[trev012]

Just had my third annual service and 1st MOT yesterday for my 1.6 petrol engine which went fine. All in all, I was happy with the price of £180.

However, before I put it in to the garage, I gave them a list of 3 faults/problems/concerns to look at. One of them was advising that my brakes had been seizing  and when driving away next day they were making a grating noise.  They freed up and greased said brakes and then came back with the shocker . It required to have new discs and pads at the rear. This after only 26880 miles. Now, I am no boy racer and am very light with my brake foot but find this to be extremely low milage to require new discs. My previous car [Diesel Vauxhall] needed new discs at 58500 miles. [Same driving conditions and same roads]

Furthermore, the price they are quoting is £318 for the rear only!

Tha car has only done 7500 since last service and the brakes were fine then. The garage said it must have been due to brake dust and winter conditions but this has been the mildest winter we've had for a few years. My issue is the low milage travelled and the fact they had to free and grease them would indicate a problem somewhere. The garage denied this.

Can anyone advise if this milage is about right for an i30 or/and is it just inferior meterials Hyundai use in comparison to other makes?

[Dazzler]

Trev, they don't use inferior materials in Hyundais ... and we have members on here that have got huge mileage out of the pads. (Replacement of the discs has been barely discussed on here (that is so rare)

So.. something is not right, I would be asking for a 2nd opinion 

[Doggie 1]

Brakes are seldom a problem.
I sold my 2009 diesel with over 136,000 kms and the brakes hadn't been touched and were still good.

[Shambles]

While we're busy making Trev feel better may I add that my brakes got 100% green light at my 95,000 mile service - pads and rotors

That said, the report on my RAV4 was along the same lines as reported - in that one of the front calipers must have been grabbing as the rotor was now below minimum thickness and it had taken the pads along with it.

Trev, you might just have to take the hit on it, though I'd do the rotor and pad replacement myself. Should be able to get a set of pads and disks for half what you've been quoted.

[trev012]

Hi Guys,

Many thanks for your replies and just exactly as I thought. I am taking the car to a small independent garage this afternoon to have them take a look.  Could the discs be damaged and need replacing because they had seized [Especially after washing the car] ?

Trying to get the franchased Hyundai garage to change their mind will be like getting blood out of a stone though 

[plasticphyte]

The seized pads are likely to have caused uneven wear on the pads themselves, and given you've heard a grinding noise, you could actually have a metal on metal contact, where the metal shoe the pad sits on has actually been grinding against the disc (as all the pad has worn off). Sometimes it is possible to machine the disc flat again, and simply replace pads & fix the faulty parts in the brake, in some instances, you have to replace the whole disc (could be a good opportunity for some slotted/vented discs ). Somewhat like Shambles has mentioned - calipers grabbing unevenly due to seized component, pad wears out in one spot, pretty soon the only thing grabbing the disc is bare metal.


If you haven't already had the repair done, I would ask them to show you the issue, or if the repair has already been done, I'd suggest for future brake work, have them show you the replaced pads and parts. I've found a lot of really good independent mechanics will have no problem doing this, and some will do it anyway.

[Surferdude]

If they've been grabbing then the calipers almost certainly need overhauling, else you'll be up for another set of pads/rotors before long.
Also, if you do decide to do them yourself, I'm pretty sure you need a special tool to wind the pistons back into the caliper so the new pads will fit. There has been some discussion on here about this.

[Just Rick]

trev something definately not right there,I have done well over that milage in both of ours now,did a wheel rotation on Cyril yesterday,while I was under there I checked everything over rotors where still clean and unmarked(other than what I would consider normal wear)pads still looked almost new,back ones especially,again something sounds off

[AlanHo]

I'm showing my ignorance here - but does the handbrake operate onto the rear disc.

Hence is there a possibility that the handbrake has not been releasing?

[Shambles]

I think the handbrake is the "shoe" type, operating within the wheel hub.

[trev012]

Well, I went to an independent garage this afternoon and after inspection was told the brakes are fine.  The front were only about 25% worn and the rears had at least another 25k still on them. I AM TOTALLY CONFUSED and reluctant to trust anybody now.

