottom to top, unimpeded by the rails. Cost would be the spacers & longer bolts. I figure they will run cooler & make more juice. 

There has been discussion about loss of efficiency above about 25C before. All my research and my electrical engineer son agree with you, however, the performance of my panels doesn't bear that out. They have consistently produced more power on 30+ days than on 25C days.
I like your idea of lifting the panels but as mine are generating to their maximum rated output I doubt there's a benefit in it for me.
And, do you mean you'll have your panels sitting on 4 spacers instead of on two rails which support them right across their width top and bottom? Will this affect their structural strength?

[Dazzler]

Heat probably not as much of an issue here in Tassie..

[Phil №❶]

No, the hollow spacers will fit between the panel with a bolt that captures the fixing thread contained in the rail so no compromise on strength.

Regarding efficiency, my small system is rated 1.5kw and hovers around 1.2 at the best sun angle, approx 13:00 hrs in summer. But, on a cold day where there is cloud, at 11:00 hrs if the sun peeps out the panels exceed the rating and go to 1.6, the inverter can take 2.2 so I'm happy about 1.6 when it happens. I'm not aware of any panels, yours included that don't perform exactly like this given these circumstances. This is what started me thinking and observing how bad the ventilation situation is in summer. If I/we could pick up 5% for a very small outlay, (that's 5% at summer sun and length of days) I think it's worth doing.

[Phil №❶]

Heat probably not as much of an issue here in Tassie..

Dazz, If I said put your hand on your panel and leave it there, even on a moderate day, it would be too hot for you. If yours are like mine there will be gains to be had, but I doubt that Trish would be too happy coz I suspect, they will appear more obtrusive. Doesn't worry me, I'm only concerned with function, it's obvious they're there, so if it's possible they'll be getting raised. 

[Dazzler]

Don't get zapped Phil  (I wish our bill would hurry up) That sounds a bit funny I guess 

[Surferdude]

I don't understand the ventilation issue. Our panels sit about 100mm above the roof. They are in two rows of 6 panels. Each panle is separated from its neighbours by a gap of probably 30 - 40mm. The rails they sit on )IMO) channel any airflow between the roof and the bottom of the panels. So I'm guessing your installation is similar to mine.
But I'll be interested to see how the conversion works. I understand what you're proposing now.
Anyway, we're generating enough to avoid paying for power so I'm reasonably happy with it the way it is.

[Phil №❶]

Yeah, 320v DC is the worst type of current to deal with. I'll isolate the system. I'm not anticipating undoing any wiring, just unfasten each one, lift & refasten, well that's the plan anyway. 

[Phil №❶]

I don't understand the ventilation issue. Our panels sit about 100mm above the roof. They are in two rows of 6 panels. Each panel is separated from its neighbours by a gap of probably 30 - 40mm. The rails they sit on )IMO) channel any airflow between the roof and the bottom of the panels. So I'm guessing your installation is similar to mine.

So your rails are mounted vertically, mine are horizontal.

[Surferdude]

I don't understand the ventilation issue. Our panels sit about 100mm above the roof. They are in two rows of 6 panels. Each panel is separated from its neighbours by a gap of probably 30 - 40mm. The rails they sit on )IMO) channel any airflow between the roof and the bottom of the panels. So I'm guessing your installation is similar to mine.

So your rails are mounted vertically, mine are horizontal.

No. Horizontal. But there's rarely not a reasonably brisk breeze blowing into them from one end. Our prevailing winds are SE or NE and they are mounted on the north facing roof line. When the SW blows the days are much cooler anyway.

[baroudeur]

interesting figures through this thread but obviously particular to Australia.

For U.K. residents this link

http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/Generate-your-own-energy/Solar-panels-PV/Solar-Energy-Calculator

provides an independent assessment of costs and returns on solar power.

I wouldn't break even for 23 years time by which time, if the devil's in the small print, my heating may well be free and  underground!

Strangely, every solar energy salesman tries to convince me I will make money (they use 'returns') within a few few years but fail to mention the installation costs  and maintenance bills further down the line.

[Phil №❶]

@baradeur

The installation cost is subsidised by the Australian federal government incentive scheme. Do you have anything similar There's no way I would have proceeded and the size of my system was largely funded by the government. Dazz & Surferdude, being more affluent than me, opted for larger producing systems therefore a greater percentage of the cost was borne by them.   

[Dazzler]

I managed to get our 2kw system for only A$3,100 after rebates (I could have paid more than twice that if I wanted the best German Inverter and someoe with a more expensive vehicle to install it...)

The system sould pay for itself well within the warranty period of the inverter (5 years) at the price we paid.. 

[Surferdude]

^^^
And we paid more than Dazz - $10,500. But that was for solar panels AND replacing the electric hot water with a solar hot water unit. And we went for a more expensive brand of panels, inverter and HW system.
But ours, too will have paid for itself in about 5 years.