I then phoned my Hyundai garage that carried out the service and spoke with the service manager who told me the same thing that it has been caused by brake dust and winter conditions. When I mentioned that the car had been serviced since new by them and nothing untoward was raised at the 2nd service a year ago, and ONLY 7750 miles later, they sat up a bit.  Furthermore, I also told them I had been on various Hyundai websites [This in particular] and nobody had experienced the same problem at such a low mileage. The service manager then said the only thing they could/would do was to contact Hyundai Customer Services [Head Office] tomorrow and see if they could/would do anything as a goodwill gesture.

I won't hold my breath but will let you know how I get on tomorrow.

[Asterix]

I think the handbrake is the "shoe" type, operating within the wheel hub.

It is..

If they've been grabbing then the calipers almost certainly need overhauling, else you'll be up for another set of pads/rotors before long.
Also, if you do decide to do them yourself, I'm pretty sure you need a special tool to wind the pistons back into the caliper so the new pads will fit. There has been some discussion on here about this.

No special tool required. I changed the rear pads on mine last year, IIRC I just pressed the piston back.

[Surferdude]

If they've been grabbing then the calipers almost certainly need overhauling, else you'll be up for another set of pads/rotors before long.
Also, if you do decide to do them yourself, I'm pretty sure you need a special tool to wind the pistons back into the caliper so the new pads will fit. There has been some discussion on here about this.

No special tool required. I changed the rear pads on mine last year, IIRC I just pressed the piston back.

Thanks Asterisk. My memory must be playing tricks.

[beerman]

Well, I went to an independent garage this afternoon and after inspection was told the brakes are fine.  The front were only about 25% worn and the rears had at least another 25k still on them. I AM TOTALLY CONFUSED and reluctant to trust anybody now.

I then phoned my Hyundai garage that carried out the service and spoke with the service manager who told me the same thing that it has been caused by brake dust and winter conditions. When I mentioned that the car had been serviced since new by them and nothing untoward was raised at the 2nd service a year ago, and ONLY 7750 miles later, they sat up a bit.  Furthermore, I also told them I had been on various Hyundai websites [This in particular] and nobody had experienced the same problem at such a low mileage. The service manager then said the only thing they could/would do was to contact Hyundai Customer Services [Head Office] tomorrow and see if they could/would do anything as a goodwill gesture.

I won't hold my breath but will let you know how I get on tomorrow.

Personally when it comes to things like that, I generally trust the opinion of the bloke who can charge you money but doesn't. 

If your local auto club has inspections, it may be worth getting them to have a look to confirm if there is an issue, and  if there is give an expert opinion on how it occurred and if it is a warranty issue.

If they say it is a warranty issue, hit Hyundai up for the cost of the inspection...

[Dazzler]

 

[Just Rick]

If they've been grabbing then the calipers almost certainly need overhauling, else you'll be up for another set of pads/rotors before long.
Also, if you do decide to do them yourself, I'm pretty sure you need a special tool to wind the pistons back into the caliper so the new pads will fit. There has been some discussion on here about this.

No special tool required. I changed the rear pads on mine last year, IIRC I just pressed the piston back.

Thanks Asterisk. My memory must be playing tricks.

Surferdude there is a special tool to do that job,I have one but also as asterix says,you don't really need one if your switched on,that's why I own one 

[diablo]

I'm surprised that the Hyundai dealer isn't simply offering to replace the brakes under warranty, what excuse did they give for that eh? Brake pads are consumables, yes, but discs after so few miles, surely not. ??

Plus your independent garage saying they are okay?

Maybe try another Hyundai dealer if possible. I'll be interested to see how this turns out.

[Surferdude]

If they've been grabbing then the calipers almost certainly need overhauling, else you'll be up for another set of pads/rotors before long.
Also, if you do decide to do them yourself, I'm pretty sure you need a special tool to wind the pistons back into the caliper so the new pads will fit. There has been some discussion on here about this.

No special tool required. I changed the rear pads on mine last year, IIRC I just pressed the piston back.

Thanks Asterisk. My memory must be playing tricks.

Surferdude there is a special tool to do that job,I have one but also as asterix says,you don't really need one if your switched on,that's why I own one 

I haven't replaced any rear pads on an i30 yet but I had in my mind that they needed to be wound back in not pushed staight back. I read somewhere about an adapter for the special tool which is used on many cars. I've done them on cars like that but used a large, broad bladed screwdriver.

[Shambles]

...I read somewhere about an adapter for the special tool which is used on many cars...

Yep

https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=8891.msg104594#msg104594

[2i30s]

but the thread doesn't actually state you DO NEED a piston wind back tool it only shows you how too use one.    Asterix has answered our question about  needing one,or should i say NOT needing one. 

[trev012]

"I'm surprised that the Hyundai dealer isn't simply offering to replace the brakes under warranty, what excuse did they give for that eh? Brake pads are consumables, yes, but discs after so few miles, surely not. ??"

This is precisely my arguement. I could maybe have accepted it if it was just pads that were required but I agree the discs should not have gone at such a low mileage. All my dealer would say was "It was caused by brake dust" ???  What brake dust I said - I've only done 7800 miles since last service and they were ok then. Explain that Mr Hyundai.  As a side issue, I managed to get over 24k out of my front tyres and am still on the originals on the rear. Now if I had been driving like a boy racer to damage the brakes, surely this would have shown up on the front tyres and I would have had to replace them a long time ago?
 
When things like this happen, you tend to lose faith in the franchised garage and I'm afraid that's what's happened with me. I'll await Hyundai's response but if I don't get at least 50% off then I'll need to think my next move seriously.
 
If it can happen once, it can happen again .................   

[Phil №❶]

I've done some brake replacements in the past so I'll tell you what I did.

- Kmart in Oz used to sell a brake caliper tool which act like a reverse vice on the piston in the brake caliper, but they've reduced their auto section to the point of ridiculousness so don't bother trying to find one there.

- It is best to use a tool like this, as it applies pressure evenly on the piston and minimises the chances of air getting into the system. The piston can only be returned into the caliper by slightly opening the bleed valve and you can expect some brake fluid to dribble out as the piston is wound into the caliper. The bleed valve needs to be closed while pressure is applied to the piston otherwise air can enter and that is bad, creates spongy brakes.

- Note, the fluid level in the brake master cylinder naturally drops as the brake linings wear, always check this regularly.

Regarding this particular car, I wonder why there hasn't been some evidence of trouble. I would expect the rotors to be heat affected, burnt steel colour (blue). After a decent drive, place a hand on each wheel and feel for excessive heat, should never be anything more than slightly warm.

I can't understand why there is doubt about the remaining life of the pads. They have a new measurement of thickness and an old or replacement thickness, so your pads are either new or old, which is it.

One of our cars is at 60k kms and no mention of any pad replacements yet, so yours are definitely abnormal, if the dealer is correct.

[trev012]

Hi Phil,

"Regarding this particular car, I wonder why there hasn't been some evidence of trouble." Exactly my thoughts. I have asked the dealer why there has been no mention or advice at each of the 2 previous services and they can offer me nothing in return. If there had been a problem in the past, I'm sure if they had done their job properly it would have been picked up.  I SIMPLY DON'T UNDERSTAND IT.

Sadly, I am not mechanically minded like some of the posts from others on here so I'm afraid I am having to rely on the garage to resolve the issue.

[Phil №❶]

The disc pads when new are like the soles of your shoes, nice and thick and even, the pads should have probably about 8mm (guess) of brake material bonded to a steel backing plate, I'd be asking them to slip a wheel off and actually measure the remaining thickness.

Here is a pic of typical brake pads, note the steel backing plate and the thick smaller braking material, this is what wears away and at a set thickness, needs to be replaced.

[Surferdude]

A few points in response to the above excellent posts.

Brake dust CANNOT contribute to wear on the disc rotors. It also can't add to the wear on pads. Simply, because the brakes are out in the air stream, any brake dust immediately blows away. Old Drum brakes had this problem because the dust collected inside the drum and needed to be cleared out occasionally by removing the drum.

The best (IMHO) gauge for whether or not pads need replacing in once the pad thickness is less than that of the backing plate. Below this level, heat dissipation can be seriously affected, resulting in overheating brakes. which will get progressively worse as the pad material gets thinner.

All rotors carry a stamp which should show their minimum allowable thickness and this is measured using a micrometer or a good set of vernier calipers. Again, operating below this thickness contributes to unwanted heat buildup and probable brake fade, not to mention heat spots on the rotors which will cause a pulsating pedal.

Also, I shouold reiterate, if there has been excessive wear, it is most likely due to calipers binding (not releasing properly after you take your foot off the brake). However, this is something which would be much more prevalent in the front brakes rather than the rears which don't do a lot of hard work.

[Just Rick]

...I read somewhere about an adapter for the special tool which is used on many cars...

Yep

https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=8891.msg104594#msg104594

Yep that would be the tool

[Asterix]

A few points in response to the above excellent posts.

Brake dust CANNOT contribute to wear on the disc rotors. It also can't add to the wear on pads. Simply, because the brakes are out in the air stream, any brake dust immediately blows away. Old Drum brakes had this problem because the dust collected inside the drum and needed to be cleared out occasionally by removing the drum.

The best (IMHO) gauge for whether or not pads need replacing in once the pad thickness is less than that of the backing plate. Below this level, heat dissipation can be seriously affected, resulting in overheating brakes. which will get progressively worse as the pad material gets thinner.

All rotors carry a stamp which should show their minimum allowable thickness and this is measured using a micrometer or a good set of vernier calipers. Again, operating below this thickness contributes to unwanted heat buildup and probable brake fade, not to mention heat spots on the rotors which will cause a pulsating pedal.

Also, I shouold reiterate, if there has been excessive wear, it is most likely due to calipers binding (not releasing properly after you take your foot off the brake). However, this is something which would be much more prevalent in the front brakes rather than the rears which don't do a lot of hard work.

Trev, I agree with your post, except the last part.

As the rear brakes are used very little, that will actually cause especially the rear callipers, to get stock. It could be a symptom as Trev012 stated somewhere that he allways drives very gentle.
Allways braking gentle is very bad for rear brakes, when they are disc brakes.

When I worked at the dealer, we sometimes had to replace rear discs and pads because the owner allways used the brakes very gentle. The discs would rust and the callipers got stock which caused one or more pads to wear out very fast.

[Asterix]

I've done some brake replacements in the past so I'll tell you what I did.

- Kmart in Oz used to sell a brake caliper tool which act like a reverse vice on the piston in the brake caliper, but they've reduced their auto section to the point of ridiculousness so don't bother trying to find one there.

- It is best to use a tool like this, as it applies pressure evenly on the piston and minimises the chances of air getting into the system. The piston can only be returned into the caliper by slightly opening the bleed valve and you can expect some brake fluid to dribble out as the piston is wound into the caliper. The bleed valve needs to be closed while pressure is applied to the piston otherwise air can enter and that is bad, creates spongy brakes.

- Note, the fluid level in the brake master cylinder naturally drops as the brake linings wear, always check this regularly.

Regarding this particular car, I wonder why there hasn't been some evidence of trouble. I would expect the rotors to be heat affected, burnt steel colour (blue). After a decent drive, place a hand on each wheel and feel for excessive heat, should never be anything more than slightly warm.

I can't understand why there is doubt about the remaining life of the pads. They have a new measurement of thickness and an old or replacement thickness, so your pads are either new or old, which is it.

One of our cars is at 60k kms and no mention of any pad replacements yet, so yours are definitely abnormal, if the dealer is correct.

Phil, I agree with most of your post.

But, you don't need to open the airbleed screw to push/turn back the piston. I've never done that.

But I will admit that it will propably make the job easier, but not opening it, saves you the mess with the brake fluid. 

[Asterix]

but the thread doesn't actually state you DO NEED a piston wind back tool it only shows you how too use one.    Asterix has answered our question about  needing one,or should i say NOT needing one. 

As there's no handbrake mechanism build into the rear callipers like in many other cars, i think this is the reason for not needing to turn/wind the piston back on the i30.

You never need to wind it back in a front brake calliper.

I allways use a polygrip to press back the pistons.

[Phil №❶]

Phil, I agree with most of your post.

But, you don't need to open the airbleed screw to push/turn back the piston. I've never done that.

But I will admit that it will propably make the job easier, but not opening it, saves you the mess with the brake fluid. 

Asterix is quite correct, you don't need to open the bleed valve, however, if you don't the fluid level in the master cylinder will rise as the pistons are retracted, so check frequently to avoid an overflow. This can happen if the fluid has been topped up as the brakes have worn down. The fluid will rise for each piston that is retracted on each wheel. Brake fluid is extremely corrosive to paint, so avoid an overflow at all costs. I prefer to dribble some out on a rag at the caliper, it's not very much and not have to worry about overflows in the engine bay at all.

I have pushed pistons pack with many types of devices, so a special tool is certainly not required, but makes the job a lot easier if you have access to one.